Wildcat528
Active member
Could you please elaborate more? Would you say it helps in fat oxidation and feeling fuller quicker? That's what I've read. Any mental or emotional effects? Thanks for your help I really appreciate it!
Follidrone 2.0 worth the cash?
- Thread starter Wedgylx
- Start date
Could you please elaborate more? Would you say it helps in fat oxidation and feeling fuller quicker? That's what I've read. Any mental or emotional effects? Thanks for your help I really appreciate it!
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yah like everyone has been saying. Dont be afraid to eat. I know it sounds counterproductive to eat while cutting but youll be surprised.
At maintenance pretty much 100% of users see weight loss.
Can always start at maintenance and see how things go.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
I might bump up the calories a little. I usually stay 2200-2400 mon-fri, weekends I let myself cheat a bit but obviously will be tightening that up now that it's "crunch time".
What do folks think of me going 2600-2700 cals? For me being at the bodyfat percentage I am, I just think it makes sense to focus on that first. I feel like my body does everything more efficiently once I'm below 12-15%. Maybe because of the boost of natty test. These numbers are guesses too, so I could be a bit lower than that.
I mean, if this stuff is as good as they say I could cut now and always do a "lean bulk" in winter again.....
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
Should note I'm down about 15lb on the scale in the past year but have definitely added back some muscle also. Had time off due to injury, then was lazy about starting back up - once I cracked down though the muscle came back relatively quick
brundel
Board Sponsor
Epicatechin isnt a great fat burner. But its got great properties.
Follidrone 2.0 is much more than epicatechin though. Its got increased absorption for the epicatechin.
PLus 3 other strong active ingredients.
Not even a comparison.
brundel
Board Sponsor
I think just over maintenance cals and really hit the training and cardio hard. That should be enough to see the fat start to drop.
If not lower cals. BUt I think for sure start at maintenance or just over.
Ask guys who have used FD2 alot. MOst will attest to its ability to burn off fat even when your not trying to burn fat.
bigsmall
Banned
3 caps will work fine. I have used different dosing's and up to 7-8 caps for extended periods. 3 caps works very well....I find for re-comp, cutting and more caps seems to work better for bulking (probably due to the GDA properties of Folidrone). So you may want to add a 4th cap depending on your goal.
JYD
Active member
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Wildcat528
Active member
Thanks, I've read up on the literature but there's a difference between that and individual experiences and observations in my opinion. In many cases I find that a product doesn't live up to the company claims.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Wildcat528
Active member
LOL - pretty much my life story, bud
Hahaha for real though. Anything that does live up to the hype gets banned/made illegal. There are a few exceptions though.
mbonheur
Active member
Well, as said, for me it lives up to the claims. And for less than 20$ for 100g of this product, I don't even have to think about it.
I don't get any of water retention problems with it either. You asked me to be more precise, but I don't know what to tell you in more detail. I lean out on it, makes it easier to eat low calories, etc. and I look fuller. I actually tried it with and without it (ok, impossible to put myself in the exact same conditions) and it definitely adds value to my personal cut.
Btw. it is about to be banned, so there is that
Wildcat528
Active member
Well, as said, for me it lives up to the claims. And for less than 20$ for 100g of this product, I don't even have to think about it.
I don't get any of water retention problems with it either. You asked me to be more precise, but I don't know what to tell you in more detail. I lean out on it, makes it easier to eat low calories, etc. and I look fuller. I actually tried it with and without it (ok, impossible to put myself in the exact same conditions) and it definitely adds value to my personal cut.
Btw. it is about to be banned, so there is that
Thanks man I appreciate the insight! And if it's about to be banned it must work well!! lol
Masterzen
Member
Is it worth the cash ?
no
Overhype product, with really no proof to back up the claims, like almost all natural anabolics.
Not saying it doesnt help some people, hell atleast they are motivated to train harder and eat better, afterall they spent some nice cash on their supp, so they are much more motivated and disciplined.
no
Overhype product, with really no proof to back up the claims, like almost all natural anabolics.
Not saying it doesnt help some people, hell atleast they are motivated to train harder and eat better, afterall they spent some nice cash on their supp, so they are much more motivated and disciplined.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
Thanks for the info - have you tried it? Nothing I can do but hope you're wrong! lol
Masterzen
Member
No, didnt try folidrone 2.0, but tryed tons of other so called natural anabolic supps and ings.
In the end, after trying and researching,i faced the truth, there is no natrual anabolic that gives u even a small procentage of steroid/ph/sarm like gains, if even any.
But dont take my word for it, research, try.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
I've been around the block myself and have had my share of disappointments. Seems to have a lot of people who like it, so I figure why not. Like I said, I have some personal reasons why I've been Natty for a good 10 years - so just looking for something to run as I get ready for Aruba in September....can't hurt. The reviews and some before/after photos seem promising, I'll go into it positive and report back what I find in my log!
Wildcat528
Active member
Hoping for good things with the run! it seems a bit odd that a natty product is getting 5 star reviews everywhere I look, makes me suspicious lol. Especially as I haven't been able to find many scientific studies proving it works (I could have missed them). Regardless, I'll be following your log intently! Any idea when it'll go up?
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
I haven't gotten the shipping confirmation from Nutriverse yet, but I paid for priority so once it hits the mail I should have it within a couple of days. I don't see any reason why I wouldn't have it by mid-week next week.
Maybe I'll start the log this weekend just to get some basic stats up and let everyone know how I plan on taking it, what my nutrition/training will be like.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
I couldn't agree more, usually when something sounds "too good to be true", it is. The photos/reviews are positive - hey worst case I just bust my ass for a couple of months and get the results I've been getting! Muscles are growing, i'm getting stronger regardless of supplements - I just need to get serious about nutrition on weekends to speed up the fat loss.
With that being said, I'm very optimistic and will give it all I got!
jt75
Well-known member
How can someone who hasn't tried fd2 say its overhyped and not worth the cash?
So the many ppl on the main forum on here for fd2 enjoy wasting their money on something which just doesn't work?
I can tell you Ive been on fd2 since it launched with just 1 break of 8 weeks.
I started this on a caloric surplus and was very confused but excited. I was eating like crazy and waking up leaner and lighter!!
My muscles look much fuller and my missus and kids always comment how bigger they see me getting, but I'm still lighter. Muscle is obviously heavier than fat so I know for a fact that I'm continuing to lose fat and gain lean muscle.
I love this stuff for the extra edge it gives me, try it before you shoot your mouth off.
Masterzen
Member
There is no objectiv data to back it up.
Your opinion, and from others, myself are irelevant, they dont matter as there is no scientific proof to back up the claims.
Now ask urself why is that so.
Unless u bring up some facts, proven ones, and not your gut feelings and personal opinion, i will continue to claim its overhyped and doesnt do what it says, and i dont even have to try it to know it.
Nac
Well-known member
But youll just keep moving the goalposts, no?
Like, anyone presents "scientific proof", youll dismiss it cos the study was funded in part by the supp company.
Im not totally disagreeing with your basic sentiment, but your objection seems a little disingenuous.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I'd just be happy with at least *any* study in humans who swallowed something - to start. GTFOH with those "fish swimming downstream from a paper mill" papers Then we can look at the conflicts, which can be real - sound off if you're using Bio-Grow? But not always - that's why you need to go off of reputation and past performance. Stu Phillips receives money from various Dairy Organizations - I trust that he has never been "shady". The University of Tampa on the other hand...
I'm currently confused on if this thread is about TTA or FD2? They actually both have data saying they work in various ways in people (Not muscle building however, sorry. Data when swallowed by people, built muscle over and above placebo/control, verified by DXA etc... haven't seen any). And there are some health concerns - Liver for TTA IIRC, and 3 areas for Safflower Flower (find the Science Direct Meta Analysis on Flos Carthami((sp?)).
On the flip side TTA and the Seaweed, when swallowed by humans, has shown either enhanced fat loss or gain prevention. Can't deny it. Worth the money on the other hand, is subjective - I'm cheap. I'll diet an extra 2 weeks
Then we can look at the conflicts, which can be real - sound off if you're using Bio-Grow? But not always - that's why you need to go off of reputation and past performance. Stu Phillips receives money from various Dairy Organizations - I trust that he has never been "shady". The University of Tampa on the other hand...I'm currently confused on if this thread is about TTA or FD2? They actually both have data saying they work in various ways in people (Not muscle building however, sorry. Data when swallowed by people, built muscle over and above placebo/control, verified by DXA etc... haven't seen any). And there are some health concerns - Liver for TTA IIRC, and 3 areas for Safflower Flower (find the Science Direct Meta Analysis on Flos Carthami((sp?)).
On the flip side TTA and the Seaweed, when swallowed by humans, has shown either enhanced fat loss or gain prevention. Can't deny it. Worth the money on the other hand, is subjective - I'm cheap. I'll diet an extra 2 weeks
hazard12
Well-known member
I find it really funny all these people who hate on FD2 so much without having give it a shot. I sent 2 bottles to my brother who lives overseas and is all natty and he legit got pissed at me cause he thought I gave him some illegal product spiked with hormones and he wants to remain natty. His friends who do AAS even started teasing him. I had to talk to him and explain its all natural and it isnt spiked. He doesnt even know about the FD2 hype and had this reaction to it...
There might be some non responders but man...why talk **** with no experience when you can pay $40 or so and run a bottle yourself and then claim it didnt do anything for you? I mean unless you are scared it will have some effects and youll have to swallow your words or stop posting as much to save face....
There might be some non responders but man...why talk **** with no experience when you can pay $40 or so and run a bottle yourself and then claim it didnt do anything for you? I mean unless you are scared it will have some effects and youll have to swallow your words or stop posting as much to save face....
Masterzen
Member
Again, subjective.
But u must be subjectiv since u cant back up ur claims otherwise.
Like all other reviews:i feel i gained muscle, my wife said i look fuller, my friends said i look bigger, etc....
Read my first post, and u will understand, that even if u get the results its cuz u train harder and eat better.
Then again, everyone can buy with their money what they want, but until u bring some solid proof, until then i m right, and i can claim that the supp doesnt work, or atleast in the way its promoted.
So ye, in the end i m not suprised that ppl are PCTing with daa after ph/ass/sarm runs, cuz broscience is at it strongest in 2017
JDybya
Well-known member
Haters gonna hate.
I rarely feed into the vitriol....but my love of fd2 is too strong.
Another anecdote: my wife, who admittedly knows next to nothing about supplements or human physiology, said that I looked like I was taking steroids - two months into my second fd2 run. SAME TRAINING SAME DIET as I had for many months prior.
I obvious don't look like I'm on steroids. But I took that as one hell of a compliment. In the 15 years I've been with my wife, all of which I've been training, she's never said that too me before.
I was super skeptical. Really just tried it for the health benefits. But the endurance and body comp effects for me have been f'n UNDENIABLE.
I rarely feed into the vitriol....but my love of fd2 is too strong.
Another anecdote: my wife, who admittedly knows next to nothing about supplements or human physiology, said that I looked like I was taking steroids - two months into my second fd2 run. SAME TRAINING SAME DIET as I had for many months prior.
I obvious don't look like I'm on steroids. But I took that as one hell of a compliment. In the 15 years I've been with my wife, all of which I've been training, she's never said that too me before.
I was super skeptical. Really just tried it for the health benefits. But the endurance and body comp effects for me have been f'n UNDENIABLE.
bigsmall
Banned
Too bad you gave up trying when you did, BLR is changing the industry. Too bad you missed the boat.
bigsmall
Banned
I call them douche bags that should keep their mouth shut until they have tried it. The disease real...
hazard12
Well-known member
Again, subjective.
But u must be subjectiv since u cant back up ur claims otherwise.
Like all other reviews:i feel i gained muscle, my wife said i look fuller, my friends said i look bigger, etc....
Read my first post, and u will understand, that even if u get the results its cuz u train harder and eat better.
Then again, everyone can buy with their money what they want, but until u bring some solid proof, until then i m right, and i can claim that the supp doesnt work, or atleast in the way its promoted.
So ye, in the end i m not suprised that ppl are PCTing with daa after ph/ass/sarm runs, cuz broscience is at it strongest in 2017
You can certainly claim that the claims are not supported by data but you are being just as brosciency when you say that the supp "doesnt work". Science is not like law, things arent innocent (dont work) until proven guilty (do work), you can either claim ignorance and have 0 to say about something with any degree of certainty, or you run experiments to either credit or discredit a claim. You havent run or read any experiments to discredit FD2, yet you claim with apparent 100% certainty that it does not work. We are out here running small case studies on ourselves, that amounts to some (not conclusive) evidence and propose our claims based on it.
Also, idk what kind of "objective" data you wanna find. If you get into science (biochemist here) youll realize that most studies only look at a certain aspect of something with a specific method and based on the results, hazard to make bolder claims. Some of you will call this "objective" data but in fact its just as subjective (although more rigorous) as our case studies. If you look at many of the studies done on AAS that everyone regards as "objectively effective" youll notice there are a lot of flaws in them and end up being rather subjective. Hell, youll even find nonresponders to time-proven AAS. No amount of "objective" data is gonna make you respond to it and YOU SHOULD RIGHT!?
What im getting at is, either present some data proving it works or it doesnt or just shut up because your argument is based on "lack of evidence" and that never stopped a chemical from doing its job. Im sure back in the day ud be arguing that the earth is flat cause there was a lack of "objective" evidence :lol:
EDIT: You want to know whats one of the most important attributes of a good scientist? Always keeping your mind open to new discovery. Despite how certain you are about something, always keep an open mind because we as humans with our limited human brains and tools, can only know so much and that improves with time. Your attitude is also that of scientists who wield scientific claims as weapons which cannot be defeated...thats just wrong.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
The passion is exciting haha. Log will go up once I know when it will ship out to me. No shipping email still, I assume they are pretty backed up from the sale they are doing.....was hoping I'd get lucky and have it by Monday. Its only been a couple of days, I'm just excited lol.
mbonheur
Active member
Well, I took two bottles of FD2 and was not that impressed (some slight endurance gains, a little stronger and leaner), so there is that 
I also tried Epi Plex and the first version of FD.
And I find it funny that the rave reviews about FD2 are in particular in this forum. Much harder to find "like on steroids" claims on the interwebs otherwise.
Anyways, I am used to it. I tried M-test, Alphamax XT, etc. and it was not even close to what many people describe here. No biggie, but you have to take a lot of reviews with a pinch of salt.
And some ingredients work better for some individuals than others. I, for instance, am a believer in ecdysterone (RCE)/Turkesterone as a quality adaptogen, but many people don't share this impression. At the end of the day, you have to make up your mind for yourself.
I also tried Epi Plex and the first version of FD. And I find it funny that the rave reviews about FD2 are in particular in this forum. Much harder to find "like on steroids" claims on the interwebs otherwise.
Anyways, I am used to it. I tried M-test, Alphamax XT, etc. and it was not even close to what many people describe here. No biggie, but you have to take a lot of reviews with a pinch of salt.
And some ingredients work better for some individuals than others. I, for instance, am a believer in ecdysterone (RCE)/Turkesterone as a quality adaptogen, but many people don't share this impression. At the end of the day, you have to make up your mind for yourself.
mbonheur
Active member
On the flip side TTA and the Seaweed, when swallowed by humans, has shown either enhanced fat loss or gain prevention. Can't deny it. Worth the money on the other hand, is subjective - I'm cheap. I'll diet an extra 2 weeks
Are you not the guy that takes glycine, HMB, Betaine, etc. because it is so cheap even if it might not do a lot
TTA is also cheap
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
Well, I took two bottles of FD2 and was not that impressed (some slight endurance gains, a little stronger and leaner), so there is that
And I find it funny that the rave reviews about FD2 are in particular in this forum. Much harder to find "like on steroids" claims on the interwebs otherwise.
Anyways, I am used to it. I tried M-test, Alphamax XT, etc. and it was not even close to what many people describe here. No biggie, but you have to take a lot of reviews with a pinch of salt.
And some ingredients work better for some individuals than others. I, for instance, am a believer in ecdysterone (RCE)/Turkesterone as a quality adaptogen, but many people don't share this impression. At the end of the day, you have to make up your mind for yourself.
Fair statement. I've tried plenty myself that were raved about on forums and turned out to be.....less than I expected.
My expectations are not that I guess PH/AAS like results, but if I notice a little boost in strength/endurance/fat loss I'll be happy. I've got no skin in the game, so my review/log will be a fair one.
kisaj
Legend
It's amusing how up in arms some people get about what others spend their money on and how passionate they are about what really works or doesn't. It's such a waste of time and I wonder if they are as passionate about topics that actually matter.
To be blunt, anyone that only uses the weak studies that accompany most supplement ingredients is missing out and quite frankly, pretty naive. How many times to you see someone pointing to a study from 2006 that used 18 people to come up with a result, but will dismiss a hundred + people seeing different results just because they feel it is science. We learn more about these novel ingredients all the time and it is unfortunate that more time isn't spent on further studies, but there is no money in it. So we are usually left up to anecdotal evidence and personal experience to base a supplement's effectiveness.
I have no skin in the game, but have tried FD2 and found it to be a great product for endurance and recovery. For fitness purposes, that is gold. There are other ingredients and products what work just as well, so it isn't necessarily unique in that manner. However, it does as it says and it worked for me. So in the end, only you can decide if it is worth the money.
To be blunt, anyone that only uses the weak studies that accompany most supplement ingredients is missing out and quite frankly, pretty naive. How many times to you see someone pointing to a study from 2006 that used 18 people to come up with a result, but will dismiss a hundred + people seeing different results just because they feel it is science. We learn more about these novel ingredients all the time and it is unfortunate that more time isn't spent on further studies, but there is no money in it. So we are usually left up to anecdotal evidence and personal experience to base a supplement's effectiveness.
I have no skin in the game, but have tried FD2 and found it to be a great product for endurance and recovery. For fitness purposes, that is gold. There are other ingredients and products what work just as well, so it isn't necessarily unique in that manner. However, it does as it says and it worked for me. So in the end, only you can decide if it is worth the money.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
Free agent Wedgy will shoot you the straight truth once he gets to try it. I'm not some 18 year old kid new to the gym either, I've tried it all and won't be attributing any newbie gains to the product or letting placebo steer me anywhere. Its non sponsored, I spent my own hard-earned cash. Its a sample size of 1, but thats enough for me
If at the end of two bottles I'm willing to shell out another $100 (less if I can find a sale), then thats a good testament to the product. Time will tell.
Masterzen
Member
Its marketed as most potent natural anabolic,powerfull muscle gainer, myostatin inhibitor ( why relay on genetics)- Those are just some of the hilarious claims.
So ye there is that, and there is still 0 proof.
I m open minded, i tryed many of those natural anaboli supps, ings...
But now i do a research, and look into solid proof for those claims.
Keep the battle going, keep calling me with names, keep the broscience strong, but wont change my mind unless data, study, proof
So ye
there is that, and there is still 0 proof.I m open minded, i tryed many of those natural anaboli supps, ings...
But now i do a research, and look into solid proof for those claims.
Keep the battle going, keep calling me with names, keep the broscience strong, but wont change my mind unless data, study, proof
Wildcat528
Active member
Well, I took two bottles of FD2 and was not that impressed (some slight endurance gains, a little stronger and leaner), so there is that
And I find it funny that the rave reviews about FD2 are in particular in this forum. Much harder to find "like on steroids" claims on the interwebs otherwise.
Anyways, I am used to it. I tried M-test, Alphamax XT, etc. and it was not even close to what many people describe here. No biggie, but you have to take a lot of reviews with a pinch of salt.
And some ingredients work better for some individuals than others. I, for instance, am a believer in ecdysterone (RCE)/Turkesterone as a quality adaptogen, but many people don't share this impression. At the end of the day, you have to make up your mind for yourself.
100% this and I can see and value everyone's perspective (trait of being a scientist).When I started looking for a natural test booster the reviews here on MTEST and AlphamaxXT were abundant and profoundly positive. It almost seemed too good to be true but this forum was so adamant about them (look up any natural test thread here and 99% of these will be recommended). I purchased MTEST and had a hormonal label done about 5 weeks later. Not only did I not notice anything at all from the product, but my test levels were lower than previously (bottom but in normal range). Alphamax XT also resulted in absolutely nothing from test boosting claims. I love this forum dearly but I've been severely let down many many times after being persuaded by the folks here (lots of times by reps or sponsored logs). I think there are really only 2 products that have lived up to the claim for me. I don't even want to think about how much money I've wasted over the years on ineffective supplements. Regarding the necessity for scientific studies, I can see where Masterzen is coming from. A lot of our staple products that do work are in fact backed with significant scientific evidence. No one can dispute really the benefits of creatine, leucine, beta alanine, ashwagandha, etc. I admit that anecdotal evidence. I do fully believe though that in some cases, purely anecdotal evidence is in fact accurate and the highly valuable. For instance, I haven't been able to find many eria jarensis studies but I can definitely say that it does boost mood and motivation. I think it'd be nice if people here had an open mind and didn't have to be on one end of the extreme or the other. A supplement isn't bunk just because there aren't many or any studies on it. And a supplement isn't effective and life changing just because some members say it is. Regardless, this forum has been so phenomenal for me personally and I sincerely appreciate everyone's opinion.
Masterzen
Member
Well said, thank you for been honest !
P.S. i m not bashing mood,libido,recovery,etc claims, just the one with anabolic,lean body mass etc gains.
Masterzen
Member
You dont know what kind of privage messages i got lol
brundel
Board Sponsor
If you havnt tried something how can you comment with any opinion?
Its like saying alcohol doesnt get you drunk. Ive never tried it but I just think so.
Cmon dude.
Especially since your saying there is no proof it works and there are dozens of viable human studies to back up the claims (for each ingredient) and 150pages of reviews with hundreds of reports of it working as advertised.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Read through the Follidrone 2.0 FAQ. I posted quite a few with references. And these were only a handful of the many.
Ecklonia cava has had tens -20s of millions of dollars spent in research and its benefits have been proven more than most supplements you or anyone takes.
Here is a summary-
Epicatechin
Promotes AMPK
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
Antioxidant
These days everyone already knows about Epicatechin so I wont spend alot of time here. Amazing stuff. There is a solid dose of Epicatechin in here along with a strong absorption enhancement package. We use several ingredients that prevent metabolism and allow epicatechin to be fully absorbed which in turn increases its effects many times over. All the benefits you have come to love from epicatechin, Muscle mass, strength, endurance, pump but MUCH stronger.
Ecklonia Cava: EC
Muscle mass
Fat loss
Promotes AMPK
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
ACE inhibitor
Antioxidant
Vasodilator
Cardio protective
Increased brain function
Reduced cholesterol
GLUT4 Expression
This is one of the most well studied seaweeds on earth. Millions of dollars has been spent looking at this stuff for all kinds of purposes. Its exceptional with regards to health benefits and safety. Its also exceptional with regards to its benefits to us as muscle gain and fat loss enthusiasts. Like Epicatechin EC is a strong follistatin booster and as such myostatin inhibitor. In addition to its ability to reduce myostatin it is also a very solid ACE inhibitor. Ace inhibitors are interesting to say the very least. Ace inhibitors increase insulin sensitivity and glucose uptake into muscles. Lower ACE equates to lower overall bodyfat levels, increased fat metabolism in the liver and the ability to process sugars much faster. In addition increased cell surface GLUT4 increases nutrient shuttling into muscle tissue. It has been suggested that ACE inhibitor-induced positive effects may also be mediated by direct action on the skeletal muscle. In particular, two recently published observational studies documented that among hypertensive subjects free of CHF, treatment with ACE inhibitors was associated with better performance and muscular outcomes and genetic studies also support the hypothesis that the ACE system may be involved in physical performance and skeletal muscle function. Effects on the skeletal muscle are probably mediated by mechanical, metabolic, anti-inflammatory, nutritional, neurological and angiogenetic actions. Individuals with the II genotype of the ACE gene have greater endurance and greater skeletal muscle trainability in some studies. Hypertensive patients taking ACE inhibitors have greater cross-sectional muscle mass and a slower decline in walking speed than those taking other antihypertensives in epidemiological studies. ACE inhibitors are also known to improve endothelial function, muscle glucose uptake, increase potassium levels and modulate other hormonal systems including IGF-1, all of which could contribute to improved skeletal muscle function. Finally, ACE inhibitors could of course be mediating a direct effect on skeletal muscle structure and function; they are known to have trophic effects on myocardial tissue. Finally ACE inhibitors help us with fat loss independent of food intake. This appears to be due to a high energy expenditure related to increased metabolism of fatty acids in the liver, with the additional effect of increased glucose tolerance.
EC is a strong vasodilator and helps restore and increase endothelial function. EC can regenerate the vascular endothelium, the cells critical to the inner lining of the blood vessels. They generate the chemical nitric oxide (NO), which keeps the arterial walls relaxed and dilated. After a six-week study of EC, flow mediated dilation and NO mediated dilation increased by 60% and 50%. In another study, coronary artery disease patients were given EC for six weeks. Blood flow controlled by NO increased 50-60%. These results confirm that EC can rejuvenate damaged endothelial cells to produce NO. This effect was further confirmed in a study on erectile dysfunction (see below).
Scientists studied 31 men with erectile dysfunction (ED) for over six months. They compared eight weeks of EC use to Viagra. They looked at orgasmic function (OF), intercourse satisfaction (IS), overall satisfaction (OS), and erectile function (EF). Over those eight weeks, ECE scored 87%, 74%, 62%, and 66%. Viagra scored 27%, 44%, 39%, and 66%. No side effects were reported with EC:
DGAT Inhibition
Diacylglycerol acetyl transferase (DGAT) is the enzyme involved in the final step of triglyceride synthesis. Triglycerides are circulating fat bodies that ultimately wind up in the fat cells, and are almost always elevated in diabetes. They also have emerged as a major risk factor in vascular disease.
It was found that EC compounds inhibited DGAT more than 50%. In genetically caused obese laboratory rats, EC reduced body fat and increased physical activity. In another study, EC caused leanness and fat-resistance in animals given a high fat diet.
ECE Beverage: 2-Week Clinical Trial
In a human study, 141 young adults were given a beverage containing ECE at 200 mg daily. In two weeks their average weight dropped nearly 2.5 pounds, muscle mass increased by nearly 2.5 pounds, and body fat dropped by 4 pounds, or 7.48%. EC stimulates the body to burn fat by increasing muscle mass.
Frankly I dont know of too many things that have the potential of Ecklonia cava. Great for building muscle and losing fat, Vasodilation and a host of health benefits round this ingredient out and make it in my opinion the star of the show and I believe an even stronger ingredient than epicatechin.
Flos carth
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
antiinflammitory
antioxidant
Increased NO production
Flos Carthami extract was initially a target for me because of its ability to increase Follistatin (see Fig 1.). Increased Follistatin, decreased Myostatin and activin A lead to increased muscle building potential. Flos Carthami has a strong antioxidant effect and is highly anti inflammatory. more than one tester mentioned a reduction in overall muscular pain perception acutely post training and during the DOMS stage of recovery. Several studies indicate that FC improves endothelial function and NO production similar to EC and (-)-E extract.
ABSORPTION PACKAGE=
Quercetin/niacin co crystal
Vasodilator, Increased VO2 Max,
Absorption
Quercetin niacin co_crystals are a whole new ingredient. Everyone knows about quercetin and niacin but quercetin has very poor oral bioavailability and niacin causes severe flushing at decent doses. Bonding the molecules together increases the absorption of Quercetin many times over and prevents the Niacin flush. Quercetin has been mentioned for everything from endurance and an increase in VO2 Max to fat loss to its strong antioxidant effect, however, for our purpose we added it specifically for its ability to increase the absorption of our other ingredients. Specifically, epicatechin. Its as just an added bonus we get all the benefits of both quercetin and niacin which includes vasodilation and improved cholesterol levels making this a star ingredient we plan on adding in high amounts in our coming PRE WORKOUT product
Absorption=
Both of these tested exceptionally well and have strong scientific evidence supporting their use to increase the absporption of epicatechin.
Octyl gallate
Citrus bioflavaniods
UPDATE- Naringenin is one of the major bioflavanoids in FD2
check out how it can benefit us for more than just absorption!
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REFS:
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http://www.fiercebiotechresearch.com...oss/2008-04-29
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ucheoma
Active member
Youre not the only one who's learnt the hard way my friend! I've been calling out test boosters forever. Now i just roll my eyes when the next great test booster gets rolled out we're on a supp board sponsored by supp companies after all! but I love the real knowledge, honesty and experience of a fair few posters so you learn to sort the wheat from the chaff. There will always be no lack of green horns that get suckered in but time, experience and lighter wallets make most people (not all) wiser. And its not just test boosters, the hype and claims surrounding some of the natty 'anabolic' products is simply breath-taking. For the avoidance of doubt ive taken all the supps mentioned in this thread