This^
Again, there are different options for different people, but you also have to consider the type of people who may be interested in taking a nootropic (student, businessperson, etc). Many of these people rely on energy drinks/shots or store-bought coffee, which can all be VERY expensive. Giving them a nootropic product that can replace their expensive caffeine source at a better price, while also providing far superior results (with effective doses of several nootropic ingredients) is a good thing, and the amount of caffeine isn't so high as to be prohibitive to having more caffeine/coffee during the day, either at another time or at the same time. Remember, studies have shown that 3-5 cups of coffee can be a "good" thing, and that comes out to a maximum of 350-600mg, depending on the caffeine content of your coffee, with the range being about 70-120mg per cup. The inclusion of a decent dose of caffeine can be big for someone looking to be able to take a nootropic without breaking the bank or allocating even more money to their energy/supplement budget; it seems possible that many people would rather replace one serving of their caffeine (energy drink, coffee, etc) than add another thing/supplement (a nootropic product) to it; saving money AND getting better results/effects instead of spending more money to get better results. There’s also a convenience factor here that many people, especially people who aren’t as involved or used to taking a plethora of supplements, in being able to take 1-2 pills for their energy, focus, cognitive, etc needs. It’s very easy to keep a few pills with you for the day and take them whenever you feel you need them, whether it’s when you’re on the go, at work, in class, etc. Also, it seems that people are enjoying it even at one capsule, which is only just a bit more than 1 cup of coffee, and I think I recall some loggers taking it with coffee and/or other things that contain caffeine.
I just don't see how the 25mg difference in caffeine per cap is the issue between the two products for people. Lol nothing against Nootrol or anything of course, I will give it it's own chance once I'm finished with Nootropimax. It has a couple things I have never tried before that I'm looking forward to giving a shot.
No, I'm trying to allow people here to see it from a perspective that we may not think of. At the end of the day, it is a well-formulated supplement. It is NOT designed to be merely a replacement for an energy drink, although it is certainly a much better option. It is in no way just a ton of caffeine and stimulants with a dusting of "nootropics" like many other products; it is profile with research supported ingredients and doses, ingredients and doses shown to be effective in healthy humans, and works via many MoAs, both acutely and with continuous use, and many ingredients have demonstrated synergy with each other, including the caffeine. This is not pandering to the masses, or watering anything down by any means. Hell, it has less caffeine and stimulants than many other nootropics. Are you complaining about pre-workouts that have caffeine since coffee is "better?" Not everyone wants to take, and spend more money on, more than one thing at a time for one purpose.
That certainly is true for me...haha!
It isn't 300mg of caffeine, since dicaffeine malate isn't 100% caffeine. Also, some people enjoy splitting the daily serving into two doses (about 130mg caffeine per pill), or even only taking one pill a day.
Going out on a limb here and guessing the BLR pre workout has 100mg caffeine per serving or less?
I think he's referring to BLR Incinderine, which I was able to find on your website; I'm not sure if it's not in your lineup anymore though. I also think there is some confusion in this thread over subjective terminology and semantics. Also, if you see my previous posts addressing the topic, you'll see that it appears that reasonable doses of caffeine (3-5 cups of coffee worth of caffeine is a number that often comes up, or up to 350-600mg, depending on the caffeine content of the cup of coffee) may actually preserve cognition, and I also mentioned the MoAs that can be responsible for these protective benefits of caffeine. The ~260mg of caffeine in NootropiMax is NOT a "high dose" of caffeine in this context, and it doesn't really even leave the "reasonable" or "potentially beneficial" range even if you have another cup or two of coffee in the same day. And really, you're going to compare caffeine with meth? That's the epitome of hyperbole. Even comparing caffeine to Modafinil is not really a fair comparison, as there is an absolute dearth of information on the safety and effects of long term Modafinil (or any finil) use compared to our knowledge of the long-term effects of caffeine. Also, while there is a decent amount of caffeine in NootropiMax, I do not think it is accurate or fair to say it is something that is "reliant" on stimulants, as even if you take out the caffeine, it is still an effective formula that includes effective doses of several well-researched nootropics that have actually been found to work in healthy, non-elderly individuals (which is one problem I see with a lot of nootropics; extrapolating the benefits in disease states or cognitive impairment to healthy populations). At the end of the day, I agree with you that we just have different approaches to formulation, and that's only good for the consumer, who has more quality options. We are all entitled to our opinions, and I respect that completely, but I just don't see the argument to be made that moderate caffeine consumption (equivalent to 3-5 cups of coffee) is something that is detrimental to long-term cognition. Abusing caffeine, we see some people having upwards of a gram a day, sure, that's not the best idea, but even 400-500mg/day wouldn't really fall into this range for most healthy individuals.
I understand your reasoning for not including caffeine in your nootropic, but, as I've already said multiple times, I do not believe that moderate daily caffeine consumption is detrimental to long term cognition, and provided some studies/papers, as well as MoAs, to support my assertions. Also, you really compared caffeine to amphetamines and a relatively new synthetic drug? As I said before, regular caffeine consumption, within reason (see the 3-5 cups of coffee equivalent), seems to not only not be detrimental to long term cognition, but may even benefit or preserve cognition over time.
I still assert that you are incorrect in your claims that moderate daily caffeine consumption is detrimental to long term cognition. I understand your reasoning for not including caffeine in the formula, and some people want to keep their caffeine intake lower and/or take time off using caffeine, but I do not believe that one of these potential reasons is preserving long term cognition. Yes, different strokes for different folks, but let's not ignore the science; you can justify your decision in other ways. I also do explicitly state moderate/responsible caffeine consumption, not upwards of a gram that some people are taking every day. 400mg, sometimes up to 500mg, per day is what I try to limit myself to.
