Ask Me Anything AAS/PH/PCT Related

[Caldwood]

Just finished my PH cycle. Getting kinda confused on my PCT. Its liquinol, 30ml 20mg/ml. dropper goes up to 1ml. I take 2ml right? ugh, lol.

No you take 1 ml for 20mg of compound. I'm guessing your pct is cookie cutter, 20/20/10/10? If so just dose 1ml daily for the first two weeks then .5 ml for the last two weeks. Though you will need to feel it out in my experience liquid serms such as these are slightly under dosed. So pay attention to that.

 

[yates84]

No you take 1 ml for 20mg of compound. I'm guessing your pct is cookie cutter, 20/20/10/10? If so just dose 1ml daily for the first two weeks then .5 ml for the last two weeks. Though you will need to feel it out in my experience liquid serms such as these are slightly under dosed. So pay attention to that.

Why would a company underdose something that costs less than 1$ a gram?

 

[Caldwood]

Why would a company underdose something that costs less than 1$ a gram?

I don't believe it was intentional, just had an experience where I had an under dosed or bad batch product. Replaced with caps and issue went away. Order was replaced and refunded after the fact. Not saying that liquid serms aren't any good just saying be ready with caps if possible.

 

[ozzie1987]

I've ran superdrol a few times now for 4 weeks at 20mg, good gains but harsh. Thoughts on running it for 6weeks at 10mg?

 

[yates84]

I've ran superdrol a few times now for 4 weeks at 20mg, good gains but harsh. Thoughts on running it for 6weeks at 10mg?

Ever tried injectable sd? Much easier on side effects but still has all the gains

 

[zincd]

Var solo should be perfect! If you really feel the need to add something else in then 4 andro would be my choice.

Yates may u suggest me how much dosage of sup3r 4 to use with 50mg/var ed for 6 weeks?

Thanks

 

[yates84]

Yates may u suggest me how much dosage of sup3r 4 to use with 50mg/var ed for 6 weeks?

Thanks

200 to 300mg range should be perfect.

 

[Dholmes90]

Hey everyone, I'm new here! A few months from now I'll be bulking up so I'll be running 1 Andro and 4 Andro together (Andro The Giant and Super Mandro). As for PCT, I was advised to use a product called K1ngs Blood by Olympus Labs. Does anyone have experience in using this? I asked if I should run a SERM as well and I was told it wasn't needed for this particular stack.

 

[yates84]

Hey everyone, I'm new here! A few months from now I'll be bulking up so I'll be running 1 Andro and 4 Andro together (Andro The Giant and Super Mandro). As for PCT, I was advised to use a product called K1ngs Blood by Olympus Labs. Does anyone have experience in using this? I asked if I should run a SERM as well and I was told it wasn't needed for this particular stack.

Kingsblood is good but you also need to use a serm.

 

[Caldwood]

Hey everyone, I'm new here! A few months from now I'll be bulking up so I'll be running 1 Andro and 4 Andro together (Andro The Giant and Super Mandro). As for PCT, I was advised to use a product called K1ngs Blood by Olympus Labs. Does anyone have experience in using this? I asked if I should run a SERM as well and I was told it wasn't needed for this particular stack.

Get yourself some nolva mang.

 

[Nac]

Hmm yeah, theres a difference between "a SERM isnt needed based on bloods" and "a SERM isnt needed we assume".

Without bloods its better to assume in favour of using a SERM.

 

[Dholmes90]

Thanks guys! Since this is all new to me, how would I go about getting Nolva? There's also a SERM called Rebirth by Black Lion Research that looks interesting. Not sure if it's as good as Nolva or clomid though.

 

[Caldwood]

Thanks guys! Since this is all new to me, how would I go about getting Nolva? There's also a SERM called Rebirth by Black Lion Research that looks interesting. Not sure if it's as good as Nolva or clomid though.

Never heard of rebirth. But all I know is I run clomid or nolva. Period except the occasional armistane depending

 

[Tank999]

Oh wise one -
1) Would it make sense to add epi andro to a lgd/dermatr3st stack?
2) Would it make sense to start the lgd 2 weeks before the dermatr3st since it took 2 weeks till it kicked in last time?

3) How long should I wait to go on, if I did a solid 8 week pct after an 8 week 1andro/epi andro cycle, and bloods are solid?

Thanks

 

[Dholmes90]

Never heard of rebirth. But all I know is I run clomid or nolva. Period except the occasional armistane depending

Yeah I was told to get an AI/estrogen blocker called Estro Strike 2.0 By Assault Labs or Eradicate by Blackstone labs and run it while on the cycle to reduce/prevent any estrogen related side effects. I will see where I can find nolva or clomid.. Thanks man!

 

[Nac]

Oh wise one -
1) Would it make sense to add epi andro to a lgd/dermatr3st stack?
2) Would it make sense to start the lgd 2 weeks before the dermatr3st since it took 2 weeks till it kicked in last time?

3) How long should I wait to go on, if I did a solid 8 week pct after an 8 week 1andro/epi andro cycle, and bloods are solid?

Thanks

My opinion, fwiw, as I dont think nos has much to say on the andros except they suck:

1) personally wouldnt bother, unless you have some lying around you want to use up. There are some arguments for adding it (dht compliments the trestolone) but meh I wouldnt buy any to add

2) depends how you look at it; trest tends to kick in quick, arguably better to have something already going while you wait on the LGD to exert. So you could say your plan was to start the trest "late"; put like that it doesnt make much sense

3) for me it would depend on lipids. LGD will tend to smash them. If theyve only just recently settled, youre gonna be fubaring them again. But thats a somewhat personal call to make.

 

[Dholmes90]

Also checking out the Brutal 4ce, Abnormal, and Chosen 1 stack by Blackstone Labs. Anyone have experience using these products? Was told it's a good stack as well if I'm looking to bulk up. But it seems a bit underdosed compared to Andro the giant and Super mandro. Maybe I'm just overthinking it...

 

[Nac]

Also checking out the Brutal 4ce, Abnormal, and Chosen 1 stack by Blackstone Labs. Anyone have experience using these products? Was told it's a good stack as well if I'm looking to bulk up. But it seems a bit underdosed compared to Andro the giant and Super mandro. Maybe I'm just overthinking it...

Go with OL, Sparta, or Hard Rock for andros, especially if any of them on discount.

 

[Dholmes90]

Go with OL, Sparta, or Hard Rock for andros, especially if any of them on discount.

Yea I keep leaning towards Hard Rock andros, better bang for your buck it seems when compared to BSL andros. More mg per serving, and more servings too. I asked the BSL rep what to take for PCT, and he suggested their product of course. Said a SERM isn't necessary when running something mild like 1/4 andro.

 

[Nac]

Well, you need only compare the cost of a SERM vs their OTC product, and what something like clomid will do for your test compared to a herb like ashwagandha.

I lol though. If he agrees you need or should have something for PCT, he's already lost his argument for an OTC product.

 

[Dholmes90]

Well, you need only compare the cost of a SERM vs their OTC product, and what something like clomid will do for your test compared to a herb like ashwagandha.

I lol though. If he agrees you need or should have something for PCT, he's already lost his argument for an OTC product.

I agree with you. I'm extremely meticulous, so I'm going to make sure I run the andros cycle and PCT to an absolute tee. Clomid does look fairly cheap, but can it be bought online without buying it in research form? I'm not very familar with nolva or clomid, but I'm certainly doing my homework now haha.

 

[Caldwood]

I agree with you. I'm extremely meticulous, so I'm going to make sure I run the andros cycle and PCT to an absolute tee. Clomid does look fairly cheap, but can it be bought online without buying it in research form? I'm not very familar with nolva or clomid, but I'm certainly doing my homework now haha.

No it cannot be bought online unless it is in research form, technically. you need a scrip. Like I said I've had luck with research compounds on my rats but also lucky I had a scrip when they didn't work.

 

[Nac]

I agree with you. I'm extremely meticulous, so I'm going to make sure I run the andros cycle and PCT to an absolute tee. Clomid does look fairly cheap, but can it be bought online without buying it in research form? I'm not very familar with nolva or clomid, but I'm certainly doing my homework now haha.

I cant post specifics on where you might get pharma clomid or nolva. But it can be got.

There are numerous studies on clomid/clomiphene used by males for trt purposes. They usually dose clomid for much longer periods than we would do for a standard PCT.

 

[Caldwood]

I cant post specifics on where you might get pharma clomid or nolva. But it can be got.

There are numerous studies on clomid/clomiphene used by males for trt purposes. They usually dose clomid for much longer periods than we would do for a standard PCT.

A wise woodpecker once told me it's better to spread lower doses for 6 weeks compared to a typical 4week pct.

 

[Dholmes90]

No it cannot be bought online unless it is in research form, technically. you need a scrip. Like I said I've had luck with research compounds on my rats but also lucky I had a scrip when they didn't work.

Stupid question, but would getting a script for clomid be hard to get? The idea of buying something in research form makes me a bit nervous.

 

[Caldwood]

Stupid question, but would getting a script for clomid be hard to get? The idea of buying something in research form makes me a bit nervous.

Just be patient and let what your looking for be known. Funny how things work out sometimes. Yes it's a pain in the ass to get a scrip for.

 

[Nac]

I find it amusing how some of the supp companies selling OTC pct products claim

A) you dont need a SERM, so use their alternative product

B) then claim in their promo material that their pct product is "like" a SERM, or "as strong as aromasin"

 

[ozzie1987]

Ever tried injectable sd? Much easier on side effects but still has all the gains

No never tried it, I don't think I'd be able to get hold of any either. It's not the shut down, I'm prone to headaches and suffer on cycle. I'm gonna try 10mg and see how I get on around week 4, whether to continue. Just wondered if it would be too harsh on the liver for that length even at the lower dose.

 

[mikelly1107]

This I think is part of why theres a lot of hype and confusion around Rebirth, since it supposedly is an OTC serm.
So I'm a cycle noob and Im considering running a straight 330mg a day 1 andro cycle just to see what comes of it and get my feet wet, yet the need to find and purchase rx grade chems kind of puts newer people (me at least) on edge. Enter BLR's rebirth. Im a fan of BLR products, and I do feel like a aimplw 1 andro cycle isnt exactly high stakes, so Im considering using rebirth in addition to my normal test boost and ai at the end for PCT. Does anyone on here not think that would be a good idea? I figure if I ever get into more serious stuff then Ill have to use nolva/clomid, but for something small like this the idea of a serm you can just throw into your nutri cart is very appealing.

 

[mmorso]

This I think is part of why theres a lot of hype and confusion around Rebirth, since it supposedly is an OTC serm.
So I'm a cycle noob and Im considering running a straight 330mg a day 1 andro cycle just to see what comes of it and get my feet wet, yet the need to find and purchase rx grade chems kind of puts newer people (me at least) on edge. Enter BLR's rebirth. Im a fan of BLR products, and I do feel like a aimplw 1 andro cycle isnt exactly high stakes, so Im considering using rebirth in addition to my normal test boost and ai at the end for PCT. Does anyone on here not think that would be a good idea? I figure if I ever get into more serious stuff then Ill have to use nolva/clomid, but for something small like this the idea of a serm you can just throw into your nutri cart is very appealing.

No SERM, no cycle

 

[mike33511]

This I think is part of why theres a lot of hype and confusion around Rebirth, since it supposedly is an OTC serm.
So I'm a cycle noob and Im considering running a straight 330mg a day 1 andro cycle just to see what comes of it and get my feet wet, yet the need to find and purchase rx grade chems kind of puts newer people (me at least) on edge. Enter BLR's rebirth. Im a fan of BLR products, and I do feel like a aimplw 1 andro cycle isnt exactly high stakes, so Im considering using rebirth in addition to my normal test boost and ai at the end for PCT. Does anyone on here not think that would be a good idea? I figure if I ever get into more serious stuff then Ill have to use nolva/clomid, but for something small like this the idea of a serm you can just throw into your nutri cart is very appealing.

1-andro reduces to 1-testosterone via a 2-step conversion process. If you are supplementing with enough endogenous 1-testosterone to have some dramatic effects on body composition (which is the point, right?), then I assure you that it is more than enough to substantially suppress your natural testosterone production.

If you run 330mg of 1-andro a day, then after 8 weeks, your testosterone levels will be significantly lower than normal. You can allow your body to recover on its own, which could take months or maybe never happen at all. Or, since you used a drug that tanked your testosterone, you can use another drug, namely a SERM, to restore your testosterone levels in about 3-4 weeks. It's your call.

 

[Caldwood]

No SERM, no cycle

Exactly this, you've got to put skin in the game to play there isn't a one of us that wasn't nervous or worried at some point. It wasn't easy for any of us. Just got to want it bad enough to take the leap.

 

[hazard12]

Besides, if you are thinking, oh Ill just do some mild stuff and get mild gains....this is not how you do it. Mild gains + no serm = negligible gains by the time your T bounces back up...Why even bother with any of this if you are gonna end up with nothing to show for and a potentially screwed HPTA. I am sorry to tell you and all the beginners out there...THERE IS NO SUCH A THING AS AN EFFECTIVE MILD OTC CYCLE...those are industry lies made to push PHs and OTC ancillaries. OTC ancillaries have their place...AFTER SERMS and AIs as an insurance policy.

 

[Mrbolt84]

What's your opinion on using nolvadex "on cycle"

I'm super gyno prone and aromasin and exemestane seem to do little for me with controlling estrogen/gyno symptoms
For myself Nolvadex virtually clears up any gyno flare up during pct cycles...

I've done some research and have read both pro and con discussions on nolva during cycle

What's your thoughts ???

 

[Caldwood]

What's your opinion on using nolvadex "on cycle"

I'm super gyno prone and aromasin and exemestane seem to do little for me with controlling estrogen/gyno symptoms
For myself Nolvadex virtually clears up any gyno flare up during pct cycles...

I've done some research and have read both pro and con discussions on nolva during cycle

What's your thoughts ???

You can do nolva while your on cycle if you are that sensitive. Happens all the time when you run high converting compounds, together at the same time. It will hurt your gains a little so try to work out a dose that is as minimal as possible but still effective

 

[Caldwood]

What's your opinion on using nolvadex "on cycle"

I'm super gyno prone and aromasin and exemestane seem to do little for me with controlling estrogen/gyno symptoms
For myself Nolvadex virtually clears up any gyno flare up during pct cycles...

I've done some research and have read both pro and con discussions on nolva during cycle

What's your thoughts ???

mod edit: we don't talk about sources in any way.

 

[Chub]

I've got a cycle coming up closer to summer. I have enough to run
Epi-Andro – 1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000
1-Andro – 330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
4-Andro – 330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330

I've ran 1-Andro and Epi-Andro before but not 4-Andro. Was thinking of dropping the 4-Andro and saving it for a Epistane cycle at the end of the year, thoughts?

Cheers!

 

[mikelly1107]

1-andro reduces to 1-testosterone via a 2-step conversion process. If you are supplementing with enough endogenous 1-testosterone to have some dramatic effects on body composition (which is the point, right?), then I assure you that it is more than enough to substantially suppress your natural testosterone production.

If you run 330mg of 1-andro a day, then after 8 weeks, your testosterone levels will be significantly lower than normal. You can allow your body to recover on its own, which could take months or maybe never happen at all. Or, since you used a drug that tanked your testosterone, you can use another drug, namely a SERM, to restore your testosterone levels in about 3-4 weeks. It's your call.

Right see this is what I'm talking about! I understand the necessary and important nature of the serm in the pct which is why rebirth had begun gathering so much attention. Instead of using research Chems or trying to find RX strength and quality it's an otc serm not just a pct product. That seems to be fairly unique and new and that's why I brought it up in this thread to ask about

 

[hazard12]

As someone who has been in your shoes more than once, lemme tell ya, I rather put my money/balls on a "research chem site" SERM than an OTC serm. Mind you, if I didnt knew the effectiveness of the research chem one id have both on hand but honestly, Its not hard to find good SERMs online...If you put your mind to it and do some research you could have a safe bet by tonight...

 

[mike33511]

Right see this is what I'm talking about! I understand the necessary and important nature of the serm in the pct which is why rebirth had begun gathering so much attention. Instead of using research Chems or trying to find RX strength and quality it's an otc serm not just a pct product. That seems to be fairly unique and new and that's why I brought it up in this thread to ask about

When I say SERM, I am not referring to Rebirth. I am referring to Clomid or Nolva.

 

[hazard12]

When I say SERM, I am not referring to Rebirth. I am referring to Clomid or Nolva.

Which are "proven" SERMs. Rebirth has only been identified to have SERM-like qualities which is why its called a SERM but it has so little research in comparison its a sketchier bet than RC sites. Although as I previously said, its a neat insurance policy and hey you could do a 4 week SERM run, run bloods and then a 4 week Rebirth run and run bloods again. You might find some cool evidence you can use later (which would only really apply to you) or figure out you just saved your ass by listening to us. Either ways I think itd be a good experiment if you are set on using Rebirth.

 

[mikelly1107]

When I say SERM, I am not referring to Rebirth. I am referring to Clomid or Nolva.

Ok fair enough thank you for your input. It seems there's a mixed amount of faith in that product, but only serves to confuse newer people like me who are still just getting their research in. And I dont mean to sound painfully stupid about this either merely looking for more opinions, since over in the supplements section this pct route has gotten some hefty praise. Thanks again

 

[mike33511]

Ok fair enough thank you for your input. It seems there's a mixed amount of faith in that product, but only serves to confuse newer people like me who are still just getting their research in. And I dont mean to sound painfully stupid about this either merely looking for more opinions, since over in the supplements section this pct route has gotten some hefty praise. Thanks again

Remember that even these 2-step prohormones are effective at building muscle because they ultimately become steroids once they are processed by the body. As such, they need to be treated with a certain level of respect.

Anything as effective as steroids is bound to have negative side effects. Radiation therapy is perfectly capable of destroying cancerous tumors, but it might destroy the rest of your body first. There is nothing natural about using steroids to enhance muscular development, so the idea that you could use something natural to recover from them is laughable.

 

[Hardgainer669]

Hi mate im looking at doing a dermatrest dbol and primobolan cycle with yk11 and of course all the stuff to support and aid it as well as a good whey isolate bcaa zma powder. Just wondering if you think there will be some good gains. Like will they work together well?

 

[yates84]

Hi mate im looking at doing a dermatrest dbol and primobolan cycle with yk11 and of course all the stuff to support and aid it as well as a good whey isolate bcaa zma powder. Just wondering if you think there will be some good gains. Like will they work together well?

Trest and dbol both aromatize into methyl estrogen! Very bad combination

 

[hazard12]

Trest and dbol both aromatize into methyl estrogen! Very bad combination

Out of curiosity, would this be viable with large AI doses right off the bat? If not, whats the drawback?

 

[nosnmiveins]

Out of curiosity, would this be viable with large AI doses right off the bat? If not, whats the drawback?

I always recommend to everyone to use the LEAST EFFECTIVE dose. Thats with all drugs, especially AIs. You dont want to crush your estrogen, right off the bat or later into the cycle.

Let me say this FIRST. Dont assume your estrogen is too high or too low, GET BLOODWORK DONE TO KNOW FOR SURE.

Now for an AI example while using Trest:

If you normally use .25mg arimidex 2x weekly on a Test 500mg/week cycle. Start there. If after the first few weeks you are still getting itchy nips (itchy nips arent a true sign of gyno, but an OK indicator of what may be to come) or other more pronounced problems then slowly raise your AI dose....add in one more dose of .25mg.

So now you're at .25mg 3x weekly.

Adjust if needed.

Simple and effective

 

[hazard12]

I should have formulated that better. What if you use THE RIGHT amount of AIs right off the bat. Exactly as much to result in the estrogen levels youd want during a cycle, even while using trest and dbol. I am assuming this would be a larger than usual AI dose, which is why I said large, I did not mean OVERKILL.

 

[Mrbolt84]

What's a good cycle for somebody who aromatizes heavily?
A cycle more focused on hardening rather than bulking.
I'm thinking about using the least amount of test possible, just keeping test high enough to avoid lethargy and loss of sex drive during the cycle..maybe 150-200 test a week. Stacked with another compound that doesn't aromatize..

 

[Dholmes90]

I always recommend to everyone to use the LEAST EFFECTIVE dose. Thats with all drugs, especially AIs. You dont want to crush your estrogen, right off the bat or later into the cycle.

Let me say this FIRST. Dont assume your estrogen is too high or too low, GET BLOODWORK DONE TO KNOW FOR SURE.

Now for an AI example while using Trest:

If you normally use .25mg arimidex 2x weekly on a Test 500mg/week cycle. Start there. If after the first few weeks you are still getting itchy nips (itchy nips arent a true sign of gyno, but an OK indicator of what may be to come) or other more pronounced problems then slowly raise your AI dose....add in one more dose of .25mg.

So now you're at .25mg 3x weekly.

Adjust if needed.

Simple and effective

So then, for instance, when I run my 1 and 4 Andro stack later this year, I shouldn't use an estrogen blocker starting on day 1? But keep it on hand in case I start experiencing any estrogen related side effects as I progress on the cycle and start with a low dose first? I also read that you can use an AI for about 8-10 days after you finish your PCT to avoid any rebound gyno as well.