Nootrol vs Nootropimax
- Thread starter Ricky10
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primolift00
Member
brundel
Board Sponsor
primolift00
Member
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Have you tried taking it with caffeine and other nootropics? Huge difference vs taking it alone for me.
pbandy1
Member
yes. also with tyrosine.
similar to melatonin for me but in different aspects. Can't take either melatonin or bacopa, no amount of caffeine seems to overcome the lack of drive and motivation.
Also, personally I'm not a huge fan of caffeine, I just stick to a couple cups of coffee.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
How have you dosed your bacopa (how many mg per dose, doses per day, with or without food, etc)?
brundel
Board Sponsor
There is a reason for this. Bacopa and most nootropics work by increasing acetylcholine. Unfortunately increased acetylcholine decreases dopamine and serotonin causing harsh side effects like depression, brain fog, lack of motivation etc.
This is why NOOTROL is different.
We added big doses of ingredients that specifically balance this out. Tyrosol, Salidroside, and centella really kick out dopamine and serotonin.
As a result you feel alot better and this product can be run long term without the negatives pretty much every Nootropic Ive used has.
Depression, Lethargy, brain fog etc etc etc.
not with Nootrol.
We tested it for months and tinkered with the dosing to specifically prevent this.
pbandy1
Member
300 mg, 45% bacosides. once per day with food
ELROCK
Well-known member
I thought I was the only one on this forum that gets that way with bacopa.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Did you use it in conjunction with other nootropics and some caffeine..or just by itself?
I have had it in Myokem Pyroxamine which has a low dose but I love that. Other than that, I have tried OL Elixir which got me somewhat overly focused (or something) because I actually found it difficult to think and interact with people at work. I don't really know if it had anything to do with the Bacopa specifically or not though..
jarrellt67
Well-known member
Anyone that gets tired or demotivated from bacopa should give the Synapsa extract a try (Doctor's Best and Nutrigold make it). The feeling is very different than Bacognize and other extracts (Bacognize is the worst at causing demotivation). The Synapsa extract doesn't seem to cause any tiredness or lack of motivation (MANY reviews online also say the same thing). Also, if you look at a lot of the studies which reported energy, mood, etc. increases...they used the CDRI-08 extract (which is also the Synapsa extract).
Ricky10
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. ELROCK and myself are going to be logging Nootropimax for Performax...any day now. So we will probably have to hold off on experimenting with another product. I remain hopeful that I respond well to Nootropimax. Getting a bit antsy to start..I'm ready!
jarrellt67
Well-known member
Just to clarify, Nootropimax appears to have a lot of other things in it that will easily offset the tiredness and lethargy from the bacognize extract. My comment was just in terms of individual bacopa products. I guess one other thing to consider is that while the Synapsa extract has many recent (last decade or two) studies backing it's use and effects, it's been modified to get those results...while the Bacognize extract is more in line with the traditional "fingerprint" (or constituent ratios) of bacopa. I like to compare it to the use of Sensoril Ashwagandha (modified to increase withonolides by including the leaves) versus KSM-66 ashwagandha (all root in line with the traditional ashwagandha "fingerprint").
Ricky10
Well-known member
Very interesting stuff. Yeah..I suspect that I will like the feel of Nootropimax..
ELROCK
Well-known member
I still have yet to try the Synapsa extract of bacopa, but I will eventually get to it. I know the nootropic depot also has it.
ELROCK
Well-known member
Yes, I played with many of the variables (dosing, different brands, time, caff, stims, etc). I also different dosing with OL Elix1r and it was a fail for me.
I am still optimistic for NootropiMax though because it looks well balanced with noots and stimulation.
carguy123
Active member
Damn man thanks for the info, this is real solid stuff. This is one of those tid bits of information that I will need to reference in like 8 months and have no idea where I remember reading it lol
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I do also want to say that while it is obvious that not everyone will react well to a given ingredient, in the grand scheme to things, bacopa is well tolerated, and the majority of users do not notice adverse effects significantly different than placebo. I'm not saying this go downplay anyone's experience by any means, just to give some context for a broader audience. Additionally, you bring up a good point that the other nootropics and stimulants in NootropiMax make it a very different experience that bacopa alone, or even with a cup of coffee or a caffeine tab. On that note, I do not recall anyone feeling tired of a lack of motivation from NootropiMax at any stage of the testing.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You will have it soon, and I'm super excited to see everyone's feedback on it!
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Additionally, I've seen someone incorrectly say that since bacopa increases acetylcholine, it decreases serotonin, as bacopa has been shown to increase serotonin levels in the hippocampus of animals. There's also the fact that animal studies have shown that it can significantly increase dendritic length, intersections, and branching points in the brain, so it's not really doing bacopa justice to say that it works only by increasing acetylcholine levels, and researchers do not believe that this (increased acetylcholine) is even the primary MoA for bacopa's benefits. Bacopa has been shown to decrease dopamine levels, but it may actually be more of a dopamine regulator than anything.
Also, what makes someone think that we didn't place any thought/effort/considerations in regards to serotonergic and dopaminergic effects in the NootropiMax formula? As mentioned before, bacopa can increase serotonin levels, CDP-choline may augment dopaminergic signalling and reduce the decline in dopamine noted with neurological damage, we all know caffeine's effect on dopamine, etc. The ingredients in NootropiMax are designed to work together, to increase the benefits of each other while reducing any potential negatives they may have; it's not just a random collection of ingredients.
Also, what makes someone think that we didn't place any thought/effort/considerations in regards to serotonergic and dopaminergic effects in the NootropiMax formula? As mentioned before, bacopa can increase serotonin levels, CDP-choline may augment dopaminergic signalling and reduce the decline in dopamine noted with neurological damage, we all know caffeine's effect on dopamine, etc. The ingredients in NootropiMax are designed to work together, to increase the benefits of each other while reducing any potential negatives they may have; it's not just a random collection of ingredients.
ELROCK
Well-known member
And this is why I still have not given up on bacopa. The research on it is strong and anything that can improve memory is great in my book. I just haven't had much luck with it so far and the sides for me were enough for me to drop it (multiple different times lol).
I am still looking forward to putting NootropiMax to the test. Synapsa has also been on the list of things to try for awhile now.
kisaj
Legend
Oh no, it's more common that you'd think. I personally don't like it at all and would never take anything with it included. In addition, I am not a fan of noots that require a long build up and bacopa is one of those can can take 6-8 weeks to really notice.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I can see why it's not for everyone with the long one to really notice benefits, but I feel it is a useful addition in a product that also has nootropics that have an acute, or more acute, effect, as you still get the acute effects you're looking for, and some extra benefits with continued use, as opposed to some products where the effects diminish over time. It is one of the more tried and true, research supported nootropics out there.
pbandy1
Member
A lot of people on the nootropics subreddit actually report these negative effects
kisaj
Legend
I obviously respect your opinion based on our conversations here, but I cannot agree with this statement because with the ingredients that have acute effect, we generally cycle with short breaks. So by the time bacopa is in effect based on studies, we are about ready to cycle the acute noots (around every 8 weeks), effectively making bacopa the active ingredient in the product at that point. So bacopa is fairly useless in a product that is filled with noots providing acute effects since there would be no reason to continue taking a blend with really one ingredient just starting to really work- you'd just take that ingredient if you found benefit.
Again, IMO, bacopa should not be used in blends because it doesn't work like other noots with regards to time and effect.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
There is a newer study on bacopa showing benefits in regards to cognition within 6 weeks in medical students:
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and other studies have also noted improved cognition within 4-6 weeks, as well as an animal study showing proliferation of dendritic intersections and branching points in neurons. Additionally, since there has been a bit of talk about dopamine and serotonin, animal studies have shown that bacopa can reduce/prevent the depletion of dopamine and serotonin resulting from acute and chronic stress, and bacopa has some anxiolytic effects that may require less time to be realized than the cognitive benefits. Due to this, I feel it has a place in the formula, and helps to round out the combination of improving cognition/memory, increasing energy and focus, and improving mood and reducing stress/anxiety. Additionally, even some of these "acute" nootropic ingredients work better with daily/continued use, so I do think that you'll get the most out of this by using it daily for several weeks, by which time the bacopa will be working. Additionally, just because you are "ready to cycle" your acute noots at about 8 weeks doesn't mean that they're not "active" or effective at that point by any means, so bacopa certainly wouldn't be the only "active ingredient" in the product at that point, just the most recent one to notice the full effects of (my apologies if I interpreted that wrong).
Ricky10
Well-known member
Maybe if you start taking Nootropimax..you will remember when that time comes! Same goes for me, and it sounds like my bottle is on the way!
Ricky10
Well-known member
I need all those benefits..yesterday..
rtmilburn
Well-known member
And it looks like thus far I'm the only one to take nootropimax that wasn't an alpha tester(as it isn't technically out yet, guess you could call me a beta tester). So check out my log
SFreed
Board Supporter
I'll bet you say that to all the girls
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Girls girls girls
brundel
Board Sponsor
Nutriverse has plenty of stock but we will be shipping to other retailers shortly. Later this week probably.
cubsfan815
Well-known member
NootropiMax insider sale this week. Price will be lowest available. If you are not on the insider email, you can PM myself or and Performax Labs rep for info.
ucheoma
Active member
Do you ship to uk?
cubsfan815
Well-known member
Looks like no uk shipping option. Adizzle1 can verify.
cubsfan815
Well-known member
There are a ton of logs going on in the logging section. Head over and check them out.
Some of the links to the logs are in this thread.
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brundel
Board Sponsor
This was a huge deal for me as well. High daily doses of caffeine cause more harm than good in my opinion.
A small dose release less stress hormones and prevents the crash associated with larger doses. Anything more than 100mg for me and I crash hard.
Not exactly productive. For me. There isnt enough caffeine in Nootrol to cause the crash and not enough to raise stress hormones to much and not enough to cause adrenal fatigue and not enough to cause addiction etc etc etc. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
I realize that the Nootropimax guys disagree with this and thats ok. Thats why we have different brands with different products. Not everything fits everyone.
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muscleupcrohn
Legend
I've posted in more detail about this before. I do not agree that moderate daily caffeine content does more harm than good in regards to cognition, either in the short term or long term. I'm on my phone now, but I can put up the references (studies, papers, etc) that support my claims when I get to my computer. Granted, many people consume a ton of caffeine from other sources besides their Nootropic, which can be an issue, but I do not believe that, for the vast majority of potential users, the amount of caffeine in NootropiMax will cause "more harm than good" if it is the primary source of caffeine for said users. However, as you said, and as I have said many times, it's just a different approach to formulation, which gives users more options, which is always a good thing.
ucheoma
Active member
Truth is, if people are anything like me (and i accept most wont be coffee junkies, but lots are!), they wont restrict their caffeine intake to a nootropic. Most likely they will imbibe additional caffeine from other sources and not keep track of their overall intake as you develop higher and higher tolearnce levels with caffeine. I'm determined to cut down my caffeine intake and my aim is to limit my cups of coffee to 2 a day. Until then i dont think Ill be buying anything yet, including pres, which contains more than 100 mg of caffeine a serving
muscleupcrohn
Legend
As we've said, it's up to the individual. Also, it may be worth noting that nootropic supplements also appeal to a broader group of people than just the fitness-oriented individuals that make up the majority of forums like these. Most people aren't taking a pre-workout supplement almost every day with 300+ mg caffeine and several other ingredients that they feel they need to have a good workout. The majority of people get their caffeine from coffee and/or energy drinks really, and nootropics that have some caffeine are certainly a preferable alternative to something like a Red Bull, Monster, or 5-Hour Energy, and there's not too much caffeine that having some coffee with it (especially if you split the dose) is out of the question at all.
Also, as it's been said, it comes down to differences in formulation philosophy. Many ingredients in NootropiMax are designed to be synergistic with caffeine; it's not like a lot of "nootropics" out there that are primarily stimulant products with a "dusting" of "nootropic" ingredients to fluff up the label. We formulated it to get the most out of the caffeine, and feel that the ingredients in the formula help potentiate each other while reducing potential negatives.
I was trying to find my old post where I referenced some studies, but it seems that the post is deleted. I was able to find it quoted, so it's missing anything quoted in the original post. Strange. Oh well. Here's some of it, with what I think was taken out from being quoted added back in:
Actually, there is research that suggests moderate daily caffeine consumption (coffee, tea, etc, so not just coffee) is associated with less cognitive decline in elderly people.
Here are some interesting excerpts from the texts of relevant studies/papers. At the least, perhaps they can help people see that even you don't personally think having moderate doses of caffeine daily is ideal for you, the "downsides" in regards to long-term cognition are often overstated, and I would NOT say that long-term caffeine consumption is detrimental to long-term cognitive function:
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Some quick info on the caffeine content of coffee, since there are often drastically differing numbers out there:
It is true that caffeine contains more than just caffeine, but this still helps to show that moderate daily caffeine consumption may not only not be detrimental to long-term cognition, but may even preserve cognitive function as we age:
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