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Full disclosure vs Prop Blend

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Woody said:
I'll answer for you: nothing on that label violates 21 CFR 101. If something did violate, feel free to correct me with specifics not a conclusory statement. Give the section or maybe a sentence about what's wrong with it.
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Still relevant.
 
Chuck said:
Heres something. When you see:

Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 1000 IU 250%

How much Vit D is in this fully disclosed statement? Post it. Dont google it. Dont ask someone who's actually in the industry. You post the answer.
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^^^^

Crickets right?? Anyone else got an answer??? Nope.

My point is full disclose for what..you dont even know what your looking at.
 
Woody said:
My point is you don't even know what regulation makes that label 'non compliant'.
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I dont know?

How about you answer that Vit D question.
 
Woody said:
I'll answer for you: nothing on that label violates 21 CFR 101. If something did violate, feel free to correct me with specifics not a conclusory statement. Give the section or maybe a sentence about what's wrong with it.
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Go back and read my post. I pointed out one problem. Believe me of today is the first time you have heard or seen that CFR (which that link posted isnt the CFR) you are years away from mastery of it.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Go back and read my post. I pointed out one problem. Believe me of today is the first time you have heard or seen that CFR (which that link posted isnt the CFR) you are years away from mastery of it.
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I didn't post that link and I deal with CFR's on a daily basis lol
 
So let me get this straight. I made a full disclosure statement and none of you want to take a crack and answer how much Vit D is in the product. Just as I thought.
 
Woody said:
I didn't post that link and I deal with CFR's on a daily basis lol
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Listen. I was an Occupation Health specialist for over 8 yrs and dealt with CFRs for years. There are tons of CFRs. Who cares...
Has nothing to do w the CFR that governs dietary supplement labels.
 
This also why my reps dont run around talking wreckless all over AM....because if someone puts them on the spot....no answer.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Listen. I was an Occupation Health specialist for over 8 yrs and dealt with CFRs for years. There are tons of CFRs. Who cares...
Has nothing to do w the CFR that governs dietary supplement labels.
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Being an occupation health specialist has zero to do with interpreting and/or understanding a CFR, any case law interpreting them, and any FDA rules/opinions. You make supplements. I sue people. I don't need 8 years to master a CFR.
 
Young Gotti said:
Same way they've been asking you for proof of your statement but you haven't answered yet
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So that's a no right? You do not feel comfortable answering my question on that full disclosure statement right?

I told u. I think thats a board sponsor product and I cant comment? How do I know I cant? Bc ive gotten into it w Scivation and other brands and the thread will get locked and the post will get deleted and I will get a PM to cut it out. I already stated that at least 2x.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
So that's a know right? You do not feel comfortable answering my question on that full disclosure statement right?

I told u. I think thats a board sponsor product and I cant comment? How do I know I cant? Bc ive gotten into it w Scivation and other brands and the thread will get locked and the post will get deleted and I will get a PM to cut it out. I already stated that at least 2x.
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No I'm ignoring your question the same way your ignoring the question....except I'm not making lame excuses after you've already made comments
 
Woody said:
Being an occupation health specialist has zero to do with interpreting and/or understanding a CFR, any case law interpreting them, and any FDA rules/opinions. You make supplements. I sue people. I don't need 8 years to master a CFR.
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Ok well you dont know 21 cfr. Go back and read it again. There is a section on botanical names. Read it. Take care. You sue people but feel comfortable stating that label is compliant and you are in the interpretation of rules business?
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Ok well you dont know 21 cfr. Go back and read it again. There is a section on botanical names. Read it. Take care. You sue people but feel comfortable stating that label is compliant and you are in the interpretation of rules business?
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Lol......
 
Woody said:
21 CFR 101.XX exactly. There's like 80 subsections. I'd be willing to go to bat saying its compliant.
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Exactly. But I don't need it in front of me. This is what I do. You guys stay in your lane. I correct manufacturers and companies on a regular:

Vit B-3 has to be declared with its source listed (as Niacin, as Niacinamide, etc)

Botanical names. To be used in place of common names have to be listed in italics with first letter of first word in caps and 1st letter of 2nd word in name in lower case.

So back to my point. How is anyone going to make a buying decision looking at a label if they don't even know what they are looking at...
See my Vit D example.

Have a goodnight know-it-alls.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Exactly. But I don't need it in front of me. This is what I do. You guys stay in your lane. I correct manufacturers and companies on a regular:

Vit B-3 has to be declared with its source listed (as Niacin, as Niacinamide, etc)

Botanical names. To be used in place of common names have to be listed in italics with first letter of first word in caps and 1st letter of 2nd word in name in lower case.

So back to my point. How is anyone going to make a buying decision looking at a label if they don't even know what they are looking at...
See my Vit D example.

Have a goodnight know-it-alls.
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Haha haha....sorry next time I'll look for capital letters in the right spots lol...how silly of me not to pay attention to capital letters, especially when the conversation had nothing to do with it
 
A capital letter and the lack of italics?

You realize they have zero impact on a label? I can read a label just the same if it's Apple pie or Apple Pie or aPpLe PiE. That has zero impact on the products efficiency and it's more than likely a graphic design error.
 
Im not trying to get anything in front of a judge. I dont care if other companies labels are compliant your statement made no sense about a judge. Who is talking about seuing. There is a regulation and it isnt followed by the industry. Honestly it has to do with a lot of products not meeting label claims but I don't expect you guys to know why. I expect you guys to care about capitol letters. The point is there is a reg to follow. The point isnt if you can read it either way upper or lower case.
 
Can anyone answer my Vit D question?? If full disclosure is important it should also be important to know what you are looking at. Lack of compliance w the CFR is why none of you can answer the question. That and you don't know what you are looking at or for but want "full disclosure."
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Can anyone answer my Vit D question?? If full disclosure is important it should also be important to know what you are looking at. Lack of compliance w the CFR is why none of you can answer the question. That and you don't know what you are looking at or for but want "full disclosure."
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I know if I'm looking at a product label that has a longer list than processed foods then I'm probably passing on that product
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a ton of FDA compliant labels on shiit products. Prop or no Prop. Doesn't mean anything. Can be used as a buffer for said crap product. Not directing this at Diesel, never used a product, I just feel like the whole idea of it is meaningless in relation to quality. CAN IT indicate higher standards? Sure. But does it always? Not likely.
 
Young Gotti said:
I know if I'm looking at a product label that has a longer list than processed foods then I'm probably passing on that product
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Do you know what this product is?

Ill help you...its a product you have used. Haha.

Premium Powders whole foods multi incase you are wondering.
 

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Young Gotti said:
Ok?
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Read the post of yours I quoted and you figure out why thats ironic and funny.

That product has 9 separate prop blends. One of the blends have 20 ingedients or so and totals 100mg. One of the 9 blends...
 
Dma378 said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a ton of FDA compliant labels on shiit products. Prop or no Prop. Doesn't mean anything. Can be used as a buffer for said crap product. Not directing this at Diesel, never used a product, I just feel like the whole idea of it is meaningless in relation to quality. CAN IT indicate higher standards? Sure. But does it always? Not likely.
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Yeah thats true. My point is how can someone say they are buying one prob blend over another based on their love for full disclosure and they don't even know how to read a label.

Im saying whats the purpose of using full dislosure to make a buying decision if you cant interpret the label property. As in have no idea what you are looking at.
 
Young Gotti said:
Not at all...it's a multi...the multi I have now is similar

And yet it's still broken down better than your test booster
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Dude im not even talking about the multi vitamin side.
 
Young Gotti said:
Not at all...it's a multi...the multi I have now is similar

And yet it's still broken down better than your test booster
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Its not just a multi...what are you talking about. Look at the 9 blends.
 
Young Gotti said:
I know what your looking at and it's funny to me that you think that it somehow is meaningful
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Well its kinda odd for someone to say they stay away from products w large prop blends but use a product with 9 prop blends of like 50-70 items total in all the blends...then say "oh that doesnt count...its a multi".

Those 70 items add up to like 1.1g.
 
This thread has gone crazy and may be the fastest growing thread to date. Regarding the label in question the Vitamin D percentage is wrong
 
I've been following this thread ... Let me say one thing. I've taken Chuck's products since about 2007 on / off. There are not better test boosters in the industry ... Period. I buy based upon results not how a label is presented. Buy the label you like, I'll buy the product that works, let's see where it gets us both :)
 
kisaj said:
I think it's because it looks like someone took every product under the sun and just through it in the mix and it looks like they don't know what they are doing. At least that's how I read it.
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unfortunately for some companies that do that, thats exactly how i feel when i see labels that have 20+
ingredients in a prop blend. Its a kitchen sink approach. You don't have to dose any of the ingredients
at full dosage if you have that many doing something.
 
How much amphetamine was disclosed in Craze's label?
 
Hopefully people hear my sarcasm
 
How did this thread go to some reasonable responses, to a user posting two labels (not stating products names or the company) simply stating this is what they believe is appropriate for a prop blend, to this mayhem? It was simply an example and people have their panties in a bundle
 
I dunno...its understandable why certain parties got defensive and bickering ensued.

Conflict makes some people uncomfortable. As long as it doesn't devolve into ad-hominem attacks, I find it quite educational, revealing, and in the case of some of the logical fallacies presented in this thread, hilarious.
 
It will stop. I know that.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Well its kinda odd for someone to say they stay away from products w large prop blends but use a product with 9 prop blends of like 50-70 items total in all the blends...then say "oh that doesnt count...its a multi".

Those 70 items add up to like 1.1g.
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Well this is the funniest sht in this thread to me..super advocate for full disclosure or min. prop blends...then I do some research and the dude uses a product with 9 prop blends made up of 70 ingredients that total 1g. haha
 
double s said:
This thread has gone crazy and may be the fastest growing thread to date. Regarding the label in question the Vitamin D percentage is wrong
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The Vit D percentage is actually correct. 400IU is the 100% DV, 1,000 IU would be 250%. Just FYI.
 
double s said:
Are we talking the RDA, RDI or what exactly. Yes one is 400 IU but the other RDA is 600, guess we're both right :think:
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I'm talking DV as in a FDA label. The point I was making is people don't even know what they are looking at even if its fully disclosed.

"Recommended intakes of nutrients vary by age and gender and are known as Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) and Adequate Intakes (AIs). However, one value for each nutrient, known as the Daily Value (DV), is selected for the labels of dietary supplements and foods. A DV is often, but not always, similar to one's RDA or AI for that nutrient. DVs were developed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to help consumers determine the level of various nutrients in a standard serving of food in relation to their approximate requirement for it. The label actually provides the %DV so that you can see how much (what percentage) a serving of the product contributes to reaching the DV."
 
I respect you Chuck for being in here seemingly against everybody defending your products and making your case. But let's be honest, no one gives a shiit about Vitamin C. Yeah, yeah, just goes to show that people don't know what they're looking at. But what we do know what to look for, are certain ingredients at certain doses that are going to provide a desired effect. Test boosting, muscle building, pump inducing, strength enhancing, focus, drive, endurance, etc. We're splitting hairs over the semantics of really irrelevant ingredients. You're right, he's taking a big prop blend multi. But again let's be honest, big difference in the regard at which you hold your multivitamin and where you hold your performance supplements.
 
Dma378 said:
I respect you Chuck for being in here seemingly against everybody defending your products and making your case. But let's be honest, no one gives a shiit about Vitamin C. Yeah, yeah, just goes to show that people don't know what they're looking at. But what we do know what to look for, are certain ingredients at certain doses that are going to provide a desired effect. Test boosting, muscle building, pump inducing, strength enhancing, focus, drive, endurance, etc. We're splitting hairs over the semantics of really irrelevant ingredients. You're right, he's taking a big prop blend multi. But again let's be honest, big difference in the regard at which you hold your multivitamin and where you hold your performance supplements.
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No idea what you are talking about. My multi has a prop blend also of other ingredients in their that makes it a performance product, not just a multi.

No idea about the Vit C comment either.

Diesel Warrior multi
Invalid Link Removed

Anyway my point is buy product based on whatever reasoning you want, but full disclosure doesn't make a product better than a blend one, yes there are some garbage blend products, this dude just picked the wrong product to use as a "over the top blend" in choosing my Diesel Test. Esp if he uses a multi with herbs, etc totaling 9 blends at 70 ingredients. The me against them I don't mind, its always been that way for GET DIESEL on AM. But I know people like bighulk will not comment on my line on here, knows its prob the best products he have ever used. Thats what counts to me. So I do understand the philosophy of huge blend means maybe might not do anything....but advocates for show us the full disclosure should know what they are being disclosed. The Vit D question is 19 out of 20 times the 1000IU product will not test 1000IU of Vit D because the manufacture and sup company doesn't know how to interpret the regulation. So you have been disclosed 1000IU of Vit D on a panel but there isn't 1000IU's of Vit D in the product.

off to train legs on my prob blended preworkout.
 
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