Full disclosure vs Prop Blend

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FDA compliance is an indication of the quality that goes into the the product. The idea of the CFR the governs labeling is to make sure food and supplements are labeled in a consistent honest format under standards set by the FDA. So if you say it has nothing to do with the product Woody....im at another level to even be talking to you about this.

I can post a "full disclosure" label and ask you how much xyz is in this product and I can guarantee you will get it wrong looking right at the label. Thats why isnt important.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You can't necessarily take 1/2 the dose of 2 ingredients, throw them together, and assume it'll be as effective as the dull dose of 1 ingredient.
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U actually can. 10mg of ephedrine and 100mg of caffeine is a better thermogenic formula than 200mg of caffeine used alone........
 
Chuck Diesel said:
FDA compliance is an indication of the quality that goes into the the product. The idea of the CFR the governs labeling is to make sure food and supplements are labeled in a consistent honest format under standards set by the FDA. So if you say it has nothing to do with the product Woody....im at another level to even be talking to you about this.

I can post a "full disclosure" label and ask you how much xyz is in this product and I can guarantee you will get it wrong looking right at the label. Thats why isnt important.
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I'm curious to know what that last part even means. Let's see.
 
[2mg yohimbine. 100mg caffeine and 8mg ephedrine] is more thermogenic than 200mg of caffeine or 20mg ephedrine. Do I need to continue??
 
Chuck Diesel said:
U actually can. 10mg of ephedrine and 100mg of caffeine is a better thermogenic formula than 200mg of caffeine used alone........
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It isn't something that inherently holds true. Some ingredients are synergistic, but some aren't. I said it isn't NECESSARILY the case, not that it is never the case. Reading comprehension.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
[2mg yohimbine. 100mg caffeine and 8mg ephedrine] is more thermogenic than 200mg of caffeine or 20mg ephedrine. Do I need to continue??
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See my response. I said it isn't INHERENTLY true, not that it is never true. I can give you tons of examples where taking 1/2 the dose of 2 ingredients just gives you one useless blend too.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Show us this label and see if we can figure it out.
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Ill do it when I have time. I can make up a "full disclose" label. I really dont have to bc you guys don't even know whats really in the full disclosure labels already on the market.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
See my response. I said it isn't INHERENTLY true, not that it is never true. I can give you tons of examples where taking 1/2 the dose of 2 ingredients just gives you one useless blend too.
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What? Look at what I quoted from you. You said exactly that you cant do that and it be effective.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Also, one more example as to why food/cooking isn't the same as supplements:

You can have a good surf and turf with half a serving of meat and half a serving of seafood as opposed to just one full serving of each, but the same can't be said of supplements. You can't necessarily take 1/2 the dose of 2 ingredients, throw them together, and assume it'll be as effective as the dull dose of 1 ingredient.
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"The same cant be said for supplments".... i just said it and showed it for supplements correct?? Using the same way you did your surf and turf.
 
Trust me this is a lost cause. I've been shutting up know-it-alls on here for over 10 yrs
 
Chuck Diesel said:
"The same cant be said for supplments".... i just said it and showed it for supplements correct?? Using the same way you did your surf and turf.
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You picked part of my post/sentence without giving the full context. Immediately after the part you conveniently picked out, I said "you can't NECESSARILY take 1/2 the dose..." That doesn't mean it can't be done, just that it isn't something that inherently works. 1/2 + 1/2 doesn't always = 1 in this regard.
 
Ok so why say it if you feel it can be done??

Your example says the probability it can be done isnt there.
 
Well, nobody ever said that either.

Anyways, full disclosure doesn't say anything about the quality of the used ingredients either, only about their dosage. Especially, stuff like Tongkat Ali varies a lot with regard to quality and dosage.

I tried Alphamax XT not too long ago and personally I got better results with Diesel Hardcore or even Tropinol XP. Totally subjective and results may vary, but I am one of those "regular" guys who judge by results. I like to try things before making a judgement, so full disclosure or prop blend are not really an argument for or against trying it. At least for me.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Ok so why say it if you feel it can be done??
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I'm saying it isn't a rule. It doesn't NECESSARILY or inherently hold true. It isn't something you can take for granted. I can inherently make a filling meal by giving you once slice of a plethora of meats (an amount of each that is in no way filling), but I can't NECESSARILY do the same thing with a supplement. I can't take 1g of 5 random ingredients and assume that they'll be as effective as 5g of 1 ingredient. That is all.
 
I can't take 1g of 5 random ingredients and assume that they'll be as effective as 5g of 1 ingredient. That is all.[/QUOTE]

Ok i just proved different. I think you are confusing yourself. But thats ok. You are the consumer. I just gave you an example of where YOU CAN.
 
You do know when you say "i cant" that means "i can not"
 
mbonheur said:
But who actually claims that?

And the concerned formulas are most certainly not random, so why even bother that much about this point?
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There a ton of formulas/products that advertise a big serving size and lots of ingredients when none of them are doses properly. Unlike some people, I'm talking about the industry in general, not one particular product.

OP wasn't even about any specific product...
 
Chuck Diesel said:
I can't take 1g of 5 random ingredients and assume that they'll be as effective as 5g of 1 ingredient. That is all.

Ok i just proved different. I think you are confusing yourself. But thats ok. You are the consumer. I just gave you an example of where YOU CAN.
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I said I can't ASSUME that it'll INHERENTLY or NECESSARILY work as you want it to. That doesn't mean it can't be done, just that it isn't an absolute rule or guarantee. You can't cherry pick parts of a sentence and ignore other words that completely alter the meaning/point of the sentence.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
There a ton of formulas/products that advertise a big serving size and lots of ingredients when none of them are doses properly. Unlike some people, I'm talking about the industry in general, not one particular product.

OP wasn't even about any specific product...
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Well, I agree on this. I am just saying that they will always argue that they work synergistically, etc. and the formulas have been worked out, etc. So it is never really random. Anyways, the product by Diesel was chosen in the second post or something as a "bad" example for a prop blend. Hard to not take it personally.

Ultimately, it is always the same story, there are great prop blends (Diesel is among them in my opinion) and ****ty full disclosure products using weak raw materials. And the other way round. Hence, it is difficult to find a general answer to the story.

A fully disclosed bad TA extract is not helping anybody, just as underdosed prop blends.
 
So your saying 1g of 5 ingredients can be effective as 5g of one ingredient?
 
Chuck Diesel said:
So your saying 1g of 5 ingredients can be effective as 5g of one ingredient?
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It is possible, yes. It is possible it can be equally as effective, more effective, or less effective. All I was saying is that you can't ASSUME that it will NECESSARILY work out so it is equally as effective. Remember, I was at no point referring to or talking about your supplements (nor was OP), so I think perhaps you got defensive thinking I was talking about your products. I'm talking about the industry and formulation in general.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
It is possible, yes. It is possible it can be equally as effective, more effective, or less effective. All I was saying is that you can't ASSUME that it will NECESSARILY work out so it is equally as effective. Remember, I was at no point referring to or talking about your supplements (nor was OP), so I think perhaps you got defensive thinking I was talking about your products. I'm talking about the industry and formulation in general.
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I never said or implied you were talking abt my line. The general perception of AM consumers is to throw synergy out the window is what Im saying.
 
mbonheur said:
Well, I agree on this. I am just saying that they will always argue that they work synergistically, etc. and the formulas have been worked out, etc. So it is never really random. Anyways, the product by Diesel was chosen in the second post or something as a "bad" example for a prop blend. Hard to not take it personally.

Ultimately, it is always the same story, there are great prop blends (Diesel is among them in my opinion) and ****ty full disclosure products using weak raw materials. And the other way round. Hence, it is difficult to find a general answer to the story.

A fully disclosed bad TA extract is not helping anybody, just as underdosed prop blends.
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I didn't mention it by name...and with that many ingredients I doubt anyone who know what specific product it was

It's just an example of a product I'd shy away from...no where did I mention if the product would work or not
 
mbonheur said:
Well, I agree on this. I am just saying that they will always argue that they work synergistically, etc. and the formulas have been worked out, etc. So it is never really random. Anyways, the product by Diesel was chosen in the second post or something as a "bad" example for a prop blend. Hard to not take it personally.

Ultimately, it is always the same story, there are great prop blends (Diesel is among them in my opinion) and ****ty full disclosure products using weak raw materials. And the other way round. Hence, it is difficult to find a general answer to the story.

A fully disclosed bad TA extract is not helping anybody, just as underdosed prop blends.
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I didn't mention it by name...and with that many ingredients I doubt anyone would know what specific product it was

It's just an example of a product I'd shy away from...no where did I mention if the product would work or not
 
I can also point out examples of ingredients that are essentially the opposite of synergistic, where one actually reduces the effectiveness of the other. I've seen this in prop blend AND fully disclosed formulas. Most people would have no idea.
 
Young Gotti said:
I didn't mention it by name...and with that many ingredients I doubt anyone who know what specific product it was

It's just an example of a product I'd why away from
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Soon as I saw it I knew it was my product then its like ok wtf. That panel isn't on no website of no AM retailer. So who dug up my sup facts to point out they would not buy my product bc it has a blend when I know for fact Get Diesel makes the best test boosters out.

What is that first product? The glcerol product.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Soon as I saw it I knew it was my product then its like ok wtf. That panel isn't on no website of no AM retailer. So who dug up my sup facts to point out they would not buy my product bc it has a blend when I know for fact Get Diesel makes the best test boosters out.

What is that first product? The glcerol product.
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It doesn't matter what the other product was....it was an example

Dug up? A quick Google search is all I needed
 
Young Gotti said:
It doesn't matter what the other product was....it was an example

Dug up? A quick Google search is all I needed
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Well imma find out since its "top secret" bc its not FDA complaint.
 
Oh look, another prop vs non prob blend argument...for the 435th time.
 
mbonheur said:
Well, nobody ever said that either.

Anyways, full disclosure doesn't say anything about the quality of the used ingredients either, only about their dosage. Especially, stuff like Tongkat Ali varies a lot with regard to quality and dosage.

I tried Alphamax XT not too long ago and personally I got better results with Diesel Hardcore or even Tropinol XP. Totally subjective and results may vary, but I am one of those "regular" guys who judge by results. I like to try things before making a judgement, so full disclosure or prop blend are not really an argument for or against trying it. At least for me.
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With Alphamax XT we have not only listed exact dosages but even been open with the exact extract for example of the TA used, which is 3rd party tested. So with that in mind, if you didn't respond well to it, you know the exact extract and exact dose that apparently didnt work well for you. With prop blends with no specification to the extract used, you really have no idea what worked for you and how much it took to work, which as a company I guess would be a benefit but as for the consumer, the lack of transparency makes it hard to apply that knowledge and experience to future products, cycles etc.
 
Young Gotti said:
Ok? Never said it's top secret...it's just not important to the convo..just a product I'd use over a 30 ingredient prop blend
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Ok well imma put them on blast.
 
Is that High Volume? Looks like it or another company's rendition of high volume.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I like how this thread became so focused on 1-2 products.
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Im focused on the two products bc someone implied the prop blend one isnt worth purchasing by looking at the label when the other label isnt even compliant.

"Haha i know right" is the person who posted the two labels.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Im focused on the two products bc someone implied the prop blend one isnt worth purchasing by looking at the label when the other label isnt even compliant.

"Haha i know right" is the person who posted the two labels.
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What would fda compliant have to do with if one prop blend is laid out better than a kitchen sink list of stuff

If Being uncompliant means they give you more information about what your taking over a complaint list that still leaves questions...then so be it
 
Young Gotti said:
What would fda compliant have to do with if one prop blend is laid out better than a kitchen sink list of stuff

If Being uncompliant means they give you more information about what your taking over a complaint list that still leaves questions...then so be it
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The cfr that governs labels is layed out in a way to actually help consumers know what they are getting and how much. Its over ur head homie. Times like this I wish ppl like PA was still on AM...
 
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