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Full disclosure vs Prop Blend

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Then why doesn't your labels help the consumer know?

My labels are complient and follow the rules. That lets the consumer know get diesel follows standards across the board. Im not saying this other companies dont but a fully disclosed non-compliant label is useless. This other label has a prob blend anyway so this doesnt totally apply to the topic. You posted 2 prob blend labels.
 
My labels are complient and follow the rules. That lets the consumer know get diesel follows standards across the board. Im not saying this other companies dont but a fully disclosed non-compliant label is useless. This other label has a prob blend anyway so this doesnt totally apply to the topic. You posted 2 prob blend labels.

And explained why one is better than the other...did you miss that part?

My original post starts with I don't necessary mind prop blends
 
The teacher in me wants to correct all of the grammar and spelling mistakes in this thread. I can't believe grown people are using double negatives!!
 
And explained one one is better than the other...did you miss that part?

My original post starts with I don't necessary mind prop blends

Right then goes on to say you would purchase a non compliant semi prob blend over a compliant prob blend bc it exceeds your personal limit of ingredients allowed in a prob blend. Ok. Gotcha. Have a good weekend guys.
 
Right then goes on to say you would purchase a non compliant semi prob blend over a compliant prob blend bc it exceeds your personal limit of ingredients allowed in a prob blend. Ok. Gotcha. Have a good weekend guys.

Yeah? Do I not have that choice as a consumer to make educated decisions on products I put into my own body?

Sorry but I'd rather put my money towards products I feel would work based on my own research vs ones that look like anyone could of thrown them together

The compliant arguement is a weak attempt
 
I find it funny how a CEO, who invests in his company using his own money, is being told how things should be done from those with no vested interest in the companies they rep for.

I can see the value of both sides of the coin, but telling someone is wrong when it's their money and livelihood on the line and yours isnt, is kinda funny.

At the end of the day, I'll shy away from products I know to shy away from, but unless it's your business at stake, its hard telling someone to go full disclosure just because you as a non-consumer prefer it
 
I find it funny how a CEO, who invests in his company using his own money, is being told how things should be done from those with no vested interest in the companies they rep for.

I can see the value of both sides of the coin, but telling someone is wrong when it's their money and livelihood on the line and yours isnt, is kinda funny.

No one is telling anyone how to run a business....but telling people not to critique a company that you don't own is absurd....haha if that was the case then a lot of companies wouldn't make improvements because they never took the customers opinions into account

This is customers talking about what they like vs what they don't like....if a company is too strong headed to not listen it's up to them...but to argue back is just laughable

I guess yelp is a waste even though it's probably helped thousands of companies better treat their customers
 
The cfr that governs labels is layed out in a way to actually help consumers know what they are getting and how much. Its over ur head homie. Times like this I wish ppl like PA was still on AM...

What's the regulation number? XX CFR XXX.XX.
 
Chuck, I fully understand what you are saying about label compliance but alot of it is "slight of hand".

We know when there is a prop blend the most abundant ingredient has to be listed first, second most abundant next etc etc BUT if you put a () parenthesis around the blend that theory goes out the window. As long as the total amount of all the ingredients equals the label they are in compliance. Protein powders are the biggest offenders of this.

On one hand I am glad more companies are being caught for mislabeling, amino spiking etc but it is also sad that this is happening.
 
As an average guy (non rep, not employed by a company that has anything to do with the supplement business), I find this type of thread to be a bit disingenuous. We're talking about OTC supplements here. None of these are going to have immediate effects, whether it's a proprietary blend or a fully disclosed blend. People like me (who the entire supplement industry base a huge amount of their sales on) purchase products based on either prior experience or product reviews. Most of the consumers of supplements aren't as intelligent in regards to the ingredients listed in a product as the reps are (but not always) so I don't think the proprietary blend issue is really that much of an issue. I buy (insert product of your choice here) because I feel better when I use it. I'm not a professional body builder. I'm not going to be competing in any type of competition. My diet isn't always 100%. My workouts aren't always 100%. I'm 53, I have a job that comes with some stress, I'm in relatively good shape and I have some disposable income. I base my buying decisions based on feelings and purely anecdotal evidence. I like High Volume and Max Reps because I feel like they work. I like Jack3d and Mesomorph because of how I feel when I take them. I'm currently running a couple bottles of AlphaMax XT and I'm enjoying it, but will probably be trying Testify or DPT V3 next, just to see how it goes. I'm not a good "test subject" because nothing in my life is ever 100%. I think that maybe some of the reps posting here kind of forgot who buys the majority of the products they rep for. Just average guys with some disposable income to spend on products that they "feel" are helping them to achieve their goals. These pi**ing matches between reps don't do anybody any favors.

Having said all that, I do feel that Young Gotti posted that label to purposefully call out Diesel products. Not sure why, but whatever. All IMHO, of course. As a guy who sometimes buys stuff based on how a rep behaves online.
 
As an average guy (non rep, not employed by a company that has anything to do with the supplement business), I find this type of thread to be a bit disingenuous. We're talking about OTC supplements here. None of these are going to have immediate effects, whether it's a proprietary blend or a fully disclosed blend. People like me (who the entire supplement industry base a huge amount of their sales on) purchase products based on either prior experience or product reviews. Most of the consumers of supplements aren't as intelligent in regards to the ingredients listed in a product as the reps are (but not always) so I don't think the proprietary blend issue is really that much of an issue. I buy (insert product of your choice here) because I feel better when I use it. I'm not a professional body builder. I'm not going to be competing in any type of competition. My diet isn't always 100%. My workouts aren't always 100%. I'm 53, I have a job that comes with some stress, I'm in relatively good shape and I have some disposable income. I base my buying decisions based on feelings and purely anecdotal evidence. I like High Volume and Max Reps because I feel like they work. I like Jack3d and Mesomorph because of how I feel when I take them. I'm currently running a couple bottles of AlphaMax XT and I'm enjoying it, but will probably be trying Testify or DPT V3 next, just to see how it goes. I'm not a good "test subject" because nothing in my life is ever 100%. I think that maybe some of the reps posting here kind of forgot who buys the majority of the products they rep for. Just average guys with some disposable income to spend on products that they "feel" are helping them to achieve their goals. These pi**ing matches between reps don't do anybody any favors.

Having said all that, I do feel that Young Gotti posted that label to purposefully call out Diesel products. Not sure why, but whatever. All IMHO, of course. As a guy who sometimes buys stuff based on how a rep behaves online.

I think this is probably the smartest reply in this thread. Regardless of prop or full disclosure label, if you are happy with a product and making the necessary strides, weight loss/ gain, increased endurance/reps etc that is all that matters.
 
As an average guy (non rep, not employed by a company that has anything to do with the supplement business), I find this type of thread to be a bit disingenuous. We're talking about OTC supplements here. None of these are going to have immediate effects, whether it's a proprietary blend or a fully disclosed blend. People like me (who the entire supplement industry base a huge amount of their sales on) purchase products based on either prior experience or product reviews. Most of the consumers of supplements aren't as intelligent in regards to the ingredients listed in a product as the reps are (but not always) so I don't think the proprietary blend issue is really that much of an issue. I buy (insert product of your choice here) because I feel better when I use it. I'm not a professional body builder. I'm not going to be competing in any type of competition. My diet isn't always 100%. My workouts aren't always 100%. I'm 53, I have a job that comes with some stress, I'm in relatively good shape and I have some disposable income. I base my buying decisions based on feelings and purely anecdotal evidence. I like High Volume and Max Reps because I feel like they work. I like Jack3d and Mesomorph because of how I feel when I take them. I'm currently running a couple bottles of AlphaMax XT and I'm enjoying it, but will probably be trying Testify or DPT V3 next, just to see how it goes. I'm not a good "test subject" because nothing in my life is ever 100%. I think that maybe some of the reps posting here kind of forgot who buys the majority of the products they rep for. Just average guys with some disposable income to spend on products that they "feel" are helping them to achieve their goals. These pi**ing matches between reps don't do anybody any favors.

Having said all that, I do feel that Young Gotti posted that label to purposefully call out Diesel products. Not sure why, but whatever. All IMHO, of course. As a guy who sometimes buys stuff based on how a rep behaves online.

Nope...just knew it had a million ingredients so it fit the example....I have nothing against diesel personally....I wouldn't buy it but I never said it didn't deliver

But don't forget. All reps were or still are consumers too....I know when I started working out I wanted to know what I was taking so I researched the ingredients....the more informed you are the better, same as buying a car (on a much lower level) but I'm not going to show up at a dealership and just buy the first car I see....I want to see if it has what I want, the reviews, the price
 
As an average guy (non rep, not employed by a company that has anything to do with the supplement business), I find this type of thread to be a bit disingenuous. We're talking about OTC supplements here. None of these are going to have immediate effects, whether it's a proprietary blend or a fully disclosed blend. People like me (who the entire supplement industry base a huge amount of their sales on) purchase products based on either prior experience or product reviews. Most of the consumers of supplements aren't as intelligent in regards to the ingredients listed in a product as the reps are (but not always) so I don't think the proprietary blend issue is really that much of an issue. I buy (insert product of your choice here) because I feel better when I use it. I'm not a professional body builder. I'm not going to be competing in any type of competition. My diet isn't always 100%. My workouts aren't always 100%. I'm 53, I have a job that comes with some stress, I'm in relatively good shape and I have some disposable income. I base my buying decisions based on feelings and purely anecdotal evidence. I like High Volume and Max Reps because I feel like they work. I like Jack3d and Mesomorph because of how I feel when I take them. I'm currently running a couple bottles of AlphaMax XT and I'm enjoying it, but will probably be trying Testify or DPT V3 next, just to see how it goes. I'm not a good "test subject" because nothing in my life is ever 100%. I think that maybe some of the reps posting here kind of forgot who buys the majority of the products they rep for. Just average guys with some disposable income to spend on products that they "feel" are helping them to achieve their goals. These pi**ing matches between reps don't do anybody any favors.

Having said all that, I do feel that Young Gotti posted that label to purposefully call out Diesel products. Not sure why, but whatever. All IMHO, of course. As a guy who sometimes buys stuff based on how a rep behaves online.

This is a good reply. And it bears repeating that the thread is discussing prop blends vs full disclosure, not whether a product is effective. Because the two aren't related.
 
No one is serious about training and the results supplements can provide if they are not buying products based on results versus ruling out products because a blend has "too many ingredients."

All consumers are different and there are several target markets.

Like I said my Dieselade bcaas have Health Canada approval so the new label w the NPN number will be full disclosure...same product as prop blend one.
 
No one is serious about training and the results supplements can provide if they are not buying products based on results versus ruling out products because a blend has "too many ingredients."

All consumers are different and there are several target markets.

Ignorance
 
Are you serious? Ask the company you rep for.

The company I rep for is irrelevant. Stop deflecting. You said the label wasn't compliant and when asked to prove it you want someone else to do it for you?

I'll make it easy for you, what section of 21 CFR 101 makes the posted label compliant? Surely you can answer this one question directly?
 
Ignorance

Ignorance? Have a MBA and have been in this industry for 14 yrs. What do you have or have done related to the supplement industry or business?
 
My labels are complient and follow the rules. That lets the consumer know get diesel follows standards across the board. Im not saying this other companies dont but a fully disclosed non-compliant label is useless. This other label has a prob blend anyway so this doesnt totally apply to the topic. You posted 2 prob blend labels.

Im curious to what you think is non compliant about the other label?
 
Im curious to what you think is non conpliant about the other label?

I think thats a PES label and per admin company owners cannont comment on board sponsor products in a negative way. So I don't have a comment besides its not compliant IMO.
 
I think thats a PES label and per admin company owners cannont comment on board sponsor products in a negative way. So I don't have a comment besides its not compliant IMO.

Stating why a label may not be compliant is not bashing another product, it would be stating fact if it were true so i think your good to go!

I think it would be worse to state someones label is not compliant with no explanation vs stating facts why its not.
 
All this back and forth is for what? Im not trying to change anyones buying patterns. Its your money. But anyone who says they will buy my Raw Test over my Diesel Test Procycle because Raw Test has a prop blend of only about 6 ingredients is slow. Procycyle is 2x as effective as Raw Test and thats an example of 2 of my own products. When any of you guys with so much to say are actually in the industry.... (versus pubmed/google/AM) supplement gurus....come holla at me.
 
All this back and forth is for what? Im not trying to change anyones buying patterns. Its your money. But anyone who says they will buy my Raw Test over my Diesel Test Procycle because Raw Test has a prop blend of only about 6 ingredients is slow. Procycyle is 2x as effective as Raw Test and thats an example of 2 of my own products. When any of you guys with so much to say are actually in the industry.... (versus pubmed/google/AM) supplement gurus....come holla at me.

That has Nothing to do with anything....didn't know our passion had to be to own a supplement company to have a say

Shut down AM!....per Chuck no one's opinions matter unless you own a company
 
I really dont care much to the entire thread but was simply wondering what made that label non compliant as thats quite a negative claim, so simply wondering what the basis is to that claim. No back and forth, just a simple question to something youve stated numerous times.

Holla Holla
 
No one is serious about training and the results supplements can provide if they are not buying products based on results versus ruling out products because a blend has "too many ingredients."

All consumers are different and there are several target markets.

I think YG's post was intended to point out which products he would buy based on label layout alone, not whether the product in question is effective or not.

It is a valid point that too many ingredients is not a bad thing, but it can be if the total blend is also quite small.

Meh.

This thread will never have a good ending, lol.
 
I think YG's post was intended to point out which products he would buy based on label layout alone, not whether the product in question is effective or not.

It is a valid point that too many ingredients is not a bad thing, but it can be if the total blend is also quite small.

Meh.

This thread will never have a good ending, lol.

Bingo!
 
I really dont care much to the entire thread but was simply wondering what made that label non compliant as thats quite a negative claim, so simply wondering what the basis is to that claim. No back and forth, just a simple question to something youve stated numerous times.

Holla Holla

Im saying I cant state whats wrong w it until I know who label it is. Im saying people back and forth w me about industry topics and not in the industry is a waste of my time. Not you guy's time. Thats like arguing w admin back and forth about running a message board and u only a member.

There's an entire section on the use of Botanical names and Common names in the CFR. Start there.
 
Im saying I cant state whats wrong w it until I know who label it is. Im saying people back and forth w me about industry topics and not in the industry is a waste of my time. Not you guy's time. Thats like arguing w admin back and forth about running a message board and u only a member.

What does the brand behind it matter .....its either right or wrong

I think there might be a suggestions thread around here somewhere
 
What the hell does the brand behind it matter .....its either right or erong

What did I say a million times. Im a board sponsor. I am not allowed to make a negative comment about another board sponsor's product. Didnt you read that??
 
Im saying I cant state whats wrong w it until I know who label it is. Im saying people back and forth w me about industry topics and not in the industry is a waste of my time. Not you guy's time. Thats like arguing w admin back and forth about running a message board and u only a member.

There's an entire section on the use of Botanical names and Common names in the CFR. Start there.

Im saying by saying "this label is non compliant" with no explanation is bashing a competitors product. Saying "this label should state xyz or change this/that per FDA compliance" would be stating facts..

Saying someones label is non compliant with no explanation is bashing the brand. Stating why a label is non compliant is fact.
 
What did I say a million times. Im a board sponsor. I am not allowed to make a negative comment about another board sponsor's product. Didnt you read that??

If u don't even know what the product is or haven't used it...your not bashing the product.....only the label

And you've already attempted to bash it
 
What did I say a million times. Im a board sponsor. I am not allowed to make a negative comment about another board sponsor's product. Didnt you read that??

How is saying "that label is not compliant [with no proof]" not considered making a negative comment about another sponsor's product but providing proof to back up your assertion is considered making a negative comment?
 
How is saying "that label is not compliant [with no proof]" not considered making a negative comment about another sponsor's product but providing proof to back up your assertion is considered making a negative comment?
Im saying by saying "this label is non compliant" with no explanation is bashing a competitors product. Saying "this label should state xyz or change this/that per FDA compliance" would be stating facts...
These actually make sense. He already said that there's something wrong with it; without explaining it, it seems more likely that it can be misconstrued as bashing a competitors product instead of pointing out a mistake on a label. I think most of us know what the product in question is anyway. Regardless, hasn't the statement already been made?
 
Where is the word "bash" coming from? Im telling u it cant be done. The post will get deleted anyway. Trust me. Let it go.
 
This is a good reply. And it bears repeating that the thread is discussing prop blends vs full disclosure, not whether a product is effective. Because the two aren't related.

As usual, you're correct. My rather long winded reply should have been shortened up to "I don't think prop blends are necessarily bad", but I got caught up in the moment.
 
I'll answer for you: nothing on that label violates 21 CFR 101. If something did violate, feel free to correct me with specifics not a conclusory statement. Give the section or maybe a sentence about what's wrong with it.
 
These actually make sense. He already said that there's something wrong with it; without explaining it, it seems more likely that it can be misconstrued as bashing a competitors product instead of pointing out a mistake on a label. I think most of us know what the product in question is anyway. Regardless, hasn't the statement already been made?

I have no idea what product it is. I saw the label and the first thing that poped in my head I wrote. Then after researching I found out it might be a sponsors product. So I stopped right there. Everyone got a lot to say but no one knows what makes a label complaint. You guys never heard of that CFR b4 today and on top of that no one is saying what product it is. So lets start there. What product is it?
 
I have no idea what product it is. I saw the label and the first thing that poped in my head I wrote. Then after researching I found out it might be a sponsors product. So I stopped right there. Everyone got a lot to say but no one knows what makes a label complaint. You guys never heard of that CFR b4 today and on top of that no one is saying what product it is. So lets start there. What product is it?

What product it is is not important...I said that.....same reason why I didn't call out your product

It's to show two types of prop blends, if product names were important it would of been in my first post
 
Then why bring it up in the first place?

Because its ironic someone will say I would buy this product over this other product and from someone in the industry...the first panel posted isn't even complaint in my opion.

Heres something. When you see:

Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 1000 IU 250%

How much Vit D is in this fully disclosed statement? Post it. Dont google it. Dont ask someone who's actually in the industry. You post the answer.
 
What product it is is not important...

It is important in the "say whats wrong now" arguement bc if its a board sponsor product...the post will get deleted and this thread will be closed.
 
It is important in the "say whats wrong now" arguement bc if its a board sponsor product...the post will get deleted and this thread will be closed.

You've already said negative (bashed) the label so it's too late for all of that now...regardless if you know what supplement it is or not
 
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