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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

sanmarino said:
No specific reason. I should have let it completely out of the cycle or take it more regularly. It's stupid.
Bunshichi: hard to say. As cycle, RAD-140 was definitely my favourite. But when the YK-11 hit during the workout... That was insane.
But if I have to choose: I would go for the RAD-140.
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Great overall write up :) So what are your thoughts on ostarine during PCT? Because you used it I assume that you don't believe in it being suppressive at even lower doses. And did you make any experiences yourself? I am also at the end of my cycle. And PCT starts within a week. I have some ostarine here. But haven't thought about using it in my PCT.
Regards :) and keep up the good work.
 
sanmarino said:
No specific reason. I should have let it completely out of the cycle or take it more regularly. It's stupid.
Bunshichi: hard to say. As cycle, RAD-140 was definitely my favourite. But when the YK-11 hit during the workout... That was insane.
But if I have to choose: I would go for the RAD-140.
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What are your thoughts in combining osta and lgd? I'm doing it now and like it, but still curious to your thoughts.
 
Vioros said:
Great overall write up :) So what are your thoughts on ostarine during PCT? Because you used it I assume that you don't believe in it being suppressive at even lower doses. And did you make any experiences yourself? I am also at the end of my cycle. And PCT starts within a week. I have some ostarine here. But haven't thought about using it in my PCT.
Regards :) and keep up the good work.
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Osta is proven as suppressive at doses of 3mg even, not a good idea for pct at all.
 
Im sorry if im not allowed to do this im new here.
Im Michél, 19 years from germany, and im very interested in sarms.
I have tryed allready LGD-4033 and Ostarine but these were fakestuff i think or underdosed.
Nutrition and Training was on point, so i dont think it was my fault.
Now i want to give it a chance again, but dont want to waste my money again, so i need ur help if it's possible.
Is there a good source to buy Sarms in Europe? Im interested in MK667,YK-11 and RAD140 or LGD4033
Would be great if someone can give me a tip! U can also PM me if u want.
Thanks guys! Wish u all the best!

Sorry if my english isn't that good. :D

Greetz
 
Superbol said:
Im sorry if im not allowed to do this im new here.
Im Michél, 19 years from germany, and im very interested in sarms.
I have tryed allready LGD-4033 and Ostarine but these were fakestuff i think or underdosed.
Nutrition and Training was on point, so i dont think it was my fault.
Now i want to give it a chance again, but dont want to waste my money again, so i need ur help if it's possible.
Is there a good source to buy Sarms in Europe? Im interested in MK667,YK-11 and RAD140 or LGD4033
Would be great if someone can give me a tip! U can also PM me if u want.
Thanks guys! Wish u all the best!

Sorry if my english isn't that good. :D

Greetz
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You're a little young to be using anabolics...
 
yates84 said:
You're a little young to be using anabolics...
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I know and you're absolutely right, it's good there are people like you warning younger people to do this but i've made the decision by myself.
I have already done this, and will to it again. I know there are risks and the long term damages are not known.
But i will take the risk. Some people are doing extreme sports or going to the army, and i will try sarms to live my dream.
Btw i know taking YK-11 is a dumb decision, im not sure about it. Maybe i'll switch the stack to LGD,RAD and MK667 (i know in my age it doesnt make much sense to take it but i'll try it because of my insomnia and blemished skin and anyway it can increase the IGF levels up to 90% in my age if im right).
And after this stack i'll end it, and keep going the "natural way".
 
Superbol said:
I know and you're absolutely right, it's good there are people like you warning younger people to do this but i've made the decision by myself.
I have already done this, and will to it again. I know there are risks and the long term damages are not known.
But i will take the risk. Some people are doing extreme sports or going to the army, and i will try sarms to live my dream.
Btw i know taking YK-11 is a dumb decision, im not sure about it. Maybe i'll switch the stack to LGD,RAD and MK667 (i know in my age it doesnt make much sense to take it but i'll try it because of my insomnia and blemished skin and anyway it can increase the IGF levels up to 90% in my age if im right).
And after this stack i'll end it, and keep going the "natural way".
Click to expand...

Good luck.
 
Superbol said:
I know and you're absolutely right, it's good there are people like you warning younger people to do this but i've made the decision by myself.
I have already done this, and will to it again. I know there are risks and the long term damages are not known.
But i will take the risk. Some people are doing extreme sports or going to the army, and i will try sarms to live my dream.
Btw i know taking YK-11 is a dumb decision, im not sure about it. Maybe i'll switch the stack to LGD,RAD and MK667 (i know in my age it doesnt make much sense to take it but i'll try it because of my insomnia and blemished skin and anyway it can increase the IGF levels up to 90% in my age if im right).
And after this stack i'll end it, and keep going the "natural way".
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I don't get it man. You have a free ride. Your hormones are the highest they will ever get naturally. All u have to do is train.hard.and eat bro. I've seen kids that are consistent gain like crazy with nothing more than a bottle of whey. Like Yates said GL with that. And to your just this cycle and natural after... lol
 
EMPIREMIND said:
I don't get it man. You have a free ride. Your hormones are the highest they will ever get naturally. All u have to do is train.hard.and eat bro. I've seen kids that are consistent gain like crazy with nothing more than a bottle of whey. Like Yates said GL with that. And to your just this cycle and natural after... lol
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There is NEVER just the one cycle and then back to natty. Stuff gets you hooked
 
EMPIREMIND said:
I don't get it man. You have a free ride. Your hormones are the highest they will ever get naturally. All u have to do is train.hard.and eat bro. I've seen kids that are consistent gain like crazy with nothing more than a bottle of whey. Like Yates said GL with that. And to your just this cycle and natural after... lol
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cos he is young and dumb and he will cry like a lil bish when he have a limp dick. or whatever the outcome may be :)
 
Vioros said:
Great overall write up :) So what are your thoughts on ostarine during PCT? Because you used it I assume that you don't believe in it being suppressive at even lower doses. And did you make any experiences yourself? I am also at the end of my cycle. And PCT starts within a week. I have some ostarine here. But haven't thought about using it in my PCT.
Regards :) and keep up the good work.
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In another cycle I made, the PCT was the same (10mg/ed Ostarine + 20mg/ed Tamoxifen). The results made four weeks after the PCT showed, that the hormones were in mid-range again and so the HPTA. It seems (in my case) that the improvement via Tamoxifene was more dominant than Ostarine with its suppression on the HPTA.
But if you want to go safe: only use SERM without any other substancen, which may decrease the HPTA status.
GreenMachineX Ostaine and LGD-4033 can be combined, why not? The anabolic factor will increase, while the androgenic will remain on LGD-4033 basis. Interesting combination for increase in muscle mass. Don't expect an enourmous increase in strenght :)
Superbol Ich würde dir vom SARM-Missbrauch dringendst abraten, yates84 liegt damit richtig. Auch EMPIREMIND liegt goldrichtig und zeigt dir klar auf, dass es mit deinem jetztigen Stand nicht wirklich Sinn macht. Ich kann dich aber gut verstehen, auch wenn es "deine" Entscheidung ist. Wir können dir hier mit der Erfahrung aushelfen und zeigen, dass du mindestens noch ein paar Jahre abwarten solltest. Niemand will dir was böses, wenn du stoffen willst, dann stoffe halt. Du wirst dir jedoch mit SARM das Potenzial zerstören, da diese nicht annähernd so stark sind wie AAS, du aber ein extremes Feuerwerk an massiven Hormonüberschüttungen erlebst. Davon kannst du noch locker sechs Jahre profitieren.
Denk gut darüber nach, Superbol ;) Nochmals, niemand will dir deine "Gainzzz" streitig machen. Geh den smarten Weg.
 
sanmarino said:
GreenMachineX Ostaine and LGD-4033 can be combined, why not? The anabolic factor will increase, while the androgenic will remain on LGD-4033 basis. Interesting combination for increase in muscle mass. Don't expect an enourmous increase in strenght :)
l
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That's what I figured. Osta seems to reduce fat better for me than lgd, but lgd adds muscle more, so for a recomp, it seems to work great combined.
 
Superbol Ich würde dir vom SARM-Missbrauch dringendst abraten, yates84 liegt damit richtig. Auch EMPIREMIND liegt goldrichtig und zeigt dir klar auf, dass es mit deinem jetztigen Stand nicht wirklich Sinn macht. Ich kann dich aber gut verstehen, auch wenn es "deine" Entscheidung ist. Wir können dir hier mit der Erfahrung aushelfen und zeigen, dass du mindestens noch ein paar Jahre abwarten solltest. Niemand will dir was böses, wenn du stoffen willst, dann stoffe halt. Du wirst dir jedoch mit SARM das Potenzial zerstören, da diese nicht annähernd so stark sind wie AAS, du aber ein extremes Feuerwerk an massiven Hormonüberschüttungen erlebst. Davon kannst du noch locker sechs Jahre profitieren.
Denk gut darüber nach, Superbol ;) Nochmals, niemand will dir deine "Gainzzz" streitig machen. Geh den smarten Weg.
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Ich zweifle auch garnicht an, dass die User hier unrecht haben, ich selbst weiß auch das es ein Fehler ist.
Nur ist es bei mir so das ich mittlerweile seit 2 1/2 Jahren trainiere, und kaum Fortschritte gemacht habe, jedenfalls nicht die die ich erwartet habe.
Ich habe mit 61 KG angefangen zu trainieren und bin jetzt bei 77KG (mag vielleicht garnicht so schlecht klingen, aber ich bin definitiv mit meinem Körper nicht zufrieden) mit ca. 13-15% Körperfett, also viel gerissen habe ich nicht, und das obwohl meine Ernährung zu 90% onpoint war, und das Training auch, habe mich wirklich damit intensiv beschäftigt und kann dir versichern das es daran nicht liegt.
Und wenn man jetzt bedenkt das die ersten Jahre die sind, indenen man am meisten aufbaut, sehe ich nicht gerade optimistisch in die Zukunft.
Der Sport ist mir nunmal sehr wichtig, und ich würde später auch gerne mal auf die Bühne gehen, deswegen demotiviert mich das alles sehr.

Ich bin derzeit noch am überlegen, was und ob ich es überhaupt noch mache. Aber dank euch hab ich mich aufjedenfall schonmal von dem Gedanken YK-11 auszuprobieren verabschiedet, das ganze ist mir dann doch zu riskant, bei Rad-140 das gleiche.
Außerdem habe ich ja wie gesagt schon 1-2 Sarm Kuren hinter mir, und weiß nicht inwiefern das mir schon geschadet hat, gehe aber wie gesagt davon aus das es unterdosiert war.
Naja, wir werden sehen, ich werde aufjedenfall noch 1-2 Nächte darüber schlafen. :)
 
Hello all, I am a 40years old currently on TRT. Heard LGD 4033 is a better option. I am blown away by all the info getting thrown at me. I am looking for a body recomp/fat loss. Currently I am 6'1" 255lbs. I saw Yates original post. I have the LGD but not sure what to take with it? Another fella gave me some suggestions so I am currently looking on Olympus website. I don't understand all the abbreviations. So if you respond, please spell out your words . Thanks in advance
 
So, I just placed an order for the atomicare pro, the super pct from Olympus labs, then the liquid stane and liquid clomi from cem products. Looks like I am ready for my first cycle of LGD 4033. Any suggestions?
 
Superbol said:
Ich zweifle auch garnicht an, dass die User hier unrecht haben, ich selbst weiß auch das es ein Fehler ist.
Nur ist es bei mir so das ich mittlerweile seit 2 1/2 Jahren trainiere, und kaum Fortschritte gemacht habe, jedenfalls nicht die die ich erwartet habe.
Ich habe mit 61 KG angefangen zu trainieren und bin jetzt bei 77KG (mag vielleicht garnicht so schlecht klingen, aber ich bin definitiv mit meinem Körper nicht zufrieden) mit ca. 13-15% Körperfett, also viel gerissen habe ich nicht, und das obwohl meine Ernährung zu 90% onpoint war, und das Training auch, habe mich wirklich damit intensiv beschäftigt und kann dir versichern das es daran nicht liegt.
Und wenn man jetzt bedenkt das die ersten Jahre die sind, indenen man am meisten aufbaut, sehe ich nicht gerade optimistisch in die Zukunft.
Der Sport ist mir nunmal sehr wichtig, und ich würde später auch gerne mal auf die Bühne gehen, deswegen demotiviert mich das alles sehr.

Ich bin derzeit noch am überlegen, was und ob ich es überhaupt noch mache. Aber dank euch hab ich mich aufjedenfall schonmal von dem Gedanken YK-11 auszuprobieren verabschiedet, das ganze ist mir dann doch zu riskant, bei Rad-140 das gleiche.
Außerdem habe ich ja wie gesagt schon 1-2 Sarm Kuren hinter mir, und weiß nicht inwiefern das mir schon geschadet hat, gehe aber wie gesagt davon aus das es unterdosiert war.
Naja, wir werden sehen, ich werde aufjedenfall noch 1-2 Nächte darüber schlafen. :)
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Ja, schlaf mal drüber. Wenn du sagst, dass du Wettkampfambitionen hast, werden dich SARM nicht weit bringen. Bis zu einem Level gewiss, doch danach ist schluss. Weshalb? SARM sind zwar konzipiert worden, eine ähnliche Wirkung wie AAS zu erreichen bei einem viel tieferen Nebenwirkungsprofil. Allerdings ist es ganz einfach so, dass SARM in ihrer Wirkung aber auch nicht wirklich an AAS herankommen.

AAS sind sozusagen noch immer die "Voraussetzung" und effektiv das, was dich langfristig weiterbringen wird. Es macht keinen Sinn, ein paar SARM Kuren zu machen wenn du weisst, dass du ohnehin früher oder später zum harten Geschütz greifen musst. Wieso die ganzen unbekannten, langfristigen NW mit schon 19 Jahren in Kauf nehmen? Eigentlich für nichts.

Kann dir nur dazu raten: Wenn du schon mit deinem jungen Alter und WK-Ambitionen stoffen willst, dann mach das mit klassischen Steroiden. Zunächst mit Testosteron only und sehen, wie du darauf ansprichst. Ja nicht von Anfang an stacken, sonst verbaust du dir alles!

Aber SARM sind bei deinen Zielen nicht wirklich das, was du suchst, das ist eigentlich ziemlich klar.
 
DeBoe40 said:
Hello all, I am a 40years old currently on TRT. Heard LGD 4033 is a better option. I am blown away by all the info getting thrown at me. I am looking for a body recomp/fat loss. Currently I am 6'1" 255lbs. I saw Yates original post. I have the LGD but not sure what to take with it? Another fella gave me some suggestions so I am currently looking on Olympus website. I don't understand all the abbreviations. So if you respond, please spell out your words . Thanks in advance
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Hi
What do you mean by "I don't know what to take with"? Why not starting with only one compounf instead of a stack right away?

A very interesting alternative would be RAD-140, which is "taillred" for "elderly" ( :D ) TRT-patients. Biggest disadvantage: beside the used dosage in rodents, the knowledge about its neuro-influence and the benefit of RAD-140 + Testosterone, there is not much info about it.
What could be the long term (side) effects, what are the optimal dosages for humans, has it any teratogenic/mutagenic/zytotoxic aspects ect. etc.

LGD-4033 in comparison is better researched, but there are similar questions like above.
 
DeBoe40 said:
Hello all, I am a 40years old currently on TRT. Heard LGD 4033 is a better option. I am blown away by all the info getting thrown at me. I am looking for a body recomp/fat loss. Currently I am 6'1" 255lbs. I saw Yates original post. I have the LGD but not sure what to take with it? Another fella gave me some suggestions so I am currently looking on Olympus website. I don't understand all the abbreviations. So if you respond, please spell out your words . Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

You heard LGD is a better option than what, TRT? LGD is not a suitable replacement for TRT right now. There is no need to stack it with anything else, assuming you are staying on TRT. LGD would be a nice addition to a TRT dose of Test. Your ability to cut fat and recomp will depend on your diet and macros. Assuming you are staying on TRT and adding in LGD, a nice mild addition would be Dermacrine. Dermacrine is a transdrmal DHEA/Pregnenolone product that also has some anti-estrogen properties (although they are mild). DHEA has often been added in with TRT patients for a nice feel-good effect. If staying on TRT though, Dermacrine is probably not necessary but could be a solid addition.

DeBoe40 said:
So, I just placed an order for the atomicare pro, the super pct from Olympus labs, then the liquid stane and liquid clomi from cem products. Looks like I am ready for my first cycle of LGD 4033. Any suggestions?
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Arimicare Pro is a nice addition to a cycle for overall health benefits. It's always good to have exemestane on hand when you play with your hormones. Are you staying on TRT or dropping it? If you plan to stay on TRT, Clomid is not needed to re-start your HPTA as it is already surpressed from TRT. You could use the SuperPCT as part of a "PCT" for overall health benefits.
 
Planning on staying on the TRT. Ben Greenfield in a podcast mentioned that LGD 4033 is a better option than TRT. So I am planning on doing what Yates outlined in original post that started this thread. So I take everything once a day first thing in the morning?
 
DeBoe40 said:
Planning on staying on the TRT. Ben Greenfield in a podcast mentioned that LGD 4033 is a better option than TRT. So I am planning on doing what Yates outlined in original post that started this thread. So I take everything once a day first thing in the morning?
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I completely disagree with Ben Greenfield on that point. There has not been enough research done on LGD to say that it can replace Testosterone. There are some similarities in what they do in the body, but there is too much we don't know about this drug (LGD). Not to mention the fact that some people suffer horrible lethargy from running LGD alone, without using something for a "test base". He's certainly entitled to his opinion, though.

You can take the LGD once per day, or twice per day if you are taking more than one cap. I prefer split dosing (am/pm) for LGD and all of the other SARMs as well. It's entirely up to you which way you do it.

Split the Arimicare Pro into morning and evening doses. The same would apply to Super PCT as well.

If you are staying on TRT, clomid is completely unnecessary. Clomid is used by bodybuilders to restart their natural production of Testosterone after a cycle. This is called PCT or post cycle therapy. Since you are staying on TRT, Clomid will not restart your HPTA in this case. A better option would be for you to get Raloxifene or Nolvadex for on-cycle protection against gyno. It would only be used if absolutely necessary.
 
Holy cow, I am at a loss . So, I plan on doing 2mg of LGD and 4 capsules of ar1mjcare pro morning and night for 6 weeks. Then I will take the super pct morning and night for 3 weeks. All the while still taking my TRT?
 
A better option would be for you to get Raloxifene or Nolvadex for on-cycle protection against gyno. It would only be used if absolutely necessary.[/QUOTE]

Where do I get this and how will I know if I need it? Thanks
 
DeBoe40 said:
Holy cow, I am at a loss . So, I plan on doing 2mg of LGD and 4 capsules of ar1mjcare pro morning and night for 6 weeks. Then I will take the super pct morning and night for 3 weeks. All the while still taking my TRT?
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Yes, maintain your normal TRT dose and schedule. Yes to the Arimicare Pro. Yes to the Super PCT but I believe the bottle will last you 30 days.

As far as the LGD dose, I'm not going to tell you to take more but 2mg is a really low dose. I wouldn't recommend anybody to take less than 4mg for bodybuilding or short-term physique-changing purposes. I took between 8-12mg everyday for my last LGD cycle and the gains were great with absolutely no side-effects that I could see. Some have even taken up to 16+mg of it everyday. I think 8mg is a nice dose that will give quality gains in 6 weeks.

What brand are you using that you can dose 2mg? I'm guessing it's a liquid (RC)?

As far as the Ralox or Nolva goes, you would get it at the same place you got your Clomid and Stane. Check their web-site. They do have it.

You would use it sparingly if you start to get pain behind one of your nipples or if a lump starts to form. I would low-dose the SERM (Ralox or Nolva) with a low dose of the Stane. If you have no signs of gyno on TRT, you will probably be fine with the addition of a small amount of LGD. It's always a good idea to have ancillaries on hand just incase.
 
I think I misread your post. I guess you were saying you were going to start with 2mg twice per day for a total of 4mg per day. That's a solid place to start for a beginner. Don't be afraid to bump up to 6 or 8mg if you are experiencing no negative sides and are looking for better results.

Good luck.
 
Been thinking about picking up sarms for future use and it seems there gone. Was there a recent ban? Not talking about RC more about supplement companies
 
07tacoma said:
Been thinking about picking up sarms for future use and it seems there gone. Was there a recent ban? Not talking about RC more about supplement companies
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No ban but there have been some lawsuits thrown around so most reputable companies are trying to keep the cheat off of them by stopping production.
 
My wife just cracked open one of my two 360 count Ostar1ne bottles a week ago to start her first cycle. I'm excited... for her.
 
HardB0iled said:
My wife just cracked open one of my two 360 count Ostar1ne bottles a week ago to start her first cycle. I'm excited... for her.
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You definitely should be excited for her!
 
Mine would love to run some osta. But haven't researched very much for female. Seems like 10mg or so would be very effective
 
07tacoma said:
Mine would love to run some osta. But haven't researched very much for female. Seems like 10mg or so would be very effective
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5 to 10mg is perfect.
 
DeBoe40 said:
What does ostar1ne do?
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It's an anabolic, one that is selective by nature which is mainly used to maintain muscle mass in a caloric deficit. You should read my opening post ;)
 
Sounds good, I will have to re-read it. I am doing my first cycle of SARMS LGD 4033 based of your article. I got the liquid, and it taste like GARBAGE!!!!!
 
raowr said:
have any humans got cancer from GW-501516 at doses 30mg or lower?

(or any serious permanent side effects)
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No cancer has ever been reported in humans but human trials were never conducted and it's mainly just being used by people such as ourselves so you won't hear of any actual human cancer cases. The trials in which the mice got cancer from GW were set up for failure, mice were predisposed for cancer and bolus doses of GW were given to them. The main thing you have to worry about with GW is hypoglycemia, ease into your GW dose since you absolutely have to use this compound.
 
No need to split dose, take all at one time. No need to go 5 on 2 off either, that protocol is used for s4 to try and mitigate vision sides (and it still doesn't help!) Just dose once a day every day until your cycle is over and just try to live a healthy lifestyle while using, that will help make it "safer"
 
Question time: looking into an addition for my lady. She's on 12.5 Mk677 currently. Going to keep running that. She also does hghfrag on fasted cardio days.

Have given some thought to low dose of osterine and or gw. Any experience here?
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Question time: looking into an addition for my lady. She's on 12.5 Mk677 currently. Going to keep running that. She also does hghfrag on fasted cardio days.

Have given some thought to low dose of osterine and or gw. Any experience here?
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My ex ran a few cycles of osta at 10mg with very good success and no side effects. Just remember that osta isn't your best option if she wants to get pregnant any time in the future.
 
yates84 said:
My ex ran a few cycles of osta at 10mg with very good success and no side effects. Just remember that osta isn't your best option if she wants to get pregnant any time in the future.
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Gotcha. Yea I was considering that, var or clen(slightly anabolic). So far I think clen might be where I'm leaning towards.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Question time: looking into an addition for my lady. She's on 12.5 Mk677 currently. Going to keep running that. She also does hghfrag on fasted cardio days.

Have given some thought to low dose of osterine and or gw. Any experience here?
Click to expand...
How's she doing with mk? Can you report of results and sides?
 
GreenMachineX said:
How's she doing with mk? Can you report of results and sides?
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Ok so we started her at 6.25mg per day for two weeks, no sides, then moved her to 12.5 and she's been there for 6 weeks. I am considering moving her up again actually. She's been losing weight which is what she wanted. Overall down 5lbs since starting. She's very strict with sodium intake and runs keto so no issues with water retention. She had some issues for a few days being tired, but that subsided and is only here and there. She honestly hasn't complained about anything, it's only from my observations and me asking frequently..
 
DeBoe40 said:
Is there any other way to take the liquid LGD 4033? Mix with pre-workout?
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Just have a chaser ready! You really don't want to mix it with anything because you could possibly not get your full dose, always some leftover in a pwo shaker.
 
I had some RC MK tasted like Gasoline!!
 
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