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Any Non-Andro Based PH or DS still legal/not banned?

pogue said:
I'm still waiting to hear what's still legal so I can stock up on it. So far all I know of is trest, which sounds like an excellent compound, and Epiandro, which I'll pass on.

And I'm not looking at VaughnTrue's version of "legal" but what's actually still being sold out in the open.
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Lot of available stuff that is legit. Trest, 11kt, msten, protodrol(available via UK websites), SARMs...even beyond that you can still find some of the old school stuff like epistane, and the old goodies if you look hard enough
 
Willtolift said:
testosterone enanthate or cypionate.
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I honestly don't know a lot about DMZ or what he means by msten, but 1-andro which converts to 1-testosterone would be a good addition to a cycle. You can read my article on it here
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Secondly, trest aka MENT is an absolutely awesome compound that is similar to tren but without some of the really negative side effects and would also go great with a test cycle.
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Neither of those would necessarily "kick start it" (I don't know how quickly they act in the body, and if you start seeing effects immediately), and if you have access to test you might want to just go with dbol or winstrol or another non-legal oral depending on what your goals are for the cycle are. Just depends on what you have access to.
 
Willtolift said:
Which makes the best kick start to a test cycle, from best to worst?
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We have a logger kick starting his test cycle with 1-Testosterone (1-Andro) right now and he seems to be extremely happy with the results thus far.

Beyond that, it's hard to touch Trest. It's a very, very, very, very, VERY strong compound that impacts serious gains. Just make sure to keep in mind it's powerful shutdown/infertility issues and you'll be good to go
 
VaughnTrue said:
Lot of available stuff that is legit. Trest, 11kt, msten, protodrol(available via UK websites), SARMs...even beyond that you can still find some of the old school stuff like epistane, and the old goodies if you look hard enough
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11kt I wouldn't be interested in. Protodrol I've never heard of. SARMs I'm stocked up on. Can you tell me the full name of msten people keep mentioning?

Btw, I sent you a PM. Just wondering if you got a chance to see it and respond.
 
VaughnTrue said:
We have a logger kick starting his test cycle with 1-Testosterone (1-Andro) right now and he seems to be extremely happy with the results thus far.

Beyond that, it's hard to touch Trest. It's a very, very, very, very, VERY strong compound that impacts serious gains. Just make sure to keep in mind it's powerful shutdown/infertility issues and you'll be good to go
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Yeah, I am kind of shying away from trest becaye of the infertility issues.
 
pogue said:
11kt I wouldn't be interested in. Protodrol I've never heard of. SARMs I'm stocked up on. Can you tell me the full name of msten people keep mentioning?

Btw, I sent you a PM. Just wondering if you got a chance to see it and respond.
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Protodrol

17a-methyl-5a-androst-17b-ol


Patrick Arnold was the first to synthesis this in modern times that I know of, and IFN got the idea and synthesis process from him directly.

One of the best compounds I have ever used, legal/illegal/in between.

One major benefit is that although it's methylated, studies show bilirubin levels should not increase during usage.


Edit: got your PM. Today was crazy, sorry. I will respond in the AM.
 
Msten should just be methylstenbolone I believe, aka CTD labs Mass Tabs from back in the day
 
I wouldn't kick start a test cycle with 1-Andro. DMZ/Msten (Methylstenbalone) all the way.

As far as protodrol here's a little more Invalid Link Removed
 
VaughnTrue said:
Protodrol

17a-methyl-5a-androst-17b-ol


Patrick Arnold was the first to synthesis this in modern times that I know of, and IFN got the idea and synthesis process from him directly.

One of the best compounds I have ever used, legal/illegal/in between.

One major benefit is that although it's methylated, studies show bilirubin levels should not increase during usage.


Edit: got your PM. Today was crazy, sorry. I will respond in the AM.
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What compounds would you compare protodrol? From what I've seen, it seems to be more mild than halo
 
So, if it's not against the rules, can anyone list the companies that still produce Methylstenbolone, DMZ and Protodrol? If that's a problem, PM or email (in my signature) would be appreciated.
 
AnabolicGuru said:
What compounds would you compare protodrol? From what I've seen, it seems to be more mild than halo
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it was mild in the sense that you didn't get the usual back pumps/sides from other hormones. I get back pumps from every single oral I've ever taken(including our current 1-andro), except protodrol. For me, it was quite literally the ultimate compound. I plan on buying 3-4 bottles in England this week while I'm at the BodyPower Expo in Birmingham.


I only ran Halodrol once, and it was stacked with Propadrol from EST, and I wasn't a big fan of the cycle tbh, just didn't see too much from it. I think the thing I can most closely compare it to would be Havoc from RPN, however when I ran IBE Epistane I absolutely HATED that compound...so I am not sure if IBE was using bunk raws/a diff hormone at that point.

It really was in a class of its own. I don't ever spend money on supplements(literally ever), so me buying this protodrol this week will be the first time I have spent a penny on supplements since ~2008 I believe it is.
 
pogue said:
So, if it's not against the rules, can anyone list the companies that still produce Methylstenbolone, DMZ and Protodrol? If that's a problem, PM or email (in my signature) would be appreciated.
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of those 3, only one I know of is the protodrol. We did a private run for Predator Nutrition a while back, so they are the only source of that hormone left in the world that I believe currently exists(rare hormones like that rarely get synthesized outside of chemists like PA's kitchen)
 
Kick start order I'd go: msten, dmz, trest, andros from best to "worst" (not really worst but you know). Honestly tho I wouldn't stack trest and test. They're very similar and trest alone can be a bear with methylestro sides. Stacking on top with more test could lead to some nasty aromatization to have to control.
 
VaughnTrue said:
of those 3, only one I know of is the protodrol. We did a private run for Predator Nutrition a while back, so they are the only source of that hormone left in the world that I believe currently exists(rare hormones like that rarely get synthesized outside of chemists like PA's kitchen)
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So it looks like it's $53 for 60 caps of 25mg. Pretty pricey, but will they ship to the US and is that enough for 1 cycle?
 
Most reputable companies that produced PH in America still produce them overseas. The DASCA banned PH are predominately legal over there
 
booneman77 said:
Kick start order I'd go: msten, dmz, trest, andros from best to "worst" (not really worst but you know). Honestly tho I wouldn't stack trest and test. They're very similar and trest alone can be a bear with methylestro sides. Stacking on top with more test could lead to some nasty aromatization to have to control.
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Yeah... I'm good on turning into Bob from fight club.
 
pogue said:
So it looks like it's $53 for 60 caps of 25mg. Pretty pricey, but will they ship to the US and is that enough for 1 cycle?
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with the international shipping issues, it is VERY expensive.

a traditional cycle was theorizes at 50mg/day, and that is a starting point IMO. 75mg is where it gets "good", and 100mg is where it gets to "omfg wtf if this I need more".

If you want me to grab some bottles for you, I can...I was told I could grab what I wanted at 20 pounds per bottle(~$30). I wouldn't mind grabbing extra, and then shipping them to you upon returning to the states.
 
VaughnTrue said:
with the international shipping issues, it is VERY expensive.

a traditional cycle was theorizes at 50mg/day, and that is a starting point IMO. 75mg is where it gets "good", and 100mg is where it gets to "omfg wtf if this I need more".

If you want me to grab some bottles for you, I can...I was told I could grab what I wanted at 20 pounds per bottle(~$30). I wouldn't mind grabbing extra, and then shipping them to you upon returning to the states.
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I would definitely be down for that. Hit me up in another PM or email and we'll work out the details. I would really appreciate it! They also have some other interesting looking PHs, including "nanoparticles" of Methylstenbolone in a product called Nanodrol. Sounds interesting, but if I can find it domestically, it probably wouldn't be worth my trouble.
 
Woody said:
I just want to clarify that a pharma grade AI. An OTC AI will NOT be enough .
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Big Cat seemed to indicate otherwise in his old article on the subject

But MENT on the other hand is still capable of aromatizing2 (which would not be the case with a 4 or 5 methylation), so you still have the benefits of estrogen : extra strength, better glycogen use, upgrading of androgen receptor, increased GH output and more IGF1. Its estrogenic potency may in fact be slightly larger because 7-alpha-methyl-estradiol (the product of MENT aromatization) may show less affinity to binding proteins as well. It is in fact suggested that part of MENT's actions may be the result of this potent estrogen1.
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pogue said:
Big Cat seemed to indicate otherwise in his old article on the subject
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Big Cat...how damn man...right down memory lane. Talk about old school!


I read every single article/paper he wrote like it was gospel when I was younger. A lot of what he said rings true today and will forever, however a fair bit has been shown to be outdated at this point in time. I am the first one to say "look at the studies 99.9% of the time", however end user feedback on this compound (this is assuming the compound being sold by companies is actually legit) provided far more aromatization than many realized however.

That said, I ****ing love estrogen. I am lucky because I don't get gyno (I had horrendous pubertal gyno, but have never had any signal of a flare up regardless of the compounds I've used), and when I have run compound which aromatize, the gains I get are so far beyond anything I have gotten from stuff that doesn't its crazy.


If I were to go on an all out "I'm Kevin Levrone and I'm competing at this 2016 Mr. Olympia" bulking cycle, I think 3+ compounds I used in that prep would aromatize for my bulk cycle. Even in my cutting cycle leading up into show day, I would use at least 2 compounds that aromatize, and include an AI during the last 3-4 weeks.
 
I've been trying to get ahold of the old gurus for awhile now and can't manage to get a single one to talk to me. I'm playing email tag with William Llewellyn, Patrick Arnold doesn't answer his emails, nor does Big Cat, and Bruce Kneller... well, I had a short conversation with him, and would love to hear his take on a lot of stuff too, but he also seems to have moved on to other ventures.
 
VaughnTrue said:
with the international shipping issues, it is VERY expensive.

a traditional cycle was theorizes at 50mg/day, and that is a starting point IMO. 75mg is where it gets "good", and 100mg is where it gets to "omfg wtf if this I need more".

If you want me to grab some bottles for you, I can...I was told I could grab what I wanted at 20 pounds per bottle(~$30). I wouldn't mind grabbing extra, and then shipping them to you upon returning to the states.
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Ooh pogue getting the hookup!
 
pogue said:
I've been trying to get ahold of the old gurus for awhile now and can't manage to get a single one to talk to me. I'm playing email tag with William Llewellyn, Patrick Arnold doesn't answer his emails, nor does Big Cat, and Bruce Kneller... well, I had a short conversation with him, and would love to hear his take on a lot of stuff too, but he also seems to have moved on to other ventures.
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I can offer you the ear of Eric, the original owner of LG. He is more well versed on prohormones, however he is extremely knowledgeable in regards to all hormonal discussions. He is the reason HT owns the patents to the DHEA isomers (imagine being smart enough to see the writing on the wall back in 2006-2007, and patenting "weak DHEA isomers" while everyone laughed at you, and then to ultimately be the originator of what will undoubtedly be the largest/longest era of prohormones in dietary supplement industry? Can't do anything but tip your hat to the guy)

I work with him closely on a daily basis, so just let me know and I can connect the two of you

BamBam0319 said:
Ooh pogue getting the hookup!
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honestly, I don't mind doing this for anyone reading this thread. All I need is the asking price of the products in my PayPal, and I will purchase them from you. After that, all I need is the standard USPS shipping rate added to my PayPal, and they're yours. Not looking to make any money off of anyone, just need to make sure I don't lose any either.
 
VaughnTrue said:
honestly, I don't mind doing this for anyone reading this thread. All I need is the asking price of the products in my PayPal, and I will purchase them from you. After that, all I need is the standard USPS shipping rate added to my PayPal, and they're yours. Not looking to make any money off of anyone, just need to make sure I don't lose any either.
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That's very generous of you. Honestly if they are ~$30 per bottle I'd be more than happy to take you up on that offer. Three bottles would make a great 8 week cycle.
 
I was quoted at 20 pounds per bottle (~$30 bottle) for protodrol. anything else you want, just let me know and I can get pricing for you...but please let me know ASAP as I leave tomorrow and internet access will be limited for me while I am in the UK(I don't expect to have internet access outside of my hotel room or public wifi areas)
 
Well, I found a series of supplements, which I don't believe are for sale any longer - for what reason, I don't know, but they contained a variety of PHs/DSs that were either "legal" when they were first being sold, or just not being enforced. The name of the company was Gorilla Pharma and some of their products look more like liver destroyers than anything else, but nonetheless, it's an interesting list of compounds that may still be available on the open market in one way, shape or form. After doing a bit of searching, I did find some of the ingredients being sold isolated in various places.

So, take this for what you will, some of these ingredients may no longer be available, and some might be. I think the idea of combining 3-4 methylated compounds in a single product is crazy, but I do like the idea of combining more than one PH/DS into a single product - at least some of them. Hopefully some more knowledgeable board members can update us on what's legal still in these lists.

GV2

gv2.png


GV3

gv3.png


GV4

gv4.png


According to a cursory web search, the "Deca" they have listed on the label is actually a derivative of Invalid Link Removed, the 'undetectable' steroid Patrick Arnold was creating for BALCO to allow athletes to pass drug tests.

GV5 (Sorry about the low quality, I couldn't blow the image up any more)

gv5.png


GV6

gv6.png


Methylclostebol I would love to get my hands on if it's still out there. I know regular Clostebol is still sold on the black market, and a MLB player just got caught using it, but I wasn't aware there was a methylated version.

If you're wondering what GV1 is, it was just a blend of herbs and plant sterols to act as a 'natty' anabolic and marketed as a PCT as well.

So, as far as I can tell, the current still legal substances that were being sold in these formulas is:

  1. Methyl-1-AD (1-test with an oxime modification I think)
  2. Methyldiazirinol
  3. Epistane (This is just EpiAndro, correct?)
  4. Cynostane
  5. Trest
  6. Hexadrone
  7. Furazadrol (Correct me if I'm wrong, I searched around and saw this being sold in various places)
  8. Methylstenbolone
  9. Dymethazine (aka DMZ)

Legal Status Unknown or presumed banned:
  • Dimethandrostenol
  • Mentabolan (is this the same as MENT aka trest?)
  • Max LMG (I believe this is banned)
  • Trenavar
  • Methylclostebol
  • Norbolethone (I'm sure this is banned, but is its derivative banned?)
  • Halodrol (banned)
 
VaughnTrue said:
this this this this.


I am in 10000% agreement there



Invalid Link Removed
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Thirded on this. Srs trest is a monster if you dose too high. Even low dose can be tough for someone if they're sensitive
 
pogue said:
Well, I found a series of supplements, which I don't believe are for sale any longer - for what reason, I don't know, but they contained a variety of PHs/DSs that were either "legal" when they were first being sold, or just not being enforced. The name of the company was Gorilla Pharma and some of their products look more like liver destroyers than anything else, but nonetheless, it's an interesting list of compounds that may still be available on the open market in one way, shape or form. After doing a bit of searching, I did find some of the ingredients being sold isolated in various places.

So, take this for what you will, some of these ingredients may no longer be available, and some might be. I think the idea of combining 3-4 methylated compounds in a single product is crazy, but I do like the idea of combining more than one PH/DS into a single product - at least some of them. Hopefully some more knowledgeable board members can update us on what's legal still in these lists.

GV2

View attachment 135315

GV3

View attachment 135316

GV4

View attachment 135317

According to a cursory web search, the "Deca" they have listed on the label is actually a derivative of Invalid Link Removed, the 'undetectable' steroid Patrick Arnold was creating for BALCO to allow athletes to pass drug tests.

GV5 (Sorry about the low quality, I couldn't blow the image up any more)

View attachment 135318

GV6

View attachment 135319

Methylclostebol I would love to get my hands on if it's still out there. I know regular Clostebol is still sold on the black market, and a MLB player just got caught using it, but I wasn't aware there was a methylated version.

If you're wondering what GV1 is, it was just a blend of herbs and plant sterols to act as a 'natty' anabolic and marketed as a PCT as well.

So, as far as I can tell, the current still legal substances that were being sold in these formulas is:

  1. Methyl-1-AD (1-test with an oxime modification I think)
  2. Methyldiazirinol
  3. Epistane (This is just EpiAndro, correct?)
  4. Cynostane
  5. Trest
  6. Hexadrone
  7. Furazadrol (Correct me if I'm wrong, I searched around and saw this being sold in various places)
  8. Methylstenbolone
  9. Dymethazine (aka DMZ)

Legal Status Unknown or presumed banned:
  • Dimethandrostenol
  • Mentabolan (is this the same as MENT aka trest?)
  • Max LMG (I believe this is banned)
  • Trenavar
  • Methylclostebol
  • Norbolethone (I'm sure this is banned, but is its derivative banned?)
  • Halodrol (banned)
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Pretty much everything in those gv's is banned.

Epistane is NOT epi andro

"Technically" dmz/trest and msten are still being sold but all the rest are pretty much formally banned.
 
SO...these online supplement sites who sell msten and dmz...who all of a sudden have seemed to restock..is it all bunk you think?
 
Particular brands more so than stores seem to be the issue. Iml has been one of these. Bsl as well
 
Yea that's what I thought. Hopefully the capsules are filled with just creatine or something that won't hurt people. You would think that these companies would say something about sites selling their products.a1supps.has over 50 "good reviews" for their super dmz. And they just got a new stock in
 
Hawkwarrior said:
Yea that's what I thought. Hopefully the capsules are filled with just creatine or something that won't hurt people. You would think that these companies would say something about sites selling their products.a1supps.has over 50 "good reviews" for their super dmz. And they just got a new stock in
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That's because all the reviews are from pre ban.
 
A shady thing about people in any industry is that they will make a lot of fake reviews to make their products look better. It's one of the best forms of marketing. If someone is torn between 3 products, one has 4*'s with 3 reviews, one has 4*'s with 1 review, then the other one has 5*'s with 100 reviews, obviously you'll by the 5* product 100 excellent reviews claiming it's the coolest thing since sliced bread.
 
Hawkwarrior said:
That may be true but the dates on the reviews are all recent.. Like this month recent...sure they could have changed the dates.
.
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Or they could've been running stuff they had bought earlier. I know I stocked up ha
 
For me 1-Andro was crazy. Ran 600mg with epiandro at 300mg and Dermacrine at 3 pumps and gained 16 pounds over 8 weeks. Body fat went up 1%. It's all legal and worked like a charm.
 
VaughnTrue said:
I was quoted at 20 pounds per bottle (~$30 bottle) for protodrol. anything else you want, just let me know and I can get pricing for you...but please let me know ASAP as I leave tomorrow and internet access will be limited for me while I am in the UK(I don't expect to have internet access outside of my hotel room or public wifi areas)
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Did you see my PM bro? I messaged you almost immediately
 
I might pick up some protodrol soon to save for the future...Definitely will be adding triumphalis to my stash, my cycle is going great so far :)
 
BamBam0319 said:
Did you see my PM bro? I messaged you almost immediately
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sorry man, internet has been sketchy in the UK for me so far, trying to get it fixed.


Let me try to get in contact with the PN guys and see how much inventory they can bring to the expo
 
VaughnTrue said:
sorry man, internet has been sketchy in the UK for me so far, trying to get it fixed.


Let me try to get in contact with the PN guys and see how much inventory they can bring to the expo
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I also sent you an email about this same subject, along with the other matters we discussed.
 
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