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I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

Pec.Major said:
Danes, is this with the Optima lecithin? I get it on Friday. Should I start with 1.5g PA? Do you split dosing up or just take it pre workout and sometime during the day on rest days?
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You can start with 1-1.5g PA pre.
I remember Dr.Michael Roberts mentioned Dr.Wilson and Dr.Hoffman gave 2g pre to athletes and it was even better than 750mg.
You could dose 1.5g pre and 1g post. (You dont need to take it right after workout).
 
mad dog said:
What's the best Supplemt to stack PA with and does anyone think the dose in OL Tr1umph is sufficient...
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Best? Not sure there is one that is "best".

I'd personally try stacking Arachidonic Acid with it.
 
mad dog said:
What's the best Supplemt to stack PA with and does anyone think the dose in OL Tr1umph is sufficient...
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Tr1umph does use doses at or higher than the cited studies, though many feel "more is better."

Sometimes I'll add 1 tbsp SL to my Tr1umph but most times I take it as is.

Also keep in mind the product contains a number of other ergogenics as well : )
 
kbayne said:
If you go 1.5 grams off the bat, I would split the dose pre (30-120 minutes) and another post and/or later prior to a higher fat meal.

Rest days, dose prior to fatty meals.
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Danes said:
You can start with 1-1.5g PA pre.
I remember Dr.Michael Roberts mentioned Dr.Wilson and Dr.Hoffman gave 2g pre to athletes and it was even better than 750mg.
You could dose 1.5g pre and 1g post. (You dont need to take it right after workout).
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Thanks guys!
 
So far I've going through about 10 tubs of lecitihin granules and I still enjoy the taste. The one gripe I have is that it seems to make my breath a bit funky afterwards. Other than that no GI issues or sides
 
ELROCK said:
Both SL and PA definitely works once you get your dosing down.
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I think this is the key. I remember when I first started using it, I put on fat quite a bit faster than normal. My caloric intake was ~300 cals over maintenance per day. I was taking in 22g of SL around 1-2 hrs pre. Reversing out of this cut, I am going to try the 15g dose and see how it fares.
 
Danes said:
You can start with 1-1.5g PA pre.
I remember Dr.Michael Roberts mentioned Dr.Wilson and Dr.Hoffman gave 2g pre to athletes and it was even better than 750mg.
You could dose 1.5g pre and 1g post. (You dont need to take it right after workout).
Click to expand...

Did 20g Optima 1-1.5hour pre workout. Around 2.6g PA. Got swole as f*** in the gym. I been taking Tr1umph for 2 months and it as 900mg PA. This was definitely a better dose for me. Only downside is fat content, 18g fat. Tuna and bulgur for dinner...
 
Pec.Major said:
Did 20g Optima 1-1.5hour pre workout. Around 2.6g PA. Got swole as f*** in the gym. I been taking Tr1umph for 2 months and it as 900mg PA. This was definitely a better dose for me. Only downside is fat content, 18g fat. Tuna and bulgur for dinner...
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It's more likely 4-8% PA, so 800-1600mg PA, probably closer to 1400mg or so. That's a good dose; I typically take 3 tbsp pre-workout.
 
Pec.Major said:
Did 20g Optima 1-1.5hour pre workout. Around 2.6g PA. Got swole as f*** in the gym. I been taking Tr1umph for 2 months and it as 900mg PA. This was definitely a better dose for me. Only downside is fat content, 18g fat. Tuna and bulgur for dinner...
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Sometimes I throw in 1 tbsp on SL with my Tr1umph and basically get that same effect. Give it a shot if you still have some Tr1umph left : )
 
muscleupcrohn said:
It's more likely 4-8% PA, so 800-1600mg PA, probably closer to 1400mg or so. That's a good dose; I typically take 3 tbsp pre-workout.
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Okey. So the PA content is lower then stated on the label? Bummer.

kboxer7 said:
Sometimes I throw in 1 tbsp on SL with my Tr1umph and basically get that same effect. Give it a shot if you still have some Tr1umph left : )
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I have 2-3 servings left of Tr1umph Peaches and Cream. It is not my favorite flavor though, the Orange Creamsicle Sorbet was the best. :)
 
Pec.Major said:
Okey. So the PA content is lower then stated on the label? Bummer.



I have 2-3 servings left of Tr1umph Peaches and Cream. It is not my favorite flavor though, the Orange Creamsicle Sorbet was the best. :)
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New flavors are on the horizon too so keep your eye out for a SWEET insider deal (cherry, strawberry bananna, and unflavored).

As for the PA content of Fearn and Optima and any company for that matter....label claims are indeed a "guesstimate" based on average PA content of 4-8%. After going thru what must be like 30 tubs or so of SL from Fearns over time with differing lot numbers and batches, I can say with confidence that there is indeed a fluctuation in the % of PA in batches.
 
kboxer7 said:
New flavors are on the horizon too so keep your eye out for a SWEET insider deal (cherry, strawberry bananna, and unflavored).

As for the PA content of Fearn and Optima and any company for that matter....label claims are indeed a "guesstimate" based on average PA content of 4-8%. After going thru what must be like 30 tubs or so of SL from Fearns over time with differing lot numbers and batches, I can say with confidence that there is indeed a fluctuation in the % of PA in batches.
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This is why I always dose at least 18.75g (or just 3tbsp since it's easy) of lecithin granules, that way I get 750mg PA even at 4%, and if it's closer to 8%, that's just a bonus.
 
kboxer7 said:
New flavors are on the horizon too so keep your eye out for a SWEET insider deal (cherry, strawberry bananna, and unflavored).

As for the PA content of Fearn and Optima and any company for that matter....label claims are indeed a "guesstimate" based on average PA content of 4-8%. After going thru what must be like 30 tubs or so of SL from Fearns over time with differing lot numbers and batches, I can say with confidence that there is indeed a fluctuation in the % of PA in batches.
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The new flavors sounds promising. :)

Okey, so it is a bit of a jungle and safest would be dosing 2-3 servings of Fearn /Optima pre workout to be on the safe side?
 
Pec.Major said:
The new flavors sounds promising. :)

Okey, so it is a bit of a jungle and safest would be dosing 2-3 servings of Fearn /Optima pre workout to be on the safe side?
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I would just assume an average (4+8 = 12, 12+2 = 6%). That's the best you can do with Fearns and others and using that estimate people are having good results based off of the dosing I've seen. My best results were off of 3-4 tbsp of Fearns.

Tr1umph you know for sure you are getting a minimum of 913mg per label and testing. Sometimes it will be higher than that, but never lower.
 
kboxer7 said:
I would just assume an average (4+8 = 12, 12+2 = 6%). That's the best you can do with Fearns and others and using that estimate people are having good results based off of the dosing I've seen. My best results were off of 3-4 tbsp of Fearns.

Tr1umph you know for sure you are getting a minimum of 913mg per label and testing. Sometimes it will be higher than that, but never lower.
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The average is around 6-7% from what I've seen, but I agree that 3-4tbsp is a good amount.
 
I am using one scoop of tr1umph preworkout, should I be taking tablespoon of sl pre workout as well or post workout.
 
chainsaw said:
I am using one scoop of tr1umph preworkout, should I be taking tablespoon of sl pre workout as well or post workout.
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Not necessary IMO. The study used a total of 750mg - 400mg PrWO, and 350mg PoWO. If you wanted to stack the deck, you could take 1Tbs of SLG PoWO if you wanted.
 
What are you taking your lecithin with? Because I had to switch to sunflower L because of heavy GI issues. It was pretty ok, I did Swanson (they write it should have 6 %PA), but after 10 days of not really feeling much I doubled the dose (think Sunflower L is more like 3 %), had an Intense day with incredible pump, BUT after workout could barely make it to the toilet again........... I tried first day to mix it with a shake , was pretty bad, next day mixed it with yoghurt, also bad. Should I try to gulp it down with water or maybe split the doses? **** I am unlucky, such a nice supp and I cannot take it...
G
 
Jn330 said:
Yes, but I am curious if anyone else wanted to answer to. Was not trying to be sarcastic if that's how it came across

edit: My browser was messed up and literally showed one page. disregard my post.
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No problem that's why I was asking...they were one of the first companies to release PA and that was before anyone really knew that soy lecithin was a viable source.
 
So any more ideas? I switched from SL to Sunflower L, tried it (both versions) with a shake ,tried it with yoghurt, tried it with a meal, split the doses 15gPre / 15 gPoW, still got bad GI issues.This supp is so good, incredible pumps and some strength gains and I cannot take it...
Any more ideas except Concentrated PA? BTW, I am from Europe.
Any help is really appreciated!!
TY
G
 
BigGGG said:
So any more ideas? I switched from SL to Sunflower L, tried it (both versions) with a shake ,tried it with yoghurt, tried it with a meal, split the doses 15gPre / 15 gPoW, still got bad GI issues.This supp is so good, incredible pumps and some strength gains and I cannot take it...
Any more ideas except Concentrated PA? BTW, I am from Europe.
Any help is really appreciated!!
TY
G
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When you tried it with a shake, did you blend it? Perhaps try waiting for it to dissolve completely (no granules remaining), blend it with a shake/drink, grind the granules into a powder to use, or buy lecithin powder?
 
I think the sunflower one is powder by default. I can't come up with any suggestion for such GI issues though. It seems to be dose-independent.
 
Yes, the sunflower one comes as a finely blended powder. I shook it vigurously so it should have dissolved completely. Strangely I sometimes don't get any issues. Also I have seen that there is a "deoiled " version, might this help?
G
 
I can't stand messing with lechitin. I travel a lot for work and that becomes more work than it is worth. If not I would opt for granules.
 
If it were me, and I was determined enough, I would experiment with doses to find the largest dose I could take without experiencing probs, even if it meant starting at 1tsp at a time.
 
Yes, that sounds like an ideea but shouldn't it be taken maximum 1-2 hours PWO? Is it ok to spread it into 5 small doses across the day, pre, post, anytime?
G
 
BigGGG said:
Yes, that sounds like an ideea but shouldn't it be taken maximum 1-2 hours PWO? Is it ok to spread it into 5 small doses across the day, pre, post, anytime?
G
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Getting your daily dose > having zilch.

You could still dose some around your training.
 
In the study they dosed 400mg Pre and 350 Pwo. So what is the consensus, how many hours around training should dosing be effective? I know this information was somewhere around in the thread but 83 pages are too much...
TY very much!
G
 
BigGGG said:
In the study they dosed 400mg Pre and 350 Pwo. So what is the consensus, how many hours around training should dosing be effective? I know this information was somewhere around in the thread but 83 pages are too much...
TY very much!
G
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Its effective even you take 3 hours pre workout.
 
ma70 said:
I believe that it's even effective if you don't workout, but stressors make it even more effective. Right?
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Yes that is right!
Strength training do increase intracellular PA and more PA = more mTOR which again increase hypertrophy.
Studies are proving that supplementing with PA increase intracellular PA too so strength training + supplementing with PA = even more PA = better results.
Bioavailability of PA significantly rises in 30 minutes after dosing and stays elevated for 7 hours. I do take it 1 hour prior workout but its no problem taking it before either.
 
BigGGG said:
In the study they dosed 400mg Pre and 350 Pwo. So what is the consensus, how many hours around training should dosing be effective? I know this information was somewhere around in the thread but 83 pages are too much...
TY very much!
G
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And dont forget that more PA = better results. Even Dr Stout and Wilson tried different doses and more PA gave better results according to their data.
Personaly I love biotest Micro PA best of all PA products and it was difference between Micro PA and phospha Muscle even both contain MediaTor (50% soy enriched PA). Micro PA has SEDDS delivery method and it really makes difference.
It is not cheap but it really works!
 
Danes said:
And dont forget that more PA = better results. Even Dr Stout and Wilson tried different doses and more PA gave better results according to their data.
Personaly I love biotest Micro PA best of all PA products and it was difference between Micro PA and phospha Muscle even both contain MediaTor (50% soy enriched PA). Micro PA has SEDDS delivery method and it really makes difference.
It is not cheap but it really works!
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SEDDS - that's the self-emulsifying delivery system, correct?

I believe they use it in their Indigo-3G product as well. Thing is I'm not sure the science behind cyanidin-3-glucoside is that great (at least, in humans).
 
pbandy1 said:
SEDDS - that's the self-emulsifying delivery system, correct?

I believe they use it in their Indigo-3G product as well. Thing is I'm not sure the science behind cyanidin-3-glucoside is that great (at least, in humans).
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Correct.
Their indigo 3g is an amazing product and best nutrition partitioner product I have ever tried!
 
mbonheur said:
What was the general consensus about taking it on non workout days?
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Not sure what consensus means but I guess you are asking whats benefits of takng PA on non workout days?
It increase intracelluar PA. That activate mTOR signaling wich means hypertrophy
 
Misfit28 said:
It's just so damn expensive!
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I know what you mean but Indigo 3G is actually cheaper than other cyanidin-3-glucoside products. Take a look at chormadex cyanidin-3-glucoside sold by swanson as an example. Its more expensive than indigo 3g.
Indigo 3G has solid dose of cyanidin-3-glucoside and it has SEDDS delivery method. It works damn good !
 
Danes said:
Not sure what consensus means but I guess you are asking whats benefits of takng PA on non workout days?
It increase intracelluar PA. That activate mTOR signaling wich means hypertrophy
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Yeah, basically do I need to take it also on non-workout days? I'm doing it right now, but I guess I never really thought about it in detail. If it can save me a few bucks...
 
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