I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

[kdubson14]

I've deleted this thread from my subscriptions 2x now. why the **** isn't it going away

 

[gnbbc]

I've deleted this thread from my subscriptions 2x now. why the **** isn't it going away

Coz its a cool thread and u shouldnt delete it

 

[kboxer7]

I'm currently taking Tr1umph, stacking it with a few other products however.

One thing I've noticed is....

When taking bulk PA, I was taking 2-3 tablespoons the pump I got was out of this world.

Even with adding CU, I don't get the same pump.

Which is weird, I am 96kgs. I might add a tablespoon aka 15g extra to my Tr1umph.

Let's break it down a bit and see what we can come up with....

So with Fearns we Know:

2 tbsp @ 4-8% PA = 600mg-1200mg PA
3 tbsp @ 4-8% PA = 900 - 1800mg PA


OL Tr1umph:

1 scopp = 913mg PA (minimum)


Factors:

a. Through fairly meticulous tracking and measuring I've noticed variations in the % PA in Fearns with different batches (which is to be expected). Even with those variations, it is altogether possible (especially at 3 tbsp) that you may indeed be getting more PA than with 1 scoop of Tr1umph. So that could be one factor.

b. Digestion. My bet is that raw granuals take longer to digest than ground powder SL. So dose timing of either, as well as meal timing may play a role.

c. How far pre-workout are you dosing Conqu3r?

d. Any variations in your carb or protein intake pre/post between the two supps? How about hydration pre and intra?

e. Have you given Tr1umph time enough to establish muscle fullness? (starts 3 days in for me, but reaches peak fullness around days 10-14 of continual use)

Just some things to think about and play with. Don't feel like you have to answer my lengthy questionnaire online lol : )


P.S. Regardless, I think adding 1 tbsp of Fearns to your Tr1umph is an e****lent idea. Its what I do personally. Just 1 tbsp though. And the flavor of Tr1umph is so pronounced that you don't even taste the granuals which is a BIG plus in my book.

 

[AKM007]

I've been using Fearn SL for the last many months and have not noticed any fat gain. During this time I was cutting and just fit it in in my calorie intake. Nowadays I do 4 tbsp. on training days only and works well enough for me.

I am probably around 15% Bf so it might be different for someone at a lower BF who can notice the more subtle shifts of "fat storage" but still, most likely its a perception issue. I am probably living proof that SL works even while cutting and helps to gain/maintain strength without causing fat gain. So for most people in my BF range or more, I would expect similar results. Ultimately though I think, especially with regards to SL we tend to overthink things.

 

[goodvibes]

I'm on pct the past 5 weeks. The first 2 weeks here was my stack:

30mg MK677
HMB-FA
Nolva + Clomid (20mg / 50mg)
Arimacare pro + 250mg of TUDCA
Ashwaganda + Vitamin D

Diet similar was similar to my "on cycle" phase but I dropped weight from 190 down to 180 lbs within those two weeks.

I added fearn SL on the 3rd week, gained about 5lbs in two weeks, most of which is visible fat gain/bloat. My cal intake hasn't changed but it does vary slightly, still not enough for the 5lb gain in the midsection though. I'd say it's the SL, but I don't mind it right now. I call this my ugly phase anyways

 

[VaughnTrue]

I havent read through this entire thread, but what is the supposed MOA for fat gain with SL besides the small amount of calories it contains? Doesn't make any sense to me

 

[Danes]

I havent read through this entire thread, but what is the supposed MOA for fat gain with SL besides the small amount of calories it contains? Doesn't make any sense to me

Same question I am asking.
1. There cant be "huge" fat gains just after couple of weeks.
2. Phospholipids such as PA can increase Glycogen retention and it can lead to "fast" weightgain but it is NOT fat.

I believe many people misunderstand that.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Same question I am asking.
1. There cant be "huge" fat gains just after couple of weeks.
2. Phospholipids such as PA can increase Glycogen retention and it can lead to "fast" weightgain but it is NOT fat.

I believe many people misunderstand that.

this would make total sense to me. for "fat gain" you need excessive calories...simple math here all.

 

[Danes]

I added fearn SL on the 3rd week, gained about 5lbs in two weeks, most of which is visible fat gain/bloat. My cal intake hasn't changed but it does vary slightly, still not enough for the 5lb gain in the midsection though. I'd say it's the SL, but I don't mind it right now.

I will say Glycogen retention

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I will say Glycogen retention

Glycogen retention will even cause a tape measure to grow - you really need a Sub-Q fat pinch and caliper to measure if it's fat.

 

[Danes]

this would make total sense to me. for "fat gain" you need excessive calories...simple math here all.

Totaly agree.
Like I said before, 15g SL =135 calories.
Taking 30g SL = 270 calories. If you eat more than enough calories and then add 270 extra calories then you know the rest.
PA/SL is effective for glycogen retention and I have gained weight just after couple of weeks on 2g PA (which is only 18 calories) without changing the diet. Is it fat gains ? No! Adding 18calories would be like spitting in the ocean

 

[Danes]

Glycogen retention will even cause a tape measure to grow - you really need a Sub-Q fat pinch and caliper to measure if it's fat.

That is 120% correct

 

[bb333]

I am following a low calorie diet .
I added a few fat in the diet .
I would like to replace the 20g of almonds (breakfast), with lecithin .
As you see lecithin in low-calorie ?
fogged ?

 

[Danes]

I am following a low calorie diet .
I added a few fat in the diet .
I would like to replace the 20g of almonds (breakfast), with lecithin .
As you see lecithin in low-calorie ?
fogged ?

20g almonds= about 115 calories
20g SL=140-180 calories

1g almond=5.77 calories
1g SL=7-9 calories

 

[bb333]

20g almonds= about 115 calories
20g SL=140-180 calories

1g almond=5.77 calories
1g SL=7-9 calories

ahahahah
the best

 

[goodvibes]

Glycogen retention will even cause a tape measure to grow - you really need a Sub-Q fat pinch and caliper to measure if it's fat.

Same question I am asking.
1. There cant be "huge" fat gains just after couple of weeks.
2. Phospholipids such as PA can increase Glycogen retention and it can lead to "fast" weightgain but it is NOT fat.

I believe many people misunderstand that.

I will say Glycogen retention

Yes I agree, I did say bloat on my previous comment. I should have said glycogen retention to be more specific. I can tell it's not lbm so it's a bit of fat and mostly glycogen retention.

 

[ELROCK]

1 scoop of Tr1umph + 1 tbs of Fearn's SL is definitely my sweet spot. All the positives without any negatives.

 

[kdubson14]

Since this thread won't leave my notifications box no matter how many times I delete it from subscriptions...

Intestinal Microbial Metabolism of Phosphatidylcholine and Cardiovascular Risk
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1109400

Discuss

 

[VaughnTrue]

Since this thread won't leave my notifications box no matter how many times I delete it from subscriptions...

Intestinal Microbial Metabolism of Phosphatidylcholine and Cardiovascular Risk
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1109400

Discuss

so this was with dosing of antibiotics at the same time?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I'd say the cardiovascular risk from 2-4Tbs of SLG, is erased by: cardio, weightlifting, eating minimally processed micro-nutrient rich foods, and taking the 50-100 tabs/caps/pills/powders that we all take

 

[Chefdeez]

Btw this is the best valued SL I've found. Cheaper than Fearn and haven't noticed a difference.

 

[BigGGG]

So I just started my sunflower lecithin from Swanson, I don't get any GI issues for now from it and I am very happy about that part. Just a quick curiosity of mine. How much of the gains from SL can be kept? Are they all lost after stopping (also talking strength gains)? Or is a part of both kept? Do the gains stop after a time ( like 6 months) of constant use or they keep going as long as you take it? Seriously afraid of getting to big (bad joke
G

 

[machinehead]

I lose some fullness when I stop using it (because it stops working for me after a few weeks) but strength is intact and therefore muscle is not lost, just appearance of such.

 

[BigGGG]

I lose some fullness when I stop using it (because it stops working for me after a few weeks) but strength is intact and therefore muscle is not lost, just appearance of such.

And when you get on it after a break do you still progress in strength? Meaning strength progression continues from where it was before stopping? If it is this way, whoa!!.... Even better than AAS, as most of the strength gains are lost after the cycle....
G

 

[machinehead]

Yes, they continue. I train for strength so any minuscule variation is obvious to me. It may not be the same for pump trainers.

 

[BigGGG]

**** pump I'm powerlifting (tested), so this sounds incredible to me! Ty for the good news!
G

 

[muscleupcrohn]

PA is probably my favorite ingredient for strength gains. I've ran it multiple times, with breaks in between, and I always seem to progress at a noticeably faster rate when I'm taking it (from any source assuming a proper dose).

 

[kboxer7]

**** pump I'm powerlifting (tested), so this sounds incredible to me! Ty for the good news!
G

If you are looking for PA from SL + a few other proven ingredients shown to improve strength may I suggest you give OL Tr1umph a look? It has helped me push past my last plateau.

 

[ma70]

**** pump I'm powerlifting (tested), so this sounds incredible to me! Ty for the good news!
G

Yes, they continue. I train for strength so any minuscule variation is obvious to me. It may not be the same for pump trainers.

Same. Strength athlete here. PA helps a bit with strength progression.

 

[BigGGG]

If you are looking for PA from SL + a few other proven ingredients shown to improve strength may I suggest you give OL Tr1umph a look? It has helped me push past my last plateau.

Would dearly want to try Tr1umph but SL has given me horrible GI issues, thats why I go by sunflower lecithin now. Could the other ingredients in Tr1umph help with the GI issues from SL?
G

 

[Zariph]

Any need of cycling PA? Been on PA for 6months+ now

 

[kboxer7]

Any need of cycling PA? Been on PA for 6months+ now

No real "need" to. Though I typically prescribe to the school of thought that says a break from anything for a few weeks is likely a good thing. I only break this rule for staples that are more "health" oriented than performance (like epi, creatine, healthy oils, etc).

 

[machinehead]

I stops working for me in about 2-months time so I cycle for that reason only.

 

[T-Bone]

I keep reading how it turns people into fat asses. Have only seen in popular on AM. Still have no interest in it at all. Like to read what people say they think they got from it though. That's always kind of interesting.

 

[jswain34]

Soy lecithin turns people into fat asses...lol...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I keep reading how it turns people into fat asses. Have only seen in popular on AM. Still have no interest in it at all. Like to read what people say they think they got from it though. That's always kind of interesting.

Are you saying that you don't think that Phosphatidic Acid works, or that you don't think soy lecithin is a viable source of PA?

 

[kbayne]

Are you saying that you don't think that Phosphatidic Acid works, or that you don't think soy lecithin is a viable source of PA?

He doesn't know what he is saying.

Simply talking. As you see in his post, has never attempted to use the ingredient, yet will talk as if he has.

 

[T-Bone]

Are you saying that you don't think that Phosphatidic Acid works, or that you don't think soy lecithin is a viable source of PA?

I'm just saying what I've read about it here on AM and that I really don't have an interest in it. However, I like to read what people say they got from it.

 

[T-Bone]

He doesn't know what he is saying.

Simply talking. As you see in his post, has never attempted to use the ingredient, yet will talk as if he has.

How was I talking as if I had used it?. Do you just want my attention or something?. Like drama?.

 

[kbayne]

How was I talking as if I had used it?. Do you just want my attention or something?. Like drama?.

All the drama

 

[Chefdeez]

The bottom line is PA from granules WORKS. If you're getting "bloated" from it you're gaining fat because you're consuming too much fat/calories. It's pretty basic.

 

[ELROCK]

Both SL and PA definitely works once you get your dosing down.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'm just saying what I've read about it here on AM and that I really don't have an interest in it. However, I like to read what people say they got from it.

The way you worded it can be interpreted as you not thinking PA works, hence why you find it interesting to read what people "think" they got from it, as if they didn't get any benefits from it in reality. I'm not saying that's what you meant, but I can see how someone would read it in that way.

Anyway, PA has multiple human studies showing benefits, as well as good anecdotal feedback around here. Soy lecithin granules are a feasible source of effective doses of PA (confirmed by research), and also have solid anecdotal feedback. What more do you want?

 

[Zariph]

No real "need" to. Though I typically prescribe to the school of thought that says a break from anything for a few weeks is likely a good thing. I only break this rule for staples that are more "health" oriented than performance (like epi, creatine, healthy oils, etc).

thx man, also im about to start epic unleahsed ( I see you say you are using this as a staple) how you dose this

 

[kboxer7]

thx man, also im about to start epic unleahsed ( I see you say you are using this as a staple) how you dose this

I mostly use the TD.

I like a morning dose, another dose 45-60min pre-workout, and a third dose 1-3 hours post workout.

Ends up being somewhere between 2-3 pumps total per day split up.

EDIT: I work out in the PM for reference.

 

[T-Bone]

The way you worded it can be interpreted as you not thinking PA works, hence why you find it interesting to read what people "think" they got from it, as if they didn't get any benefits from it in reality. I'm not saying that's what you meant, but I can see how someone would read it in that way.

Anyway, PA has multiple human studies showing benefits, as well as good anecdotal feedback around here. Soy lecithin granules are a feasible source of effective doses of PA (confirmed by research), and also have solid anecdotal feedback. What more do you want?

No that's not how I meant it. I've seen both positive and negative feedback. I think the jury is still out really. Maybe I'll try it one day, maybe not. It just doesn't stick out to me right now as something I must try.

 

[ma70]

No that's not how I meant it. I've seen both positive and negative feedback. I think the jury is still out really. Maybe I'll try it one day, maybe not. It just doesn't stick out to me right now as something I must try.

For around 7-13 bucks a month, it isn't too costly to try. (but you probably already knew that)

 

[muscleupcrohn]

No that's not how I meant it. I've seen both positive and negative feedback. I think the jury is still out really. Maybe I'll try it one day, maybe not. It just doesn't stick out to me right now as something I must try.

Ok. I wasn't saying that's how I though you meant it, just that it's one possible interpretation. Sometimes it's hard to tell tone/intent on the internet, haha.

 

[Pec.Major]

I allways gain weight.on PA even without adding more calories. Glycogen retention like u said KDD ..

But seriously,
To all of you who want to try PA , dont be affraid to increase the dosage.
Like i said before. 750mg PA was nothing to brag of but 1.5g and 2g was the thing!

Increased apetitte
Pumps
Musclefullness
Weightgain
Strength gain
Size

So if you dont feel anything from 750mg of PA, it would not hurt increasing the dosage

Danes, is this with the Optima lecithin? I get it on Friday. Should I start with 1.5g PA? Do you split dosing up or just take it pre workout and sometime during the day on rest days?

 

[kbayne]

Danes, is this with the Optima lecithin? I get it on Friday. Should I start with 1.5g PA? Do you split dosing up or just take it pre workout and sometime during the day on rest days?

If you go 1.5 grams off the bat, I would split the dose pre (30-120 minutes) and another post and/or later prior to a higher fat meal.

Rest days, dose prior to fatty meals.