Best sleep aids nowadays

jarrellt67 said:
Has anyone tried Millennium Sports ZMK? It looks like a pretty good multi-mineral supplement to take right before bed but I'm a little concerned about the effect the high dose of copper (2 mg) will have on sleep (and health in general).
Click to expand...

I've used it. ZMA is good, not sure ZMK was much better at all...worth trying but it is about the same.
 
cheeky1 said:
That's a pretty packed formula, about the only thing they left out was melatonin! I've yet to try a phenibut product but this sure looks interesting & The Solution gave it a big rap, which is a good sign. The addictive nature of Phenibut turns me off though, unfortunately.

You guys in the states get a million and 1 choices for things like this. Here in Oz we get diddly squat - we can't even buy melatonin OTC.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is one of the better sleep aids with a great profile that I have taken. I haven't noticed any addictive nature to the Phenibut (not that it isn't there, but I haven't noticed anything)

That's CRAZY, melatonin is handed out like candy here
 
HIT4ME said:
This is a little over stated. I have a very addictive personality and I use 500-1500 mg of phenibut and have had no issues. I make sure I don't keep much on hand and I limit myself to using it a few nights a week. I don't think you will get addicted if you place limits. It just isn't like that. I barely notice it at all. But if you DO get addicted because you abuse it, I think it can be hell to get off of and gets worse and worse.
Click to expand...

I agree, just keep it to only using for sleep a couple times a week and it's ok. Now there are people that take huge doses recreationally..... Just don't do that.... If you do, make it extremely infrequent, from what people say withdrawls are horrible
 
Yes, I can see if someone is taking grams of the stuff to just feel euphoric or something...but even at 1 gram, I don't feel thatbmuch....but I guess that is how addiction starts too...not saying not to be careful, but it can be used within reason .
 
Foxx13 said:
Doxylamine, start with a 1/3 tab and work from there. I find 1/3 is my sweet spot, knocks me out and no hangover. I take it twice a week and can basically go to bed 30 min later no matter what th etime
Click to expand...

Doxy works well, but it's probably not the ideal solution. Histamine antagonists (in general) turn off desirable endocrine activity during sleep, like GH release. They also degrade intrinsic sleep quality by reducing nightly REM. If you don't get the REM and endocrine repair during sleep, it might be better to just stay up, or find a sleeping agent that cooperates better with your training goals.

Have you tried a serotonergic, like l-Tryptophan? If low dose Doxy works that well for you, 5-HTP might also (without the covert side effects.)
 
HIT4ME said:
This is a little over stated. I have a very addictive personality and I use 500-1500 mg of phenibut and have had no issues. I make sure I don't keep much on hand and I limit myself to using it a few nights a week. I don't think you will get addicted if you place limits. It just isn't like that. I barely notice it at all. But if you DO get addicted because you abuse it, I think it can be hell to get off of and gets worse and worse.
Click to expand...

rhoadx said:
I agree, just keep it to only using for sleep a couple times a week and it's ok. Now there are people that take huge doses recreationally..... Just don't do that.... If you do, make it extremely infrequent, from what people say withdrawls are horrible
Click to expand...

My concern with Phenibut would be it creating an inability for me to get to sleep without it. I use melatonin & valerian infrequently & only when I have a need for them, so sleep any other time generally is not an issue for me.

Does anyone find that when they remove Phenibut from their night time habit, they simply have difficulty sleeping? And if so, does your body reset itself fairly quickly once Phenibut is ceased altogether?

Or is it more a case of having a gnawing desire to take it - as is the expression of withdrawal symptoms?
 
DR.D said:
Doxy works well, but it's probably not the ideal solution. Histamine antagonists (in general) turn off desirable endocrine activity during sleep, like GH release. They also degrade intrinsic sleep quality by reducing nightly REM. If you don't get the REM and endocrine repair during sleep, it might be better to just stay up, or find a sleeping agent that cooperates better with your training goals.

Have you tried a serotonergic, like l-Tryptophan? If low dose Doxy works that well for you, 5-HTP might also (without the covert side effects.)
Click to expand...

Always Love your posts Dr.D :bigok:
 
cheeky1 said:
My concern with Phenibut would be it creating an inability for me to get to sleep without it. I use melatonin & valerian infrequently & only when I have a need for them, so sleep any other time generally is not an issue for me.

Does anyone find that when they remove Phenibut from their night time habit, they simply have difficulty sleeping? And if so, does your body reset itself fairly quickly once Phenibut is ceased altogether?

Or is it more a case of having a gnawing desire to take it - as is the expression of withdrawal symptoms?
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has made Phenibut a regular thing. After just a little research I became scared to use it with anything even resembling regularity. Anesthetized knocked me out, it was great but even the label warns against taking it regularly.

I've basically avoided anything else with Phenibut and would only use if I really, really needed sleep.
 
I have taken up to 1.5 grams of overnight and use 3 - 4 times a week and haven't noticed anything negative. I don't crave it and actually have fewer sleep issues when I am not taking it then I did before I ever used it. Sometimes being extremely sleep deprived keeps you awake more than being well rested. I agree that respect and caution is a good idea....but if you are using 500 mg and taking a day off between uses....you won't have any issue.
 
mattierocks said:
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has made Phenibut a regular thing. After just a little research I became scared to use it with anything even resembling regularity. Anesthetized knocked me out, it was great but even the label warns against taking it regularly.

I've basically avoided anything else with Phenibut and would only use if I really, really needed sleep.
Click to expand...

I used it daily for a couple of months some times upwards of 3 grams a night. It is able to pass the blood brain barrier and acts as a gaba antagonist, and for that reason I was using it as a way to quit drinking so much. Anyway I never once craved it, yea if I took too much I felt like sh!t the next day but nothing like a bad hang over. And when I wanted to stop I stopped. No withdrawals no sleepless nights, no cravings. Just cessation. Now I may be a special case but I doubt it, the high you get is slight relaxation, little to no euphoria, and if you take too much you get dizzy and tired... not exactly a party. I found it therapeutic for its purpose but nothing recreational.
 
mw1 said:
I would be a hell of a lot more cautious of kratom than Phenibut
Click to expand...

I will second this IF you have a dopamine dependency issue. But again, from personal experience, kratom tolerance builds so quick that I almost feel nothing by the third time taking it in consecutive days but no withdrawals. I think the risk is that if you do take it recreationally it will be a gateway to prescription medication. And that's an entirely different beast.
 
I used to have a severe benzo problem. It's been a few years now since I stopped.

Phenibut is definitely great for me but after a few weeks the effects definitely die down. However like McCrew530, I don't really crave it or go through withdrawals. Benzo withdrawals, now that is a complete different hell.

And it doesn't really come close to feeling like a real benzo. Definitely great if you can keep the usage to a total minimum though for those that benefit off it.
 
mattierocks said:
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has made Phenibut a regular thing. After just a little research I became scared to use it with anything even resembling regularity. Anesthetized knocked me out, it was great but even the label warns against taking it regularly.

I've basically avoided anything else with Phenibut and would only use if I really, really needed sleep.
Click to expand...

I used about 500mg a night for 8-12 weeks and the cycled off.

I was sleeping very little between a full time job and full course load in school.

It can be habit forming if you let it become that way. If you start taking more than you should then yes it can be habit forming but honestly 500mg-1g a few times a week is fine.

Just my two cents
 
Daycrawler said:
I used about 500mg a night for 8-12 weeks and the cycled off.

I was sleeping very little between a full time job and full course load in school.

It can be habit forming if you let it become that way. If you start taking more than you should then yes it can be habit forming but honestly 500mg-1g a few times a week is fine.

Just my two cents
Click to expand...

Did you find that you slept more deeply, awakened more refreshed with those reduced rest hours than you would have without Phenibut?
Did it knock you out, like switch off the brain chatter so you got to sleep faster?
 
Daycrawler said:
I used about 500mg a night for 8-12 weeks and the cycled off.

I was sleeping very little between a full time job and full course load in school.

It can be habit forming if you let it become that way. If you start taking more than you should then yes it can be habit forming but honestly 500mg-1g a few times a week is fine.

Just my two cents
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
Daycrawler said:
I used about 500mg a night for 8-12 weeks and the cycled off.

I was sleeping very little between a full time job and full course load in school.

It can be habit forming if you let it become that way. If you start taking more than you should then yes it can be habit forming but honestly 500mg-1g a few times a week is fine.

Just my two cents
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, you were able to use a low dose every day for two or three months without any problems? I've always wondered if the tolerance/addiction would be greatly reduced (or not occur at all) if someone stayed below 500 mg every day. It always seemed like people had the most problems when taking a high dose (2+ grams) every day over an extended period of time because they were chasing a high...instead of just staying with a low dose for minor anxiety relief or help with sleep.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Just to clarify, you were able to use a low dose every day for two or three months without any problems? I've always wondered if the tolerance/addiction would be greatly reduced (or not occur at all) if someone stayed below 500 mg every day. It always seemed like people had the most problems when taking a high dose (2+ grams) every day over an extended period of time because they were chasing a high...instead of just staying with a low dose for minor anxiety relief or help with sleep.
Click to expand...

I know I was able to.
 
cheeky1 said:
Did you find that you slept more deeply, awakened more refreshed with those reduced rest hours than you would have without Phenibut?
Did it knock you out, like switch off the brain chatter so you got to sleep faster?
Click to expand...

Cheeky, I can't speak for Daycrawler but in my experience pheni behaves as a mild muscle relaxant at lower doses (500-750mg) and general sedative at higher (1,000mg+) It's effective for somatic tension states to relax, but the central effect is too long-lived for a sleeper IMO. If you don't go to bed early (and it's probably already late if you're resorting to a sleep aid, lol) then don't be surprised if there is some annoying residual hypotonia the next morning.

Oh and migraine. It seems to help with alleviation of cluster migraine much like benzos can, but IME it's crucial to dose during the prodrome and not wait until it's fully developed!

As for addiction, it never hinted at habituation for me, but I did know a women who took about 15g one time in an attempt to "piss off her husband" and experience protracted respiratory depression with no further sequela after ~24hrs. She was also fond of alcohol, so perhaps it shares a similar addictive profile? Just speculation.
 
DR.D said:
Cheeky, I can't speak for Daycrawler but in my experience pheni behaves as a mild muscle relaxant at lower doses (500-750mg) and general sedative at higher (1,000mg+) It's effective for somatic tension states to relax, but the central effect is too long-lived for a sleeper IMO. If you don't go to bed early (and it's probably already late if you're resorting to a sleep aid, lol) then don't be surprised if there is some annoying residual hypotonia the next morning.

Oh and migraine. It seems to help with alleviation of cluster migraine much like benzos can, but IME it's crucial to dose during the prodrome and not wait until it's fully developed!

As for addiction, it never hinted at habituation for me, but I did know a women who took about 15g one time in an attempt to "piss off her husband" and experience protracted respiratory depression with no further sequela after ~24hrs. She was also fond of alcohol, so perhaps it shares a similar addictive profile? Just speculation.
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks for sharing!
 
Ive had sleep issues for more than a decade, tried melatonin, ambien, etc etc. I started using ksm-66 and PES Truzma a few months ago and my sleep quality has really skyrocketed. I haven't had as deep of sleep with the quantity of dreams I do now since I was a teenager.
 
DR.D said:
Cheeky, I can't speak for Daycrawler but in my experience pheni behaves as a mild muscle relaxant at lower doses (500-750mg) and general sedative at higher (1,000mg+) It's effective for somatic tension states to relax, but the central effect is too long-lived for a sleeper IMO. If you don't go to bed early (and it's probably already late if you're resorting to a sleep aid, lol) then don't be surprised if there is some annoying residual hypotonia the next morning.

Oh and migraine. It seems to help with alleviation of cluster migraine much like benzos can, but IME it's crucial to dose during the prodrome and not wait until it's fully developed!

As for addiction, it never hinted at habituation for me, but I did know a women who took about 15g one time in an attempt to "piss off her husband" and experience protracted respiratory depression with no further sequela after ~24hrs. She was also fond of alcohol, so perhaps it shares a similar addictive profile? Just speculation.
Click to expand...

Very good, thank you. I was hoping it would be suitable for short duration sleep, to ensure I get max deep sleep between shifts & college etc. What I don't want to be doing is attempting to study, or operate heavy machinery, whilst drowsy. Chasing that with stims is not a great idea either. Hello dependency issues.

Muscle relaxation is not an issue. I generally don't go to bed early & quick shift turnaround can mean 4 - 5 hours of sleep, same for an early start. Next month I throw 3 days of class per week into the mix....for 5 months. What I want is deeper, restful sleep to offset my sleep apnoea (keeps my sleep patterns too shallow).

Tough call. It certainly does appear to offer different results for different people. I might grab a cheap bottle of Phenibut & see how I react.
 
Oldnewb said:
Ive had sleep issues for more than a decade, tried melatonin, ambien, etc etc. I started using ksm-66 and PES Truzma a few months ago and my sleep quality has really skyrocketed. I haven't had as deep of sleep with the quantity of dreams I do now since I was a teenager.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good, healthful, basic and cheap formula to start with. My gf just takes the ZMA with me and she is amazed every night at how it makes her sleepy (which may be slightly psychosomatic) and I truly believe it gives me more restful sleep.

Just to be clear since I appear to be defending phenibut...I am not saying to not use caution and I'm not saying to just use it with no worries. I use basics like ZMA and GABA and add phenibut when I need a boost, or just want to enjoy some heavy sleep.
 
cheeky1 said:
Did you find that you slept more deeply, awakened more refreshed with those reduced rest hours than you would have without Phenibut?
Did it knock you out, like switch off the brain chatter so you got to sleep faster?
Click to expand...

jarrellt67 said:
Just to clarify, you were able to use a low dose every day for two or three months without any problems? I've always wondered if the tolerance/addiction would be greatly reduced (or not occur at all) if someone stayed below 500 mg every day. It always seemed like people had the most problems when taking a high dose (2+ grams) every day over an extended period of time because they were chasing a high...instead of just staying with a low dose for minor anxiety relief or help with sleep.
Click to expand...

Yes to all of these.

It helped me to fall asleep faster.
 
Daycrawler said:
Yes to all of these.

It helped me to fall asleep faster.
Click to expand...

Awesome, thank you.
How does it make you feel upon waking? Any (lasting) drowsiness?
 
I'm loving Dream n Grow. The kratom had me a little concerned but I can't feel it a bit if I don't get to sleep fast enough. But my sleep is deeper than its been in a long time. Maybe comparable to 75-100 mg trazodone.
 
McCrew530 said:
I used it daily for a couple of months some times upwards of 3 grams a night. It is able to pass the blood brain barrier and acts as a gaba antagonist, and for that reason I was using it as a way to quit drinking so much. Anyway I never once craved it, yea if I took too much I felt like sh!t the next day but nothing like a bad hang over. And when I wanted to stop I stopped. No withdrawals no sleepless nights, no cravings. Just cessation. Now I may be a special case but I doubt it, the high you get is slight relaxation, little to no euphoria, and if you take too much you get dizzy and tired... not exactly a party. I found it therapeutic for its purpose but nothing recreational.
Click to expand...

For me, back in active addiction, GHB, GBL, benzos, and phenibut were all an every day thing. Maybe it's just me, but GABAergic drugs were very addicting for me. Such is why I urge so much caution for phenibut.
 
Out Cold is my go to. I work nightshift so I have to sleep during the day which is impossible sometimes.. Out Cold does me well, very often. It winds me down but does an even better job at keeping me asleep.
 
ManimalPatB said:
Yeah, it is one of the better sleep aids with a great profile that I have taken. I haven't noticed any addictive nature to the Phenibut (not that it isn't there, but I haven't noticed anything)

That's CRAZY, melatonin is handed out like candy here
Click to expand...

I've tried this, and works 100%. It knocks me out and careful you will or can sleep 8-11 hours. I'm use to 5-6 hours, if you double scoop, I will sleep for 8-9 easy!
 
I actually fall asleep after sex....so if that doesn't work then any of the above supplement suggestions should do it
 
Honestly the ONLY real sleep aid that works everytime for me is PHENIBUT! When i really cant sleep at all i take 1gr of phenibut and it knocks me out. I use it only when i really need it like 3-4 times x month (becasue the tollerence build up very quick and it is also very addictive) Other ingredients are ok (valerian,zma,passionflowers) but not even close to the phenibut effects.
 
GreenMachineX said:
For me, back in active addiction, GHB, GBL, benzos, and phenibut were all an every day thing. Maybe it's just me, but GABAergic drugs were very addicting for me. Such is why I urge so much caution for phenibut.
Click to expand...

I agree, if someone has an addiction to gaba Phenibut may not be the best option.
 
Well guys, thanks for all of the info you've posted, particularly regarding Phenibut. :bigok:
Just gave SNS 500mg Phenibut caps a crack. I tried 1000mg first night - not bad. 2nd night 1500mg & slept like a baby, woke ready to rock & roll, no drowsiness. 3rd night - 2000mg - no apparent benefit over 1500mg. 4th night - went back to trusty old valerian + melatonin (2.5mg, should have dropped 5mg) & not as good as the phenibut, woke a little drowsy & not as sharp as the use of phenibut.

No urge to take more Phenibut, but now I know how it works for me i'll definitely make good use of it when needed. Like tonight...college tomorrow morn, then work afterwards = 16 hour day. I want some good sleep tonight!
 
Nothing has been working for me lately.

the stuff that usually does work are the more potent benzo and ambien(till the tolerance builds up in a few days).

I just bought doxylamine succinate which I hate because of the horrible hang over but over the counter its much more potent than regular benadryl.
 
anab0lix said:
Nothing has been working for me lately.

the stuff that usually does work are the more potent benzo and ambien(till the tolerance builds up in a few days).

I just bought doxylamine succinate which I hate because of the horrible hang over but over the counter its much more potent than regular benadryl.
Click to expand...

Geez, that sucks. Are you not sleeping at all? I don't know anything about such pharma sleep aids & hope to never need to, tbh.
Might be time for meditation practice...clear the mind :31:
 
cheeky1 said:
Geez, that sucks. Are you not sleeping at all? I don't know anything about such pharma sleep aids & hope to never need to, tbh.
Might be time for meditation practice...clear the mind :31:
Click to expand...
Ptsd, depression, anxiety..etc

it's tough to get good sleep. I envy people who can fall asleep and wake up with out a problem.

i either can't sleep or when I do it's just not usually quality sleep.

Maybe a week or two in a year for some reason I sleep like a normal human being but the bad cycle repeats eventually.

the mind is a weird thing
 
anab0lix said:
Ptsd, depression, anxiety..etc

it's tough to get good sleep. I envy people who can fall asleep and wake up with out a problem.

i either can't sleep or when I do it's just not usually quality sleep.
Click to expand...

I feel for you mate, I really do. I had 9 or 10 days straight of insomnia once myself & it was horrible, I can't imagine what living with ongoing sleep deprivation must be like.

In all seriousness, you may actually receive great benefit from the likes of yoga & meditation. There's heaps of different types of each out there & both have been shown to greatly improve the health & wellbeing of people with PTSD & anxiety issues, returned veterans of particular note. It may be a case of trying a few modalities to see which sits right for you, & it won't be easy at first, but if you're not currently practising any then it may be worth consideration.
 
cheeky1 said:
I feel for you mate, I really do. I had 9 or 10 days straight of insomnia once myself & it was horrible, I can't imagine what living with ongoing sleep deprivation must be like.

In all seriousness, you may actually receive great benefit from the likes of yoga & meditation. There's heaps of different types of each out there & both have been shown to greatly improve the health & wellbeing of people with PTSD & anxiety issues, returned veterans of particular note. It may be a case of trying a few modalities to see which sits right for you, & it won't be easy at first, but if you're not currently practising any then it may be worth consideration.
Click to expand...
You're definitely right. I need to try a different approach.

I will definitely look into meditation. With a sleep habit like mine, I'm borderline dysfunctional in the day time. Bad sleep= bad everything.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm loving Dream n Grow. The kratom had me a little concerned but I can't feel it a bit if I don't get to sleep fast enough. But my sleep is deeper than its been in a long time. Maybe comparable to 75-100 mg trazodone.
Click to expand...
I've changed my mind on this product. The hangover effects even from 1 cap feel terrible. It's a very dirty feeling. Hard to describe, but pair that with the rebound anxiety...no longer a fan.
 
Phenibut is a great sleep aid if you are tolerable and don't become dependent. GABA (or even ashwagandha) for relaxation and calming before bed, and then melatonin to finish the deal.
 
This is still one of my favorites as it not only helps put you out it keeps you asleep.

Invalid Link Removed
 
I tried Revivarant G last night at a half scoop. It was magical! I slept so awesome and woke up feeling great. I know it has phenibut, so I'll have to be very careful.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I tried Revivarant G last night at a half scoop. It was magical! I slept so awesome and woke up feeling great. I know it has phenibut, so I'll have to be very careful.
Click to expand...

That's my experience with it. Most powerful sleep aid. If you overdo it, you will be dizzy when you wake up. But half a scoop usually gives amazing and deep sleep with no issues. Sometimes 1/4 scoop does it.
 
HIT4ME said:
That's my experience with it. Most powerful sleep aid. If you overdo it, you will be dizzy when you wake up. But half a scoop usually gives amazing and deep sleep with no issues. Sometimes 1/4 scoop does it.
Click to expand...
I've been looking for something powerful enough to "turn off" the pre workout I use, but it seems the only thing capable is something with phenibut.
 
Nothing touches Growth Factor XT for me.

When I'm not using that, Relora plus Ashwagandah.

Liquid Benadryl also, but I don't suggest that long term at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top