DOJ to announce actions against dietary supplements makers

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T-Bone said:
Sarms safe...I don't know how you'd draw that conclusion.
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Of course their safe. Anything tested on a couple of rats is 100% legit in my book
 
Woody said:
Not sure I follow where you are going
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I was bringing it up in jest because I couldn't help but think about all the conspiratorial concerns brought up then about how much damage the government could do to the industry and "innovation".

When we see the evidence presented in this case, most rational people will understand that said prosecution is in the consumer's interest, that this industry is likely full of similar behavior, and that closer inspection by the appropriate agencies is not just warranted but urgent.
 
LLN said:
I was bringing it up in jest because I couldn't help but think about all the conspiratorial concerns brought up then about how much damage the government could do to the industry and "innovation".

When we see the evidence presented in this case, most rational people will understand that said prosecution is in the consumer's interest, that this industry is likely full of similar behavior, and that closer inspection by the appropriate agencies is not just warranted but urgent.
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I agree. I think the comments regarding the destruction of innovation was if the FDA required testing and sampling of every new supplement.

But, I think the FDA and other regulatory agencies are generally for the public good.
 
Woody said:
I agree. I think the comments regarding the destruction of innovation was if the FDA required testing and sampling of every new supplement.

But, I think the FDA and other regulatory agencies are generally for the public good.
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These are two sides of the same coin however. A lawsuit can't undo the damage, but it does bring to light the existence (and possible scale) of a problem. Such problem can only be prevented with proper oversight from the beginning thus the FDA.

Such concerns also seemed centered around the caricature of a corrupt puppet government run by incompetent bureaucrats, but surely if such a view of the world held it's reach wouldn't be confined to the FDA; we'd expect to see it at the DOJ as well. It seems to me however that this case suggests a different reality holding there.
 
I'll admit that my knee jerk reaction was "f*ck, another government crackdown on people trying to improve their health and wellbeing", but to be honest that doesn't seem to be what this is. This sounds like it could be a very good thing - if I'm reading it correctly, they're not actually banning any new ingredients or cracking down on ingredients they previously turned a blind eye to, they're going after people who have deliberately lied to the public about their products, and conspired with others at the manufacturing end to forge safety and quality control documentation.

For those who are suggesting that this will be catastrophic to the industry, how? It will be catastrophic to those companies which want to screw us as consumers, and leave us with those honest ones which aren't bullsh!tting us about what's in their stuff.

That sounds like a pretty good thing in my book. Am I missing something?
 
conkertheking said:
I'll admit that my knee jerk reaction was "f*ck, another government crackdown on people trying to improve their health and wellbeing", but to be honest that doesn't seem to be what this is. This sounds like it could be a very good thing - if I'm reading it correctly, they're not actually banning any new ingredients or cracking down on ingredients they previously turned a blind eye to, they're going after people who have deliberately lied to the public about their products, and conspired with others at the manufacturing end to forge safety and quality control documentation.

For those who are suggesting that this will be catastrophic to the industry, how? It will be catastrophic to those companies which want to screw us as consumers, and leave us with those honest ones which aren't bullsh!tting us about what's in their stuff.

That sounds like a pretty good thing in my book. Am I missing something?
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There are some industry standard practices here that are going to be tried in court.

Mainly the practice of including a synthetic ingredient and labeling it as an extract. This is typically used to get around the entirely untenable FDA NDI process, by saying that the botanical was in the food supply prior to DSHEA.

Stopping this practice would remove many ingredients from the market, most of which are entirely safe and pose no risk to consumers at all, some of which not so much.

This also provides significant impetus for more stringent regulations on the industry by congresspeople who want to save the children and need to author a new bill for the impression of doing so as opposed to dedicating more resources to enforcement of existing regulations.

Let me be clear. I am not defending USPLabs here, their actions as alleged are deplorable, and if true they can burn in hell. But the scope of this indictment extends far beyond USP.

In the end, USPlabs will NOT be the last to fall and I imagine we will see multiple similar indictments come out in the near future.
 
De__eB said:
Stopping this practice would remove many ingredients from the market, most of which are entirely safe and pose no risk to consumers at all, some of which not so much.

This also provides significant impetus for more stringent regulations on the industry by congresspeople who want to save the children and need to author a new bill for the impression of doing so as opposed to dedicating more resources to enforcement of existing regulations.
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this is what I am worried about
 
Honestly, Holms is jacked. She's way bigger now and she looked 100000x better than what she ever has. She never even looked that good in Legion when she fought Jane Blows.

Not saying she took PEDs, but if she gets popped I wouldn't be surprised.
 
De__eB said:
There are some industry standard practices here that are going to be tried in court.

Mainly the practice of including a synthetic ingredient and labeling it as an extract. This is typically used to get around the entirely untenable FDA NDI process, by saying that the botanical was in the food supply prior to DSHEA.

Stopping this practice would remove many ingredients from the market, most of which are entirely safe and pose no risk to consumers at all, some of which not so much.

This also provides significant impetus for more stringent regulations on the industry by congresspeople who want to save the children and need to author a new bill for the impression of doing so as opposed to dedicating more resources to enforcement of existing regulations.

Let me be clear. I am not defending USPLabs here, their actions as alleged are deplorable, and if true they can burn in hell. But the scope of this indictment extends far beyond USP.

In the end, USPlabs will NOT be the last to fall and I imagine we will see multiple similar indictments come out in the near future.
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Out of curiosity, which ingredients would this potentially remove from the market? Would something like synthetic caffeine anhydrous still be allowed, since it wouldn't fall under the NDI category? Would this apply to something like huperzine-A, which is a NDI? Would companies just have to use legitimate extracts as opposed to synthetically derived huperzine?

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that some companies would inflate/falsify the content of an "extract" by adding a synthetically derived compound to a raw powder or less concentrated extract to make it appear as if it is truly a high % extract?
 
i wonder if the aegeline in Alpahmine will be hit as well?
 
Is this the same usplabs as the one on this forum with a new preworkout?
 
datsthat said:
Thanks.

Would you are anybody else consume their new beta test preworkout promo?
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Hahah I know I sure wouldn't. I don't see how they can bounce back after this, they have been rocked by too many scandals.
 
FDA is going after AMP citrate now BTW. Get it before that's banned. Anyway, am I really the only one who thought USPLabs DMAA was completely synthetic. I never thought for a second that it was naturally occurring in any regard. It was pretty obvious they were just making up some BS. I personally like the synthetic DMAA. I could give 2 ****s if it's natural
 
BlockBuilder said:
FDA is going after AMP citrate now BTW. Get it before that's banned. Anyway, am I really the only one who thought USPLabs DMAA was completely synthetic. I never thought for a second that it was naturally occurring in any regard. It was pretty obvious they were just making up some BS. I personally like the synthetic DMAA. I could give 2 ****s if it's natural
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It's so much more than that after reading half of the indictment. It's not about synthetic vs natural or any of that. It's about the lies, the false press releases, the liver toxicity ingredient and then STILL trying to sell it after people had liver failure. **** USPLabs.
 
carmaf said:
It's so much more than that after reading half of the indictment. It's not about synthetic vs natural or any of that. It's about the lies, the false press releases, the liver toxicity ingredient and then STILL trying to sell it after people had liver failure. **** USPLabs.
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Oh yea you mean with the oxyelite pro version 2? Ya I never used that thank god. I admit that's messed up. I remember hearing about all of those liver failure cases starting up in Hawaii
 
BlockBuilder said:
FDA is going after AMP citrate now BTW. Get it before that's banned. Anyway, am I really the only one who thought USPLabs DMAA was completely synthetic. I never thought for a second that it was naturally occurring in any regard. It was pretty obvious they were just making up some BS. I personally like the synthetic DMAA. I could give 2 ****s if it's natural
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I'm also fine with using synthetic DMAA for my personal use, just as I have no problems with synthetic caffeine anhydrous, but a company obviously can't be selling a product claiming that their DMAA is from an extract when it's synthetically derived. You may have suspected that it was really synthetically derived DMAA, and not minded that, but other people likely had no idea, and bought it under the assumption that it was indeed a natural extract.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I'm also fine with using synthetic DMAA for my personal use, just as I have no problems with synthetic caffeine anhydrous, but a company obviously can't be selling a product claiming that their DMAA is from an extract when it's synthetically derived. You may have suspected that it was really synthetically derived DMAA, and not minded that, but other people likely had no idea, and bought it under the assumption that it was indeed a natural extract.
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You're right...that's all I can say....you're definitely right and what they did was wrong
 
carmaf said:
I gotta say muscleupcrohn has been spot on with his posts. He seems knowledgeable, especially about nootropics, and informative. Kudos man.
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Thanks man, that means a lot. I try. Supplements are a passion for me, and have really improved my quality of life in many aspects. I want to be able to help others by spreading some knowledge so they can do the same, and I'd hate to see access to safe and effective supplements restricted/eliminated, and good companies having their reputations tarnished and/or their ability to put out effective supplements hampered by some bad apples.
 
On my phone so I can't do a huge post, but wasn't USPLabs absolved not too long ago by a thread here?
 
Some other points from the indictment that got my interest were:

Faking COA's

Having (9?) actual chemicals sent, not labeling them each, but batch naming them "Green Coffee Sample 1, 2, 3"....

Wanting to use an (untested) extract - but being unable to find it in China, using powdered root instead (still calling it an extract) - knowing it was Liver Toxic - but since they were lying about the extract, they knew there wasn't what they considered an effective dose in there, so they thought it wouldn't hurt the liver.

Prop blend defense anyone? :)
 
HIM said:
Anyone happen to know what other products SK labs has the contracts for?
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Already asked - Google may know.

Is USP Labs "affiliated" with any other company? Like recently IML and IMR posted they were related. Any "relationships" with USP Labs and any other companies? Too lazy to hit up a Linked In Search.
 
Insane claims , why would usp want testers amidst this scandal . COULD this spell trouble for the testers ? Im not sure what exactly is in this stuff. HOW many other companies are involved in this practice ?
 
bighulksmash said:
Insane claims , why would usp want testers amidst this scandal . COULD this spell trouble for the testers ? Im not sure what exactly is in this stuff. HOW many other companies are involved in this practice ?
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Unless a tester knew of these allegations and worked with USP labs then no, no trouble for people chosen to beta test a product. A person chosen via a forum to try a new product has done nothing wrong.
 
Woody said:
Unless a tester knew of these allegations and worked with USP labs then no, no trouble for people chosen to beta test a product. A person chosen via a forum to try a new product has done nothing wrong.
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Well thats good to know because I can't afford any more trouble at this point and I'm really looking forward to trying out this product from what I hear it's going to be a really good experience and I've always supported USPLabs I've always had good products from them
 
bighulksmash said:
Well thats good to know because I can't afford any more trouble at this point and I'm really looking forward to trying out this product from what I hear it's going to be a really good experience and I've always supported USPLabs I've always had good products from them
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The DOJ isn't gonna kick down your door and arrest you for trying a product from a company that did illegal things. That's like arresting people for driving Volkswagens. Don't worry.
 
Woody said:
I was selected to beta test it. Contemplating sending it back. Not too sure I'm comfortable testing it given the accusations.
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Me too, but the more and more I read about this, the less and less I want anything to do with usplabs. Don't get me wrong, I am not a saint, but I try to be as honest as possible and try to treat others as I want to be treated. I try to surround myself with other like minded folks.

Any usplabs reps want to chime in?
 
datsthat said:
Me too, but the more and more I read about this, the less and less I want anything to do with usplabs. Don't get me wrong, I am not a saint, but I try to be as honest as possible and try to treat others as I want to be treated. I try to surround myself with other like minded folks.

Any usplabs reps want to chime in?
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They're probably going to be radio silent for awhile.
 
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