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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Would a natural T-booster like Viron provide enough of a boost to help with lethargy on the second half of an Ostarine cycle? Or would it not do much simply because you will be suppressed one way or another?

Maybe better to save it for part of PCT if it's no good during the cycle?
 
All Creation said:
Would a natural T-booster like Viron provide enough of a boost to help with lethargy on the second half of an Ostarine cycle? Or would it not do much simply because you will be suppressed one way or another?

Maybe better to save it for part of PCT if it's no good during the cycle?
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Personally I'd use a dhea product like dermacrine for lethargy, you can also use 4 andro or epi andro
 
I can't find the appropriate section to ask this so please forgive me If I am posting inappropriately -

LGD or a 3rd bottle of rad or more triumph?? I am cutting. I am going to make a purchase today , advice? I want to stay full and pumped while I cut . I am carb cycling.
Anyone seen primeval andarine? capped s4 i'm very interested - had great results with RC
 
muay thai said:
I can't find the appropriate section to ask this so please forgive me If I am posting inappropriately -

LGD or a 3rd bottle of rad or more triumph?? I am cutting. I am going to make a purchase today , advice? I want to stay full and pumped while I cut . I am carb cycling.
Anyone seen primeval andarine? capped s4 i'm very interested - had great results with RC
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I'm sure others will chime in, but my vote would be for RAD. LGD is great and a fav of mine, but I've seen better fat loss in users on RAD vs LGD while still maintaining or gaining mass.

No experience with Triumph.

I've seen people get great results with S4 but the possible vision sides worry me tbh.
 
muay thai said:
I can't find the appropriate section to ask this so please forgive me If I am posting inappropriately -

LGD or a 3rd bottle of rad or more triumph?? I am cutting. I am going to make a purchase today , advice? I want to stay full and pumped while I cut . I am carb cycling.
Anyone seen primeval andarine? capped s4 i'm very interested - had great results with RC
Click to expand...

Triumph without a doubt. It will be the most effective cutter of the 3 named compounds
 
I was reading something about LGD and Joe mentioned he had atrophy of the testes. Is there a way to combat that or does it reverse after the cycle?
 
MistrJay said:
I was reading something about LGD and Joe mentioned he had atrophy of the testes. Is there a way to combat that or does it reverse after the cycle?
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Atrophy is a common side effect when taking anything anabolic . In a simplified statement your body sees an increase in androgens and believes it doesn't need to produce as much which occurs through the Hpta . One component of the Hpta is the testes . Yes after cycle your testes return to normal that's the purpose of us recommending a serm so that everything gets back to normal faster instead of trying to making the Hpta work harder with out one .
 
F0xx3r said:
Hastur , sent u a PM with some Qs
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Hey F0xx3r, I get quite a few PM's on a daily basis regarding SARMs and whatnot, and tend to answer them from oldest to most recent. Rest assured, I got your PM and will be caught up tonight to respond!

All Creation said:
Would a natural T-booster like Viron provide enough of a boost to help with lethargy on the second half of an Ostarine cycle? Or would it not do much simply because you will be suppressed one way or another?

Maybe better to save it for part of PCT if it's no good during the cycle?
Click to expand...

There is no point in taking a testosterone booster while on a suppressive cycle, it will do nothing. Save your money, use a test base while on cycle, and if you wish to use a testosterone booster the best time would be in PCT. With a SERM of course.

Joedoubledose said:
Personally I'd use a dhea product like dermacrine for lethargy, you can also use 4 andro or epi andro
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Agreed!

muay thai said:
I can't find the appropriate section to ask this so please forgive me If I am posting inappropriately -

LGD or a 3rd bottle of rad or more triumph?? I am cutting. I am going to make a purchase today , advice? I want to stay full and pumped while I cut . I am carb cycling.
Anyone seen primeval andarine? capped s4 i'm very interested - had great results with RC
Click to expand...

yates84 said:
Triumph without a doubt. It will be the most effective cutter of the 3 named compounds
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I just wanted to second Yates' comment, I too would go for Triumph, it's the stronger of the mentioned compounds.

MistrJay said:
I was reading something about LGD and Joe mentioned he had atrophy of the testes. Is there a way to combat that or does it reverse after the cycle?
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Anything that binds to the androgen receptor is going to result in suppression and/or shutdown. This typically implies atrophy of the testes, though you may not visually see it, it is likely occurring during a cycle regardless. You really cannot combat this on cycle, but it does reverse after the cycle if you do the proper PCT. In fact, that is the point of PCT. You restart you HPTA, which results in your testes regaining any lost size and restarting endogenous testosterone production.

Joedoubledose said:
Atrophy is a common side effect when taking anything anabolic . In a simplified statement your body sees an increase in androgens and believes it doesn't need to produce as much which occurs through the Hpta . One component of the Hpta is the testes . Yes after cycle your testes return to normal that's the purpose of us recommending a serm so that everything gets back to normal faster instead of trying to making the Hpta work harder with out one .
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Joe is on point! I'm just backing him up here!
 
4 weeks in of first ever cycle 5/7.5/10/10/10 LGD also arimacare pro and hc generate . Everthing working but libido seems a bit flat clicking joints taking fish oil no other sides. Strength up in the gym getting some good pumps its c&p brand feel tight but that could be with training hard as i am pretty motivated at the min pct have clomid but not sure to use might try have some pure labs clomidex that has some arimistane in and daa see how it goes have put on 3 or 4 lb would prob try another brand may be underdosed but has i am new to this not sure what to expect have epistane for start of new year
 
foofighter said:
4 weeks in of first ever cycle 5/7.5/10/10/10 LGD also arimacare pro and hc generate . Everthing working but libido seems a bit flat clicking joints taking fish oil no other sides. Strength up in the gym getting some good pumps its c&p brand feel tight but that could be with training hard as i am pretty motivated at the min pct have clomid but not sure to use might try have some pure labs clomidex that has some arimistane in and daa see how it goes have put on 3 or 4 lb would prob try another brand may be underdosed but has i am new to this not sure what to expect have epistane for start of new year
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Take that bottle of hcgenerate and throw it in the trash. Grab some dermacrine and get things jumping again. Hcgenerate is absolutely useless while on cycle, so is every other herbal test booster
 
Yeah was worried about the nuts when i bought it but have read you guys dont rate since and its expensive dont think i will bother it again thank for the advice
 
yates84 said:
Take that bottle of hcgenerate and throw it in the trash. Grab some dermacrine and get things jumping again. Hcgenerate is absolutely useless while on cycle, so is every other herbal test booster
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I agree wholeheartedly, I feel bad when I see guys getting burned on HCGenerate.

foofighter said:
Yeah was worried about the nuts when i bought it but have read you guys dont rate since and its expensive dont think i will bother it again thank for the advice
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On cycle the best thing I could recommend is taking Taurine, which appears to have a protective effect on the testes during a cycle. It won't prevent suppression or shutdown, but nothing will when taking in exogenous androgen receptor agonists. If you have a solid PCT with a reliable SERM, you can be at ease, that will take care of the majority of people restarting their HPTA.
 
foofighter said:
Yeah was worried about the nuts when i bought it but have read you guys dont rate since and its expensive dont think i will bother it again thank for the advice
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I know of another forum that actually pushes that stuff for on cycle use. It's purely a sales gimmick. Fadgodia is great during pct but there are way cheaper sources
 
yates84 said:
I know of another forum that actually pushes that stuff for on cycle use. It's purely a sales gimmick. Fadgodia is great during pct but there are way cheaper sources
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Mhmm, I believe I know the forum you're talking about, they push the same cycle products on everyone. But science simply doesn't back on-cycle testosterone boosters, increasing LH or FSH while taking a suppressive compound will not mitigate the effects on the HPTA nor prevent suppression. So it's money down the drain. Save your money for a solid restart in your PCT, there's a reason why its the standard. Because it works.
 
foofighter said:
Just dabbling with a few products to see what works and what doesnt but your input is appreciated
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That's how we all learn, man. No problem there. There's a lot of information out there, and a lot of contradictions as well. We've all tried our fair share of products, I assure you!
 
I really feel like this is one of the only forums that doesn't push their own ridiculous products, which is why I trust people here and I don't anywhere else.
 
Some say only use the serm if you really need or do you think you should run it no matter even if you dont feel that suppressed
 
I think it would be hard to tell just by how you feel. The only way would be to get blood work and see if you're suppressed. I will always recommend a SERM for anything hormonal. They're so cheap and easily accessible it's not very smart to do without one.
 
foofighter said:
Some say only use the serm if you really need or do you think you should run it no matter even if you dont feel that suppressed
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The people who say that are highly ignorant of what suppression/shutdown is, and such a poor recommendation can have long lasting ramifications. Do not roll the dice when it comes to your testes and HPTA. I'm quite serious, I do not want to see people losing muscle gains, strength gains, feeling lethargic, getting depressed...
 
rascal14 said:
I'm pretty sure all vision problems people have had with Clomid stop when they cease use.
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It's not like Clomid is the only SERM available either. I personally like the latest generation SERMs for my PCT. Toremifene is my go-to, it appears to have the least amount of side effects of all the SERMs, with the lowest rate of incidence as well.
 
yates84 said:
I know of another forum that actually pushes that stuff for on cycle use. It's purely a sales gimmick. Fadgodia is great during pct but there are way cheaper sources
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I think they trick ppl into thinking it's the real hcg!
And Hastur what incidence?

and rascal14 there is still some reps have no shame here, but overall I agree with I start to like this forum alot.
 
hamdysayed said:
I think they trick ppl into thinking it's the real hcg!
And Hastur what incidence?

and rascal14 there is still some reps have no shame here, but overall I agree with I start to like this forum alot.
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I don't have the studies at hand to give you exact number of the rate of incidence, but what I'm saying is, compared to a SERM like Nolvadex, the risks of the same side effects with Toremifene is far less likely statistically speaking. You're chances of encountering side effects from Toremifene versus Nolvadex is significantly reduced, if I recall correctly.
 
I've been wanting to try Torem. My first PCT was RC Nolva. My second PCT was pharm Nolva and pharm Clomid. There was a huge difference in recovery between the two. I know that combo works for me so I will use that for this cycle as well. I don't want to experiment with Torem on a 15+ week cycle of Test and Tren. Lol
 
rascal14 said:
I've been wanting to try Torem. My first PCT was RC Nolva. My second PCT was pharm Nolva and pharm Clomid. There was a huge difference in recovery between the two. I know that combo works for me so I will use that for this cycle as well. I don't want to experiment with Torem on a 15+ week cycle of Test and Tren. Lol
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Haha, I understand completely. You want to stick with what works when it really counts. Stick with what works for you, by all means! However, perhaps in the future, consider Toremifene. You hear a lot of guys saying its the fastest restart they've seen with a SERM, and that's saying something.

muay thai said:
Yes clomid and nolva are outdated as well as arimidex. Raloxifene , exemestane, torimefene much better choices
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I agree with you 100%, safer choices are available, so I see no reason why we should choose to move forward with out anabolics but not our SERMs/AIs. A lot of guys have an 'old school only' frame of mind, but there really are a lot of benefits to be had with the latest generation SERMs/AIs. I've heard that Raloxifene is 2nd to none when it comes to a SERM that can knockout Gyno.
 
Just put myself in debt and ordered my stack - LGD/Carda, Ep1c unleashed & Dermacrine :D :D :D hoping to see some good gains!!! If anyone has any info or advice they want to throw my way on this cycle I'd appreciate it. Can never know too much!! Thanks for the help setting it up yates84. Will be logging my run too :)
 
Of course man wouldn't have a cycle sorted if it wasn't for you!!! ? can't wait myself ???
 
M.I.D said:
I would love to try torem but yet to find it over the pond in UK
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I find it interesting that you haven't seen it in the UK, it seems like outside the US it's easier to get various ancillaries, I would have assumed Toremifene was no different.
 
Gents, I'm going to jump on a SARM run to go with ArA for recomp. I am not looking for anything that suppresses at all. Thinking of running S-4 (Andarine) and GW-501516. I had gyno surgery a couple of years ago and not looking to relive that experience again (I.e. No Osta) Any recommendations on the stack? Would you add or remove anything?
 
Jeff5886 said:
Gents, I'm going to jump on a SARM run to go with ArA for recomp. I am not looking for anything that suppresses at all. Thinking of running S-4 (Andarine) and GW-501516. I had gyno surgery a couple of years ago and not looking to relive that experience again (I.e. No Osta) Any recommendations on the stack? Would you add or remove anything?
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If you don't want anything suppressive, then avoid SARM usage. S-4 is suppressive, as are all others SARMs, and indeed ALL compounds that can be classified as androgen receptor agonists. GW isn't a SARM, doesn't work via androgen receptors, so you could use it with ArA without any suppression and it would aid your recomping efforts.
 
Jeff5886 said:
What about adding mk-677?
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MK-677 is a growth hormone secretagogue. Also not a SARM. Also non-suppressive. And something I recommend to literally everyone no matter what phase they are in On Cycle, Post Cycle, Off Cycle. It has amazing benefits. There is a lot out information to be had on it, but it's safe to say it would compliment a non-suppressive recomp stack rather well.
 
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