Opinions on best Natural Test. booster?

[Admin]

I believe there are many threads backing up the increase in testosterone by ingredients such as LJ100 which has been confirmed by both research and some of the more "trusted" people in the industry. Debates with PA and others form years ago. If it dind't work for you, move on then...but that doen'st mean it won't work for everyone because if that was the case then creatine, ARA, epi, etc... would be useless as well..since they all have non responders.


BTW - There has been solid research on LJ100 and testosterone for years.

 

[thebigt]

the next time a test booster is offered for a free run in the promo section...i wonder how many of these detractors will come calling, lol!!!!

 

[rtmilburn]

the next time a test booster is offered for a free run in the promo section...i wonder how many of these detractors will come calling, lol!!!!

Im not dissing test booster in general i am just saying trib doesnt actually increase test thats it. I do believe there is stuff that works. Even trib works for libido and mood but not for test.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

the next time a test booster is offered for a free run in the promo section...i wonder how many of these detractors will come calling, lol!!!!

I offered to give the latest and greatest a TRUE test in Feb... no takers. Wonder why? (InB4 the "You'll say it doesn't work no matter what).

BigT - What kind of poundage increases on your 1-Rep Max Bench/Dead/Squat have you seen taking your favorite booster only?

The day these companies stop implying that the roid monsters in the ad copy got that way because of the supplement, and put a Soccer Player on the label with the words "libido" and "feel great" only - is the day I stop breaking balls. Until then... They are 'Boner', 'Feel Good' and maybe (expensive compared to E and Y-HCL) 'Fat Loss' pills - we all agree on that. They will not add poundage to your 1 Rep Max, or change your DEXA reading, over and above natural progression. Well, maybe the sheep thing will... 'Baaaaaaaaaaaa'

 

[Admin]

I offered to give the latest and greatest a TRUE test in Feb... no takers. Wonder why?

Yes, I'm sure they all fear you.

(InB4 the "You'll say it doesn't work no matter what).

You said it.

BigT - What kind of poundage increases on your 1-Rep Max Bench/Dead/Squat have you seen taking your favorite booster only?

Does it matter? You will claim its anectodal or he's just pushing a supp company. So why even ask the question when you won't beleive it anyway?

The day these companies stop implying that the roid monsters in the ad copy got that way because of the supplement, and put a Soccer Player on the label with the words "libido" and "feel great" only - is the day I stop breaking balls.

Oh look, its the "supplements companies are trying to fool me again" argument.

Until then... They are 'Boner', 'Feel Good' and maybe (expensive compared to E and Y-HCL) 'Fat Loss' pills - we all agree on that. They will not add poundage to your 1 Rep Max, or change your DEXA reading, over and above natural progression.

Actually libido pills have been shown to increase serum LH and FSH output...and thats independent of certain ingredients shown to raise testosterone.

Well, maybe the sheep thing will... 'Baaaaaaaaaaaa'

There are more sheep that just state "they are lying" than those actually looking at the possibilites. Its doens't take much effort to ridicule others and state "hey, no pubmed, no work".

I remember the experts said creatine didn't work. Its funded by the people selling it. I remember when the said ARA doen'st work. It will cause cancer. They said PA won't work. They said epi won't work. The sheep are the naysayers making the easy argument, not the people looking for possibilites. The sheep think n=1 (when they're the 1) means universal fact.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Testosterone!!!!!!! You know, and I know, exactly what the marketing tactic being used, is - that you deny it, is a little disheartening.

As for the rest, I see lots of deflection, but we've been here before so the reader can just decide for themselves.

 

[Admin]

Testosterone!!!!!!! You know, and I know, exactly what the marketing tactic being used, is - that you deny it, is a little disheartening.

And it does!! Have you even looked at the studies? Your argument is that it won't give the same results as injectable testosterone. Well DUH!

As for the rest, I see lots of deflection, but we've been here before so the reader can just decide for themselves.

Deflection? No, just my opinion of those that consistently "bust balls" over a supplement.

But come on dude, you *have* to make fun of Sheep Placenta! Just do it! Hahaha.

I havne't even seen that but it sounds funny. I was mainly looking at LJ100 and other herbs that actually show promise. What one company does in their marketing doen'st change that for me. Marketing is marketing......I also don't believe I will travel to exotic places because I buy a Jeep or get the hot chick because I buy a corvette.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

And it does!! Have you even looked at the studies? Your argument is that it won't give the same results as injectable testosterone. Well DUH!

I'm saying It won't even give you anything above natural progression. Show where I equated Boosters to Supra-physiological T? Hell we had *that* argument too - Not even T injections that keep you in range will do much - but let's not start that one again, LOL. I think I said show me something between 'Natural' and the most mild Prohormone (2-Step DHEAs). That seems fair to ask out of a T product, going by what is implied by the producers.

I think you deflected the 1RM ask question. If he types a number, it's out there for others to campare and share. Whether I believe him or not, is irrelevant.

I think you deflected my "Roid Monster in Ads" point with your reply.

I think you deflected with your reply about LH and FSH - Big Whoop, show me 5lbs on the DEXA or 10-15lbs on 1RM (or whatever is "fair" to ask of a booster, above natural progression). We *all* agree that hormones will go up - so? What's the end result/gain?

I fully agree that most of this stuff will raise levels of everything - but for $40/Month, if I ain't putting up more weight than just Protein and Sleep - money *not* well spent. If someone else is cool with banging their wife 6 times a week rather than 4 (only) - hey cool. But quit with the implications about mass and strength.

 

[Admin]

I'm saying It won't even give you anything above natural progression. Show where I equated Boosters to Supra-physiological T? Hell we had *that* argument too - Not even T injections that keep you in range will do much - but let's not start that one again, LOL. I think I said show me something between 'Natural' and the most mild Prohormone (2-Step DHEAs). That seems fair to ask out of a T product, going by what is implied by the producers.

Implied? You are the one making teh assumptions and if people don't assume like you do, you call them sheep.

The Ergogenic effects of Tongkat Ali (Eurycoma Longifolia)

Eurycoma longifolia, which contains quassinoids such as eurycomalacton, eurycomanon, and eurycomanol, has been reported to have aphrodisiac properties and to increase testosterone levels in men. Previous studies have established that the testosterone supplementation increases fat free mass, muscle strength, and muscle mass, which are important for physical function and athletic performance. Thus, the objective of this study was to investigate the effect of the increase in testosterone levels, obtained by administration of Eurycoma longifolia, on body composition and muscle strength and size in man. Fourteen healthy men performed an intense strength training programme with initial load of 60% RM (2 sets of 10 repetitions with 1 minute rest between, for 10 stations) on alternate days for five weeks. Simultaneously, seven men were randomly selected to consume 100 mg/day Eurycoma longifolia water soluble extract, and seven men received placebo. The intensity of the exercise was increased by 10% RM/week. Body composition, arm circumference, one repetition maximum (1 RM), and surface electromyography (sEMG) activity were measured and recorded one day before and after the five weeks of supplementation and intervention. The lean body mass of the treatment group showed a significant increment, from 52.26 (7.18) kg to 54.39 (7.43) kg (p = 0.012), but no significant changes in fat free mass were observed in the placebo group. Percentage body fat was significantly decreased in the treatment and placebo group, from 31.30 (5.48)% to 28.44 (6.43)% (p = 0.01) and from 22.83 (2.43)% to 21.33 (2.35)% (p = 0.001) respectively. The 1RM test showed a significant increase from 73.71 (16.63) to 78.71 (17.0) kg (p = 0.006) in the treatment group and from 77.29 (8.9) to 79.43 (8.8) kg (p = 0.011) in the placebo group. The increase in strength in the treatment group was larger than in the placebo group (6.78% and 2.77% respectively). The mean frequency of sEMG on the biceps in the treatment and placebo groups decreased significantly, from 121.77 (40.0) to 90.47 (64.6) µV (p = 0.012) and from 127.95 (30.9) to 98.8 (50.1) µV (p = 0.036) respectively. The treatment produced 2.92% greater reduction in electrical activity of the muscle measured at the end of the experiment compared with placebo. The mean arm circumference of the treatment group increased significantly by 1.8 cm after the supplementation, from 30.87 (1.88) to 32.67 (1.96) cm (p = 0.011), but there was no significant increase in the placebo group. The results suggest that water soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack increased fat free mass, reduced body fat, and increased muscle strength and size, and thus may have an ergogenic effect. Further investigations are warranted.

That tells me, there is something to it. You don't believe it? Don't buy it!

I think you deflected the 1RM ask question. If he types a number, it's out there for others to campare and share. Whether I believe him or not, is irrelevant.

How can I deflect when the question wasn't posed to me?

Whether you believe him or not IS totally relevant. You entire basis is there is no research and it won't help with muscle mass or 1rm based on YOUR results. If he tells you otherwise you've already said you won't beleive it becasue it anectodal evidence, yet your own anectodal evidence of it not doing anything for you is perfectly ok. So whats the point in asking?

I think you deflected my "Roid Monster in Ads" point with your reply.

How can I deflect your opinion. You don't like marketing. Get over it. Is that deflection? Its irrelevant to whether they work or not. You just have a bug up your ass about marketing. When they put those same roid monsters in creatine ads, do you complain about that as well?

I think you deflected with your reply about LH and FSH - Big Whoop, show me 5lbs on the DEXA or 10-15lbs on 1RM (or whatever is "fair" to ask of a booster, above natural progression). We *all* agree that hormones will go up - so? What's the end result/gain?

Look at study above. The initial research on LJ100 was as a libido booster. It later shows increasses in testosterone. I figured someone as well versed in this subject either knew that or put two and two together. I was wrong.

I fully agree that most of this stuff will raise levels of everything - but for $40/Month, if I ain't putting up more weight than just Protein and Sleep - money *not* well spent. If someone else is cool with banging their wife 6 times a week rather than 4 (only) - hey cool. But quit with the implications about mass and strength.

Might want to read the study posted above. Don't believe it? Don't buy it. You don't like others that might think there is actually something to it? Get over it.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Was that the non-peer reviewed study out of the source country for TA, that was only presented at a conference 13 years ago? But yeah, looking at that one study would get me excited too, it does look good.

Yes, I laugh at Creatine Ads with Steroid users on them - it would only be fair. The difference is that the implied claims for Creatine and Testosterone Boosters, are a lot different.

You seem to be imparting a lot of stuff to me, that I don't remember saying. Calling people sheep? I made fun of Cellucor's use of Sheep Placenta? Do I think people fall for marketing and cherry picked studies? Yes. Do I think they are sheep? No. I bought Bio-Grow, remember? No one is immune from the Juggernaut.

And I'm just trying to present the minority opinion on here about these things. I'm not on some crusade. Do you think I like ingesting chemicals/hormones at may age? LOL. I would LOVE for this stuff to actually add weight to the bar.

 

[Admin]

Was that the non-peer reviewed study out of the source country for TA, that was only presented at a conference 13 years ago? But yeah, looking at that one study would get me excited too, it does look good.

Their research department has published over 500 studies. Is that not good enough for you or is it a grand conspiracy to prop up LJ100? :lol:

Yes, I laugh at Creatine Ads with Steroid users on them - it would only be fair. The difference is that the implied claims for Creatine and Testosterone Boosters, are a lot different.

So your ok with guys on roids (assumption on your part) promoting gains from creatine but not form test boosters. Ah ok..got it now.

You seem to be imparting a lot of stuff to me, that I don't remember saying. Calling people sheep? I made fun of Cellucor's use of Sheep Placenta? Do I think people fall for marketing and cherry picked studies? Yes. Do I think they are sheep? No. I bought Bio-Grow, remember? No one is immune from the Juggernaut.

My mistake then. It sounded to me as if you were calling people that think test boosters effective as "sheep". It seemed like you were trying to be clever with that analogy. Also the comment about coming into thread to bust people's balls over this subject dind't make you sound...open minded. But thats MY assumption. Could be wrong.

And I'm just trying to present the minority opinion on here about these things. I'm not on some crusade. Do you think I like ingesting chemicals/hormones at may age? LOL. I would LOVE for this stuff to actually add weight to the bar.

Actually I don't think there is a minority and majority....and if there was, you're probably in the majority.

 

[ucheoma]

I would qiestion that lj 100 study based on the conclusions. What is the mechanism by which ergogenic gains were made? I didn't see anything about increase in t levels and I would wager my house that lj100 does not increase test to the level of being anabolic. And if it did raise test why wasn't this presented in the study. Other studies available via examine. Com conclude lj does not raise test and I would be extremely sceptical of this one study.

 

[Admin]

I would qiestion that lj 100 study based on the conclusions. What is the mechanism by which ergogenic gains were made? I didn't see anything about increase in t levels and I would wager my house that lj100 does not increase test to the level of being anabolic. And if it did raise test why wasn't this presented in the study. Other studies available via examine. Com conclude lj does not raise test and I would be extremely sceptical of this one study.

Of course you would question it. It doesn't go along with what you believe.

I would wager my house that lj100 does not increase test to the level of being anabolic.

And what level is that? Can you tell us? In normal men? In men age 30-40?


Effect of Tongkat Ali on stress hormones and psychological mood state in moderately stressed subjects
Shawn M Talbott,corresponding author1 Julie A Talbott,1 Annie George,2 and Mike Pugh3
Author information ► Article notes ► Copyright and License information ►
This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
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Abstract
Background

Eurycoma longifolia is a medicinal plant commonly called tongkat ali (TA) and “Malaysian ginseng.” TA roots are a traditional “anti-aging” remedy and modern supplements are intended to improve libido, energy, sports performance and weight loss. Previous studies have shown properly-standardized TA to stimulate release of free testosterone, improve sex drive, reduce fatigue, and improve well-being.

Methods

We assessed stress hormones and mood state in 63 subjects (32 men and 31 women) screened for moderate stress and supplemented with a standardized hot-water extract of TA root (TA) or Placebo (PL) for 4 weeks. Analysis of variance (ANOVA) with significance set at p < 0.05 was used to determine differences between groups.

Results

Significant improvements were found in the TA group for Tension (−11%), Anger (−12%), and Confusion (−15%). Stress hormone profile (salivary cortisol and testosterone) was significantly improved by TA supplementation, with reduced cortisol exposure (−16%) and increased testosterone status (+37%).

Conclusion

These results indicate that daily supplementation with tongkat ali root extract improves stress hormone profile and certain mood state parameters, suggesting that this “ancient” remedy may be an effective approach to shielding the body from the detrimental effects of “modern” chronic stress, which may include general day-to-day stress, as well as the stress of dieting, sleep deprivation, and exercise training.

Keywords: Testosterone, Cortisol, Stress, Vigor, Tongkat ali, Eurycoma, Mood

 

[chipmunk]

so the general consensus is.....nothing?

 

[thebigt]

I offered to give the latest and greatest a TRUE test in Feb... no takers. Wonder why? (InB4 the "You'll say it doesn't work no matter what).

BigT - What kind of poundage increases on your 1-Rep Max Bench/Dead/Squat have you seen taking your favorite booster only?

i have been lifting since high school[72-76]....i haven't gone for a pr in many years, that is not my purpose in lifting. 10 years ago i when i joined this forum i weighed 260 at between 12-15% bf and i maxed out every workout....i used to use ph's frequently.

the many years of lifting heavy took it's toll on my joints, and i developed arthritis. so i decided i could no longer maintain that weight and dropped down to 205, which i have maintained for the last 10 years.

those ph cycles-and trust me there were many caused my natural production of testosterone to tank, and 7 years ago i was put on trt....recently i was diagnosed with polycythemia and taken off trt...one of the supplement company owners who visit this forum heard how i was struggling since being taken off trt and set me up with a all natural pct. i am on the second month of this pct and get blood test done oct 5. the difference between how i feel now and before i started this natural pct is night and day. frankly scarlet i really don't give a damn what you think of natural test boosters, but for me they make a huge difference.

i would invite you to follow along my journey back from trt, but i seriously don't need the stress of your negativity.

 

[Rocket3015]

Haters...Please Hate Some Where Else !!!

 

[Bry17]

I haven't looked at the research and not sure how well I trust the company but A-HD works pretty well.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

We're on the He said-He said merry go'round again. All I want, is someone that has a tad bit 'standing' to put a strength increase range behind the claims for a particular product. I know, what an outrageous request. I mean, you can ask Wendler or Rippetoe what a guy who's been lifting for 2 years can expect to add to his lifts, just by eating, sleeping and training right in their programs - and they will give you a range. On the other end, you can go into the Anabolic section here, or the hundreds of other boards and ask for the ranges of strength increase seen with AAS/PH/SARMs and get an answer (and in my personal experience, those ranges are in the ball park). Yet, when asked the same of "T-Boosters", you don't get a direct answer. Why?

Using Ultimate-T, USPlabsRep has said they've done internal testing. Great, probably more than others do, so awesome (and I'm serious). Ok, how many testers, I assume label dosage, how long (I assume 8 weeks), and average all the strength increases per lift and post them. Seems simple, no?

Despite previous claims, it really doesn't matter if I believe them or not. I think the 10's of thousands of other members who may be contemplating a product, would like to know as well. Yes, we know "results may vary", etc...

Rocket, no one's hating. But I didn't see anything in the TOS about bowing down and worshiping every compound introduced on AM. Someone made a comment once about AM being about "Growing the Mind". That includes presenting an opposite (unpopular) view point. I'm not just posting "product is garbage!" and leaving. I'm asking for certain claims to be backed up. And not by some one off decade and a half old study on an extraction (even if it does do what the study says) that we can't even know is the same thing included in a "T-Booster" - due to the oh so consumer friendly "Prop Blend". Also, 98% of the few supplements I take, have come from information/sponsors of this board - I am a revenue source. So believe me, there is no hate - but I'll talk about things I see that I don't like - it *is* a discussion board after all.

And questioning my motives/agenda is fine. Just make sure you also question those of anyone that derives income off of "T-Boosters" - that includes ad revenue streams coming into web sites, from them. That's the great thing about boards, each reader can decide who they believe or not, by what is presented.

Admin, I'd go point by point, but do either of us really want to have to read each other anymore? But the Creatine thing - 711+ studies will tell you what it does. The ads are bold faced lie that any 8th grader can figure out. Not really any reason to go all 'consumer advocate' about a product you can get for about $0.01 per day, that 711 papers will tell you the outcome. T-Boosters are another story, there is scant data as far as strength/lbm increases go, no one will stand behind vague claims of "you'll gain strength", and they can cost up to $170 per month *cough* Cellucor *cough*.

 

[Admin]

No, I won't go point to point because after you pulled the "that includes revenue streams coming into web site" I just have to laugh. It's the the easiest, most intellectually lazy argument to make and is usual the one someone brings up when they lack substance.

As if my opinion on the matter has anything to do with revenue...it's just funny everytime someone brings it up. I post two studies that go to prove my point and the response? Oh, your opinion has more to do with revenue stream than actual research. Right, got it.


I also like the implication that if you actually give some of these ingredients some credit, you're bowing down to some company.

 

[malin]

i have been lifting since high school[72-76]....i haven't gone for a pr in many years, that is not my purpose in lifting. 10 years ago i when i joined this forum i weighed 260 at between 12-15% bf and i maxed out every workout....i used to use ph's frequently.

the many years of lifting heavy took it's toll on my joints, and i developed arthritis. so i decided i could no longer maintain that weight and dropped down to 205, which i have maintained for the last 10 years.

those ph cycles-and trust me there were many caused my natural production of testosterone to tank, and 7 years ago i was put on trt....recently i was diagnosed with polycythemia an taken of trt...one of the supplement company owners who visit this forum heard how i was struggling since being taken off trt and set me up with a all natural pct. i am on the second month of this pct and get blood test done oct 5. the difference between how i feel now and before i started this natural pct is night and day. frankly scarlet i really don't give a damn what you think of natural test boosters, but for me they make a huge difference.

i would invite you to follow along my journey back from trt, but i seriously don't need the stress of your negativity.[/QUOTE

Hey man , are you logging it ? I would like to take a look .

 

[ucheoma]

It seems whilst you were on TRT you were also reviewing a number of 'test booster' products. I'm not aware you ever covered any of these products negatively which is fine if these were doing what you expected

However as a 'neutral' it does raise questions for me as to how you could have attributed the gains you were seeing to these test boosters given you were on full fledged TRT. It comes across as conflicted to me. Just saying and hope you can see it from an outsider's perspective not as an attack.

 

[ucheoma]

Admin, the physiological levels for t -levels are widely available including those adjusted for age etc

It's interesting you have cited these two studies to prove the efficacy of LJ given you're previous derision relating to PubMed searches. 'Inconsistent' is the word that comes to mind.

Turning to the latest study you cite have you read the full article? I'm not sure you picked the right study to prove your case. Below are some extracts: and by the way hardly the most independent study given the relationship of a number to the TA industry! I think it may be prudent to caveat and qualify the claims you make of LJ in future

"The effects of tongkat ali in restoring normal testosterone levels appears to be less due to actually “stimulating” testosterone synthesis, but rather by increasing the release rate of “free” testosterone from its binding hormone, sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG) [17,18]. In this way, eurycoma may be considered not so much a testosterone “booster” (such as an anabolic steroid), but rather a “maintainer” of normal testosterone levels and a “restorer” of normal testosterone levels (from “low” back “up” to normal ranges) [19]. This would make eurycoma particularly beneficial for individuals with sub-normal testosterone levels, including those who are dieting for weight loss, middle-aged individuals suffering with fatigue or depression, and intensely training athletes who may be at risk for overtraining [20,21].

The authors have no directly competing interests, although one (AG) is an employee of a company that manufactures tongkat ali extract, and another (MP) is an employee of a nutrition company that uses tongkat ali as one ingredient in an anti-stress dietary supplement. The other authors (ST and JT) conducted this study as employees of SupplementWatch, which received funding for this trial from Biotropics Malaysia.

 

[baxtecal]

i have been lifting since high school[72-76]....i haven't gone for a pr in many years, that is not my purpose in lifting. 10 years ago i when i joined this forum i weighed 260 at between 12-15% bf and i maxed out every workout....i used to use ph's frequently.

the many years of lifting heavy took it's toll on my joints, and i developed arthritis. so i decided i could no longer maintain that weight and dropped down to 205, which i have maintained for the last 10 years.

those ph cycles-and trust me there were many caused my natural production of testosterone to tank, and 7 years ago i was put on trt....recently i was diagnosed with polycythemia an taken of trt...one of the supplement company owners who visit this forum heard how i was struggling since being taken off trt and set me up with a all natural pct. i am on the second month of this pct and get blood test done oct 5. the difference between how i feel now and before i started this natural pct is night and day. frankly scarlet i really don't give a damn what you think of natural test boosters, but for me they make a huge difference.

i would invite you to follow along my journey back from trt, but i seriously don't need the stress of your negativity.[/QUOTE

Hey man , are you logging it ? I would like to take a look .

Very interested. Do you have a log going?

 

[mase1]

I believe I asked before but did not get a response, any opinions on lj100 vs ultimate T? Anyone take both and compare? Thanks.

 

[Jebrook]

I believe I asked before but did not get a response, any opinions on lj100 vs ultimate T? Anyone take both and compare? Thanks.

I've have used LJ100 and Viron which are both solid. Haven't used Ultimate-T but seen a lot of positive stuff lately. Volvo140G has used it and maybe the others as well.

 

[Admin]

Admin, the physiological levels for t -levels are widely available including those adjusted for age etc

It's interesting you have cited these two studies to prove the efficacy of LJ given you're previous derision relating to PubMed searches. 'Inconsistent' is the word that comes to mind.

Where have I ever expression derision to anything pubmed? You seem to think they are the final say.

The studies I cited I actually got from a debate from 2008, in which No_Hype, probably the most anti-supplement guy out there, cited these as his support for LJ100. You can certainly debate him on the merits of those studies.

Eurycoma Longifolia was used in T-Bol years ago. People loved that product. You can now tell Ron Kramer that his research is baseless. ax1

So your funny little jab about inconsistencies applies more to you than anyone. If people give anectdoal refreences, you doubt them. You say "show me the research". When that is done, you have a problem with the research. Anything other than someone conducting the study in your own living room isn't good enough for you. You don't want ot believe they work, and you will go on not believing they work. Thats fine. Move on then.

Turning to the latest study you cite have you read the full article? I'm not sure you picked the right study to prove your case. Below are some extracts: and by the way hardly the most independent study given the relationship of a number to the TA industry! I think it may be prudent to caveat and qualify the claims you make of LJ in future

I havne't made any claims. I presented evidence. The same evidence that has been used for the past 7 years.

"The effects of tongkat ali in restoring normal testosterone levels appears to be less due to actually “stimulating” testosterone synthesis, but rather by increasing the release rate of “free” testosterone from its binding hormone, sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG) [17,18]. In this way, eurycoma may be considered not so much a testosterone “booster” (such as an anabolic steroid), but rather a “maintainer” of normal testosterone levels and a “restorer” of normal testosterone levels (from “low” back “up” to normal ranges) [19]. This would make eurycoma particularly beneficial for individuals with sub-normal testosterone levels, including those who are dieting for weight loss, middle-aged individuals suffering with fatigue or depression, and intensely training athletes who may be at risk for overtraining [20,21].

After 35, your testosterone levels are suboptimal. I am 42 therefore it applies to me. The people in this thread that has reported its benefite are mainly over 40. As I said in the beginning, the anectodal results confirm what some studies say in that the ingredient itself has merit.

Its pretty simple. If you don't believe it, don't buy it.

 

[USPlabsRep]

Admin, the physiological levels for t -levels are widely available including those adjusted for age etc

It's interesting you have cited these two studies to prove the efficacy of LJ given you're previous derision relating to PubMed searches. 'Inconsistent' is the word that comes to mind.

Turning to the latest study you cite have you read the full article? I'm not sure you picked the right study to prove your case. Below are some extracts: and by the way hardly the most independent study given the relationship of a number to the TA industry! I think it may be prudent to caveat and qualify the claims you make of LJ in future

"The effects of tongkat ali in restoring normal testosterone levels appears to be less due to actually “stimulating” testosterone synthesis, but rather by increasing the release rate of “free” testosterone from its binding hormone, sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG) [17,18]. In this way, eurycoma may be considered not so much a testosterone “booster” (such as an anabolic steroid), but rather a “maintainer” of normal testosterone levels and a “restorer” of normal testosterone levels (from “low” back “up” to normal ranges) [19]. This would make eurycoma particularly beneficial for individuals with sub-normal testosterone levels, including those who are dieting for weight loss, middle-aged individuals suffering with fatigue or depression, and intensely training athletes who may be at risk for overtraining [20,21].

The authors have no directly competing interests, although one (AG) is an employee of a company that manufactures tongkat ali extract, and another (MP) is an employee of a nutrition company that uses tongkat ali as one ingredient in an anti-stress dietary supplement. The other authors (ST and JT) conducted this study as employees of SupplementWatch, which received funding for this trial from Biotropics Malaysia.

You guys have to stop with it was "paid for by the company" as a credible attack.

Its stupid reasoning and faulty logic.

please tell explain why that is relevant? After you explain your reason, prove it with evidence.

 

[ma70]

The studies I cited I actually got from a debate from 2008, in which No_Hype, probably the most anti-supplement guy out there, cited these as his support for LJ100. You can certainly debate him on the merits of those studies.

This alone makes me believe in LJ100, haha. No_Hype doesn't mess around.

 

[thebigt]

It seems whilst you were on TRT you were also reviewing a number of 'test booster' products. I'm not aware you ever covered any of these products negatively which is fine if these were doing what you expected

However as a 'neutral' it does raise questions for me as to how you could have attributed the gains you were seeing to these test boosters given you were on full fledged TRT. It comes across as conflicted to me. Just saying and hope you can see it from an outsider's perspective not as an attack.

very nice of you to notice what i have been reviewing....i have over 50 reviews listed and feel free to look at all of the reviews. i would be willing to bet that at least 90% of products i review i give good reviews to. this is not by coincidence. i very rarely apply for a promo to log a product, and when i do it is something i really think will work---i don't have time to waste applying for every promo like some do, if i agree to spend my time and effort logging a product you can bet i have done my homework!!!!!!!

lol...if i don't think a product has a reasonably good chance of doing what i expect it to do, i sure as hell am not going to waste my time logging it!!!!! if i am chosen to 'LOG' a product, i don't consider it a free product....my time is valuable to me and isn't free to waste!!!

i personally don't give a damn if it seems conflicted to you, if test boosters didn't work for me i sure as hell would not be continuing to waste my time with them!!!!

HAVE A NICE DAY

 

[aaronuconn]

I believe I asked before but did not get a response, any opinions on lj100 vs ultimate T? Anyone take both and compare? Thanks.

Not a fair comparison (in my opinion) as Ultimate T is more comprehensive.

I haven't used either, but comparing a single ingredient to a formula (that contains Eurycoma Longifolia as well) may not be the best comparison.

 

[jgntyce]

USPLabs Ultimate-T
BLR Viron

I currently use Viron but Ultimate T is peaking my interest. Can it be taken year round?

 

[ma70]

I currently use Viron but Ultimate T is peaking my interest. Can it be taken year round?

Ultimate-T utilizes one of Viron's ingredients, as well as just being a test booster which in general should be cycled. Ashwagandha is an adaptogen that seems like it should be cycled as well, although I know kisaj uses it year round.

 

[infamou]

Would a person need some kind of PCT from using Test Boosters?

Because wouldn't your estrogen rebound after stopping?

Not natty:
25mg Clomid
T Gel

Some natural boosters:
Fadogia Agrestis
Eurycomia Longifolia (tongkat ali)
D-Aspartic Acid
Fenugreek
Tribulus Terrestris
Bryonia Lacionosa Extract
Zinc
Mag
Biocurcumax
Cissus Quadrangularis
Ashwagandha

 

[USPlabsRep]

I currently use Viron but Ultimate T is peaking my interest. Can it be taken year round?

PM your address and shirt size..

 

[mase1]

With long jack included is ultimate T 5 on 2 off? Or it stays effective do to other additions?

 

[T-Bone]

i have been lifting since high school[72-76]....i haven't gone for a pr in many years, that is not my purpose in lifting. 10 years ago i when i joined this forum i weighed 260 at between 12-15% bf and i maxed out every workout....i used to use ph's frequently.

the many years of lifting heavy took it's toll on my joints, and i developed arthritis. so i decided i could no longer maintain that weight and dropped down to 205, which i have maintained for the last 10 years.

those ph cycles-and trust me there were many caused my natural production of testosterone to tank, and 7 years ago i was put on trt....recently i was diagnosed with polycythemia and taken off trt...one of the supplement company owners who visit this forum heard how i was struggling since being taken off trt and set me up with a all natural pct. i am on the second month of this pct and get blood test done oct 5. the difference between how i feel now and before i started this natural pct is night and day. frankly scarlet i really don't give a damn what you think of natural test boosters, but for me they make a huge difference.

i would invite you to follow along my journey back from trt, but i seriously don't need the stress of your negativity.

A big problem on this board is a lot of members just assume everyone has the same goals. You keep doin what your doin BigT, forget the naysayers!

 

[thebigt]

A big problem on this board is a lot of members just assume everyone has the same goals. You keep doin what your doin BigT, forget the naysayers!

you bet..thanks T-BONE!!!

 

[mountain1]

I've been liking HPTA by Iron Champ USA. I'm 47 y/o so that might have something to do with it too, but I'm seeing some good results.

 

[ManuR]

Would love to test Ultimate T since the profile looks quite good.
But seems there is no distributor in europe?

 

[USPlabsRep]

Would love to test Ultimate T since the profile looks quite good.
But seems there is no distributor in europe?

Invalid Link Removed

 

[ManuR]

Hi USPlabsREP,

i have to be a business man to buy from prometeus.
I dont have a business . I usually buy from predatornutrition or powermyself..
Regards,
Manuel

 

[malin]

Used both , both solid products , personally I like Ut more . But you can't go wrong with either