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The criminalization of law abiding citizens - PH ban

heavyiron said:
It depends on the compound in my experience. Some improve mood and others seem to magnify aggression. Under a docs supervision I think they would likely do well generally speaking but I do hear you. Methylstenbolone or Trenbolone make me pretty aggressive. 4-andro on the other hand makes my mood, energy and libido improve significantly.
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Well if people keep acting like *******s around cops, I'd say it would be wise for them to be more aggressive. But i don't mean to digress this whole conversation into something else.
 
heavyiron said:
It depends on the compound in my experience. Some improve mood and others seem to magnify aggression. Under a docs supervision I think they would likely do well generally speaking but I do hear you. Methylstenbolone or Trenbolone make me pretty aggressive. 4-andro on the other hand makes my mood, energy and libido improve significantly.
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I like that idea right there. Maybe it'd give some out of shape cops the motivation to get in shape. Hell, put the majority of obese men in America on a test base and we'll be golden lol!
 
Kickstart7 said:
I like that idea right there. Maybe it'd give some out of shape cops the motivation to get in shape. Hell, put the majority of obese men in America on a test base and we'll be golden lol!
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Actually they would probably benefit more from Adderall then test.
 
Rocket3015 said:
70% of the US population is obese, but lets punish the few % that workout, try to eat right and take care of themselves ???? Makes sense to who ?
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While I agree that PHs probably aren't a major nationwide "problem," I never understood this argument. Prohormones are without question bad for your health, negatively impacting lipids and blood pressure (all of them, by virtue of being androgens) while also possibly being hepatotoxic, nephrotoxic, suppressive, and even neurotoxic depending on the compound.

So while I again agree that PHs probably aren't the biggest issue in the US right now, there is really no place for the whole "but we're trying to be healthy" argument, because PHs are not healthy, and that's not really up for debate. If we assessed morbidity and mortality for two groups that exercised and ate healthy, but one was on PHs and one wasn't, the group without PHs would have better longterm health, 10 times out of 10.

I think a more sane argument is simply: should you have the right to control what you consume and make an educated decision yourself? That's really what surrounds any drug bans as the main logic, not "well I was using this drug as part of trying to be healthy."

Also, 35% of the adult population is obese, not 70%.
 
I completely agree with you, mr.cooper69. PH and DS affect the body only in a negative way - except of course muscle mass but thats not the point.
Does anyone have ever seen a healthy PH, which imporve HDL/LDL ratio for example? Me neither.

On the one hand, I can understand the ban of the PH. AAS are in first line made to help sick people, which need AAS due to their illness (muscle wasting through cancer etc.). With the modern medicine we can give them a more confortable life, for a longer period of time. In the last years, they researched for medical drugs, which have the same benefit with less side effect - the era of PH and DS started. Business-minded persons realized fast, that this industry is a huge money machine.
But honestly, the only substances with the best ratio are baisc endogenous hormones. All other synthetical stuff is worser than anything (e.g. 17a-methylated stuff).
This reflects also in the cycle duration: a PH cycle for four weeks brings more fat and water than anything else. The muscle building process is a slow process, which take more than some weeks. And in comparison of a six week cycle Halodrol to a 24-week cycle of Testosterone, the second one will have definitely less side effects. And the PCT is the same.

But on the other hand, I can't understand the ban. I mean, it's our choice what we are taking. It will getting worser - trust me. If you red George Orwells 1984 you probably now what I mean...
Who has the right to define, how I should life? The government? No one. The problem is also the society. Bodybuilding and especially muscle building preparates are mostly not accepted in the society.

As Julius Caesar said: "Give them bread and circuses. They don't need more". Bread = cheap food (mcdonals and the whole other stuff). As long as the population have something to eat, they won't put the system in question.
Games = entertainment. Maybe you know it: your child is crying all the time, so you turn on the TV to divert...

Long story short: it's very difficult to discuss about that, because we are with the using of this stuff a fringe group. A "normal" person would probably not understand our point of views because they are not interested in it (and they don't know the facts about muscle building).
On the one hand this step was good to prevent naive kids or people to take this stuff (it's easier to swallow a pill then to pin a needle) but otherwise it's a huge intervention in our private freedom. And if somebody wants to take PH, they will.
 
sanmarino said:
I completely agree with you, mr.cooper69. PH and DS affect the body only in a negative way - except of course muscle mass but thats not the point.
Does anyone have ever seen a healthy PH, which imporve HDL/LDL ratio for example? Me neither.

On the one hand, I can understand the ban of the PH. AAS are in first line made to help sick people, which need AAS due to their illness (muscle wasting through cancer etc.). With the modern medicine we can give them a more confortable life, for a longer period of time. In the last years, they researched for medical drugs, which have the same benefit with less side effect - the era of PH and DS started. Business-minded persons realized fast, that this industry is a huge money machine.
But honestly, the only substances with the best ratio are baisc endogenous hormones. All other synthetical stuff is worser than anything (e.g. 17a-methylated stuff).
This reflects also in the cycle duration: a PH cycle for four weeks brings more fat and water than anything else. The muscle building process is a slow process, which take more than some weeks. And in comparison of a six week cycle Halodrol to a 24-week cycle of Testosterone, the second one will have definitely less side effects. And the PCT is the same.

But on the other hand, I can't understand the ban. I mean, it's our choice what we are taking. It will getting worser - trust me. If you red George Orwells 1984 you probably now what I mean...
Who has the right to define, how I should life? The government? No one. The problem is also the society. Bodybuilding and especially muscle building preparates are mostly not accepted in the society.

As Julius Caesar said: "Give them bread and circuses. They don't need more". Bread = cheap food (mcdonals and the whole other stuff). As long as the population have something to eat, they won't put the system in question.
Games = entertainment. Maybe you know it: your child is crying all the time, so you turn on the TV to divert...

Long story short: it's very difficult to discuss about that, because we are with the using of this stuff a fringe group. A "normal" person would probably not understand our point of views because they are not interested in it (and they don't know the facts about muscle building).
On the one hand this step was good to prevent naive kids or people to take this stuff (it's easier to swallow a pill then to pin a needle) but otherwise it's a huge intervention in our private freedom. And if somebody wants to take PH, they will.
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Great Post
 
jmyers said:
Sir I do not need an education lesson on prohormones and steroids. The Prohormones that i was taking were not illegal, but now they are. Since they are now illegaI I will not be taking them. Regardless, like I stated before, this thread is not about me.
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I understand your position, but coming from someone who has dealt with the issue for well over 15 years (the legal side), they were still steroids legal or not. And, they were only legal due to a technicality. In my position, if I told my superiors that I was taking steroids or selling banned or not, I would be let go immediately without question. Which, I never have mentioned it.

But, I am not here to attack you. I was just pointing out something which came across my mind when I realized you were in law enforcement.
 
Rocket3015 said:
70% of the US population is obese, but lets punish the few % that workout, try to eat right and take care of themselves ???? Makes sense to who ?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what to think of that quote...it's basically the lesser of two evils TBO.
 
sanmarino said:
I completely agree with you, mr.cooper69. PH and DS affect the body only in a negative way - except of course muscle mass but thats not the point.
Does anyone have ever seen a healthy PH, which imporve HDL/LDL ratio for example? Me neither.

On the one hand, I can understand the ban of the PH. AAS are in first line made to help sick people, which need AAS due to their illness (muscle wasting through cancer etc.). With the modern medicine we can give them a more confortable life, for a longer period of time. In the last years, they researched for medical drugs, which have the same benefit with less side effect - the era of PH and DS started. Business-minded persons realized fast, that this industry is a huge money machine.
But honestly, the only substances with the best ratio are baisc endogenous hormones. All other synthetical stuff is worser than anything (e.g. 17a-methylated stuff).
This reflects also in the cycle duration: a PH cycle for four weeks brings more fat and water than anything else. The muscle building process is a slow process, which take more than some weeks. And in comparison of a six week cycle Halodrol to a 24-week cycle of Testosterone, the second one will have definitely less side effects. And the PCT is the same.

But on the other hand, I can't understand the ban. I mean, it's our choice what we are taking. It will getting worser - trust me. If you red George Orwells 1984 you probably now what I mean...
Who has the right to define, how I should life? The government? No one. The problem is also the society. Bodybuilding and especially muscle building preparates are mostly not accepted in the society.

As Julius Caesar said: "Give them bread and circuses. They don't need more". Bread = cheap food (mcdonals and the whole other stuff). As long as the population have something to eat, they won't put the system in question.
Games = entertainment. Maybe you know it: your child is crying all the time, so you turn on the TV to divert...

Long story short: it's very difficult to discuss about that, because we are with the using of this stuff a fringe group. A "normal" person would probably not understand our point of views because they are not interested in it (and they don't know the facts about muscle building).
On the one hand this step was good to prevent naive kids or people to take this stuff (it's easier to swallow a pill then to pin a needle) but otherwise it's a huge intervention in our private freedom. And if somebody wants to take PH, they will.
Click to expand...

How many hands do you have bro?

Just fking with you brother, take it "lite".
 
00S4Boy said:
It comes down to sports, and teenagers.
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This is the argument that seriously pisses me off. It's perfectly possible to ban something in sports and to ban the sale of something to underaged users without banning it for everyone in every context. Hell, personally I don't actually play any sports and my working out and supplementation is purely aimed at confidence building and general self improvement.

The fallacy that goes with the sport and teenagers argument is a bit like the argument being proposed in Ireland for minimum alcohol prices - sometimes people rape when they're drunk, sometimes kids get drink even though they shouldn't, ergo we should make it harder to every single person to afford a few beers regardless of how they intend to use them.
It's absolute BS. The nanny state at its worst. If there are specific problems with regard to teenagers and people using performance enhancing supps in sport, I can completely understand that - but there are any number of ways this could be dealt with without impacting anyone who doesn't fall into either of those categories.

The government is, as usual, taking the easy way out. Proper regulation is complicated and expensive. A blanket ban is far easier to explain on paper and is therefore the most common response to anything which can sometimes cause problems.
 
the Phoenix said:
They want us to be all weak, vegan, vegetarians that are so far concerned about the planet so that we can't resist the government when martial law gets instituted to fight what they call "home grown terrorists" if you're believe in the constitution. They want us to be weak, emasculated men, who become complacent with Executive Order laws that have not be circumvented by Legislature. They want us to continue drinking fluoridated water (complacency & docility), cancer causing sugar-free aspartame, non-nutritious GMOs in our food. Call me conspiracy theorists, but I work for the government and it is now out in the open. Not a theory, but a conspiracy nonetheless.
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To be honest and I know this may get shot down as tinfoil hat BS, I sometimes wonder if a lot of this is to do with the all out assault on masculinity by the establishment in recent years. Even the word "testosterone" in the mainstream media is almost always used in a negative manner. The idea of guys wanting to be big and strong is something this particular lobby despises with a fiery passion. I'm sure you've all seen the kind of crap that gets posted online, from comparing buffed up lads to cavemen with no intelligence, to suggesting that guys who work out are "obsessive" and "boring" etc, I genuinely get the impression that the entire bodybuilder lifestyle is under attack as part of the wider assault on "lad culture", or essentially the current attack by the establishment against a certain form of masculinity which it sees as a problem to be solved.

Again tinfoil hat accusations aside, does anyone really believe that it's a coincidence that the vast majority of ADHD diagnoses in pre-pubescent children are boys generally just being boys and being full of energy, and that they're being medicated to become mindless zombies to some extent?

It's my honest opinion that overt masculinity is now seen as a problem, a defect, something to be avoided and prevented as much as possible. In that context, anything which increases or aids testosterone is something that should be eliminated.

Hell, I have persistent pubertal gyno which was the reason I originally got into bodybuilding and part of the reason I'm so fascinated by hormones and how they work - and when I first started researching things like aromatase inhibitors to solve the problem, literally the first reaction, the most immediate concern of my family was "but won't that mean your testosterone will increase and you'll turn into an aggressive *******?"

I genuinely fear for future generations of guys if this trend carries on. And I'm sure some will say my theory is BS, and I really, truly hope it is...
 
mr.cooper69 said:
While I agree that PHs probably aren't a major nationwide "problem," I never understood this argument. Prohormones are without question bad for your health, negatively impacting lipids and blood pressure (all of them, by virtue of being androgens) while also possibly being hepatotoxic, nephrotoxic, suppressive, and even neurotoxic depending on the compound.

So while I again agree that PHs probably aren't the biggest issue in the US right now, there is really no place for the whole "but we're trying to be healthy" argument, because PHs are not healthy, and that's not really up for debate. If we assessed morbidity and mortality for two groups that exercised and ate healthy, but one was on PHs and one wasn't, the group without PHs would have better longterm health, 10 times out of 10.

I think a more sane argument is simply: should you have the right to control what you consume and make an educated decision yourself? That's really what surrounds any drug bans as the main logic, not "well I was using this drug as part of trying to be healthy."

Also, 35% of the adult population is obese, not 70%.
Click to expand...

Which are neurotoxic? Just curious.
 
jmyers said:
Sir I do not need an education lesson on prohormones and steroids. The Prohormones that i was taking were not illegal, but now they are. Since they are now illegaI I will not be taking them. Regardless, like I stated before, this thread is not about me.
Click to expand...

Amen brother in blue..I'm also a cop..it's very tough these days...well said...I was the same way now it's illegal I don't take em...be safe bro
 
conkertheking said:
The government is, as usual, taking the easy way out. Proper regulation is complicated and expensive. A blanket ban is far easier to explain on paper and is therefore the most common response to anything which can sometimes cause problems.
Click to expand...

You answered your own question.

I don't follow politics, so i'm not the foremost expert. But it seems like there may be far more pressing things that the government has to attend to, **** that might effect your life and you don't even think about it.

So lets spend a ton of money and time setting up regulations for steroids, while ebola kills half the country, or looters cause millions of dollars of damage to small business owners, or better yet north korea decides to nuke the west coast.
 
blaykeryan said:
Amen brother in blue..I'm also a cop..it's very tough these days...well said...I was the same way now it's illegal I don't take em...be safe bro
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thanks bro, and you stay safe as well.if you ever need anything, do not hesitate to send me a PM
 
heavyiron said:
I wish ALL cops and firefighters were allowed to juice under a docs supervision. What firefighter is going to drag my 250 lb ass out of a burning building? We need these guys in top physical condition. Most cops at my gym take PH's. Now they have almost no legal way out. Its total BS.
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I'll drag you out of a fire, that's a guarantee. Don't even think twice ;)
 
This thread makes my ****s interesting.

From yours truly on my golden thrown,

Kickstart7
 
Morefyah said:
I'm so sad Nitro 41 sent me a privite and neg me, what am I going to now? Lol!!
I've got no love for cops!
Wow, let it be none.
What's the big ****ing deal?
Anabolics are illegal, and if a cops using them he's dirty and breaking the law, in which he so "Honerably" vows to protect us from!
Bottom line cops are corrupt and that's my opinion, which by the way is my right on this forum!
I don't give a **** what you think.
Now take your mamas nipple out your mouth, say your prayers and go to ****ing bed!
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Someone Band This Jerk..... Just like there may be a few "Bad Cop" it's butt heads like this that give all people who lift weights in order to better themselves a bad name !!
 
There were some good thought provoking posts about the feminization of america, and how when the government cant figure out how to limit somthing, they just blanket ban it.

Its unfortunate, but its the cards we were dealt. Bet within a year we will have some killer anabolics within our affordable grasp
 
Nitro41 said:
There were some good thought provoking posts about the feminization of america, and how when the government cant figure out how to limit somthing, they just blanket ban it.

Its unfortunate, but its the cards we were dealt. Bet within a year we will have some killer anabolics within our affordable grasp
Click to expand...

Are you referring to natural anabolics Nitro? Looking forward to it
 
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