After preaching real food for years....

We can view diet patterns of all animals as falling somewhere along this continuum:

Herbivore<--------------------------------------------------------->Carnviore

With Herbivores (like a Ruminant) displaying features necessary to breakdown plant matter (a low acidic stomach, a Rumen - an area in the stomach designed for plant fermentation etc.) But despite being herbivorous, they get a large intake of SFA (otherwise we would not find so much in their milk or on their meat). Carnivores on the other hand do not have these specialized stomachs but instead have their own digestive systems required to breakdown the food they require plus the teeth designed to rip through flesh.

A human does not display features of either one or the other. We have very acidic stomachs required to breakdown meat and other products (plus canines for tearing) but also molars for eating fruit and other vegetables. We were not designed to live off plants as we cannot extract SCFA from plants, nor do we produce significant amounts of symbiotic bacteria required to breakdown cellulose.

If we were designed to ONLY eat plants or fruit, then we would have developed the digestive system required to extract fat from it, no? After-all, fats are a requirement for brain development. Yet we do not. It is not likely that high fat vegetables or fruits we available to all hunter gatherers (how of earth would an inuit grow plants in their environment?) so where did the fat come from if not from food like avocados and coconuts?

if meat-eating is universal around the world, then meat-eating is, in effect (or by default), a part of the environment. Once meat-eating becomes a part of the long-term environment, then evolutionary selective pressure will favor genes that are best adapted to that environment. In the long term, genetic adaptation to such a diet, by evolution, is the inevitable result.

Come at me vegetarians
 
I'm by far, NOT a vegan. I have my protein drinks daily and try to eat quality meat. I just mentioned the philosophy that was expressed to me by an old gymnast. Years ago everyone was not eating protein to get big. They'd just eat. As for us being omnivores, that's not entirely true. A humans teeth structure says it all. It isn't designed for shredding meat. It probably is more designed for fruits and vegetables. A lion on the other hand has the teeth structure for shredding meat and the digestive enzymes to dissolve bones. Don't forget, we eat to live. Animals live to eat. I did think we always ate the same bananas though

Humans also developed how to cook things so...
 
Humans also developed how to cook things so...

also knifes and forks make up for what our teeth may be lacking for shredding meat....plus a crock pot will tenderize even the toughest of meat, lol.
 
also knifes and forks make up for what our teeth may be lacking for shredding meat....plus a crock pot will tenderize even the toughest of meat, lol.

Evolution and technologies! It's what makes us human. Our ability to adapt sets us apart. Pretending that we are the same as any other wild animal is just plain ole nonsensical.
 
Evolution and technologies! It's what makes us human. Our ability to adapt sets us apart. Pretending that we are the same as any other wild animal is just plain ole nonsensical.

yup our ability to invent and utilize tools!!!
 
We can view diet patterns of all animals as falling somewhere along this continuum:

Herbivore<--------------------------------------------------------->Carnviore

With Herbivores (like a Ruminant) displaying features necessary to breakdown plant matter (a low acidic stomach, a Rumen - an area in the stomach designed for plant fermentation etc.) But despite being herbivorous, they get a large intake of SFA (otherwise we would not find so much in their milk or on their meat). Carnivores on the other hand do not have these specialized stomachs but instead have their own digestive systems required to breakdown the food they require plus the teeth designed to rip through flesh.

A human does not display features of either one or the other. We have very acidic stomachs required to breakdown meat and other products (plus canines for tearing) but also molars for eating fruit and other vegetables. We were not designed to live off plants as we cannot extract SCFA from plants, nor do we produce significant amounts of symbiotic bacteria required to breakdown cellulose.

If we were designed to ONLY eat plants or fruit, then we would have developed the digestive system required to extract fat from it, no? After-all, fats are a requirement for brain development. Yet we do not. It is not likely that high fat vegetables or fruits we available to all hunter gatherers (how of earth would an inuit grow plants in their environment?) so where did the fat come from if not from food like avocados and coconuts?

if meat-eating is universal around the world, then meat-eating is, in effect (or by default), a part of the environment. Once meat-eating becomes a part of the long-term environment, then evolutionary selective pressure will favor genes that are best adapted to that environment. In the long term, genetic adaptation to such a diet, by evolution, is the inevitable result.

Come at me vegetarians

If you believe in evolution, then you might believe we evolved from apes too.
 
If you believe in evolution, then you might believe we evolved from apes too.

We split off into humans and apes and what not. We did not evolve from them.

Also, you live in some sort of man made structure do you not? Likely with electricity, indoor plumbing, heating, etc.? You're using a computer to type your posts are you not? Likely have a mobile phone? What other animal in the animal kingdom has created such modern technologies? None, yet you wish to distinguish our diets so black and white whilst ignoring how we came about to manifest such technologies? Yeah, we don't have teeth like lions, but lions also do not build cities and cook their food. We do. Why do you think we ended up cooking our foods? Even hunter gatherers used man made tools, that allowed us to become the dominant species on this planet.
 
This debate is kind of absurd at this point. It's basically scientific fact we're omnivores...and this has to do with gut tolerance, b12 needs, palatability of both veggies and meats, etc...Basic, basic stuff guys. Exclusive herbivores/carnivores simply cannot tolerate the opposing food
 
If you believe in evolution, then you might believe we evolved from apes too.

Animals and humans have amazing adaptation abilities. If you look at a paleolithic man compared to now youd see how the span of a milennia can alter genetic code
 
This debate is kind of absurd at this point. It's basically scientific fact we're omnivores...and this has to do with gut tolerance, b12 needs, palatability of both veggies and meats, etc...Basic, basic stuff guys. Exclusive herbivores/carnivores simply cannot tolerate the opposing food

You'd think so, but a lot of people dont agree
 
You'd think so, but a lot of people dont agree

Whole lot of people used to believe the earth was flat as well and we all know how that played out. If you feel better eating no meat or following this diet or that then by all means people should as long as it does not negatively effect their health. Anyone who tells me they know the ONLY way we should eat looses my attention right quick.
 
Whole lot of people used to believe the earth was flat as well and we all know how that played out. If you feel better eating no meat or following this diet or that then by all means people should as long as it does not negatively effect their health. Anyone who tells me they know the ONLY way we should eat looses my attention right quick.

I literally couldnt care less what kind of diet most people choose to follow; but when people start pulling the unaware into their line of thinking where it may compromise health, then I speak up with science backed reasoning.

People forget that most improper nutrition now may not effect them immediatly - weightloss and gain are peoples "immediate" measures of a diets success or failure and long term health complications which may take decades to surface are forgotten over more immediate desires.

My responsibility in this Industry is to satisfy my clients more immediate desires whilst minimising long term detriments
 
Of course we've evolved. I'm not trying to label in black and white. I'm just telling you guys about people that I've talked to and their philosophies. I'm open minded. I'm not going to tell someone that they're wrong because todays day and age promotes protein more than ever. Read my #94 post. You guys are taking a lot of what I said out of context. I agree with a lot of things jiigz said. I don't have the knowledge he has on the scientific side. I appreciate him breaking it down for me. But that gymnast that I was talking about never worried about protein intake is what I'm saying. This guy did literally focus' on eating fruits and vegetables when he use to train(and you see what kind of strength and bodies gymnasts have).

Never once did I say I'm a vegetarian though haha. All I said was "we have to watch what meat we eat and to take in a good filtered protein". I will tell you this though, I do have a friend who is a vegan and he's lean, ripped and he benches 315 for reps. How do you explain that?
 
Whole lot of people used to believe the earth was flat as well and we all know how that played out. If you feel better eating no meat or following this diet or that then by all means people should as long as it does not negatively effect their health. Anyone who tells me they know the ONLY way we should eat looses my attention right quick.

+1

There is no right or wrong in this argument.
 
Of course we've evolved. I'm not trying to label in black and white. I'm just telling you guys about people that I've talked to and their philosophies. I'm open minded. I'm not going to tell someone that they're wrong because todays day and age promotes protein more than ever. Read my #94 post. You guys are taking a lot of what I said out of context. I agree with a lot of things jiigz said. I don't have the knowledge he has on the scientific side. I appreciate him breaking it down for me. But that gymnast that I was talking about never worried about protein intake is what I'm saying. This guy did literally focus' on eating fruits and vegetables when he use to train(and you see what kind of strength and bodies gymnasts have).

Never once did I say I'm a vegetarian though haha. All I said was "we have to watch what meat we eat and to take in a good filtered protein". I will tell you this though, I do have a friend who is a vegan and he's lean, ripped and he benches 315 for reps. How do you explain that?

What does being vegan have to do woth performance? Its about health and longevity
 
It's not a matter of philosophy though. You need b12 to synthesize DNA. Before the time of supplements, b12 was found only in meat, created from bacteria within the now dead organism. If you have no b12 in your body, you die before long. So if humans were supposed to "evolve into herbivores," why is it that we have this fatal flaw wherein we can't get b12? You'd think the body would be able to make its own b12 if we were to be exclusive herbivores.
 
It's not a matter of philosophy though. You need b12 to synthesize DNA. Before the time of supplements, b12 was found only in meat, created from bacteria within the now dead organism. If you have no b12 in your body, you die before long. So if humans were supposed to "evolve into herbivores," why is it that we have this fatal flaw wherein we can't get b12? You'd think the body would be able to make its own b12 if we were to be exclusive herbivores.
Interesting
 
It has to do more with being lean and ripped because a lot of people are under the impression that only protein can give you that type of physique.

Silly. High quality protein and a good amount of it (mainly from animal sources) helps build muscle better. Being lean and ripped mainly has to do with being able to cut down calories enough to get the ripped and lean end result then having the discipline to maintain it.

You can also be strong as fuak but also not have massive build. That is mainly going to come down to your training. Most of us here however are working towards size gains and not necessarily a small build but massive strength. Size is also relative to what a person starts off with usually.
 
Beneficial to eat every 2 hours for what?
Lesser Muscle Protein synthesis?
Unless you are on a good amoutn of supplements that increased your p ratio to the 9th degree and on jay cutlers stack than maybe. but for most of us meals spaced 4-6 hours have shown to be a bit better for overall muscle protein synthesis and allowing protein levels to reach their refractory stages before being spiked again

but i feel you, too many people focus on thinking they need to eat every X hour or Y amoutn of meals a day when in reality not so much their caloric intake is what matters most, meeting micronutrients, proper fat/protein/fiber minimums

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why would you want to bolus aminos when mps is in "refractory stages"? that doesn't even make sense. i appreciate your enthusiasm, but i'm not sure why you parrot layne's work as if it is gospel. his theory is definitely sound and something i buy into, but by no means is it scientific fact.
 
It's not a matter of philosophy though. You need b12 to synthesize DNA. Before the time of supplements, b12 was found only in meat, created from bacteria within the now dead organism. If you have no b12 in your body, you die before long. So if humans were supposed to "evolve into herbivores," why is it that we have this fatal flaw wherein we can't get b12? You'd think the body would be able to make its own b12 if we were to be exclusive herbivores.

cave drawings showing cave dwellers risking lives hunting saber toothed tigers with spears tells me there must be something to this need for meat thing. it seems to me that they could have gathered berries without nearly as much risk!!!
 
cave drawings showing cave dwellers risking lives hunting saber toothed tigers with spears tells me there must be something to this need for meat thing. it seems to me that they could have gathered berries without nearly as much risk!!!

Can't live off of berries alone bro... Or can we?
 
Maybe if they are gogi berries as they are a super food and of course mulberries as they were on the doctor oz show.

if it was on doctor oz it must be true....i wonder how many days he goes by eating only berries, not many i would wager.
 
Wouldn't care if I was told that only eating vegetables would make me live 5 years longer. I'd still find a way to consume meat and dairy.
 
why would you want to bolus aminos when mps is in "refractory stages"? that doesn't even make sense. i appreciate your enthusiasm, but i'm not sure why you parrot layne's work as if it is gospel. his theory is definitely sound and something i buy into, but by no means is it scientific fact.

And eating every 2 hours is a scientific fact?
Ok bro.
 
Wouldn't care if I was told that only eating vegetables would make me live 5 years longer. I'd still find a way to consume meat and dairy.

eating meat and dairy may not add years to your life, but it adds life to your years!!!
 
I love that! Good saying that could be applied to many things.

yup...i stole if from jim kick, a guy who wrote a book about running. ironically he died early, but happy i assume, lol.
 
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