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I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

Swolbraham said:
then just don't buy it lol

if two bottles this = 1 bottle micro PA i don't see the debate lol, and I have zero affiliation with either company
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because if its not a certain kind it doesnt work
 
Speaking of the devil article on front page about it.
Invalid Link Removed
 
fightnews said:
Speaking of the devil article on front page about it.
Invalid Link Removed
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There is no evidence that soy derived PA is any better or worse in vivo despite that conflicting in vitro evidence (and conveniently so considering the funding).

This is the reverse argument we had years ago when people only wanted beef derived phosphytidylserine. Turns out soy worked just as well.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
There is no evidence that soy derived PA is any better or worse in vivo despite that conflicting in vitro evidence (and conveniently so considering the funding).

This is the reverse argument we had years ago when people only wanted beef derived phosphytidylserine. Turns out soy worked just as well.
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^ I agree with this.

IIRC, the Mediator patent actually attempted to cover ALL PA regardless of what it was derived from.

End of the day though, highly unlikely these phospho compounds are being derived from anything other than soy. Just doesn't make sense from and economical standpoint when soy is such a huge commodity crop.
 
For users of King:

So is the consensus that the dosing with meal recommendation is solely for GI reasons?

If so it looks like most prefer all 3 preworkout?
 
Driven2lift said:
For users of King:

So is the consensus that the dosing with meal recommendation is solely for GI reasons?

If so it looks like most prefer all 3 preworkout?
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No GI issues and I've just finished the second bottle in a row today. I took it the same way I took M-PA, full PA dose preworkout (so, 3 caps of King).
 
kissdadookie said:
No GI issues and I've just finished the second bottle in a row today. I took it the same way I took M-PA, full PA dose preworkout (so, 3 caps of King).
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Missing my thank button, but thanks!

Just opened my first bottle today and dosed by directions, will try 3 pre tomorrow.

I'm behind just trying this now lol but I an adamant about running things solo to gauge them properly.
 
koi1214 said:
Very nice and keep us posted.
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Will do, and this is off topic but I was waiting to start this until I wrapped up a run of Dermastr3ngth.

Helped with recovery but I got no performance benefits or aesthetic change from 2 bottles.
 
paula said:
So the og king is not derived from soy PA?
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It should be derived from soy. King uses mediator for its source of pa, which is made by chemi nutra. It doesn't outright say that it is derived from soy, but I'm assuming that since they funded the study that shows that pa from soy is better that that is where they are getting their pa.
 
Well it could be, it make sense since they also funded the study and write article. Thanks for the info
 
koi1214 said:
I think I asked you before but are you seeing significant strength gains from KING?
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Not a huge jump in strength but some strength gains have been noticeable but it's not a huge jump in strength. I like PA because you can basically run it for an indefinite length so as a staple supplement, it's quite excellent. I think the pricing should be going down across the board making it even more likely to end up like another creatine or beta alanine.
 
kissdadookie said:
Not a huge jump in strength but some strength gains have been noticeable but it's not a huge jump in strength. I like PA because you can basically run it for an indefinite length so as a staple supplement, it's quite excellent. I think the pricing should be going down across the board making it even more likely to end up like another creatine or beta alanine.
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So what is the major benefit as you see it from having run it?

Thanks.
 
Shin Sprints said:
So what is the major benefit as you see it from having run it?

Thanks.
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Improved/accelerated progression on lifts. Excellent muscle fullness. A jump in what would appear to be glycogen and water retention in muscle at the beginning (thus a nice jump in scale weight early on, this however does not continue though as far as I can tell, so I guess your muscles reach capacity eventually?).
 
kissdadookie said:
Improved/accelerated progression on lifts. Excellent muscle fullness. A jump in what would appear to be glycogen and water retention in muscle at the beginning (thus a nice jump in scale weight early on, this however does not continue though as far as I can tell, so I guess your muscles reach capacity eventually?).
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Cool, thanks.

I have two bottles on the way so will probably arrive shortly. I will start as soon as I get it.
 
Contaygious said:
How long until you feel this stuff? On week two
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It's not a stimulant, you don't really "feel" it. Fuller muscles, some strength gain, some size gain. Possibly increased hunger in the early goings.

Mind you, this is based on me personally having only used 750 mg's of PA preworkout (so in the original King, that would be 3 capsules going by what's stated on the label for PA content).
 
Contaygious said:
Cool i do feel a bit bigger, buy I'm on a lot if stuff in my sig lol
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Well, we can assume that the size isn't coming from Peak Beta (I've used that, using it now actually, does not give me any extra pumps or size, I don't think it does all that much TBH, but it was free with the XF stack), Amino-IV, OT, or Select :P Probably not from your preworkout either because I'm going to assume you meant a size increase that has stuck, not just from a pump in the gym :P That leaves King, ostarine, possibly the (-)epi.
 
Contaygious said:
How long until you feel this stuff? On week two
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For me king was not something with acute affect. Not in strength or endurance.
But you really feel the difference after you stop it.
Actually i felt a noticeable drop in performance in the week and half after my 2 bottles run, despite being on ARA which I started right after the king.
 
abudabu said:
For me king was not something with acute affect. Not in strength or endurance.
But you really feel the difference after you stop it.
Actually i felt a noticeable drop in performance in the week and half after my 2 bottles run, despite being on ARA which I started right after the king.
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Thats 1 of the big things that convinced me it worked and to make it a staple, I was making great gains when I started it but I was just getting back into the gym. After like 4-5 months I stopped taking it and noticed a big drop in muscle fullness.
 
Contaygious said:
Cool i do feel a bit bigger, buy I'm on a lot if stuff in my sig lol
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It gives you muscle fullness for sure but osta and dermastrength work to I think
 
kissdadookie said:
It's not a stimulant, you don't really "feel" it. Fuller muscles, some strength gain, some size gain. Possibly increased hunger in the early goings.

Mind you, this is based on me personally having only used 750 mg's of PA preworkout (so in the original King, that would be 3 capsules going by what's stated on the label for PA content).
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Is the new cheaper king out yet? thinking of using at as a second dose of PA
 
kissdadookie said:
Not a huge jump in strength but some strength gains have been noticeable but it's not a huge jump in strength. I like PA because you can basically run it for an indefinite length so as a staple supplement, it's quite excellent. I think the pricing should be going down across the board making it even more likely to end up like another creatine or beta alanine.
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Ya I really think the best results will come from higher dosing when the price comes down, then it will become a staple for a lot of people. Good stuff
 
So let me get this straight...Old king was 2.1g with prop blend. New King is 1g prop blend, people in this thread have said reps have said it contains 750mg PA, and been hinted by a rep to have 200mg Niagen, which AFAIK is the last ingredient in the prop blend. Meaning that for sure there is AT THE VERY LEAST mislabeling as that leaves 50mg for the ingredients ahead of niagen in the blend. And the same company has been known to reformulate as soon as a product becomes popular, with the price being only very marginally better. And there is only 1 guy in this entire thread so far who thinks that is suspicious, rest seem fine with buying the new version and dont even consider it a downgrade.

Is this real life? For sure they lost me as a potential customer, was going to try the original but not after this shady practice.
 
I am suspicious which is why i bought all those bottles above! I'm sure a cheaper pa will come too.
 
Still suspicious but it could be possible they stopped adding the non-working herbal stuff to save money if the new formula has the right pa in it.

Just gotta wait for more pa products i guess. Micro is too much
 
dacookie said:
So let me get this straight...Old king was 2.1g with prop blend. New King is 1g prop blend, people in this thread have said reps have said it contains 750mg PA, and been hinted by a rep to have 200mg Niagen, which AFAIK is the last ingredient in the prop blend. Meaning that for sure there is AT THE VERY LEAST mislabeling as that leaves 50mg for the ingredients ahead of niagen in the blend. And the same company has been known to reformulate as soon as a product becomes popular, with the price being only very marginally better. And there is only 1 guy in this entire thread so far who thinks that is suspicious, rest seem fine with buying the new version and dont even consider it a downgrade.

Is this real life? For sure they lost me as a potential customer, was going to try the original but not after this shady practice.
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Actually, if you look at PA, what it is essentially going to be is soy lecithin concentrated for PA content. The other "ingredients" in there is in there but typically in very low amounts when you are concentrating for PA. Lecithin can be concentrated for up to 98% PA content (thus leaving 2% for trace amounts of the other things in lecithin). This is actually described in the original ChemiNutra patent. Mediator I think is concentrated to 60% PA content IIRC.

The new King also took out the herbal fluff ingredients.
 
dacookie said:
So let me get this straight...Old king was 2.1g with prop blend. New King is 1g prop blend, people in this thread have said reps have said it contains 750mg PA, and been hinted by a rep to have 200mg Niagen, which AFAIK is the last ingredient in the prop blend. Meaning that for sure there is AT THE VERY LEAST mislabeling as that leaves 50mg for the ingredients ahead of niagen in the blend. And the same company has been known to reformulate as soon as a product becomes popular, with the price being only very marginally better. And there is only 1 guy in this entire thread so far who thinks that is suspicious, rest seem fine with buying the new version and dont even consider it a downgrade.

Is this real life? For sure they lost me as a potential customer, was going to try the original but not after this shady practice.
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THAT THING ABOUT HAVING TO LABEL THE INGREDIENTS IN ORDER IS A MYTH
 
fightnews said:
THAT THING ABOUT HAVING TO LABEL THE INGREDIENTS IN ORDER IS A MYTH
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That is true but the new King formulation basically has 2 ingredients. PA enriched lecithin + Niagen. At this point, since they are not using Mediator, that Niagen is going to be the most expensive thing out of the two ingredients. So it's safe to assume that there's no more than 200 mgs of Niagen in there. Could be a little less but most certainly not going to be more. Then if you look at the constituents of the PA enriched lecithin, PS is probably the most expensive one, so likely there's very little in there, so most likely your getting practically all PA in that lecithin.
 
kissdadookie said:
That is true but the new King formulation basically has 2 ingredients. PA enriched lecithin + Niagen. At this point, since they are not using Mediator, that Niagen is going to be the most expensive thing out of the two ingredients. So it's safe to assume that there's no more than 200 mgs of Niagen in there. Could be a little less but most certainly not going to be more. Then if you look at the constituents of the PA enriched lecithin, PS is probably the most expensive one, so likely there's very little in there, so most likely your getting practically all PA in that lecithin.
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I thought it had like 5
 
fightnews said:
I thought it had like 5
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The new formulation? It's basically lecithin and then they break down the constituents of the lecithin. It should be concentrated for PA content, thus whatever you see after PA is most likely in there in very low amounts... if that is that it contains 750 mgs of PA.
 
kissdadookie said:
The new formulation? It's basically lecithin and then they break down the constituents of the lecithin. It should be concentrated for PA content, thus whatever you see after PA is most likely in there in very low amounts... if that is that it contains 750 mgs of PA.
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ohhh I see cool
 
kissdadookie said:
Yup. The key here however is that PRODUCING PA right now is a free for all. ChemiNutra no longer has a patent on PA so that opens up the market for others to produce it, thus the price on the raw will naturally get driven down. When ChemiNutra had a patent pending on PA, they essentially of a monopoly of sorts on PA, they also get to set the price at whatever they feel like they can sell it for without fear of anybody else undercutting them on price.

So it's really like a generic vs. name brand type of situation now. That's not to say that King might be underdosed, but it certainly doesn't mean that it's definitively not efficaciously dosed either.

4 caps of Micro-PA is efficacious though. That brings the PA content to around 500 mgs. It could totally be the case that King has 450-500 mgs at least of PA in it. That would still make the new King effective. Or it could be the case that they still have 750 mgs of PA in there.
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Do you have any links to patent rejection letters for PA?
 
fightnews said:
THAT THING ABOUT HAVING TO LABEL THE INGREDIENTS IN ORDER IS A MYTH
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If its a myth how come most supps do it and all food from what Ive seen? Jesus if thats the case Im not sure ill ever buy a prop blend again with something specific I want(PA, Niagen) cause they can legally put whatever they want and can guarantee most companys will put the biggest amounts of the cheapest ingredients. If a rep says X amount is in product they can simply sweep that under the rug 'good bro' style.
 
dacookie said:
If its a myth how come most supps do it and all food from what Ive seen? Jesus if thats the case Im not sure ill ever buy a prop blend again with something specific I want(PA, Niagen) cause they can legally put whatever they want and can guarantee most companys will put the biggest amounts of the cheapest ingredients. If a rep says X amount is in product they can simply sweep that under the rug 'good bro' style.
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I read somewhere a long time ago it was a myth but i cant seem to find anything on it now, maybe im wrong but i didnt look that hard.
 
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