Anyone not getting results from -epi? check in here.

Have you gotten results from your epi product?

  • yes

    Votes: 71 64.5%

  • no

    Votes: 39 35.5%
  • Total voters
    110
kisaj said:
It isn't caused by epi. People are pushing through normal limits and adding volume, so they aren't allowing time for their bodies to adjust. Epi is allowing this, but it is not causing injuries.
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I was 4 weeks in before I hurt my elbow and I only noticed strength/endurance gains during week one so that wasn't the case with my injury. I have not seen anyone run it this way but I'm thinking I might try a 4 day on 3 day off or a 5 day on 2 day off approach next time. Not sure the science behind it but that's how I run other supps like tongkat with success. I might ask brundel about that.
 
I've used multiple companies of -Epi

Follidrone-2 caps
Follidrex- 1 and 2 caps
Ep1c- 2 caps (highest dose of Epi from all)

Loved each run but I must say none seem to compare to Follidrone. Brundel might be right when he said he has the most potent.

I ran Follidrone for 4 weeks and all 4 weeks were epic. Endurance, and pumps were excellent. DOMS came at week 2 and continued on.

I'm running ep1c now at 2 caps (600mg) and I'm loving it but I don't seem to have the endurance I had when I ran Follidrone nor am I getting the intense DOMS I for with Follidrone.
 
halfhuman said:
Just my honest experience
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We all know you post honest reviews / honest things but rest assured there are no differences in potency and anything indicating that is speculation at best. A lot of people ask if (-)-epi needs to be cycled, so I'm going to ask if you have consistently used (-)- epi for the past few months without any breaks?

We have seen honest reviews and experiences from others as well in regards to our product providing more profound effects from when switching over to our product as well, so you could call this mixed feedback at best. :)
 
Olympus Labs said:
We all know you post honest reviews / honest things but rest assured there are no differences in potency and anything indicating that is speculation at best. A lot of people ask if (-)-epi needs to be cycled, so I'm going to ask if you have consistently used (-)- epi for the past few months without any breaks? We have seen honest reviews and experiences from others as well in regards to our product providing more profound effects from when switching over to our product as well, so you could call this mixed feedback at best. :)
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Thanx. No bashing what's so ever to any company. I love OL.

I've been on Epi for 6 weeks now. 4 with Follidrex and 2 with Ep1c. To be honest though I am lifting heavier compounds and it could be why my endurance is not as high as before. I will continue to keep an eye on everything and will report back. DOMS is def non existent though. Hardly get it
 
Olympus Labs said:
We all know you post honest reviews / honest things but rest assured there are no differences in potency and anything indicating that is speculation at best. A lot of people ask if (-)-epi needs to be cycled, so I'm going to ask if you have consistently used (-)- epi for the past few months without any breaks?

We have seen honest reviews and experiences from others as well in regards to our product providing more profound effects from when switching over to our product as well, so you could call this mixed feedback at best. :)
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I have used 2 bottles of Follidrone and really enjoyed them. It's been about 6 weeks now since I've been off of Follidrone. Today will be my first day on OL Ep1c and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it compares to Follidrone.
 
grocker said:
I have used 2 bottles of Follidrone and really enjoyed them. It's been about 6 weeks now since I've been off of Follidrone. Today will be my first day on OL Ep1c and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it compares to Follidrone.
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How have things held up since stopping the last run? Most people seem to report keeping gains, with the noticeable drop in endurance. I have a bunch of people at my wife's gym taking Follidrone in different stages and they are reporting right on par with the logs.
 
Olympus Labs said:
We all know you post honest reviews / honest things but rest assured there are no differences in potency and anything indicating that is speculation at best.
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Which is saying that you are just speculating that there is no difference in potency. Let's not try to compare unless there are facts.
 
kisaj said:
How have things held up since stopping the last run? Most people seem to report keeping gains, with the noticeable drop in endurance. I have a bunch of people at my wife's gym taking Follidrone in different stages and they are reporting right on par with the logs.
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kisaj, I have also kept my gains and there is a noticeable drop in endurance since I stopped using Follidrone. Usually when I stop using a mass building supplement, I look and feel smaller a few weeks after but this is not the case with Follidrone.
 
kisaj said:
Which is saying that you are just speculating that there is no difference in potency. Let's not try to compare unless there are facts.
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OL for its own internal QC purposes conducts H-NMR, C-NMR, LC-MS, and HPLC testing on all compounds whenever all testing methods are applicable on all compounds / products we provide. For (-)- specifically, we have also conducted optical rotation test to confirm the compound. Our HPLC testing concluded that our ingredient tested at 93.64% purity and over the 90% standard. We go to great lengths to ensure we provide the best quality we can.

Now define potency because with an open label like ours its not very hard to conclude that OL EP1C is more potent due to the fact that it contains 300mg @ 93.64 % pure (-)-epicatechin.

I will post the H-NMR, C-NMR, and LC-MS testing results later tonight in our subforum but please do note OL is not 'speculating'.
Now a troll / schill will say that some US companies brought (-)-epi to the market. The answer is twofold. Myosynergy was brought out at around the same time as the other company, and if this ingredient were truly innovative then the proper patent procedure would have been instilled to protect the founding company's 'innovation' such as is the case with Thermolife's various patents on nitrates. That is how you define innovation.

(-)-epicatechin is readily available through various suppliers in China. It's no hidden gym and has been manufactured longer than any (-)-epicatechin product has been out.
 
horizons said:
Well I suffered a chest sprain while taking EPI too. Injuries are starting to pop up
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AndrewMcD said:
How would this be caused from epi?
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horizons said:
^^this
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maybe not......this is interesting:

Invalid Link Removed

Researchers at the University of Michigan discovered this while doing experiments with mice that had been genetically modified so that they could no longer produce myostatin. The muscles of the mice were bigger and stronger, but their tendons were small and brittle

The researchers found myostatin receptors in the tendons. When they looked at the strength of the tendons of the normal mice and those without myostatin, the researchers also noticed that the tendons of the mice without myostatin were more brittle and stiff. You can see the stiffness in the graph below.

"Those interested in myostatin inhibitors need to be aware of the fact that by doing these things to muscles, they may be having negative effects on tendons", warns research leader John Faulkner. The researchers suspect that muscles manufacture myostatin for a reason: it appears to strengthen the tendons.
 
Massive increase in strength, muscle size, hardness, and vascularity. I'm leaner, massive increases in bench, curls, squats. I did 300 lbs on bench for 15 reps, before was going 275x8. I'm 6 weeks in 8 week cycle. Might take a month off and try it again 8 weeks...My joints are getting tender not due to ep1c, but more due to the fast increase of weights and volume...
 
Epi has to be the currently most hyped ingredient on AM. Last product to receive this much hype was versa-1 and that was a piece of ****. I can't wait to try ep1c :)
 
Adizzle1 said:
maybe not......this is interesting:

Invalid Link Removed

Researchers at the University of Michigan discovered this while doing experiments with mice that had been genetically modified so that they could no longer produce myostatin. The muscles of the mice were bigger and stronger, but their tendons were small and brittle

The researchers found myostatin receptors in the tendons. When they looked at the strength of the tendons of the normal mice and those without myostatin, the researchers also noticed that the tendons of the mice without myostatin were more brittle and stiff. You can see the stiffness in the graph below.

"Those interested in myostatin inhibitors need to be aware of the fact that by doing these things to muscles, they may be having negative effects on tendons", warns research leader John Faulkner. The researchers suspect that muscles manufacture myostatin for a reason: it appears to strengthen the tendons.
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Good to know.
 
For those of you looking to get follidrone we just got it back in stock all follidrone orders are shipping on Monday
The reviews we have had on follidrone have been great so far. Some had great gains others maintained during PCT no complaints thus far. We haven't as much feedback yet on the other epi products because we haven't been selling them for as long. Get yours here if want to see if it works for you. Invalid Link Removed. We are also offering a free MRI bag full of samples and water bottle for the first 50 AM members that order. Put that you are from AM in the order notes of any order.
 
Adizzle1 said:
maybe not......this is interesting:

Invalid Link Removed

Researchers at the University of Michigan discovered this while doing experiments with mice that had been genetically modified so that they could no longer produce myostatin. The muscles of the mice were bigger and stronger, but their tendons were small and brittle

The researchers found myostatin receptors in the tendons. When they looked at the strength of the tendons of the normal mice and those without myostatin, the researchers also noticed that the tendons of the mice without myostatin were more brittle and stiff. You can see the stiffness in the graph below.

"Those interested in myostatin inhibitors need to be aware of the fact that by doing these things to muscles, they may be having negative effects on tendons", warns research leader John Faulkner. The researchers suspect that muscles manufacture myostatin for a reason: it appears to strengthen the tendons.
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This isnt really relevant though.
You are comparing genetically modified animals to non.

ITs like comparing mice born without balls with a guy whos test levels were low briefly post cycle.
These animals were born without Myostatin. This isnt the same as lowering it for a short period after tendons are fully developed.
I have never seen any studies indicating (-)-epicatechin has any negative effects on tendons.
 
halfhuman said:
I've been on Epi for 6 weeks now. 4 with Follidrex and 2 with Ep1c.
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you really shouldn't notice a dip in effectiveness until being on it over 3 months... 3 months on / 1 month off is an alternate dosing scheme
 
Adizzle1 said:
maybe not......this is interesting:

Invalid Link Removed

Researchers at the University of Michigan discovered this while doing experiments with mice that had been genetically modified so that they could no longer produce myostatin. The muscles of the mice were bigger and stronger, but their tendons were small and brittle

The researchers found myostatin receptors in the tendons. When they looked at the strength of the tendons of the normal mice and those without myostatin, the researchers also noticed that the tendons of the mice without myostatin were more brittle and stiff. You can see the stiffness in the graph below.

"Those interested in myostatin inhibitors need to be aware of the fact that by doing these things to muscles, they may be having negative effects on tendons", warns research leader John Faulkner. The researchers suspect that muscles manufacture myostatin for a reason: it appears to strengthen the tendons.
Click to expand...

Great post, makes you think twice about running (-)-epi nonstop :)

The other theory that people are breaking new barriers and causing injuries also makes a lot of sense. Spread the word, learn and improve
 
goodvibes said:
Great post, makes you think twice about running (-)-epi nonstop :)

The other theory that people are breaking new barriers and causing injuries also makes a lot of sense. Spread the word, learn and improve
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it won't destroy your tendons if you run it nonstop, if you run it nonstop it will simply become less effective. The concern regarding damage to the tendons should be overdoing it within the first 3 months on the compound
 
Touey said:
it won't destroy your tendons if you run it nonstop, if you run it nonstop it will simply become less effective. The concern regarding damage to the tendons should be overdoing within the first 3 months on the compound
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I highly doubt that any dose of (-)epi would actually hurt tendons. I'm not even that convinced that it's really inhibiting myostatin, I suspect whatever benefits it holds is coming from strong anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory properties.
 
kissdadookie said:
I highly doubt that any dose of (-)epi would actually hurt tendons. I'm not even that convinced that it's really inhibiting myostatin, I suspect whatever benefits it holds is coming from strong anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory properties.
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I choose not to debate dook, it requires ceasing your dayjob, a rather circular endless affair
 
Touey said:
it won't destroy your tendons if you run it nonstop, if you run it nonstop it will simply become less effective. The concern regarding damage to the tendons should be overdoing within the first 3 months on the compound
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kissdadookie said:
I highly doubt that any dose of (-)epi would actually hurt tendons. I'm not even that convinced that it's really inhibiting myostatin, I suspect whatever benefits it holds is coming from strong anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory properties.
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Did you two have any study that running it nonstop will not hurt your tendons? Or (-)-epi not inhibiting myostatin? Anyways it's 530am I'm hitting the sack.

Someone actually posted a very informative topic that gave us an insight with what happens if you block myostatin altogether.
 
goodvibes said:
Did you two have any study that running it nonstop will not hurt your tendons? Or (-)-epi not inhibiting myostatin? Anyways it's 530am I'm hitting the sack.

Someone actually posted a very informative topic that gave us an insight with what happens if you block myostatin altogether.
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it is an interesting study and has been posted before, it is though simply not applicable to our use of (-)-epi
 
I'll end up finding out as I am running it nonstop and will opening bottle 4 this weekend. Joints feel as good as ever.
 
goodvibes said:
Did you two have any study that running it nonstop will not hurt your tendons? Or (-)-epi not inhibiting myostatin? Anyways it's 530am I'm hitting the sack.

Someone actually posted a very informative topic that gave us an insight with what happens if you block myostatin altogether.
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That is if you actually block myostatin. Yes, it will have an adverse effect on joints/tendons/ligaments.

As for (-)epi inhibiting myostatin, ONE study suggests this BUT it was 1) done on the elderly 2) tested for grip strength of all things after 7 days (results could very well have been placebo) 3) had no control group 4) and the markers on myostatin they checked for, I think De__eB pointed out in the past, is something that vitamind-d3 has been demonstrated to do but let's be serious here, vitamin-d3 isn't much of a myostating inhibitor now is it?

So I'm not claiming that (-)epi is bunk, I'm just simply suggesting that with the information available, the effects and benefits it may have are probably not due to any strong (or any at all) myostatin inhibiting properties. Thus I don't really see the adverse effects on joints/tendons/ligaments/etc. from blocking myostatin to be of an issue with (-)epi regardless of how high or how long of a period you use the stuff for.

kisaj said:
I'll end up finding out as I am running it nonstop and will opening bottle 4 this weekend. Joints feel as good as ever.
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^ I'm more inclined to believe that since (-)epi is a strong anti-oxidant and I think also a strong anti-inflammatory.
 
kissdadookie said:
That is if you actually block myostatin. Yes, it will have an adverse effect on joints/tendons/ligaments.

As for (-)epi inhibiting myostatin, ONE study suggests this BUT it was 1) done on the elderly 2) tested for grip strength of all things after 7 days (results could very well have been placebo) 3) had no control group 4) and the markers on myostatin they checked for, I think De__eB pointed out in the past, is something that vitamind-d3 has been demonstrated to do but let's be serious here, vitamin-d3 isn't much of a myostating inhibitor now is it?

So I'm not claiming that (-)epi is bunk, I'm just simply suggesting that with the information available, the effects and benefits it may have are probably not due to any strong (or any at all) myostatin inhibiting properties. Thus I don't really see the adverse effects on joints/tendons/ligaments/etc. from blocking myostatin to be of an issue with (-)epi regardless of how high or how long of a period you use the stuff for.



^ I'm more inclined to believe that since (-)epi is a strong anti-oxidant and I think also a strong anti-inflammatory.
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you're a curious fellow dook I'll give you that, you'll become hooked upon a study such as the one on clear muscle, defend it tooth and nail all over the net, yet refuse to believe hundreds of people's experiences on (-)-epi
 
Touey said:
you're a curious fellow dook I'll give you that, you'll become hooked upon a study such as the one on clear muscle, defend it tooth and nail all over the net, yet refuse to believe hundreds of people's experiences on (-)-epi
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You're mistaking my comments on the myostatin blocking MOA with effectiveness. I'm not claiming that it's not effective, I'm just suggesting that it's probably not due to blocking myostatin.

As for CM, there's no question how HMB works, it's been well known for over 2 decades now. The question with HMB was how or what to apply it to. The HMB-FA study gives us an example of a training scenario in which it can be of benefit.
 
kissdadookie said:
You're mistaking my comments on the myostatin blocking MOA with effectiveness. I'm not claiming that it's not effective, I'm just suggesting that it's probably not due to blocking myostatin.

As for CM, there's no question how HMB works, it's been well known for over 2 decades now. The question with HMB was how or what to apply it to. The HMB-FA study gives us an example of a training scenario in which it can be of benefit.
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I see, you're suggesting the mechanism of action for the purported results thus far to be anti-oxidant / anti-inflammatory properties
 
All I know is that it sure isn't the anti-oxidant/ anti-inflammatory benefits that are allowing me to push through PRs. It is obviously a great health benefit, but not what most people are seeing as the primary benefits when it comes to the gym or whatever activity they are in which requires strength and endurance.
 
kisaj said:
Logic is lost on fightnews. He likes to stir up drama.
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False I like to get the most information available good or bad as opposed to you who only wants good for your product.
 
<..logic once again goes out window.....drama is once again stirred....oh, fightnews must have re-entered the fray, of course..>

jesus, tiresome
 
Touey said:
I see, you're suggesting the mechanism of action for the purported results thus far to be anti-oxidant / anti-inflammatory properties
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EXACTLY. Not definitively but the information available on the ingredient would suggest this. Also the overwhelming anecdotal feedback from people have all universally (more or less) pointed out that there are notable endurance boosts, this would further suggest that it's the anti-oxidant/possibly anti-inflammatory effects of the ingredient.

Anti-oxidants/anti-inflammatory effects don't just cover general health benefits, they could have direct/indirect impact on other things such as performance and recovery. Performance and recovery of course results in possible better gains.
 
But antioxidant can't cause protein synthesis right? Also what about the crazy pump?
 
Touey said:
you're a curious fellow dook I'll give you that, you'll become hooked upon a study such as the one on clear muscle, defend it tooth and nail all over the net, yet refuse to believe hundreds of people's experiences on (-)-epi
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will the real touey please stand up....you must have invested in rosetta stone!!!
 
Interesting kissdadookie! So ep1c might just be a super antioxident that is more powerful than all the usual ones. Wouldn't that make like green tea extract in high quantities amazing?
 
thebigt said:
will the real touey please stand up....you must have invested in rosetta stone!!!
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Touey is Brundel's altered state. Lol.
 
Touey has been blowing minds since taking Follidrone. Further evidence that it not only helps the body, it helps the mind.


LOL
 
kissdadookie said:
Could be indirect effects? A more efficient body I would think ultimately leads to everything else working more efficiently.

As for pumps: Invalid Link Removed
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I'm completely impartial in this matter but you seem to be a little fixated on your point of view in regards to explaining what's happening with all these (-)-epicatechin users / logs. Yes there are limited studies on the ingredient itself but if you take the countless logs on AM surrounding EP1C, Follidrone, etc you'll find that (-)-epicatechin is not just responsible for being a strong anti-oxidant/anti-inflammatory.

People have bulked up 20 lbs while just using (-)-epicatechin. A user was benching 275*8 and now benching 315*5. The list of these sort of feats goes on and on, and on, and I think its pretty well established by now this isn't all the result of placebo. It works period. Now if you need an actual study with a control group to establish the facts to you then great, but please take a look at the countless logs of all the people reporting amazing results as well.

here's a place to skim over the results of AM users. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/olympus-labs/251697-q-olympus-labs-7.html . It doesn't just have benefits in "elderly people."
 
Contaygious said:
Interesting kissdadookie! So ep1c might just be a super antioxident that is more powerful than all the usual ones. Wouldn't that make like green tea extract in high quantities amazing?
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Thing with green tea extracts, we don't know how much of what it's being standardized for. (-)epi, supposedly that's what you're getting, just that compound.

It's like with this other well-known and usually highly mocked/laughed at product (on message boards, mostly due to how ridiculous the stuff originally sold for) that is on the market geared for bb'ers that is highly concentrated C3G (cyanidin 3-glucoside), I believe that it’s concentrated to around 50%. You could take other supplements/products that contains C3G but they are nowhere near as concentrated and contains a lot of other anthocyanins which could compete and lower the effectiveness of the C3G. I’ve actually been using the stuff for a little while because it comes practically free with the other stuff I’ve been stocking up/ordering. Personal experience is that it does indeed reduce carb water bloat as well as having a positive effect on countering the gorged feeling from large feedings. So it’s doing something in regards to carbs intake, might not be exactly how the advert explains it but it’s doing something that is tangible (I don’t recommend people to buy the stuff on it’s own though, too friggin expensive, not worth it at the asking price of buying it on it’s own).

There’s a LOT of anti-oxidants out there that needs further research on because many of them are very promising. Cocoa alone has a lot of other anti-oxidants, (-)epi being one of the most potent/beneficial that has been documented. You can’t go crazy and eat a whole lot of cocoa powder either, because there’s also a lot of other things in cocoa which would not be good if you took too much of.
 
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