Smash is Bulking: 1-test c/test e/test base/eq

I really like var, the strength kick for me was a lot greater then dbol. It also made me feel hard, and lean. Got a little bit of back pumps but not nearly as bad as I did on dbol which really hindered my deadlifts, made it a very long process.might I ask what the big deal with taking var and mast, my reasoning for this cycle is I wanna cut while increasing my strength.
 
thyrod said:
I really like var, the strength kick for me was a lot greater then dbol. It also made me feel hard, and lean. Got a little bit of back pumps but not nearly as bad as I did on dbol which really hindered my deadlifts, made it a very long process.might I ask what the big deal with taking var and mast, my reasoning for this cycle is I wanna cut while increasing my strength.
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Don't get me wrong, I really like var too. It made me hard and lean, and I felt great on it. Helped my abs come out and my endurance went through the roof. It seems that some people think they might be too similar, but when I look the combo up it sounds like there's some good feedback. I'd consider running it, but there's better options for my goals and I don't have the same issues with dbol as you do.

I'd say run a test/var cycle and a test/mast cycle to see the difference when you run a test/var/mast cycle, but that's just me. What I'll prolly do is while running test/mast/EQ throw in some var, but I'd most likely do tbol first...

Who knows maybe if you go for it and it goes well I might do it in my next blast. Keep me posted.
 
smash1904 said:
1) With test I've used 600mg/week for short periods, figured 750mg would be worth trying, but do I really need to if I'm adding 50mg dbol/day? I think I'd get as much with less sides out of 600/50 then 750/50.

2) sounds good

3) I've been running 600mg for awhile, I'll bump it up for two blasts to see how I like it.

4) so they are too similar of compounds to see much of a difference then just more mg of one or the other? Really my consideration with this was last summer I ran 250mg/week test e, 25mg/day dbol, and 80mg/day var and was quite surprised by how much it brought out my abs, and how the sides were nill. Would it maybe be worth trying a mast/test/eq/var blast in the future?

5) ok I now know a good cut for myself

6) 50mg dbol it is:

Test E 375mg/week
Test P 225mg/week
Mast E 400mg/week
EQ 900mg/week
Dbol 50mg/day

So you think I should change up my cruise? Right now I'm doing 600mg EQ but was considering:

Test E 125mg/week
Mast E 100mg/week
EQ 300mg/week

Thanks again for going over this with me. Sometimes I need a little mentoring...
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Run 600mg for the whole blast to get a real feel of how you react to it. I'm not a huge fan of mixing test esters and would rather do the 600mg of just a long ester, but that's just me. Other than that, the blast looks good to me. On the cruise, you might need to bump that test dose to at least 200mg/week or, at the very least, taper down to that dosage.
 
Rodja said:
Run 600mg for the whole blast to get a real feel of how you react to it. I'm not a huge fan of mixing test esters and would rather do the 600mg of just a long ester, but that's just me. Other than that, the blast looks good to me. On the cruise, you might need to bump that test dose to at least 200mg/week or, at the very least, taper down to that dosage.
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Well I've been on 600mg EQ for about 18 weeks, so I kind of feel I've got a hang of it. If you're saying I should see how I react to my new basic protocol, and do that with my EQ at 600mg then ok. But I feel I'm more than ready to bump it up...

The reason I'm saying to mix long and short esters is based on how easily I can measure it out in 2-3 injections. 2 injections is 6-7cc, 3 is 9-10.5cc. Test E 250mg is easily dosed at 500 and 750 for 2 or 3 injections. But to get that 600mg range I'd need 3 half cc injections of test e 250 and test p 150, aka 375mg + 225mg. M/W/F or M/F is easy for me, eod is not.

And for the cruise I was basically saying mix one cc EQ 300mg half cc test e 250mg and one cc mast 200mg for two cc total and take a half cc M/F for two weeks. Is there a better way of doing this? Drop mast for test maybe?
 
Day: 135

Weight: 192

My weight had actually gone down, so I sat myself down and forced myself to eat. I started with 50g of dextrose post workout with 5iu of slin. No problems there, which is good. I think my problem was doing it preworkout, but I'll keep everyone posted. If all goes well I'll be starting a morning dose as well, and may also work up how many iu I take at a time.

I'll be getting some injectable carnitine as well, from what I read slin is what drives carnitine into muscle to burn fat. Choline also has synergy with carnitine, and creatine gets forced into muscle by slin as well. Not necessarily now, but maybe within the next couple blasts.
 
smash1904 said:
Well I've been on 600mg EQ for about 18 weeks, so I kind of feel I've got a hang of it. If you're saying I should see how I react to my new basic protocol, and do that with my EQ at 600mg then ok. But I feel I'm more than ready to bump it up...The reason I'm saying to mix long and short esters is based on how easily I can measure it out in 2-3 injections. 2 injections is 6-7cc, 3 is 9-10.5cc. Test E 250mg is easily dosed at 500 and 750 for 2 or 3 injections. But to get that 600mg range I'd need 3 half cc injections of test e 250 and test p 150, aka 375mg + 225mg. M/W/F or M/F is easy for me, eod is not.And for the cruise I was basically saying mix one cc EQ 300mg half cc test e 250mg and one cc mast 200mg for two cc total and take a half cc M/F for two weeks. Is there a better way of doing this? Drop mast for test maybe?
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I meant runt the whole blast at 600mg/week of test. Personally, I'd bump the EQ to 800-1000/week (depending on your concentration). To me, 125mg/week of test for a cruise will have you feeling pretty low and beatdown especially as you get bigger with each blast.
 
Rodja said:
I meant runt the whole blast at 600mg/week of test. Personally, I'd bump the EQ to 800-1000/week (depending on your concentration). To me, 125mg/week of test for a cruise will have you feeling pretty low and beatdown especially as you get bigger with each blast.
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Ok, that does make sense, but leaves me wondering will you still get the same benefit after two weeks of cruising? From what I understood the two weeks off were meant to make you fresh for your next 8 week blast by lowering myostatin. You drop or greatly lower all aas for two weeks, as well as drop workout volume and protein intake. Granted 550mg is much lower than 2250-2500mg by a great deal...
Cruise:
Test E 250mg
EQ 300mg

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with this, so I really appreciate the knowledge.
 
smash1904 said:
Ok, that does make sense, but leaves me wondering will you still get the same benefit after two weeks of cruising? From what I understood the two weeks off were meant to make you fresh for your next 8 week blast by lowering myostatin. You drop or greatly lower all aas for two weeks, as well as drop workout volume and protein intake. Granted 550mg is much lower than 2250-2500mg by a great deal... Cruise: Test E 250mg EQ 300mg Sounds like you have a lot of experience with this, so I really appreciate the knowledge.
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A cruise is supposed to last much longer than 2 weeks. Mine last closer to 2-3 months (depending on training phase).
 
Rodja said:
A cruise is supposed to last much longer than 2 weeks. Mine last closer to 2-3 months (depending on training phase).
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Ok I see the difference now, with the slingshot training I was talking about its eight week blasts with two week cruises. The two weeks is just short enough to keep you from losing any gains if youd gone cold turkey(the recommendation is to run pct even though the androgens haven't cleared your system). Its also long enough for you to make gains like you're starting a whole new cycle, the explanation is that you stop gaining at eight weeks cause of myostatin and it only takes two weeks of low aas/protein/training volume to be refreshed for new cycle like gains. Obviously if you were going with longer cruises you'd need greater total aas.
 
smash1904 said:
Ok I see the difference now, with the slingshot training I was talking about its eight week blasts with two week cruises. The two weeks is just short enough to keep you from losing any gains if youd gone cold turkey(the recommendation is to run pct even though the androgens haven't cleared your system). Its also long enough for you to make gains like you're starting a whole new cycle, the explanation is that you stop gaining at eight weeks cause of myostatin and it only takes two weeks of low aas/protein/training volume to be refreshed for new cycle like gains. Obviously if you were going with longer cruises you'd need greater total aas.
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Considering that the esters are still clearing during that two week time period, I doubt that myostatin is going to decrease to any significant degree as you still have androgens in the blood.
 
Rodja said:
Considering that the esters are still clearing during that two week time period, I doubt that myostatin is going to decrease to any significant degree as you still have androgens in the blood.
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Quoting Ronnie Rowland:

Slingshot Training entails blasting for as long as humanly possible before having to take time off from heavy training. A blast is composed of two training phases-a "reload" and a "deload". The reload is a higher volume training phase that last 8 weeks and a deload is a lower volume training phase that last 2 weeks. Slingshot training works by reloading with more volume while your on an 8 week anabolic steroid cycle or 8 week pro-hormone cycle, etc. Anabolics have been shown to work best for appoximately 8 weeks. After that point, additional muscle gains slow dramatically and you would need to use higher amounts drugs or supplements to advance further. The problem with that approach is unwanted side effects. So in order to keep making maximum progress you come off a heavy cycle by lowering the amount of anabolics used, do a pct, or bridge with a small dose of anabolics for 2 weeks-all while reducing training volume and protein intake. This 2 week period of reducing volume and protein is called a deload and it encourages receptor sites to become more sensitive to anabolics so that when you return to another (steroid cycle/reload) you'll make more gains with less side effects. To recap: You use more training volume and take in more protein during your 8 week anabolic steroid cycles so you can get the most out of each cycle. This is your reload ! After the reload you begin deloading for 2 weeks by using less training volume, higher reps (12-15) less anabolics and taking in less protein so you can return to another 8 week anabolic cycle/reload 2 weeks later and make continued progress. The cycle continues (reload/deload/reload/deload/reload/deload,etc)

Would you perhaps recommend against this protocol?
 
I wouldn't follow that protocol as it lumps all hormones in together without regards to the ester. EQ is barely starting to kick in at the 8 week mark.
 
Rodja said:
I wouldn't follow that protocol as it lumps all hormones in together without regards to the ester. EQ is barely starting to kick in at the 8 week mark.
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Ya that's actually what I had trouble understanding, and why I had made EQ my constant. I would say from the short time following it I have noticed pretty good effects, with a lot less sides. My skin, for instance, is mostly clear, which wasn't the case when I'd run long cycles. Also after about 4-5 months of test I'd get really bad ED and lowered sex drive - now I feel more or less normal, with good effect without having to raise doses.

Can you explain the differences between the protocol I've been following, and the one you're suggesting?
 
smash1904 said:
Ya that's actually what I had trouble understanding, and why I had made EQ my constant. I would say from the short time following it I have noticed pretty good effects, with a lot less sides. My skin, for instance, is mostly clear, which wasn't the case when I'd run long cycles. Also after about 4-5 months of test I'd get really bad ED and lowered sex drive - now I feel more or less normal, with good effect without having to raise doses. Can you explain the differences between the protocol I've been following, and the one you're suggesting?
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I approach my cruises like a PCT (for lack of a better term) in that I roughly have the same amount of time blasting as I do cruising give or take a few weeks.

I look at it from a couple of other angles: health numbers (e.g. lipids) and scar tissue. Unless you're getting some potent gear, the amount of oil you inject starts to add up over the years and scar tissue accumulates.

The skin issue is most likely from mast as DHT tends to cause some skin issues. The ED, though, is convoluted and could be a number of factors.
 
Pretty good, I'm hardening up and growing slowly, super vascular too. Workouts have been great. I'm just getting ready for my son to arrive, he'll be born Monday. Stay posted.
 
Day: 152

Weight: 196

I was a little bummed out yesterday, I went to get a rental car from this place I've been before and he didn't recognize me - he said without the beard he couldn't tell cause I'd lost so much weight. I feel like my weight is crawling back, and at 196 I'm still 11-12 lbs short of my recent PR. Well its not holding me back, I feel I needed it to give me perspective of where I want to be, and to work harder. I put the white board back up for meal planning and bought 10 ghrp2 and cjc no dac cause that stuff makes me hungrier than anything.

Last two workouts have been great, I'm looking good, growing and getting leaner, its just slow. I'm happy though, quality gains are always good and I'm feeling harder by the day. Remember my goal is competition ready at 205. 210 sub 10% bf is where I'm aiming.
 
smash1904 said:
Day: 152 Weight: 196 I was a little bummed out yesterday, I went to get a rental car from this place I've been before and he didn't recognize me - he said without the beard he couldn't tell cause I'd lost so much weight. I feel like my weight is crawling back, and at 196 I'm still 11-12 lbs short of my recent PR. Well its not holding me back, I feel I needed it to give me perspective of where I want to be, and to work harder. I put the white board back up for meal planning and bought 10 ghrp2 and cjc no dac cause that stuff makes me hungrier than anything. Last two workouts have been great, I'm looking good, growing and getting leaner, its just slow. I'm happy though, quality gains are always good and I'm feeling harder by the day. Remember my goal is competition ready at 205. 210 sub 10% bf is where I'm aiming.
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Congrats in the child! Ghrp and cjc have me awesome hunger, like to the point I would feel hypo then just chow down, in my opinion it's better then munches although if you combine them.... That's a whole new story. Get big dood! Eat eat eat!
 
Day: 158

Weight: 198

I am half way through this blast, and I made a little change: dropped dbol for tren. The reasoning for this is a little funny too: the stack gives me a perpetual errection, and this is a problem because my wife had a csection and can't have sex for awhile. It was actually upsetting her quite badly, and so this was the solution we came up with. I kickstarted with 400mg Wednesday 300mg Thursday and 300mg Friday. Already feeling it, and I'm expecting big things.

I do have one question:
Should I keep test the same, or drop it to 250mg? I wanna see if I have less sides doing the low test tren thing at some point, but maybe I should just see how this treats me first?
 
Day: 161

Weight: 199

First off I'm not feeling super hot - it looks like I have Gastroenteritis or Gastroparesis. Its very mild but I'm feeling weak, no appetite/stomach ache, headache, and I'm constantly burping up what tastes like sulfer/eggs. This has been going for two days now, I'm just now starting to feel better.

Despite this my weight is still going up, and I'm looking leaner and fuller. I think the next couple weeks will be very exciting with me. The sides aren't that bad either, at least from what I can tell(I feel sick, but the sweats aren't that bad, and I'm sleeping pretty good). So far just a little more breaking out, so I'm showering more and taking 10g b5.

Also I will not be changing my test dose, just to see how the 2:1 ratio treats me.
 
Alright so I've got a new roommate, opens sports clubs and has friends that have gone pro. We've been having a lot of conversations, says he wants to train with me and give me some helpful pointers. I'm a little nervous cause I haven't had a training partner in like 5 years, but I'm liking his feedback, and some educated outside perspective is always helpful - although a bit discouraging at times.
 
Day: 169

Weight: 199

Weight dipped with the food poisoning, just now got back to where I was, the ghrp2 is great - turns my stomach into a bottomless pit multiple times per day. Haven't really been able to do it more than 3x in a day, but I'm expecting some good weight with the way I'm eating right now. All I can say is ghrp2 is the stuff for me, I won't be hungry at all, I take it and then I'm famished.

So my roommate is talking about me simplifying my cycle, and focusing on muscle maturity. He's telling me to take winni/tren/clen and I'm hesitant about the winni cause of the joint problems and clen makes me feel like ****/kills my hunger. I don't see how that'd help me when I'm still bulking. Any incite?

I'd be down with eca/tren/mast or var with a trt dose of test and some caber. Var has actually caught my attention for a few reasons - namely it having a low binding affinity to the AR and it's non AR mediated effects like AR upregulation... It's got very little sides and makes whatever you take with it work better?
 
Day: 174

Weight: 199

Weight hasn't really changed but I'm leaning out and looking bigger so I'm getting some good recomp right now. Other than me breaking out a little more and skin being a tad greasier the only major side I'm having is the sweating - I'm talking perpetual heavy sweating, I wake up in puddle of sweat like I pissed myself, I change my shirt 3-4x a day. My wife says I feel hot too, like heat us radiating off me... honestly I don't mind much, the changes in the mirror are crazy and I'm just going to run more Accutane tell I can sweat like this and not break out from it. I'm showering 2-3x a day right and taking pantethine so it's minimal, but still I want no blemishes at all.

I've got to say I feel amazing right now. Strong, only mild lethargy at times, and a constant sense of well being. And my workouts? The pumps are almost too much, it gets painful. My veins are spiderwebbing everywhere, I'm seeing more striation- it's awesome. My libido isn't even being negatively impacted, so my considerations of starting pramight again are purely for pramis "sides"/benefits - I tolerate it well.

Another couple weeks like this, then I'll be switching to:

Tren 300mg/week
Mast 500mg/week
Test 125-250mg/week

Just to start experimenting with this kind of protocol....
 
Day: 190

Weight: 197

I got back up to about 205, but have only been able to get to the gym once or twice per week for the last two weeks. Haven't been eating enough, but it's from the stress of being a new father. I'm trying to work more to catch up on some bills, and honestly I'm just exhausted. Lethargy hit me like a brick, I can tell my kidneys are struggling(dark stinky urine) and I have De Quervain's Tendinosis, so I'm taking a lot of NSAIDs.

Anyways I figured it'd be a good time to drop everything, and then restart a mild lower dose cycle. Tren is awesome, and I will run it again(next time with low dose test) but I'm not hitting it hard enough to make the sides worth my while...

This is the end of my log, I'm switching to low weight high rep full body workouts until I can commit to get enough time in the gym and eating clean to really gain quality muscle, until then I'll be running a low dose cruise protocol.

So I'm looking back and I gained about 10 lbs since December, and although that's disappointing to me, I'm leaner and harder than I was, much more vascular, and my strength is up on all lifts with little injury. This was a difficult time to train with the baby coming, so I'm happy for any progress, but in retrospect I think I could of gotten here on 500mg test and 400mg mast which would have been better for me health wise. Just goes to show that it doesn't matter what you take if you don't have diet and training squared away, and you aren't sleeping enough.
 
smash1904 said:
Day: 190 Weight: 197 I got back up to about 205, but have only been able to get to the gym once or twice per week for the last two weeks. Haven't been eating enough, but it's from the stress of being a new father. I'm trying to work more to catch up on some bills, and honestly I'm just exhausted. Lethargy hit me like a brick, I can tell my kidneys are struggling(dark stinky urine) and I have De Quervain's Tendinosis, so I'm taking a lot of NSAIDs. Anyways I figured it'd be a good time to drop everything, and then restart a mild lower dose cycle. Tren is awesome, and I will run it again(next time with low dose test) but I'm not hitting it hard enough to make the sides worth my while... This is the end of my log, I'm switching to low weight high rep full body workouts until I can commit to get enough time in the gym and eating clean to really gain quality muscle, until then I'll be running a low dose cruise protocol.
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Hope you get everything sorted Sam, sounds like your making the right choice considering what you've go going on.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Hope you get everything sorted Sam, sounds like your making the right choice considering what you've go going on.
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Ya I just can't give 100% right now so why put my body through all that, and waste money. I can maintain and gain on far less, and I'll be much more comfortable.
 
Just a couple back shots from the end of the cycle.

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smash1904 said:
Just a couple back shots from the end of the cycle. <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102842"/> <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102843"/> <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102844"/> <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102845"/>
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Your traps are insane!!
 
smash1904 said:
Just a couple back shots from the end of the cycle. <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102842"/> <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102843"/> <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102844"/> <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102845"/>
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Looking good man. You've come a long way since the first log of yours that I followed.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Looking good man. You've come a long way since the first log of yours that I followed.
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I appreciate hearing these words of encouragement: it goes a long way when you're feeling discouraged at what you feel is a lack of progress. To hear there's improvement motivates me to work harder when I feel my hard work has been, to a certain extent, wasted. Not to say I've ever planned on giving up, it's just easier to get pumped when you look at yourself and feel you're no where near where you want to be, but hear from others that you're closer than you think. You hear pros saying they can always see places where they can improve as well, I guess this is bodybuilders dismorphia - to look in the mirror and have trouble seeing yourself big enough(or even big at all).

I do feel my traps are a strong feature as well.
 
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