The Arachidonic Acid Help Guide

OP updated to include info on when to use Ara if you have a pre-workout meal
 
Tbol said:
Is it known how the absence of gms effects the Ara cycle?
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It'll work just fine without. Adding GMS just ensures that the Ara is emulsifed
 
Tbol said:
Thanks, just didn't want the cycle to go down the toilet also!
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That won't happen :D

it'll still be effective!
 
warbird01 said:
Try to dose it on an empty stomach but sometimes life gets in the way and it's impossible to have an empty stomach lol. It's not the end of the world.
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Well said, I never take it on an empty stomach and always get tremendous results. I'm using 4 X-Factor a day currently and hit 365 on bench last night!
 
Jiigzz - thanks so much for putting this together!

Regarding the immflamation - what are the thoughts around doing extensive cardio (1-1.5 hr runs/jogs 3-4x a week) while using Ara? I'm lifting on my non-running days but training for a few half and full marathons at the same time.

(I know it seems counter-productive but I'm addicted to running...I just don't want to 'look' like a runner! LOL)

Could Ara magnify the immflamation in my knees, hips, and ankles?

Thanks.
 
Warthog13 said:
Jiigzz - thanks so much for putting this together!

Regarding the immflamation - what are the thoughts around doing extensive cardio (1-1.5 hr runs/jogs 3-4x a week) while using Ara? I'm lifting on my non-running days but training for a few half and full marathons at the same time.

(I know it seems counter-productive but I'm addicted to running...I just don't want to 'look' like a runner! LOL)

Could Ara magnify the immflamation in my knees, hips, and ankles?

Thanks.
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Potentially it could, but joint pain on ArA is highly individual and easily counteracted with ingredients such as boswellia.
 
Warthog13 said:
Could Ara magnify the immflamation in my knees, hips, and ankles?

Thanks.
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I have pretty bad patellar tendonitis in both knees, and the ankle I broke a year and a half ago acts up sometimes, but ArA didn't aggravate any of those problems.
 
SwolenONE said:
Potentially it could, but joint pain on ArA is highly individual and easily counteracted with ingredients such as boswellia.
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Thanks SW1 and mountainman. I've read so many positive things about ArA but am concerned about the immflamation and the DOMS. I appreciate the feedback and the boswellia suggestion!
 
Warthog13 said:
Thanks SW1 and mountainman. I've read so many positive things about ArA but am concerned about the immflamation and the DOMS. I appreciate the feedback and the boswellia suggestion!
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Remember that the goal is localized inflammation, not systemic
 
Warthog13 said:
Jiigzz - thanks so much for putting this together!

Regarding the immflamation - what are the thoughts around doing extensive cardio (1-1.5 hr runs/jogs 3-4x a week) while using Ara? I'm lifting on my non-running days but training for a few half and full marathons at the same time.

(I know it seems counter-productive but I'm addicted to running...I just don't want to 'look' like a runner! LOL)

Could Ara magnify the immflamation in my knees, hips, and ankles?

Thanks.
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No problem :D

Ara has the potential definitely to amplify inflammation, however seems to be highly individual. I use 2g per day and have not noticed any increase in soreness whilst others do. On a side note, you can continue use of Cissus or Fish oil but just ensure you dose them as far away from Ara as possible.
 
aaronuconn said:
Remember that the goal is localized inflammation, not systemic
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Absolutely, as the Baylor study on X-Factor showed, systemic inflammation markers were actually lowered.
 
SwolenONE said:
Absolutely, as the Baylor study on X-Factor showed, systemic inflammation markers were actually lowered.
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Please stop pushing these falseties....

IL-6 in EXERCISING POPULATIONS is actually one of the key mediators of reduced inflammation. It's part of what allows you to tax your muscles without causing too much damage and inflammation. By lowering IL-6, muscle and tendons are more prone to damage and DOMS.
 
hi again…well, actually on my 5th week of my ARA run, and has been a nice ride…but….I might need some endodontics work on a tooth, so my Q is, should I discontinue ARA? if so, how long before?

thanks =(
 
Jiigzz said:
Q6: What stacks well with Ara?

Almost anything! You name it, it probably work well with Ara. There are a few exceptions that will be listed further down, however.

Some stacking examples (excludes carnitine and GMS recommendations):

-Ara + Anabeta Elite
-Ara + DAA + Divanil
-Ara + Alphamax
-Ara + Bioforge
-Ara + Forskolin 95 + Endosurge turbo
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I have two more questions:

- This recommends dosing Ara only on workout days - what about carnitine (or aspirin) and GMA? Is it recommended to continue those on non-workout days or take those only with Ara

- I'm doing the Forskolin 95 + Endosurge Turbo stack - I'm guessing I take those as directed, right? Not just only on workout days?

Thanks again!
 
Warthog13 said:
I have two more questions:

- This recommends dosing Ara only on workout days - what about carnitine (or aspirin) and GMA? Is it recommended to continue those on non-workout days or take those only with Ara

- I'm doing the Forskolin 95 + Endosurge Turbo stack - I'm guessing I take those as directed, right? Not just only on workout days?

Thanks again!
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Yes, the carn/aspirin & gms on workout days only as well...and the Forsk95 and Endo every day as directed, giddy up!
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Please stop pushing these falseties....

IL-6 in EXERCISING POPULATIONS is actually one of the key mediators of reduced inflammation. It's part of what allows you to tax your muscles without causing too much damage and inflammation. By lowering IL-6, muscle and tendons are more prone to damage and DOMS.
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Cooper,

You are way oversimplifying things, and appear confused about the Baylor result.

As with ARA, IL-6 is a very complex biochemical, with many different activities depending on the context and co-acting biomolecules. Training does cause IL-6 to increase, where it plays a role in the acute anabolic response. These elevations can be very sharp, but are also short lived. On the other hand, IL-6 is still a primary actor in the inflammatory process. Chronic elevations at rest remain associated with obesity, cancer, and other diseases.

The Baylor study measured non-acute (resting) IL-6 levels, with blood drawn 48 hours post training and after a 12 hour fast. While we need more research before drawing conclusions, this does suggest a potential benefit with regard to systemic inflammation. It is also normal for people to notice lower resting IL-6 with regular exercise, so this may reflect ARA enhancing training adaptations.

The Baylor study does not speak to the acute IL-6 response to exercise. Please get your facts straight next time before calling us liars.
 
w_llewellyn said:
Cooper,

You are way oversimplifying things, and appear confused about the Baylor result.

As with ARA, IL-6 is a very complex biochemical, with many different activities depending on the context and co-acting biomolecules. Training does cause IL-6 to increase, where it plays a role in the acute anabolic response. These elevations can be very sharp, but are also short lived. On the other hand, IL-6 is still a primary actor in the inflammatory process. Chronic elevations at rest remain associated with obesity, cancer, and other diseases.

The Baylor study measured non-acute (resting) IL-6 levels, with blood drawn 48 hours post training and after a 12 hour fast. While we need more research before drawing conclusions, this does suggest a potential benefit with regard to systemic inflammation. It is also normal for people to notice lower resting IL-6 with regular exercise, so this may reflect ARA enhancing training adaptations.

The Baylor study does not speak to the acute IL-6 response to exercise. Please get your facts straight next time before calling us liars.
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Ok first, kindly get a reality check. I haven't called you a liar. I haven't even addressed you. I was talking to swollenone, who obviously didn't have a response and decided to pull you into the thread. That's not my fault.

Secondly, I am well aware of how complex paracrine factors are. Do you expect me to write a textbook so that the forum layman can understand it? I think not.

If you think supplementing arachidonic acid is lowering inflammation in your body, you're off your rocker. I'm not calling you a liar, because I genuinely believe you think it has this effect. But like you said, IL-6 is but one molecule and the baylor study is but one study. We know what ArA does in the body, and it's not attenuation of inflammation.
 
1kerry said:
hi again...well, actually on my 5th week of my ARA run, and has been a nice ride...but....I might need some endodontics work on a tooth, so my Q is, should I discontinue ARA? if so, how long before?

thanks =(
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No idea if is needed or not, but it may be wise to so recovery can occur as quickely as possible
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Ok first, kindly get a reality check. I haven't called you a liar. I haven't even addressed you. I was talking to swollenone, who obviously didn't have a response and decided to pull you into the thread. That's not my fault.

Secondly, I am well aware of how complex paracrine factors are. Do you expect me to write a textbook so that the forum layman can understand it? I think not.

If you think supplementing arachidonic acid is lowering inflammation in your body, you're off your rocker. I'm not calling you a liar, because I genuinely believe you think it has this effect. But like you said, IL-6 is but one molecule and the baylor study is but one study. We know what ArA does in the body, and it's not attenuation of inflammation.
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Calling me “off my rocker” is not a compelling scientific argument.

You don't need to write a textbook on this subject Coop (though I would certainly love to read it if you did). All you need to do in this case is present compelling data that contradicts the Baylor study. That would start with any study on exercising human subjects that shows ARA supplementation to either A) increase resting IL-6 levels or B) increase systemic inflammation even though resting IL-6 is reduced.

That's how it works in science. You counter data with data, not personal insults or assertions about how much you know.
 
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w_llewellyn said:
Calling me “off my rocker” is not a compelling scientific argument. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]You don't need to write a textbook on this subject Coop (though I would certainly love to read it if you did). All you need to do in this case is present compelling data that contradicts the Baylor study. That would start with any study on exercising human subjects that shows ARA supplementation to either A) increase resting IL-6 levels or B) increase systemic inflammation even though resting IL-6 is reduced.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]That's how it works in science. You counter data with data, not personal insults or assertions about how much you know.
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[/FONT]
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[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Lol really? How many studies have you conducted or authored? Funding them doesn't count my friend.[/FONT]
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[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]You can click on my post history whenever you'd like. I have thousands of posts educating this board with the science and studies you hold in such high regard. Conversely, this is your second post here in ages and it revolves around pushing the same product that you've pushed for years. Don't lecture me about how science works, please.

[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]You are intelligent and have the capacity to educate others too...on topics besides fatty acids and underground steroids. So before giving me the speech about how to back up scientific arguments, it's time to start making your own on topics where no vested interest is laden. That, then, would be the mark of a real scientific approach, not what "science" has become in the money-driven modern era[/FONT]
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[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]No insults here, but I don't rosy up how I perceive a conversation. Just truth[/FONT]
 
mr.cooper69 said:


Lol really? How many studies have you conducted or authored? Funding them doesn't count my friend.


You can click on my post history whenever you'd like. I have thousands of posts educating this board with the science and studies you hold in such high regard. Conversely, this is your second post here in ages and it revolves around pushing the same product that you've pushed for years. Don't lecture me about how science works, please.

You are intelligent and have the capacity to educate others too...on topics besides fatty acids and underground steroids. So before giving me the speech about how to back up scientific arguments, it's time to start making your own on topics where no vested interest is laden. That, then, would be the mark of a real scientific approach, not what "science" has become in the money-driven modern era


No insults here, but I don't rosy up how I perceive a conversation. Just truth
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If I can paraphrase. You've got nothing, but I need to prove myself worthy before discussing this topic with you any further. You're a riot Cooper!
 
Hey guys, just a couple of question here. From what i know ArA should be taken on an empty stomach, since if i finished my preworkout meal 8am that inclue a cup of rice and 6eggwhite and 2yollks, i begin my dosage 11am taking ArA with GMS, my Source of LCLT i rely it on anavitr after breakfast half serving that would be 1gram. I know i didnt dose it to my preworkout with ArA does ot matter? Or should i take it solo? And also for my understanding i should avoid insulin taking ArA due to it will shuttle to adipost tissue rather than muscle tissue? Since that i was concern i always take my preworkout product like pre jym or sometimes amino iv. Since pre jym has a 4grams carbs, does it diminish the effext of Ara? If it does i have to take amino iv. What about postworkout if its good to go to take some sort of karbolyn and amino? Does it not contradict with ArA? Any help guys? Really appreciate it. Cooper and mr lewelyn hope u two fix your issue, not to have some wat zone around here, you guys make people doubtful, hope this thread will help and educate each other.
 
jeff32 said:
Hey guys, just a couple of question here. From what i know ArA should be taken on an empty stomach, since if i finished my preworkout meal 8am that inclue a cup of rice and 6eggwhite and 2yollks, i begin my dosage 11am taking ArA with GMS, my Source of LCLT i rely it on anavitr after breakfast half serving that would be 1gram. I know i didnt dose it to my preworkout with ArA does ot matter? Or should i take it solo? And also for my understanding i should avoid insulin taking ArA due to it will shuttle to adipost tissue rather than muscle tissue? Since that i was concern i always take my preworkout product like pre jym or sometimes amino iv. Since pre jym has a 4grams carbs, does it diminish the effext of Ara? If it does i have to take amino iv. What about postworkout if its good to go to take some sort of karbolyn and amino? Does it not contradict with ArA? Any help guys? Really appreciate it. Cooper and mr lewelyn hope u two fix your issue, not to have some wat zone around here, you guys make people doubtful, hope this thread will help and educate each other.
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4g of carbs is literally nothing. It won't hinder Ara. Amino IV might though as it is insulinogenic.

You can have anything intra or post as the Ara will be in the muscle by then.
 
jeff32 said:
Hey guys, just a couple of question here. From what i know ArA should be taken on an empty stomach, since if i finished my preworkout meal 8am that inclue a cup of rice and 6eggwhite and 2yollks, i begin my dosage 11am taking ArA with GMS, my Source of LCLT i rely it on anavitr after breakfast half serving that would be 1gram. I know i didnt dose it to my preworkout with ArA does ot matter? Or should i take it solo? And also for my understanding i should avoid insulin taking ArA due to it will shuttle to adipost tissue rather than muscle tissue? Since that i was concern i always take my preworkout product like pre jym or sometimes amino iv. Since pre jym has a 4grams carbs, does it diminish the effext of Ara? If it does i have to take amino iv. What about postworkout if its good to go to take some sort of karbolyn and amino? Does it not contradict with ArA? Any help guys? Really appreciate it. Cooper and mr lewelyn hope u two fix your issue, not to have some wat zone around here, you guys make people doubtful, hope this thread will help and educate each other.
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Sorry for the derail, I won't direct any further comments at him. We can settle it over PMs. As for your protocol, it should be perfectly fine. Remember, exercise elevates epinephrine which reduces the insulin response, so unless you are consuming a glycemic load capable of over-riding this feedback (i.e. a full mixed meal), you should be fine
 
Thanks for the response guys, coops since i was having a normal meal (pre workout meal) ended in around 8am. Around 10pm to 10:30pm il take ArA am i dosing it perfeectly? Or is it be wiser to take it fasted? On nonworklut days, should i still take GMS along with ArA?
 
jeff32 said:
Thanks for the response guys, coops since i was having a normal meal (pre workout meal) ended in around 8am. Around 10pm to 10:30pm il take ArA am i dosing it perfeectly? Or is it be wiser to take it fasted? On nonworklut days, should i still take GMS along with ArA?
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Your timing is perfect. GMS should be taken whenever you're taking it on an empty stomach
 
lol @ last page. One of them is absolutely correct and the other is grasping at straws (it doesn't appear like he knows much about physiology either).
 
1kerry said:
so aminoIV is a NO NO before workout and after ARA???
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Coop states that it would be fine so you are good to go with Amino IV.
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Jiigzz hoping you can just check my dosing protocol, never have taken X-Gels, but gonna during my PCT before I cut. I train fasted, and take 2 scoops Xtend intra workout AnaBeta Elite & X-Gels: 45 mins prior 30 mins prior: pre workout supp about 5-10 mins in the beginning of my workout, start sipping Xtend post i'd have the other two caps of ABE, no benefit in a post workout dose of X-Gels right? always wondered this...
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This is perfect. The only suggestion is to add some carnitine and possibly GMS to ara/ABE dose. See the op for reasoning.

And no use for the pwo dose.
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Ok thanks. I'm slowly reintroducing ALCAR back into my diet. Made my sweat smell like fish last time but might just go for LCLT.

Or 1g LCLT pre wo then 1g AlCAR with carb meals?

GMS is a no go unfortunately put me on the toilet mid workout so many times. Tried it for a month anywhere from 1-3g.

Will any bulk powder of LCLT do? And recommendations?

Also I usually have 1g of Agmatine with 3g Creatine and 3g Beta Alanine intra as well or the AGMA pre if that makes a difference
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Any brand of LCLT (or any Carnitine dosed with the ArA) should be fine, I usually just use a pre-workout with some or add in SNS or Nutrakey ALCAR. No issues with those other additions and Agmatine should actually work quite well in conjunction with the ArA.
 
ARA has any impact on hair loss?? had my first haircut since adding daa, abe and xgels to my stack, and see less hair =(
 
NP has a deal with free Peak Beta+ (includes LCLT) with your ArA

Invalid Link Removed
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Jiigzz hoping you can just check my dosing protocol, never have taken X-Gels, but gonna during my PCT before I cut. I train fasted, and take 2 scoops Xtend intra workout

AnaBeta Elite & X-Gels: 45 mins prior
30 mins prior: pre workout supp
about 5-10 mins in the beginning of my workout, start sipping Xtend

post i'd have the other two caps of ABE, no benefit in a post workout dose of X-Gels right? always wondered this...
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Sorry my man; my phone didn't pick up the mention.

The best environments for Xgels are 45 minutes pre and intra as exercise will ensure the Ara gets shuttled to skeletal muscle. It facilitates that process. I believe Neuron covers this in his thread on BB.com in more detail as well.
 
1kerry said:
ARA has any impact on hair loss?? had my first haircut since adding daa, abe and xgels to my stack, and see less hair =(
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I'm a little confused TBH. Ara appears to promote hair growth via PGf2a and PGE2 whilst suppressing it through PD2; i'm not sure which one is more dominant so hopefully someone can chime in here with added info.

You can upregulate the PGf2a receptors through the use of a COX1 inhibitor (low dose aspirin).

Edit: Ok, so this is my understanding and I am happy for correction. Ara supplementation converts to PGh2 via Cox1 and Cox2; we can limit Cox1 via a carnitine salt and a low dose aspirin (we do NOT want to inhibit cox2) .

From PGH2 (the parent prostagladin) we can get either PGe2 or PGD2

PGD2 can convert to PGF2a which itself can be upregulated via cox1 inhibition.

I would think that, based on this, hair loss isn't a likely problem but it MAY be an issue if you have MPB.
 
1kerry said:
ARA has any impact on hair loss?? had my first haircut since adding daa, abe and xgels to my stack, and see less hair =(
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The final common pathway in hair loss is a specific prostaglandin that's a metabolite of ArA, but I've never really seen reports of hair loss with ArA, probably because there is minimal accumulation in the scalp. Same reason you don't see many acne reports
 
First: Jigzz—fantastic post. I hand't looked twice at ArA (come one--peanut oil?!), but I'm sold. Just pulled the trigger on a bunch of X-Factor, GMS, and ALCAR. Once question occurred to me through: If ArA unusually rough on the liver? I've never messed with any AAS stuff, let alone the 17-aa'd liver-grinders, but I take lamotrigine, which raises my liver enzymes just a bit. Still normal, but on the high side of normal. If AraA is M1T is disguise (results kind of make it sound like that!), I should probably stay away, if there is no plausible route for stressful hepatic metabolism—equivalent only to creatine or something—I'm in the clear, and it if lies somewhere in-between, I'm probably OK, though I'll get my liver panels run every week. I may be the only guy on here with the lamotrigine issue per se, but I could imagine that other readers might also be worried about liver health for various other reasons. Thank you again for your post, and apologies if this is an obvious question. (I *did* search, but I don't want to be the one jackass on an otherwise awesome great thread).

P.S. I have some milk thistle and NAC on hand, and they're easy to get cheaply. If appropriate, I'm happy to take one or more of those.

--ACJ
 
adamcj1 said:
First: Jigzz—fantastic post. I hand't looked twice at ArA (come one--peanut oil?!), but I'm sold. Just pulled the trigger on a bunch of X-Factor, GMS, and ALCAR. Once question occurred to me through: If ArA unusually rough on the liver? I've never messed with any AAS stuff, let alone the 17-aa'd liver-grinders, but I take lamotrigine, which raises my liver enzymes just a bit. Still normal, but on the high side of normal. If AraA is M1T is disguise (results kind of make it sound like that!), I should probably stay away, if there is no plausible route for stressful hepatic metabolism—equivalent only to creatine or something—I'm in the clear, and it if lies somewhere in-between, I'm probably OK, though I'll get my liver panels run every week. I may be the only guy on here with the lamotrigine issue per se, but I could imagine that other readers might also be worried about liver health for various other reasons. Thank you again for your post, and apologies if this is an obvious question. (I *did* search, but I don't want to be the one jackass on an otherwise awesome great thread).P.S. I have some milk thistle and NAC on hand, and they're easy to get cheaply. If appropriate, I'm happy to take one or more of those. --ACJ
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ArA is not an AAS/PH. Are you weary of Omega 6's driving hepatotoxicity?
 
Jiigzz said:
I'm a little confused TBH. Ara appears to promote hair growth via PGf2a and PGE2 whilst suppressing it through PD2; i'm not sure which one is more dominant so hopefully someone can chime in here with added info.

You can upregulate the PGf2a receptors through the use of a COX1 inhibitor (low dose aspirin).

Edit: Ok, so this is my understanding and I am happy for correction. Ara supplementation converts to PGh2 via Cox1 and Cox2; we can limit Cox1 via a carnitine salt and a low dose aspirin (we do NOT want to inhibit cox2) .

From PGH2 (the parent prostagladin) we can get either PGe2 or PGD2

PGD2 can convert to PGF2a which itself can be upregulated via cox1 inhibition.

I would think that, based on this, hair loss isn't a likely problem but it MAY be an issue if you have MPB.
Click to expand...

thanks for your detailed answer and your time!
 
adamcj1 said:
First: Jigzz—fantastic post. I hand't looked twice at ArA (come one--peanut oil?!), but I'm sold. Just pulled the trigger on a bunch of X-Factor, GMS, and ALCAR. Once question occurred to me through: If ArA unusually rough on the liver? I've never messed with any AAS stuff, let alone the 17-aa'd liver-grinders, but I take lamotrigine, which raises my liver enzymes just a bit. Still normal, but on the high side of normal. If AraA is M1T is disguise (results kind of make it sound like that!), I should probably stay away, if there is no plausible route for stressful hepatic metabolism—equivalent only to creatine or something—I'm in the clear, and it if lies somewhere in-between, I'm probably OK, though I'll get my liver panels run every week. I may be the only guy on here with the lamotrigine issue per se, but I could imagine that other readers might also be worried about liver health for various other reasons. Thank you again for your post, and apologies if this is an obvious question. (I *did* search, but I don't want to be the one jackass on an otherwise awesome great thread).

P.S. I have some milk thistle and NAC on hand, and they're easy to get cheaply. If appropriate, I'm happy to take one or more of those.

--ACJ
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We would never disguise a PH as any ingredient, so your safe; we only put in the product what is stated on the label so what you see is what you get. So no need for liver supplements :D
 
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