New Formulas of ABE/Erase Pro better or worse?

mrmello said:
New formula is total garbage. Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione has probably been baned and they replaced it with an herb called Uncaria Tomentosa (Bark) Extract, Pine Bark Extract (containing Abieta-8,11,13-trien-18-oic acid) baiscally its a resin acid present in pulp and paper mill effluent. studies on it have found it helps with things ranging from diabetis in mice to topical agente on genital herpes.

The closest to an estrogen blocker this thing got was in a study done in raibow trouts. LOL not joking: Invalid Link Removed

So my take its garbage. If you were looking for an effective estrogen blocker I´d recomed Iron Labs E-Control - which was the increaditable and proven 6-OXO. But the FDA got the first formula and now they have E-CONTROL 2.0. The ingredient in it is Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione LOL which is a much, much, much yet again less potent aromataze inhibitor than 6-OXO.
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If that's the best study you found, that is your fault, not ours lol. You cannot blame a company for using an ingredient that your research skills couldn't properly explain.

Thankfully, I broke this down already:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pes/239618-abieta-8-11-a.html
 
mr.cooper69 said:
If that's the best study you found, that is your fault, not ours lol. You cannot blame a company for using an ingredient that your research skills couldn't properly explain.

Thankfully, I broke this down already:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pes/239618-abieta-8-11-a.html
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Dude you think you know stuff but you don´t. In the same link you posted you will see that the ONLY study in VIVO for your beloved herb or arimistane as they market, regarding anti-aromataze, was done using FISH. ''In vivo: In fish, DHAA has an anti-estrogenic effect that is actually unfavorable because this obviously disrupts female reproduction in fish, which means less offspring, which means less fish in the food supply. This occurs at the level of the estrogen receptor, adding a second layer to the previously mentioned MOA of aromatase inhibition. Whether or not this carries over to healthy human male, non-carcinoma cells is unknown.'' there it is right below the graph.
 
mrmello said:
Dude you think you know stuff but you don´t. In the same link you posted you will see that the ONLY study in VIVO for your beloved herb or arimistane as they market, regarding anti-aromataze, was done using FISH. ''In vivo: In fish, DHAA has an anti-estrogenic effect that is actually unfavorable because this obviously disrupts female reproduction in fish, which means less offspring, which means less fish in the food supply. This occurs at the level of the estrogen receptor, adding a second layer to the previously mentioned MOA of aromatase inhibition. Whether or not this carries over to healthy human male, non-carcinoma cells is unknown.'' there it is right below the graph.
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Far be it from me to defend Mr. Cooper but he definitely has an abundant knowledge in the realm of sciency stuff. Surely the highest touted member on this board as well as others. So he actually does know his stuff.

Another thing you must take into consideration is that a great many supplement ingredients on the market have zero human research backed studies. Companies work with what they can and then alpha testing comes into play.

Sooooooooo this comes back to my personal approach....try it and then come to a conclusion.
 
mrmello said:
Dude you think you know stuff but you don´t. In the same link you posted you will see that the ONLY study in VIVO for your beloved herb or arimistane as they market, regarding anti-aromataze, was done using FISH. ''In vivo: In fish, DHAA has an anti-estrogenic effect that is actually unfavorable because this obviously disrupts female reproduction in fish, which means less offspring, which means less fish in the food supply. This occurs at the level of the estrogen receptor, adding a second layer to the previously mentioned MOA of aromatase inhibition. Whether or not this carries over to healthy human male, non-carcinoma cells is unknown.'' there it is right below the graph.
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Why are you still quoting that study? We're not talking about that. We're talking about the studies I posted in the writeup.

Better yet, why am I still quoting you? Your agenda is clear based on the fact that you trashed Erase in a ton of threads that weren't even talking about Erase. I hope you're compensated well :)
 
Montego1 said:
Far be it from me to defend Mr. Cooper but he definitely has an abundant knowledge in the realm of sciency stuff. Surely the highest touted member on this board as well as others. So he actually does know his stuff.

Another thing you must take into consideration is that a great many supplement ingredients on the market have zero human research backed studies. Companies work with what they can and then alpha testing comes into play.

Sooooooooo this comes back to my personal approach....try it and then come to a conclusion.
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Thanks Montego, thanks for keeping an open mind as well.
 
Montego1 said:
Far be it from me to defend Mr. Cooper but he definitely has an abundant knowledge in the realm of sciency stuff. Surely the highest touted member on this board as well as others. So he actually does know his stuff.

Another thing you must take into consideration is that a great many supplement ingredients on the market have zero human research backed studies. Companies work with what they can and then alpha testing comes into play.

Sooooooooo this comes back to my personal approach....try it and then come to a conclusion.
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I hear you. I don´t doubt Mr Cooper actually knows he´s stuff, based on his reps and ammount of posts. It just irritates me when someone is arrogant trying to make a point by bashing what other people say like he owns the truth. In that regard, he posted a study from the SAME place i did. NCBI - but was quick to say I look things up ''on google'' and I have poor research skills.. etc. All it was necessary was something like, ''you knwo theres also this study on it''.

granted most companies use compounds without research in vivo, but just as many make a big fuss out of herbs like VERSA-1 and Oxy elite aegeli that ****ed up people liver´s. So we must be skeptial when it comes to a herb that only showed a specific marketed ability in a test tube.

Plus I have taken two bottles of the ERASE PRO and two of ERASE myself. (old formula with Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione) and it wasn´t all that.
 
mrmello said:
I hear you. I don´t doubt Mr Cooper actually knows he´s stuff, based on his reps and ammount of posts. It just irritates me when someone is arrogant trying to make a point by bashing what other people say like he owns the truth. In that regard, he posted a study from the SAME place i did. NCBI - but was quick to say I look things up ''on google'' and I have poor research skills.. etc. All it was necessary was something like, ''you knwo theres also this study on it''.

granted most companies use compounds without research in vivo, but just as many make a big fuss out of herbs like VERSA-1 and Oxy elite aegeli that ****ed up people liver´s. So we must be skeptial when it comes to a herb that only showed a specific marketed ability in a test tube.

Plus I have taken two bottles of the ERASE PRO and two of ERASE myself. (old formula with Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione) and it wasn´t all that.
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Man I had the opposite experience. I just tried the original Erase Pro for the first time and am heartbroken that they are not available anymore. I couldn't imagine anything having a stronger effect on body comp. No strength gains, but I was not eating very well at all and managed to drop 2kg, vascularity skyrocketed, I dried out, and felt the same or better than I did before taking it (differences in mood/libido could have easily been seasonal as the sun has been out recently and it's getting warm). Everyone's different though and I know lots of ppl got joint issues...still, sucks to find out that something works so well AFTER it stops being available haha. I have a few bottles left but I am on the prowl on ebay and google looking for anyone trying to clear out their old stock.
 
mrmello said:
I hear you. I don´t doubt Mr Cooper actually knows he´s stuff, based on his reps and ammount of posts. It just irritates me when someone is arrogant trying to make a point by bashing what other people say like he owns the truth. In that regard, he posted a study from the SAME place i did. NCBI - but was quick to say I look things up ''on google'' and I have poor research skills.. etc. All it was necessary was something like, ''you knwo theres also this study on it''.
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You're irritated because I said you have poor research skills?

Would you like to know why I'm irritated? Here you go:

I spent innumerable hours researching top AI candidates.
Did full database and textbook searches of online and physical libraries.
Had our owner Josh spend lots of money and time sourcing possible candidates.
Spent more money and time testing the compounds and paying for bloodwork.
Selected the best one and incorporated it into a product.
Redid the product writeup.
Posted full disclosure, full transparency writeups, totally objective, of the compounds used in the product.

And then log on and find that one guy has trashed the product in several threads out of the blue, citing a single study and writing off all the time, energy, money, research, and testing that went into the new Erase.

That's why I'm irritated.
 
tyrub42 said:
Man I had the opposite experience. I just tried the original Erase Pro for the first time and am heartbroken that they are not available anymore. I couldn't imagine anything having a stronger effect on body comp. No strength gains, but I was not eating very well at all and managed to drop 2kg, vascularity skyrocketed, I dried out, and felt the same or better than I did before taking it (differences in mood/libido could have easily been seasonal as the sun has been out recently and it's getting warm). Everyone's different though and I know lots of ppl got joint issues...still, sucks to find out that something works so well AFTER it stops being available haha. I have a few bottles left but I am on the prowl on ebay and google looking for anyone trying to clear out their old stock.
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I think Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione was banned? Most products that had it changed formula. But hey if you like it that much theres a product that still has it. The first version of it had the famous 6-OXO my personal favorite -along with formastane -nothing dries me better than these two. iron mag Labs E_CONTROL RX first formula had 6-OXO. They discontinued it and now have E-CONTROL 2.0 RX - wich has Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione as the main ingredient along with some other stuff. So you can check that out.
 
Was Cooper's intelligence just insulted based on post count and reps?

And by a guy with 55 posts and absolutely no contribution to these forums other than trying to belittle these products blindly?

I don't understand people.

To anyone who would like to read unbiased actual feedback on the Epro I have a thread for just that.
Based on actual results and experiences; not agenda-based drivel.
 
mrmello said:
I think Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione was banned? Most products that had it changed formula. But hey if you like it that much theres a product that still has it. The first version of it had the famous 6-OXO my personal favorite -along with formastane -nothing dries me better than these two. iron mag Labs E_CONTROL RX first formula had 6-OXO. They discontinued it and now have E-CONTROL 2.0 RX - wich has Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione as the main ingredient along with some other stuff. So you can check that out.
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Honestly I don't think there was ever an issue with arimistane (I'm using the common name but same compound) being banned. Lots of products still use it and a new one (Alphamax) has it and is getting lots of attention for having an amazing formula for the price. I am pretty sure PES changed the formula to combat the joint side effect of arimistane and to stay innovative since arimistane had gotten into so many products. BUT I think it was the combination of arimistane and the BD extract in Erase Pro that did it for me, so unless Analyzed Supplements decides to sell it as a solo product, I will be on the lookout for the old formula. I mean, I know it's possible I would like the new formula also, but I am in such disbelief about how well the original worked, that unless there is an incredible sale on the new formula, I will be searching for the old one.
 
mrmello said:
I think Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione was banned? Most products that had it changed formula. But hey if you like it that much theres a product that still has it. The first version of it had the famous 6-OXO my personal favorite -along with formastane -nothing dries me better than these two. iron mag Labs E_CONTROL RX first formula had 6-OXO. They discontinued it and now have E-CONTROL 2.0 RX - wich has Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione as the main ingredient along with some other stuff. So you can check that out.
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Wow, you're incredibly transparent.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
You're irritated because I said you have poor research skills?

Would you like to know why I'm irritated? Here you go:

I spent innumerable hours researching top AI candidates.
Did full database and textbook searches of online and physical libraries.
Had our owner Josh spend lots of money and time sourcing possible candidates.
Spent more money and time testing the compounds and paying for bloodwork.
Selected the best one and incorporated it into a product.
Redid the product writeup.
Posted full disclosure, full transparency writeups, totally objective, of the compounds used in the product.

And then log on and find that one guy has trashed the product in several threads out of the blue, citing a single study and writing off all the time, energy, money, research, and testing that went into the new Erase.

That's why I'm irritated.
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OH dude! Now I understand why you said those things. Let me just explain:

1- I now can see how irritating can be when you spend a lot of time and energy researching things and there comes a guy that just googles it for the first time and posts the first or second study he has read on it, when you read dozens, and has a much more comprehensive view of it.

2- I did try the old formula and liked it, didn´t love it but its an ok product so I didn´t bash the old one.

3- I hope you can undesrtad that as a costumer and not someone thats actualyl formultaing this product but as someone who is going may potentially consume it, we can be skepitc of formula changes and marketing hypes. As you know the industry is packed with that now days, pushing compounds that most have never heard before such as the aegelic - spelled right? one that was found hepatoxic.

4- Im sorry man, truthfully I wasn´t trying to just ''bash it'' more like playing devils advocate.
 
I always welcome skepticism...it's what makes a smart consumer. I think I may have misinterpreted your intentions, but if you were playing devil's advocate, that's totally fine in my books. My apologies for insulting your research skills.

I think with PES, you have to realize we don't just throw together products like other companies may do. Look at Erase...and look how many people followed our lead with the original. Anabeta? Large companies like gaspari started using anacyclus. Alphamine? Suddenly powdered fat burners popped up everywhere.

We're trendsetters here, and there is no way in hell we would reformulate one of our most popular products if we didn't think it would be better than before. This upgrade had been planned for almost a year...same with Anabeta's upgrade. With many companies following our lead, we need to stay one step ahead of the game.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I always welcome skepticism...it's what makes a smart consumer. I think I may have misinterpreted your intentions, but if you were playing devil's advocate, that's totally fine in my books. My apologies for insulting your research skills. I think with PES, you have to realize we don't just throw together products like other companies may do. Look at Erase...and look how many people followed our lead with the original. Anabeta? Large companies like gaspari started using anacyclus. Alphamine? Suddenly powdered fat burners popped up everywhere. We're trendsetters here, and there is no way in hell we would reformulate one of our most popular products if we didn't think it would be better than before. This upgrade had been planned for almost a year...same with Anabeta's upgrade. With many companies following our lead, we need to stay one step ahead of the game.
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All kinds of win in this post. :)
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I always welcome skepticism...it's what makes a smart consumer. I think I may have misinterpreted your intentions, but if you were playing devil's advocate, that's totally fine in my books. My apologies for insulting your research skills.

I think with PES, you have to realize we don't just throw together products like other companies may do. Look at Erase...and look how many people followed our lead with the original. Anabeta? Large companies like gaspari started using anacyclus. Alphamine? Suddenly powdered fat burners popped up everywhere.

We're trendsetters here, and there is no way in hell we would reformulate one of our most popular products if we didn't think it would be better than before. This upgrade had been planned for almost a year...same with Anabeta's upgrade. With many companies following our lead, we need to stay one step ahead of the game.
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Yup, that was all, just skepticism. I dont have ''srecret agendas'' like some claimed.. Im not a rep from any company and def don´t get paid to bash products like others calimed it as well. And wasn´t insulting your inteligence either. In fact, I just read your name ''Mr. Cooper'' it wasn´t untill a few more posts that I realized each user has ''rep power'' and ''number of posts.'' along with name.... and thats when I saw almost 10 thousand posts under your belt. LOL felt really stupid. I didnt even noticed you were from PES yourself. Thats when everything you said made sense to me. :08:

Just adding I do love alphamine bought it right when it lauched and was one of the fist brazilians to have for sure.
 
mrmello said:
Yup, that was all, just skepticism. I dont have ''srecret agendas'' like some claimed.. Im not a rep from any company and def don´t get paid to bash products like others calimed it as well. And wasn´t insulting your inteligence either. In fact, I just read your name ''Mr. Cooper'' it wasn´t untill a few more posts that I realized each user has ''rep power'' and ''number of posts.'' along with name.... and thats when I saw almost 10 thousand posts under your belt. LOL felt really stupid. I didnt even noticed you were from PES yourself. Thats when everything you said made sense to me. :08: Just adding I do love alphamine bought it right when it lauched and was one of the fist brazilians to have for sure.
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Then perhaps you shouldn't have kept pushing the Iron Mag product like as if it's one of the last ones standing with arimistane ;) There's still plenty of arimistane products on the market even by relatively mainstream companies like MAN and AppNut. Then there's the numerous other companies that uses the ingredient at good doses.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I always welcome skepticism...it's what makes a smart consumer. I think I may have misinterpreted your intentions, but if you were playing devil's advocate, that's totally fine in my books. My apologies for insulting your research skills.

I think with PES, you have to realize we don't just throw together products like other companies may do. Look at Erase...and look how many people followed our lead with the original. Anabeta? Large companies like gaspari started using anacyclus. Alphamine? Suddenly powdered fat burners popped up everywhere.

We're trendsetters here, and there is no way in hell we would reformulate one of our most popular products if we didn't think it would be better than before. This upgrade had been planned for almost a year...same with Anabeta's upgrade. With many companies following our lead, we need to stay one step ahead of the game.
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I noticed also today when "googling" around the interwebz that ALRI also now makes a product with it. The difference is that I trust PES because they were the first to release it, and I'm sure the PES extract is much much much better than the competitors. I've never tried other companies anacylus and I don't plan to.
 
T-Bone said:
I noticed also today when "googling" around the interwebz that ALRI also now makes a product with it. The difference is that I trust PES because they were the first to release it, and I'm sure the PES extract is much much much better than the competitors. I've never tried other companies anacylus and I don't plan to.
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Thanks for the support Tbone
 
It is very flattering when big companies copy us. Keep in mind we were tiny and only had three products when we first launched AnaBeta. :)
 
bdcc said:
It is very flattering when big companies copy us. Keep in mind we were tiny and only had three products when we first launched AnaBeta. :)
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Yeah that's gotta be flattering.

I'm wondering what's to be of Analyzed Supplements.


They should release what's been zapped from PES.
 
Johnold said:
THAT is what made that version of ABE kick such ass. I don't care what anyone says, Androsten diol was the key.

From research I've gathered, I'm not even gonna point the obvious out.
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Not a big loss IMO. I'm more than happy with the change in ingredients as I feel the new version is more synergistic for the purpose of the product. Getting a comprehensive AI which most likely has a good cortisol modulating complex to stack with ABE would be a much better combo than the old ABE with cortisol modulation in the formula.
 
Johnold said:
THAT is what made that version of ABE kick such ass. I don't care what anyone says, Androsten diol was the key.

From research I've gathered, I'm not even gonna point the obvious out.
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Out of the three ingredients it was my least favourite.

OG AnaBeta gets great feedback for it's purpose and forskolin has several human studies on it. If I had to pick two ingredients to keep it would definitely be anacyclus pyrethrum and forskolin.
 
kissdadookie said:
Not a big loss IMO. I'm more than happy with the change in ingredients as I feel the new version is more synergistic for the purpose of the product. Getting a comprehensive AI which most likely has a good cortisol modulating complex to stack with ABE would be a much better combo than the old ABE with cortisol modulation in the formula.
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For you yeah. I got unbelievably strong off of it. I miss it.

Androsten...
 
kissdadookie said:
Not a big loss IMO. I'm more than happy with the change in ingredients as I feel the new version is more synergistic for the purpose of the product. Getting a comprehensive AI which most likely has a good cortisol modulating complex to stack with ABE would be a much better combo than the old ABE with cortisol modulation in the formula.
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Yeah I hear ya
 
Johnold said:
For you yeah. I got unbelievably strong off of it. I miss it. Androsten...
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Gonna go on a limb and say it was because of the diet and Anacyclus. Not the cortisol control.
 
kbayne said:
Gonna go on a limb and say it was because of the diet and Anacyclus. Not the cortisol control.
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I was cutting. Wasn't diet. Either it was what was in the old erase pro or 0ld ABE.

I remember going on a break from their old stuff then coming back to taking both EP & ABE and then having huge strength gains.

On an intermittent Fasting & Calorie Deficit diet.
 
Johnold said:
I was cutting. Wasn't diet. Either it was what was in the old erase pro or 0ld ABE.

I remember going on a break from their old stuff then coming back to taking both EP & ABE and then having huge strength gains.

On an intermittent Fasting & Calorie Deficit diet.
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If anything, it would be the Erase and not due to the cort control in that either, but most likely due to the anti-estrogen providing you with a more favourable T:E ratio.
 
PES makes good stuff tho. They were the intro company to supplementation of those types. So ill always have a spot for them.
 
Johnold said:
PES makes good stuff tho. They were the intro company to supplementation of those types. So ill always have a spot for them.
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Give the new ABE a go, it's phenomenal. This is coming from a person that has used 2 bottles of the old ABE and 2 bottles of the new ABE.
 
kissdadookie said:
If anything, it would be the Erase and not due to the cort control in that either, but most likely due to the anti-estrogen providing you with a more favourable T:E ratio.
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Possibly. That old stuff was amazing.

I remember playing with 6-45lb plates on each side of the leg press when I was on it. Now if I went past 3 to 4 45lb plates on each side I'd snap. That may not be a good impressive example but it was quite the accomplishment for me back then.
 
kissdadookie said:
Give the new ABE a go, it's phenomenal. This is coming from a person that has used 2 bottles of the old ABE and 2 bottles of the new ABE.
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I have. Just finished today.

Gave both EP & ABE a shot. Just finished both. Not too bad. The new ABE was more noticeable than whatever the new EP was doing. But I understand the new EP takes time to kick in. Yes, heard that before.
 
I didn't get strength gains from the new ABE. Or from either. But they weren't too bad. The old formulas they are NOT but they aren't bad.
 
Johnold said:
I have. Just finished today.

Gave both EP & ABE a shot. Just finished both. Not too bad. The new ABE was more noticeable than whatever the new EP was doing. But I understand the new EP takes time to kick in. Yes, heard that before.
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Yeah, I'm still undecided about the new Erase/Erase Pro. I still have 3 bottles of OG Erase left. Currently running a bottle of Novaldren-XT that had been in my stash for I don't know how long (ran 1 bottle of OG Erase and bridged into the Novaldren-XT). Only been running the Novaldren-XT for a week or so thus far. No taper off from the Erase so the Novaldren-XT is at least comparable to OG Erase (should be, they both contain 75 mg's of arimistane), so will see if the cortisol complext in Novaldren-XT has any notable benefits by the time I finish the bottle :D
 
kissdadookie said:
Yeah, I'm still undecided about the new Erase/Erase Pro. I still have 3 bottles of OG Erase left. Currently running a bottle of Novaldren-XT that had been in my stash for I don't know how long (ran 1 bottle of OG Erase and bridged into the Novaldren-XT). Only been running the Novaldren-XT for a week or so thus far. No taper off from the Erase so the Novaldren-XT is at least comparable to OG Erase (should be, they both contain 75 mg's of arimistane), so will see if the cortisol complext in Novaldren-XT has any notable benefits by the time I finish the bottle :D
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Now I know MAN and PES have their opinions on each other but NOLVADREN-XT works!

It kind of reminded of the old ERASE PRO.

A great deal stronger tho.
 
Eh...the cortisol control was my least favorite aspect of the old AnaBeta Elite. The new inclusions in the formula fit the objective for the project better now and it seems even more effective from a performance and body composition angle for me now.
 
Yeah it seems to work still. For me I'd have to take it for at least a MINIMUM of 12 weeks. Same with the new EP
 
I think it was a good idea to drop the Cort control, makes new ABE utilizable in more situations.

That and New ABE was noticeably more potent IMO.

If I want Cort control, which I will be in about another 6 weeks, I can a product meant for it.

Have some AMMO on hand so that's the plan. Have yet to try reduce XT, next time.
 
I was lucky enough to get the prxt when it was on sale for new years... 20 a bottle was a steal! Just ordered some dpol gonna give the new erase a run and see how it stacks up
 
Johnold said:
Yes, I gather that Reduce-XT is the ideal product for Cort control.
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Well, it's basically the same ingredient as the old ABE so if you really miss it, you can just add 1 pill per day to the new ABE and problem = solved :) . I loved old ABE; haven't tried the new one. If I end up shedding less fat without the cort control, I will just add 1 Reduce XT for my next bottle. I liked the old formula, but have been hearing great things about the new one. One buddy of mine here said the new one just made him fat, but he could just be blaming result of a bad diet on the ABE, so I will have to try and see for myself.
 
tyrub42 said:
Well, it's basically the same ingredient as the old ABE so if you really miss it, you can just add 1 pill per day to the new ABE and problem = solved :) . I loved old ABE; haven't tried the new one. If I end up shedding less fat without the cort control, I will just add 1 Reduce XT for my next bottle. I liked the old formula, but have been hearing great things about the new one. One buddy of mine here said the new one just made him fat, but he could just be blaming result of a bad diet on the ABE, so I will have to try and see for myself.
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Man.... You'll just have to try it yourself.

But if you're like me and miss the old one then im sure I know what you'll say.
 
Yeah dude, truth...just gonna have to try it and see. Luckily I do have a bunch of reduce on hand just in case.
 
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