Are whey isolates even necessary?

roblasane

roblasane

Well-known member
With the addition of all the amino acid products that people are using pre and intra workout is a fast absorbing protein even worth it.

Why not use a good blend. It's usually cheaper , better tasting and more satisfying. I could be wrong in this thought process.
 
I agree as well. Especially if they are utilizing the pre, and intra nutrition that window right after isn't as important. Whole food is best obviously BUT two points defending whey isolate. First for me I slam a whey ISO shake immediately upon rising (330 am). I cannot possibly eat food that early before a workout. This usually is my only shake unless I can't get food in within an hour after wo.
2nd whey ISO is soooooo helpful for people bulking when cals are at crazy highs. It's almost impossible to comfortably get in 5000 k without shakes.

Again I do understand your point bud
 
roblasane said:
With the addition of all the amino acid products that people are using pre and intra workout is a fast absorbing protein even worth it.

Why not use a good blend. It's usually cheaper , better tasting and more satisfying. I could be wrong in this thought process.
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There's a couple of reasons for using an isolate:

-If you're moderately lactose intolerant and want to minimize your lactose intake without having to consume more expensive non-dairy proteins.
-If for whatever reason you need to precisely minimize your carb/fat intake at a given time.
-For some reason you like the taste

Your general thoughts about isolates being unnecessary for most people are correct though.
 
De__eB said:
There's a couple of reasons for using an isolate:

-If you're moderately lactose intolerant and want to minimize your lactose intake without having to consume more expensive non-dairy proteins.
-If for whatever reason you need to precisely minimize your carb/fat intake at a given time.
-For some reason you like the taste

Your general thoughts about isolates being unnecessary for most people are correct though.
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Point 1: lactase pills
Point 2: chicken breast
Point 3: learn to cook lol

Just kidding.

Point 3 tho: if you have a sweet tooth

But I was just being an ass and showing counter arguments

I love whole foods

And as far as post workout isolate I feel bcaas work fine in that regard to increase mps similar to isolat
 
I've been going the 1% chocolate milk route for the past couple of weeks now. I did jump on the Oxy Protein for $20 last week but after that I might just stick with the Chocolate milk.
 
EBF Inc said:
Point 1: lactase pills
Point 2: chicken breast
Point 3: learn to cook lol

Just kidding.

Point 3 tho: if you have a sweet tooth

But I was just being an ass and showing counter arguments

I love whole foods

And as far as post workout isolate I feel bcaas work fine in that regard to increase mps similar to isolat
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That's just reasons people might use an isolate over other protein supplements, not a recommendation that people use WPI supplements :p
 
T-Bone said:
Protein supplements are unnecessary.
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Agreed.

They can be utilized effectively like as beaner stated; if you workout in the A.M and cannot eat a good meal being hitting the gym (and I hate training fasted), then slamming a protein shake can be useful.

Although I prefer chocolate milk.
 
ddfox said:
I've been going the 1% chocolate milk route for the past couple of weeks now. I did jump on the Oxy Protein for $20 last week but after that I might just stick with the Chocolate milk.
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Yes! I like my reinforced protein and vitamin Chocolate milk :D
 
Yes, if your budget allows, use isolates over blends

nothing wrong with a blends, thats usually what i use anyway but if i could i'd go with isolates...you want that quick spike in protein synthesis that isolate gives you with the higher level absorption rate

isotean vanilla dream has been the best tasting isolate i've had....some isolate protein tastes like colored water
 
Young Gotti said:
Yes, if your budget allows, use isolates over blends

nothing wrong with a blends, thats usually what i use anyway but if i could i'd go with isolates...you want that quick spike in protein synthesis that isolate gives you with the higher level absorption rate

isotean vanilla dream has been the best tasting isolate i've had....some isolate protein tastes like colored water
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I don't always drink protein shakes, but when I do, I want my amino acids to spike fast, and be largely used for glucogenic/insulinogenic purposes while quickly returning to baseline levels offering minimal extended benefit.
 
Supplements are.... supplements. Lol. If you manage to eat enough protein from food you dont need them.
 
De__eB said:
I don't always drink protein shakes, but when I do, I want my amino acids to spike fast, and be largely used for glucogenic/insulinogenic purposes while quickly returning to baseline levels offering minimal extended benefit.
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isn't the whole point to reach baseline again pretty quickly? this way if your eating a meal every 4 hours or so, your maximizing protein synthesis as often as possible throughout the day
 
Young Gotti said:
isn't the whole point to reach baseline again pretty quickly? this way if your eating a meal every 4 hours or so, your maximizing protein synthesis as often as possible throughout the day
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Thats what supplement companies want you to believe. Eat a scoop of the protein supplement every 4 hours just to keep protein synthesis and their business going. In fact, meal count doesnt matter as long as you meet the macros on a daily basis.
 
ecto84 said:
Thats what supplement companies want you to believe. Eat a scoop of the protein supplement every 4 hours just to keep protein synthesis and their business going. In fact, meal count doesnt matter as long as you meet the macros on a daily basis.
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i'm not talking about taking a scoop of protein every 4 hours...and my information isn't coming from supplement companies
 
Young Gotti said:
isn't the whole point to reach baseline again pretty quickly? this way if your eating a meal every 4 hours or so, your maximizing protein synthesis as often as possible throughout the day
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Your goal with protein and amino acid consumption should be to increase net protein balance, and to maximize the AUC of that increase, right?

In which case, the current published data is pretty clear that rapid digestion and absorption is not ideal when compared to blends, or even just slower digesting proteins alone.
 
De__eB said:
Your goal with protein and amino acid consumption should be to increase net protein balance, and to maximize the AUC of that increase, right?

In which case, the current published data is pretty clear that rapid digestion and absorption is not ideal when compared to blends, or even just slower digesting proteins alone.
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yeah but data also shows slow digesting protein like casein has little effect on overall protein synthesis, whey is king and your main goal for shakes should be to maximize protein synthesis as fast as possible...protein synthesis is going to return to baseline in about 2 hours either way

so for example: you lift at the gym, drink an isolate shake after the gym...you want the fast acting protein, theres no need for slow digesting because you should be eating a meal shortly there after anyway....the slow drip of protein is pretty useless if your eating enough whole meals because you'll constantly be getting the needed protein in various forms anyway

maybe if your replacing meals with shakes then it could be useful but thats about it
 
roblasane said:
With the addition of all the amino acid products that people are using pre and intra workout is a fast absorbing protein even worth it.

Why not use a good blend. It's usually cheaper , better tasting and more satisfying. I could be wrong in this thought process.
Click to expand...

If you're on a budget, your much better lff just concerning yourself with your total protein intake. Just make sure the profile is decent in AA's and not artifically boosted with glycine content. Throwing in a scoop of bulk leucine is great and affordable too.
 
antihero said:
If you're on a budget, your much better lff just concerning yourself with your total protein intake. Just make sure the profile is decent in AA's and not artifically boosted with glycine content. Throwing in a scoop of bulk leucine is great and affordable too.
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this should be first and foremost...thats why i use blends mostly, because of price
 
Young Gotti said:
yeah but data also shows slow digesting protein like casein has little effect on overall protein synthesis, whey is king and your main goal for shakes should be to maximize protein synthesis as fast as possible...protein synthesis is going to return to baseline in about 2 hours either way

so for example: you lift at the gym, drink an isolate shake after the gym...you want the fast acting protein, theres no need for slow digesting because you should be eating a meal shortly there after anyway....the slow drip of protein is pretty useless if your eating enough whole meals because you'll constantly be getting the needed protein in various forms anyway

maybe if your replacing meals with shakes then it could be useful but thats about it
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We conclude, from these preliminary data that following resistance exercise, the ingestion of a protein blend enhances mTORC1 signaling and MPS similarly to that of whey protein.
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Postexercise FSR increased equivalently in both groups during the early period; however, FSR remained elevated only in the PB group during the late period
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(Where early is 0-2 hours, and late is 2-4 hours)

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Single source proteins and protein blends all enhance skeletal MPS after a meal, however, Blend 2 had a delayed FSR peak which was significantly higher than whey protein at 135 min.
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--
 
My primary point is that blends outperform whey isolate on its own.

My secondary point would be that blends should be significantly cheaper than an isolate product (Although there's this funny recent trend of companies touting this as a new concept and selling blends of cheaper albeit more effective protein ingredients at premium prices...)
 
ecto84 said:
Thats what supplement companies want you to believe. Eat a scoop of the protein supplement every 4 hours just to keep protein synthesis and their business going. In fact, meal count doesnt matter as long as you meet the macros on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

To a point yes. This may be true for a good percentage of us gym rats. For those who compete and or just want to look their best as far as finely tunes cuts muscularity etc. meal timing and actually nutrient timing plays a huge role. I can attest to this personally through experimentation with my own body. I tried the pure macro only (IIFYM) this last summer and definitely saw a difference and lack of results.

I'll add that you can hit macros all day long but if you're missing your micros your results will suffer.

Just my .02
 
De__eB said:
My primary point is that blends outperform whey isolate on its own.

My secondary point would be that blends should be significantly cheaper than an isolate product (Although there's this funny recent trend of companies touting this as a new concept and selling blends of cheaper albeit more effective protein ingredients at premium prices...)
Click to expand...

and i'm saying i disagree with the first part....those studies aren't taking enough into account, like whole foods making the 8 hour amino drip from caesin kind of pointless, unless your just not eating the slow release isn't necessary

i agree on the blends though, but i prefer a whey isolate and whey concentrate blend over whey and caesin...which is also odd because the protein i'm using at the moment has milk protein isolate, caesin, whey and who else knows what in it
 
[sigh] these are such fun and entertaining threads
splitting the minutiae, and everyone always thinks their version is the right one
always good times

real food, ftw
/thread
 
bean5er said:
To a point yes. This may be true for a good percentage of us gym rats. For those who compete and or just want to look their best as far as finely tunes cuts muscularity etc. meal timing and actually nutrient timing plays a huge role. I can attest to this personally through experimentation with my own body. I tried the pure macro only (IIFYM) this last summer and definitely saw a difference and lack of results.

I'll add that you can hit macros all day long but if you're missing your micros your results will suffer.

Just my .02
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Yes! Micros before macros.
 
bean5er said:
To a point yes. This may be true for a good percentage of us gym rats. For those who compete and or just want to look their best as far as finely tunes cuts muscularity etc. meal timing and actually nutrient timing plays a huge role. I can attest to this personally through experimentation with my own body. I tried the pure macro only (IIFYM) this last summer and definitely saw a difference and lack of results.

I'll add that you can hit macros all day long but if you're missing your micros your results will suffer.

Just my .02
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here!

Mike
 
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