Double Epistane Log - Should be interesting

Bigdaz123 said:
that's true after you're back to normal.... Not gonna argue cbf
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I really meant to say you will not gain nothing first week of pct.... It's logical you have zero test for that week or so... How can you possibly build? In regards to the rest of pct... Of course you can gain... Especially when your test is back to normal and your still using nolvadex to stop aromatoze.... Not bagging you out Luke your right
 
doggy_dog said:
Good work, man. Sorry to hear you're so sick, that sucks. Keep those calories high (even higher than before now that you're sick) and lots of fluids. Hope you end the cycle on a good note.
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I think I have already made that mistake :-( I have only eaten about 3200cals a day average for the past 3 days or so. Being nauseous all the time makes it hard to eat, and I'm down 2 lbs already, back to 202.

I'm thinking about extending my cycle another 4-5 days and hitting it hard, eating a ton to make up for the time and weight I lost this week being sick. I wanna start PCT at a solid 205#. What do you guys think about that? Good idea/bad idea?
 
Wow guys, even tho I still don't feel 100%, I hit a 45 LB PR on Back Squat this morning! I was aiming for 350#, hit it with no problem, then hit 360# pretty easily, then decided to go for 375#, pretty sure I could have gotten more, but my legs were shot after that. I can't freaking believe how unreal strong I feel. The Russian Squat program I was on for this cycle definitely contributed to these insane strength gains, but there's no way I would have hit a PR this massive without the Epi. I ****ing love this stuff! Wish I didn't have to ever go off cycle lol. The gains I've made the past 6 weeks are close to what guys make on real gear, so I'm beyond stoked on the results!

Here's a video of my PR. [video=youtube;emYWIqCrBo4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emYWIqCrBo4&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
Aaron330 said:
Wow guys, even tho I still don't feel 100%, I hit a 45 LB PR on Back Squat this morning! I was aiming for 350#, hit it with no problem, then hit 360# pretty easily, then decided to go for 375#, pretty sure I could have gotten more, but my legs were shot after that. I can't freaking believe how unreal strong I feel. The Russian Squat program I was on for this cycle definitely contributed to these insane strength gains, but there's no way I would have hit a PR this massive without the Epi. I ****ing love this stuff! Wish I didn't have to ever go off cycle lol. The gains I've made the past 6 weeks are close to what guys make on real gear, so I'm beyond stoked on the results!

Here's a video of my PR. [video=youtube;emYWIqCrBo4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emYWIqCrBo4&feature=youtu.be[/video]
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Yea youre doing really well, trust me man the weight you lost was water don't worry bout it... There's no way you could lose 2 pounds of
Muscle in 3 days... Just yea keep building til you got no pills left... I eat only 3500 cal a day to bulk... Dunno how you guys eat 4000-5000k lol that's soo much... Good job on the pr
 
Aaron330 said:
Yea I could. How would that work?
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Yea I did last 5 days.of cycle of it. And lost (I think) atleast a pound or more of fat... But stayed at same weight.. Eat at maintenance if you want..and do cardio

.. Do you know by any chance how to run nolvadex/test booster? On pct... I'm just gonna do nolvadex 20/20/20/20 and use activate extrem. 4/4/4/4 but I wanna know do I just have them at same time every day? I have nolvadex 20mg in morning then I do xtreme 2 caps about 1hr later then 2 before I go sleep... Is that right?
 
Bigdaz123 said:
Yea I did last 5 days.of cycle of it. And lost (I think) atleast a pound or more of fat... But stayed at same weight.. Eat at maintenance if you want..and do cardio

.. Do you know by any chance how to run nolvadex/test booster? On pct... I'm just gonna do nolvadex 20/20/20/20 and use activate extrem. 4/4/4/4 but I wanna know do I just have them at same time every day? I have nolvadex 20mg in morning then I do xtreme 2 caps about 1hr later then 2 before I go sleep... Is that right?
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Haha I wish I could tell you bro, but I have all the same questions about PCT. I'm gonna go ask around some other threads to nail down exactly how I should run my PCT. You should too, and then post back here when you find some answers and we'll talk about the different approaches we can take.
 
Bigdaz123 said:
Yea I did last 5 days.of cycle of it. And lost (I think) atleast a pound or more of fat... But stayed at same weight.. Eat at maintenance if you want..and do cardio

.. Do you know by any chance how to run nolvadex/test booster? On pct... I'm just gonna do nolvadex 20/20/20/20 and use activate extrem. 4/4/4/4 but I wanna know do I just have them at same time every day? I have nolvadex 20mg in morning then I do xtreme 2 caps about 1hr later then 2 before I go sleep... Is that right?
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Run the nolva 20/20/20/20 and the AI 0/0/2/4/4/4
Always run the AI past your serm as serms increase circulating estogens so when you come off them you have an abundance and it needs to be controlled for a couple weeks.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Run the nolva 20/20/20/20 and the AI 0/0/2/4/4/4
Always run the AI past your serm as serms increase circulating estogens so when you come off them you have an abundance and it needs to be controlled for a couple weeks.
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can i quit nolva at week 4 and start reversitol alongside xtreme?
 
Hope this helps, I ran reversitol v1 during 4 pcts so far and actually felt more "on" than on certain days of the cycle. Kept most of my gains everytime I ran it
 
Lukef2000 said:
Run the nolva 20/20/20/20 and the AI 0/0/2/4/4/4
Always run the AI past your serm as serms increase circulating estogens so when you come off them you have an abundance and it needs to be controlled for a couple weeks.
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I'm assuming you've done this before without side effects? I definitely understand needing to run your AI past your serm a few weeks, but do you really not need to taper the AI like that? You can just go cold turkey after your last week of 4, and that won't cause any sides?
 
Lukef2000 said:
Run the nolva 20/20/20/20 and the AI 0/0/2/4/4/4
Always run the AI past your serm as serms increase circulating estogens so when you come off them you have an abundance and it needs to be controlled for a couple weeks.
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I just finished my pct for 6 week epistane cycle it was nolva 20/20/10/10 and daa 3/3/3/3/3 and erase 0/0/0/3/2/1/1 I'm still running erase at 1 cap a day. Of course I took creatine mono for pct too and still am and whey protein. Fish oil and multi as well. I only lost 2 lbs. after pct and still have all my strength.
I am still kind of shut down though but I am starting to get back to normal.
 
Aaron330 said:
I'm assuming you've done this before without side effects? I definitely understand needing to run your AI past your serm a few weeks, but do you really not need to taper the AI like that? You can just go cold turkey after your last week of 4, and that won't cause any sides?
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From what I read the only AI you have to taper are "suicidal ai" and erase is not suicidal not sure about the other otc ai. I tapered just to be safe can't hurt.
 
absurd said:
From what I read the only AI you have to taper are "suicidal ai" and erase is not suicidal not sure about the other otc ai. I tapered just to be safe can't hurt.
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Erase is a suicidal AI. Although it does not beed to be tapered.
 
Aaron330 said:
I'm assuming you've done this before without side effects? I definitely understand needing to run your AI past your serm a few weeks, but do you really not need to taper the AI like that? You can just go cold turkey after your last week of 4, and that won't cause any sides?
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As long at its a suicidal AI your using you shouldn't need to taper, as there isn't a chance of estrogen rebound. If you are running a non suididal AI it should be tapered.

absurd said:
I just finished my pct for 6 week epistane cycle it was nolva 20/20/10/10 and daa 3/3/3/3/3 and erase 0/0/0/3/2/1/1 I'm still running erase at 1 cap a day. Of course I took creatine mono for pct too and still am and whey protein. Fish oil and multi as well. I only lost 2 lbs. after pct and still have all my strength.
I am still kind of shut down though but I am starting to get back to normal.
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Just because your out of pct doesn't mean your bodies back in homeostasis, there can still be an imbalance for months. It just means your test levels are back up.

absurd said:
From what I read the only AI you have to taper are "suicidal ai" and erase is not suicidal not sure about the other otc ai. I tapered just to be safe can't hurt.
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You've got it mixed up here bro, dont need to taper suicidals, only non suicidal. Suicidal AIs actually kill Aromatase where as non suicidal only deactivate it.
 
Lukef2000 said:
As long at its a suicidal AI your using you shouldn't need to taper, as there isn't a chance of estrogen rebound. If you are running a non suididal AI it should be tapered.


Just because your out of pct doesn't mean your bodies back in homeostasis, there can still be an imbalance for months. It just means your test levels are back up.


You've got it mixed up here bro, dont need to taper suicidals, only non suicidal. Suicidal AIs actually kill Aromatase where as non suicidal only deactivate it.
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Good to know. I think I'll moderately taper it just to be sure, cuz I get really uneasy about this kind of stuff lol. This is what I'm thinking for my PCT, starting this Friday.

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolva: 20/20/20/20
DAA: 3/3/3/3/3/3
Lean Xtreme: 3/3/3/3
Erase: 0/0/3/3/2/2/1

Cycle assist and liver care throughout. Any thoughts, critiques, input from you guys?
 
Aaron330 said:
Good to know. I think I'll moderately taper it just to be sure, cuz I get really uneasy about this kind of stuff lol. This is what I'm thinking for my PCT, starting this Friday.

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolva: 20/20/20/20
DAA: 3/3/3/3/3/3
Lean Xtreme: 3/3/3/3
Erase: 0/0/3/3/2/2/1

Cycle assist and liver care throughout. Any thoughts, critiques, input from you guys?
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It's not uncommon to taper erase tho, the higher dose give more of the active ingredient and as such kills off more aromatase, I use erase pro which is equivalent to 3 caps regular erase and haven't had any issues. Each to their own tho.
 
Lukef2000 said:
It's not uncommon to taper erase tho, the higher dose give more of the active ingredient and as such kills off more aromatase, I use erase pro which is equivalent to 3 caps regular erase and haven't had any issues. Each to their own tho.
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Would you recommend going 0/0/4/4/3/2/1 with it then?
 
Week 7/Workout 1- Squats and Oly

Starting a 12 week high-volume Oly cycle. Going to be a ton of squatting, and hoping to get my snatch and Clean&Jerk numbers up. Continuing my cycle for 5-7 more days before I start PCT.

Back Squat: 3x10 - 240#
Hang Snatch (top of knee): 5x3 - 115#
Overhead Squat: 5x3 - 140#
Halting Snatch Deadlift: 3x3 - 165#

Felt great today. Been really excited about starting this Oly cycle. I haven't had any joint pain at all since I got my SuperCissus in, but today I felt some dry joints pain in my knees for the first time again. Wasn't bad. Back Pumps are starting to get more noticeable even with taking 5g of Taurine. Maxing out on Bench tomorrow, so that will be fun.
 
I'm so confused... Everyone talking bout erase... That's fine its Aaron's thread... But I just wanna know I'm running nolva 20/20/20/20 with xtreme at the exact same time 4/4/4/4 .... Am I doing it wrong or is this fine? And if so why?? I'm on 3rd day of pct and feel great with a semi libido
 
Bigdaz123 said:
I'm so confused... Everyone talking bout erase... That's fine its Aaron's thread... But I just wanna know I'm running nolva 20/20/20/20 with xtreme at the exact same time 4/4/4/4 .... Am I doing it wrong or is this fine? And if so why?? I'm on 3rd day of pct and feel great with a semi libido
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As far as I know, and what I've read, that's fine. I'm going to be taking my Lean Xtreme with my nolva as well
 
Maxed out on Bench yesterday and was able to get 320# for 1. Fairly happy with that. I've put 45 lbs on my bench in the last 11 weeks, 30 of those in the last 6.

I'm going to go ahead and start my PCT today. A few questions: Does it matter how I time my doses? For example, should I take Clomid in the morning, Nolva at night? Also, is it ok to take my SERM's with Orange juice? I am wondering if the acidity in the OJ would ruin the SERM or anything like that? I've read a few guys say that they take it with OJ though so I'm assuming its fine.

Let me know what you guys think
 
PCT/Cycle Recap

Well I started my PCT today, so I figured I should do a recap of the cycle now, and I'll do one again after my PCT. From now on I won't post my workout logs, but only any notable changes that happen along the way. Here's some pic and stat re-caps

Pre-Cycle Stats:

Weight: 193
Bench: 290
Back Squat: 330
Deadlift: 425
Overhead Press: 160

Post-Cycle Stats:

Weight: 205 - 12lb gain
Bench: 320 - 30lb gain
Back Squat: 375 - 45lb gain
Deadlift: 465 - 40lb gain
Overhead Press: 190 - 30 lb gain

Needless to say, these gains were amazing to me. Put on 12 lbs of muscle, definitely lost some body fat, and added 30-45 lbs to all my lifts. Most impressive of all to me is the way my overhead press went up. That was my biggest weakness, and while it is by far the weakest of the 4 powerlifts, I still gained 30lbs on it, which is the same I gained on Bench press and almost what I gained on Deadlift for crying out loud. As a side note, I also put about 30lbs to my close grip bench as well.

Pictures:

BEFORE
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AFTER
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I've noticed the biggest change in my abs, traps and arms. My arms don't look much bigger in the pic for some reason, but they are alot bigger, probably an inch (i will measure at work tomorrow), because all my t-shirt sleeves are crazy tight on me now and everyone I know has been commenting on how they look bigger. My abs also look much more defined from pic 1 to pic 2, especially on the bottom, which is great. To say I am stoked on these results is an understatement. This cycle was an amazing experience that I think every guy who loves fitness/bodybuilding should give it a shot. It would have taken me at least a year to get these results, and I got them in 6 freaking weeks. This stuff works like magic. Didn't get almost any acne, and the only real side effects I felt were some dry joints and lethargy/sleepiness during the day. Now my next challenge will be to keep as much of these gains as possible through my PCT.
 
Fantastic results, man.
Great all around gains. Hope PCT is smooth so you can maintain it all and bounce back quick.

I've been on the fence about my Epi cycle (was having some 2nd thoughts) but you're making a good case.
 
doggy_dog said:
Fantastic results, man. Great all around gains. Hope PCT is smooth so you can maintain it all and bounce back quick. I've been on the fence about my Epi cycle (was having some 2nd thoughts) but you're making a good case.
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Glad to hear it man, I would highly recommend you give it a go. It went surprisingly smooth and I love that you don't have to worry about gyno on cycle. I realize I'm not out of the woods yet because I just started my PCT, but I'll be posting updates every few days so check back when it's all said and done to get the final verdict.
 
Yea I'm 5th day of pct... It's going great cept just has slight testicle pain... I guess that means they coming back... You might get same prob so don't stress.. I dunno if Clomid or hcg takes care of that... I think also I was gonna start 're running activate extreme at 3 pills so I can extend it past the serm finish
 
Bigdaz123 said:
Yea I'm 5th day of pct... It's going great cept just has slight testicle pain... I guess that means they coming back... You might get same prob so don't stress.. I dunno if Clomid or hcg takes care of that... I think also I was gonna start 're running activate extreme at 3 pills so I can extend it past the serm finish
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That's good to know. I'm down for whatever as long as I get my balls back lol. Is activate extreme a cort controller? I'm on lean extreme. Are we only supposed to take those for 4 weeks?
 
Aaron330 said:
That's good to know. I'm down for whatever as long as I get my balls back lol. Is activate extreme a cort controller? I'm on lean extreme. Are we only supposed to take those for 4 weeks?
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Nuh activate xtreme isn't a cortisol blocker only erase is... But I've researched 1+ grams of vitamin c reduces cortisol by 30%... So I'm on that.... You're on the perfect pct but Clomid/nolvadex are for serious drugs... Epistane is really mild... Stick with your lean xtreme and erase... I don't know the ai between both I think erase and xtreme both have suicidal ai properties... Can someone correct me?
 
Bigdaz123 said:
Nuh activate xtreme isn't a cortisol blocker only erase is... But I've researched 1+ grams of vitamin c reduces cortisol by 30%... So I'm on that.... You're on the perfect pct but Clomid/nolvadex are for serious drugs... Epistane is really mild... Stick with your lean xtreme and erase... I don't know the ai between both I think erase and xtreme both have suicidal ai properties... Can someone correct me?
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Clomid and nolvadex are for anything that suppresses your hpta which ill add epistane does. If your going to use anything suppressive a serm is a must to get things happening as fast as possible. You will recover without one BUT it will take a lot longer and you'll probably lose what you gained. /rant
 
Lukef2000 said:
Clomid and nolvadex are for anything that suppresses your hpta which ill add. epistane does. If your going to use anything suppressive a serm is a must to get things happening as fast as possible. You will recover without one BUT it will take a lot longer and you'll probably lose what you gained. /rant
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Yea that's true, but do they actively brings your nuts back or do we have to wait naturally for them...? What does hcg do compared to nolvadex/Clomid?
 
Man, this PCT is not going well so far. I haven't lost much really, still weighing 203 in the mornings, but it has been impossible to go to sleep the last three nights. I also feel extremely sick this morning like throwing up, and don't feel like working out or eating, which is not good.

Any suggestions from you experienced guys about how to deal with the sleep issues and feeling sick?
 
Aaron330 said:
Man, this PCT is not going well so far. I haven't lost much really, still weighing 203 in the mornings, but it has been impossible to go to sleep the last three nights. I also feel extremely sick this morning like throwing up, and don't feel like working out or eating, which is not good. Any suggestions from you experienced guys about how to deal with the sleep issues and feeling sick?
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Been lurking since you started. Nice log. As far as bad sleep goes for me I've used ZMA and inhibit-p before bed and i seem to pass out. My cousin uses the same combo and loves it to.
 
Bigdaz123 said:
Yea that's true, but do they actively brings your nuts back or do we have to wait naturally for them...? What does hcg do compared to nolvadex/Clomid?
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They always come ba k naturally, serms just speed up the process. It still takes a lot longer for your body to reach homeostasis. Hcg mimics leutinizing hormone, it shouldn't be used in pct as its suppressive to your natural LH secretion, it can be however used on cycle at small doses e3d to keep your nuts producing endogenous testosterone.
 
BlumpkinKing said:
Been lurking since you started. Nice log. As far as bad sleep goes for me I've used ZMA and inhibit-p before bed and i seem to pass out. My cousin uses the same combo and loves it to.
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Nice man, thanks for the reference. I'll be buying some of that immediately. Would most major supplement sites carry those?
 
Lukef2000 said:
Yeah nutraplanet should sell those, another thing is melatonin which you can get from a health food shop.
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I've been taking that with NyQuil and it doesn't seem to do much. What I'm really worried about right now is the stomach sickness I've been feeling :-/
 
Does anyone know if it could be the DAA causing the stomach upsetness? I think I read somewhere that it does. I am thinking about forgoing it for the rest of my PCT, but mostly because I just read the article on the home page about it having no effect whatsoever. Not sure if that doesn't apply to guys who are coming off a cycle and have very low levels to start with. But I think I'm going to give it up just because of the stomach issues I've been having. Does anyone have any input on this? I'm not sure if its the Clomid, Nolva, or DAA that's giving me problems, but I can't afford to give up the first two
 
Aaron330 said:
Does anyone know if it could be the DAA causing the stomach upsetness? I think I read somewhere that it does. I am thinking about forgoing it for the rest of my PCT, but mostly because I just read the article on the home page about it having no effect whatsoever. Not sure if that doesn't apply to guys who are coming off a cycle and have very low levels to start with. But I think I'm going to give it up just because of the stomach issues I've been having. Does anyone have any input on this? I'm not sure if its the Clomid, Nolva, or DAA that's giving me problems, but I can't afford to give up the first two
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It's definitely not nolvadex... It could be your daa I've used one before and had same prob but really mildly... Try to push through if it starts ruining your training days then stop it just rum Clomid/nolvadex together then wait til you can use erase... You gotta realise you are popping pills like crazy to get your hpta so your body might not be used to it
 
Lukef2000 said:
They always come ba k naturally, serms just speed up the process. It still takes a lot longer for your body to reach homeostasis. Hcg mimics leutinizing hormone, it shouldn't be used in pct as its suppressive to your natural LH secretion, it can be however used on cycle at small doses e3d to keep your nuts producing endogenous testosterone.
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Cheers Luke... I get it now, so pretty much keep running nolvadex and xtreme for the rest of pct... Too many hormones to deal with lol
 
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