Double Epistane Log - Should be interesting

[Aaron330]

Thanks I got mixed up. I'm gonna be out for nolva for 2 days after tonight because of the stupid blizzard and shipping delays should I take erase on two days without nolva? I've been on nolva for 1.5 weeks now 40/40/40 and 20 for rest of the days. I'm trying to get rid of the gyno. OP my strength it down too and idk why even before the nolva it went down. I was fine like a month after pct then my strength tanked but so did my diet.

It's really starting to piss me off. I'm gonna wait two weeks and jump right back into another cycle, cuz this is bull****. I worked so hard on my last cycle for these strength gains and now they're all but gone

 

[absurd]

It's really starting to piss me off. I'm gonna wait two weeks and jump right back into another cycle, cuz this is bull****. I worked so hard on my last cycle for these strength gains and now they're all but gone

Haha I'm doing the same thing (along with being pissed as hell). I'm gonna run epi and probably clen too!

 

[doggy_dog]

Sorry to hear guys. That totally sucks.

Aaron, how is your weight holding up? Have you lost any more or have you maintained?

 

[Aaron330]

Sorry to hear guys. That totally sucks. Aaron, how is your weight holding up? Have you lost any more or have you maintained?

I've lost pretty much all that too. I'm around 196, and I started the cycle at 193 in September.

 

[absurd]

Dang man that sucks I lost maybe 5 lbs. but a lot of strength. I went from doing 80lb. dumbells easily down to 70s. on shoulders. I went from benching 245x8 to struggling on 225 for 5 reps. Its been my diet and lack of exercise I think. School work and work in general has caught up to me and gym time has been cut down unfortunately. My new log has been posted although I'm not starting yet. If you want to join in the thread feel free provide some advice and tips. Thanks!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/240495-time-get-supercuts.html#post4308613

 

[Aaron330]

Just did shoulder press. Here is a real example of how much my strength levels are down

2 months ago right at the start of my PCT I did this weight on shoulder press

125-145-160-145-125

The reps I got for each weight was:

5-3-7-7-12

Today I got:

5-3-3-6-10

Huge drop off on the 160# bar. I got more than twice as many reps 2 months ago.

Discouraging to say the least, but all the more reason to try 1 more cycle once this gyno is gone.

Puffiness has reduced dramatically but I still feel the small bump directly underneath the nipple. Gonna wait till that disappears, the. Taper down and start the AI.

 

[absurd]

How's the ralox working? I think I'm gonna pick some up since letro has too many sides and should be a last resort and I've read ralox works even better then letro.

 

[deadliftz]

So what do you think went wrong in PCT?

 

[Aaron330]

So far I've seen a minimal amount of decrease Id say. The lump has decreased a bit but still hurts to the touch sometimes. Puffiness has also decreased a bit. I'm gonna continue the raloxifene for another month for sure

 

[Aaron330]

Hey you guys, question. Is it normal to experience pain in your testicles while on a SERM? My left testicle has been radiating this pain all day long and it hurts pretty damn bad. Have any of you experienced this? And should I be worried?

 

[deadliftz]

Hey you guys, question. Is it normal to experience pain in your testicles while on a SERM? My left testicle has been radiating this pain all day long and it hurts pretty damn bad. Have any of you experienced this? And should I be worried?

I recall reading somewhere that it's normal for them to hurt when they regrow, just as when they shrink.

 

[Aaron330]

I hope so lol. The thing is tho they haven't been shrunk at all since November when I finished my cycle. But I'm sure it's just a hormonal thing of some kind that will go away once I'm off.

 

[deadliftz]

I hope so lol. The thing is tho they haven't been shrunk at all since November when I finished my cycle. But I'm sure it's just a hormonal thing of some kind that will go away once I'm off.

Did you experience much atrophy on cycle? I've had some minor pain but not much shrinkage - any reduction in size might just be in my head.

 

[Aaron330]

Yea I did see some minor atrophy, but it was mostly the sex drive crashing than anything else. The pain stopped yesterday around 4 or 5pm. Haven't had any yet today. But it was killing me yesterday morning while I was trying to coach a class. It was all I could do to keep it together and not grab my nuts in pain each time LOL

 

[murk01]

Yep. I had some pain. Kinda like getting blue balls but a bit more intense. It didnt really last long.

 

[Bigdaz123]

My nuts hurt 5th day into pct... Lasted bout half a day or so can't remember... If you wanna keep your gains Aaron for next cycle.. Consider clenbuterol

 

[deadliftz]

Yeah I've had some pretty bad pain since starting PCT, mostly in the mornings for some reason. Day six and it seems to have stopped now.

 

[Tdizzle]

Great log!! I just recently joined this site as I have been researching Epi for a while now.

 

[Aaron330]

Just as an update to those who might care, the raloxifene has been working pretty well. Not as fast as is like, but I'm on my third bottle of it and the tissue that formed has all but disappeared. I have another months supply left and I am just going to use it all out, because I still experience some pain under the nipple if I lay flat on the ground and roll over it. I never had this pain before, so that tells me there is still some tissue in there. I can feel it, but it's directly under the nipple and extremely tiny. There is no visual difference at all anymore which is great. But I really don't want to always have this minor pain and sensitivity, so I'll continue use for anther month and see if it completely erases it or not.

Also testicular pain hasn't occurred again since that one day where I was really bad. Not sure what to make of that, but I guess it's no big deal.

I applied to the police department here in OKC and I am in the interview process. If I get chosen to go to the police academy they will put me through a drug test and a physical so I'm going to wait after that to do another Epi cycle.

It's really funny though cuz there's a handful of cops at OCPD that are very obviously juicing up. They are stupid jacked. It's awesome lol

 

[Shaun235]

Thanks for the update and logging, helped me out.

 

[Lukef2000]

Just as an update to those who might care, the raloxifene has been working pretty well. Not as fast as is like, but I'm on my third bottle of it and the tissue that formed has all but disappeared. I have another months supply left and I am just going to use it all out, because I still experience some pain under the nipple if I lay flat on the ground and roll over it. I never had this pain before, so that tells me there is still some tissue in there. I can feel it, but it's directly under the nipple and extremely tiny. There is no visual difference at all anymore which is great. But I really don't want to always have this minor pain and sensitivity, so I'll continue use for anther month and see if it completely erases it or not. Also testicular pain hasn't occurred again since that one day where I was really bad. Not sure what to make of that, but I guess it's no big deal. I applied to the police department here in OKC and I am in the interview process. If I get chosen to go to the police academy they will put me through a drug test and a physical so I'm going to wait after that to do another Epi cycle. It's really funny though cuz there's a handful of cops at OCPD that are very obviously juicing up. They are stupid jacked. It's awesome lol

glad to hear the raloxifene is doing its job.
Haha funny you mention about the jacked cops, I have a mate it the police force and he's a juice pig. Absolutely massive dude! He had a pre employment medical/drug test and hasn't been tested since.

 

[Aaron330]

Alright guys, I need some advice. I'd like to get a consensus on what the best idea is.

I still have a small remnant of the gyno and it's not going away. Been on Raloxifene for over two months now and it can't seem to kick the last remaining bit. It's not alot, just a small, very hard lump underneath the nipples and makes them a little puffier than they were before the cycle. It's not noticable at all when they are hard thankfully, but the real thing I hate about it the most is the pain I get when laying on my chest if I roll over my nipple. The way I see it, I have three options:

1) Continue to use the Raloxifene for like two more months. Maybe up the dosage from 60mg/day to 100mg/day? Not sure if that would make a difference though.

2) Go on another Epi cycle, because Epi is known for getting rid of gyno, at least while on cycle. When I come off the cycle I will do about an 8 week PCT with heavy Nolva/Raloxifene tapering down, using Exemestane as my AI. That way the Epi will get rid of my gyno and the Nolva/Ralox combo would ensure no breast tissue would reform during PCT.

3) Try Letro. I bought some but I'm not sure if its any more effective than the Raloxifene.

What do you guys think?

 

[Lukef2000]

If your chomping at the bit to get on cycle man I'd go ahead and do it. The problem with Epi is rebound gyno so it definitely won't get any worse during another cycle. That pct sounds like a solid idea since your obviously gyno prone.
If it were me I would run another cycle hit another cycle, pct with raloxifene and nolva and if there's still the hard lump afterwards I would go down the letrozole route.

 

[Aaron330]

Thanks again man, I think that's what I'll do. Not necessarily because I'm chomping at the bit to do another cycle (although I do want to), but just because I think that would be the most effective route.

I'm finally now, after 3 solid months and 4 bottles later, cycling of the Raloxifene. Luckily in the past few days I've seen a dramatic decrease in the size and hardness of the lump, and the puffiness has gone down a lot too. I would say there's only 5% remaining from what I originally had. Only way I know it's still there is because of the slight pain I feel when I lay on it.

I will update every week or so on this thread when I start my next cycle, both on how the gains are coming and on how the gyno is doing. Hopefully I can fully eradicate it.

 

[djslife]

This has to be my favorite log of epi so far. Super informative and actual issues with gyno that needed to be dealt with.

Thanks for the log, Aaron.

-djslife

 

[Aaron330]

This has to be my favorite log of epi so far. Super informative and actual issues with gyno that needed to be dealt with. Thanks for the log, Aaron. -djslife

Dude I am really stoked to hear that! Thanks for the compliment. I really take the most pleasure out of helping others and contributing to the knowledge and research of this fairly new supplement field. Totally worth making a few costly mistakes if dozens or more of guys can learn from mine and avoid themselves.

I guess it would be a good idea to do a summary post of the whole entire log for people who are looking for quick answers

 

[djslife]

Dude I am really stoked to hear that! Thanks for the compliment. I really take the most pleasure out of helping others and contributing to the knowledge and research of this fairly new supplement field. Totally worth making a few costly mistakes if dozens or more of guys can learn from mine and avoid themselves.

I guess it would be a good idea to do a summary post of the whole entire log for people who are looking for quick answers

I agree with you on that. It makes planning out future cycles feel a little safer. We all have questions and we all want to do this the right way. Definitely throw up a post about your pre, during, and post cycle supplementation. That way we can see the best way to attack it in the future.

I'm slowly gathering info on how I'll be doing my first cycle down the road so this makes a world of difference.

Thanks again,

-djslife

 

[Aaron330]

**SUMMARY POST OF ENTIRE CYCLE**

I preloaded cycle assist and Liv.52 for a week

LGI Epi-10 30/30/30/45/45/45
Aegis Shield of the gods

Cycle went great. Only side effects I got during cycle were dry joints, which weren't horrible but did bother me quite a bit the last 2 weeks. I was taking fish oil and supercissus which kept it at bay.

I started the cycle at 193lb, got up to 207 on cycle, and dropped down to 204 during PCT. Gained 40 lbs in bench press, 50 lbs in Back Squat, 40lbs on deadlift, and about 20 lbs on Overhead Press. I made it a point on cycle to lift heavy 5-6 days a week. I did alot of CrossFit as well and didn't check my body fat before but I definitely lost a bit of body fat too. Overall the cycle itself was amazing and I made almost steroid-like gains. It was everything I hoped for and then some.

Post cycle was where things really went wrong. I have a sensitive digestion system and the DAA I took absolutely wrecked my colon. Horrible stomach cramps for about 10 days. It was too acidic and gave me the most abominable, excruciating acid diarrhea you can imagine. It was honestly the most painful thing I've ever experienced. Almost made me cry grown man tears.

So because of that, I couldn't eat for about a week or work out, and so I lost most of my gains. I dropped down to 195 again, although I was able to keep most of my strength gains.

Now during PCT I took Nolva and Clomid, and planned on doing Erase as my AI 3/3/2/1. About the last week of taking Erase, I noticed my nipples were getting puffy. I felt a large dime sized lump underneath and immediately knew I had gotten rebound gyno. The Erase was obviously not strong enough. Worst part was that I was on vacation in Cali for the week of Christmas, so I immediately ordered Raloxifene and when I got back to my home in Oklahoma City, it was there waiting for me. After about 2 months of 60mg/day, the Raloxifene had completely taken care of my gyno. And it was great because there were NO side effects at all from the Ralox. No suppression, no nothing. I actually was able to make great natural gains for the two months I was on it. I am a huge fan of this SERM now and I will always use it in my pct from now on. Stuff works like magic.

What I would do differently next time is take Tropinol XP for my natural test booster instead of DAA during PCT, and take Exemestane as my AI instead of Erase. The Erase was an absolute joke and was clearly not effective enough. My buddy did the same exact cycle as me And I told him to do 4/4/3/2/1 and that seemed to work for him, as he did not get gyno.

Epistane was an amazing compound and is about the safest you can use on the market and still make great gains. I HIGHLY recommend anyone on cycle take plenty of liver support. TUDCA Liver shield, Liv. 52 and a cycle support. Simply because why not? It's your liver, take care of it because if you damage it with PH cycles you are ****ed for life. And these supplements are cheap so its absolutely stupid not to.

I highly recommend Epistane to anyone looking to do a PH cycle, just make sure you really know what you're doing in PCT and you will make great gains with this PH.

 

[Mystere3]

Ralox doesn't really stimulate the hpta, it's great for gyno though. Two serms for pct was overkill.

 

[Lukef2000]

Ralox doesn't really stimulate the hpta, it's great for gyno though. Two serms for pct was overkill.

Not really they do go about the same thing via two different avenues and for the price I always tend to run two + a myriad of other things lol I tend to spend a **** load on pct.

 

[Aaron330]

Ralox doesn't really stimulate the hpta, it's great for gyno though. Two serms for pct was overkill.

I was advised by a few experienced guys that it was fine or even a good idea. But at this point in not sure if I got rebound gyno from overkill on the SERMs which made it too much for the Erase to control, or simply that Erase wasn't a strong enough AI. I am leaning toward the latter but I guess I'll never really know

 

[Mystere3]

I would vote for the first. I don't even take two serms with test/tren/eq/dbol/var, you certainly don't need it with epi.

 

[Bigdaz123]

How good was hcgenerate for you guys if you ever used it? Does it stop full shutdown? Cause I ran epistane for 5 weeks and I was shutdown first week of pct... If I had hcgenerate would it stop testy shrinkage during cycle?

 

[Mystere3]

Absolutely not. It's worthless during cycle. That's n t b m marketing bullsht. It's a good test booster for pct.

 

[ChefJoey]

DAA bulk powder absolutely wreaked my stomach last time I used it too.

I feel your pain lol.

 

[Aaron330]

DAA bulk powder absolutely wreaked my stomach last time I used it too. I feel your pain lol.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one. It completely stole all of my body weight gains.

 

[wicked442]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one. It completely stole all of my body weight gains.

You could use AgeForce testo 100 patch. Im about to use it for pct after a harsh ph/ds cycle. No stomach issues and more of what you want in your system.

 

[Bigdaz123]

Rpn havoc or cel estane? Better?