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3,7 keto dhea the same as arimistane(Androst-3,5-dien-7,1)

No they are not the same at all. Two different ingredients. I think he is right you are thinking of formastane. It is a different type of ingredient also. What product are you specifically speaking of?
 
I can see why you would think that but I am not referring to formestane. I am referring to one of the ingredients in the product free test by applied nutriceuticals. It is actually listed as 3,7-oxo dhea (sorry about the mix up).

Also is arimistane a suitable ai in one's pct?
 
They are the same, but the nomenclature on "3,7 keto dhea" is quite wrong as aaron pointed out. Should be 3-desoxy,7-keto dhea.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
They are the same, but the nomenclature on "3,7 keto dhea" is quite wrong as aaron pointed out. Should be 3-desoxy,7-keto dhea.
Click to expand...

i may sound like a smart ass here, and forgive me cooper if i do but that's also "technically" a misnomer. It's just easier to say that version. What it should more accurately be is 3-deoxy-delta-3-7-keto-dhea. we can't forget to account for the double bond from C3-C4.

It's kind of like how people call Phera "DMT" when that's also kind of a misnomer. "desoxymethyltestosterone"(if we're referring to loss of 3-oxygen) would actually more accurately be 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en. Deoxy is a loose term though, and can mean many things (not just loss of keto/hydroxy functionality)

That name has always bothered me(people will inevitably use it though), and I was unsure if you (et al.) were aware of that or not.
 
Bry17 said:
i may sound like a smart ass here, and forgive me cooper if i do but that's also "technically" a misnomer. It's just easier to say that version. What it should more accurately be is 3-deoxy-delta-3-7-keto-dhea. we can't forget to account for the double bond from C3-C4.

It's kind of like how people call Phera "DMT" when that's also kind of a misnomer. "desoxymethyltestosterone"(if we're referring to loss of 3-oxygen) would actually more accurately be 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en. Deoxy is a loose term though, and can mean many things (not just loss of keto/hydroxy functionality)

That name has always bothered me, and I was unsure if you (et al.) were aware of that or not.
Click to expand...

I was aware, and you're right, technically that name is correct. But it opens up the door for ambiguity, which a lesser company (certainly not AN) could capitalize on by using an ingredient that's accurate on the label but not the ingredient used in studies.

It's actually not terribly easy to get a pure synthesis on this compound, so minutia like this can matter
 
Bry17 said:
i may sound like a smart ass here, and forgive me cooper if i do but that's also "technically" a misnomer. It's just easier to say that version. What it should more accurately be is 3-deoxy-delta-3-7-keto-dhea. we can't forget to account for the double bond from C3-C4.

It's kind of like how people call Phera "DMT" when that's also kind of a misnomer. "desoxymethyltestosterone"(if we're referring to loss of 3-oxygen) would actually more accurately be 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en. Deoxy is a loose term though, and can mean many things (not just loss of keto/hydroxy functionality)

That name has always bothered me(people will inevitably use it though), and I was unsure if you (et al.) were aware of that or not.
Click to expand...

What's with the dash between the three and the seven?
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I was aware, and you're right, technically that name is correct. But it opens up the door for ambiguity, which a lesser company (certainly not AN) could capitalize on by using an ingredient that's accurate on the label but not the ingredient used in studies.It's actually not terribly easy to get a pure synthesis on this compound, so minutia like this can matter
Click to expand...
I had a feeling you were. And thanks for the clarification.
todd muelheim said:
What's with the dash between the three and the seven?
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"delta-3" denotes the location of the double bond from carbon three to carbon four and the "7" indicates the position where a ketone is (C7). The dash is used to separate them so it can be read more clearly.
 
Bry17 said:
I had a feeling you were. And thanks for the clarification."delta-3" denotes the location of the double bond from carbon three to carbon four and the "7" indicates the position of the ketone (C7). The dash is used to separate them so it can be read more clearly.
Click to expand...

I think cooper picked up what I was putting down, unless we are both missing something. I figured since we were being nitpicky, we should do it according to the rules.
 
todd muelheim said:
I think cooper picked up what I was putting down, unless we are both missing something. I figured since we were being nitpicky, we should do it according to the rules.
Click to expand...

according to IUPAC standards delta-[#],[#] would indicate that there are two double bonds. So if it looked like delta-3,7-keto one might misinterpret that for two double bonds (at C3 and C7)

because the ketone is a separate group a dash is used. regardless, I was only trying to clear things up. I would think people would rather learn more accurate terms rather than nicknames.
 
Bry17 said:
example by random google:

In this case it's delta-[#],[#],[#]

^Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be a dash, why would you continue to argue this? If you think it is ambiguous, use one of the other naming methods.
 
Bry17 said:
you clearly don't get it. thread is now about dashes vs commas. :rolleyes:

whatever bro
Click to expand...

Dude I'm just orgo-trolling you. On an unrelated note what are your thoughts on CellTech? I heard it gives steroid like gains.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I was aware, and you're right, technically that name is correct. But it opens up the door for ambiguity, which a lesser company (certainly not AN) could capitalize on by using an ingredient that's accurate on the label but not the ingredient used in studies.

It's actually not terribly easy to get a pure synthesis on this compound, so minutia like this can matter
Click to expand...


Agreed, good way to look at the subtle differences
 
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