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anti estrogens

OnionKnight said:
are they actually good for fat loss? i thought that was just a saying because of the drying effect
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The data is actually quite mixed on the topic, with suggestions that those with higher than normal/optimal levels could benefit. It honestly goes both ways, even with respect to muscle mass. Here's a nice read I had bookmarked:

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Note that aromatase activity is very low in skeletal muscle (and much higher in adipose tissue) so you don't have to be concerned in this regard. Just thought it was cool stuff
 
It would appear that inhibiting estrogen activity either by aromatase or direct antagonism is counter productive for fat loss. The articles i came across used aromatase, estrogen receptor and androgen receptor knockout mice. Some were gender specific and others were not.

Aromatase and estrogen receptor knockout mice(males + females) showed greater fat accumulation, both visceral and peripheral. They also had increased insulin sensitivity and reduced leptin secretion. Androgen receptor knockout mice showed slight fat accumulation but also a large increase in lipase(and probably downstream increase in UCP) but they had normal insulin sensitivity and LPL levels.

InVitro studies shows that androgens, but not estrogens, increase adrenergic alpha 2 expression in non specific tissue thus inhibiting lipolysis. On the other hand, androgens showed inhibition of adipocyte proliferation i.e. formation of new fatty cells whilst estrogen increases.
Estrogens on the other hand resulted in increased adenylyl cyclase activity suggesting enhanced beta adrenoceptor activity and so increased downstream lipolytic activity.

Based on the information provided above, i conclude healthy levels of estrogens is optimal for fat loss. Real life results may be completely different but most theories are based on vitro evidence, so using AAs may be counter productive.

But then again, considering that plenty of fat burners contain a2 inhibitors in some form and that increased AR activity is muscle sparing, slight decreases(if any) is a low price to pay for holding on to hard earned muscle.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
They can be quite useful for fat loss/"drying out." Erase is a favorite around here
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Will agree on this one.

Was taking Alphamine for 20 days and little change in my belly area even with light weight lifting 3x a week and almost no change in weight.

Then 3 weeks break and I've started taking Erase Pro 3x/week 1 cap and in next 3 weeks without any exercise I've lost 1kg and even saw slightly 6 pack in belly area.

Not to mention overall improvement in quality of sleep, mood - was very impressed not to mention convenience of taking 1 cap just 2 or 3x a week.

Tried before also Erase at 3 caps a day for 6 days and all 6 days no morning wood but no such problem when taking Erase Pro.

Which tells me everybody needs to find their sweet spot not to crush estrogen too low and wood is best indicator to tell you this.
 
ahh123 said:
Will agree on this one.

Was taking Alphamine for 20 days and little change in my belly area even with light weight lifting 3x a week and almost no change in weight.

Then 3 weeks break and I've started taking Erase Pro 3x/week 1 cap and in next 3 weeks without any exercise I've lost 1kg and even saw slightly 6 pack in belly area.

Not to mention overall improvement in quality of sleep, mood - was very impressed not to mention convenience of taking 1 cap just 2 or 3x a week.

Tried before also Erase at 3 caps a day for 6 days and all 6 days no morning wood but no such problem when taking Erase Pro.

Which tells me everybody needs to find their sweet spot not to crush estrogen too low and wood is best indicator to tell you this.
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I avoid AIs as they kill my libido!
 
mr.cooper69 said:
The data is actually quite mixed on the topic, with suggestions that those with higher than normal/optimal levels could benefit. It honestly goes both ways, even with respect to muscle mass. Here's a nice read I had bookmarked:

Invalid Link Removed

Note that aromatase activity is very low in skeletal muscle (and much higher in adipose tissue) so you don't have to be concerned in this regard. Just thought it was cool stuff
Click to expand...
this. i dont think they do MUCH unless you have higher levels already. it will kill your libido
 
nidhogg said:
It would appear that inhibiting estrogen activity either by aromatase or direct antagonism is counter productive for fat loss. The articles i came across used aromatase, estrogen receptor and androgen receptor knockout mice. Some were gender specific and others were not.

Aromatase and estrogen receptor knockout mice(males + females) showed greater fat accumulation, both visceral and peripheral. They also had increased insulin sensitivity and reduced leptin secretion. Androgen receptor knockout mice showed slight fat accumulation but also a large increase in lipase(and probably downstream increase in UCP) but they had normal insulin sensitivity and LPL levels.

InVitro studies shows that androgens, but not estrogens, increase adrenergic alpha 2 expression in non specific tissue thus inhibiting lipolysis. On the other hand, androgens showed inhibition of adipocyte proliferation i.e. formation of new fatty cells whilst estrogen increases.
Estrogens on the other hand resulted in increased adenylyl cyclase activity suggesting enhanced beta adrenoceptor activity and so increased downstream lipolytic activity.

Based on the information provided above, i conclude healthy levels of estrogens is optimal for fat loss. Real life results may be completely different but most theories are based on vitro evidence, so using AAs may be counter productive.

But then again, considering that plenty of fat burners contain a2 inhibitors in some form and that increased AR activity is muscle sparing, slight decreases(if any) is a low price to pay for holding on to hard earned muscle.
Click to expand...


The data is definitely muddled, and obviously one cannot compare Erase to an estrogen knockout mouse. Plus, as you said, forskolin and/or rauwolscine would ameliorate any adrenergic effects that may arise, though I don't foresee such from a 4-8 week Erase cycle.

To the others: Rebound is no concern, practically speaking
 
Now that I'm around 12-13 % even one dose of OG Erase dries out my joints...shame because I really enjoyed its 'drying out' effects.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
The data is definitely muddled, and obviously one cannot compare Erase to an estrogen knockout mouse. Plus, as you said, forskolin and/or rauwolscine would ameliorate any adrenergic effects that may arise, though I don't foresee such from a 4-8 week Erase cycle.

To the others: Rebound is no concern, practically speaking
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so what would you say about formadrol?
 
gibbons2 said:
during. like did you build more muscle while on it? (sorry should've been more specific)
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Ya for sure. I gained some lean muscle mass and kept it post Erase use. I mean you wont gain a crazy amount of muscle but it is noticeable.
 
Intimidate SRT will be on the market very soon.

It contains 30mg of NMDA(the methylated cousin of DAA), and 500mg of Brassaiopsis Glomerulata per pill This active compound is Brassaiopsis was compared directly to Letrozole in the study. If you want an AI...this is definitely a great option!
 
morning wood and macuna prureins

I took macuna low dose 5 years ago for moods after I quit smoking....thought it was the quit after 90 days that I could jump anyonesa bones

Im looking to increase my test levels, been taking avena sativa and tribulius, not bad stopped the trib just 300 avena sativa but now increasing macuna extract to 700mg 2x...morning wood good, moods are much better

Ive read into Erase pro, maybe Ive been goin backwards and should take an anti estrogen supp instead? and let Erase pro do its thing? any side effects from erase? sounds like it help me lose some body fat my bmI is 25
 
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