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Training making me fat?

I'll post my thoughts based on my own recent experiences and research. I trained intensively on a five day on routine with HIT and followed a low carb and calories diet based upon' IF principles. After a month to six weeks I begin suffering from....

Tremors
Insomnia
Mood swings
Elevated resting heart rate (by 30%)
Fat gain despite massive calorie deficit
No interest in the gym

Eventually I had to take time off work and the gym. I rested for three weeks whilst increasing calories and vitamin B, C and magnesium consumption. After all my research, I was certain that I had adrenal insufficiency. I looked and felt better after a three week break from the gym. I restarted the gym at the beginning of the 4th week and didn't push myself at all, training at only 50% of my normal schedule, both in volume and weight. I increased the intensity in the 6th week and towards the end of the week started struggling again, so I took another week off. Returned again was ok for a few weeks until I thought I had normalised and increased intensity...mistake again...I started looking softer, the muscles felt spongy etc. So now...rather than stop start, I've decided to take a good two month break from the gym. The temptation is just too strong for me to push myself when I'm in the gym....the adrenaline and endorphin release prevent me from gauging the stress I'm putting on my body and I only realise in the evening when I can't sleep due to the increase in stress hormones. My adrenal system needs time to recover and it needs more than a few weeks.

You may be suffering from the same condition, albeit yours will not be as severe. I think you could do with a couple of weeks off and when you return not to go heavy or anywhere near failure and see how you feel at the end of the week.

Your symptoms seem classic low testosterone to cortisol ratio and it will take your body time to normalise and build up the resilience to cope with the stresses of an intense routine.
 
saggy321 said:
I'll post my thoughts based on my own recent experiences and research. I trained intensively on a five day on routine with HIT and followed a low carb and calories diet based upon' IF principles. After a month to six weeks I begin suffering from....

Tremors
Insomnia
Mood swings
Elevated resting heart rate (by 30%)
Fat gain despite massive calorie deficit
No interest in the gym

Eventually I had to take time off work and the gym. I rested for three weeks whilst increasing calories and vitamin B, C and magnesium consumption. After all my research, I was certain that I had adrenal insufficiency. I looked and felt better after a three week break from the gym. I restarted the gym at the beginning of the 4th week and didn't push myself at all, training at only 50% of my normal schedule, both in volume and weight. I increased the intensity in the 6th week and towards the end of the week started struggling again, so I took another week off. Returned again was ok for a few weeks until I thought I had normalised and increased intensity...mistake again...I started looking softer, the muscles felt spongy etc. So now...rather than stop start, I've decided to take a good two month break from the gym. The temptation is just too strong for me to push myself when I'm in the gym....the adrenaline and endorphin release prevent me from gauging the stress I'm putting on my body and I only realise in the evening when I can't sleep due to the increase in stress hormones. My adrenal system needs time to recover and it needs more than a few weeks.

You may be suffering from the same condition, albeit yours will not be as severe. I think you could do with a couple of weeks off and when you return not to go heavy or anywhere near failure and see how you feel at the end of the week.

Your symptoms seem classic low testosterone to cortisol ratio and it will take your body time to normalise and build up the resilience to cope with the stresses of an intense routine.
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Hey thanks so much for posting. My training has remained intense honesty for the past 5 years now. It is only as of 2012 that I hVe taken scheduled week offs and had worked out through flu, fevers, ligament/joint issues, etc.. I was 100x more OCD then than I am now.

I am the same with the intensity- my first week back I trained lighter, higher reps, and less sets.. But by the end of the week I was right back into full swing 5-7 sets, low rest, heavy weights, pounding cardio. My problem is I spend 2-2.5 hours sometimes 3 in the gym between cardio, abs, and weights.. 3-5 days. Some days will just do cardio for an hour, but even that "low intensity" is intense (4.5 mph/15 incline) But if I don't sweat I feel like I haven't worked out.

I would LOVE to yield better results with LESS training, it is diet related, the training is mental. Too much training+poor diet=bad physical and mental state.

I only fall asleep at exhaustion in the Earl AM hours. My school and work sched relives around this fact alone. All bc I need the energy to drone through the rigorous standards of workouts I have set forth. Raking a week off was a huge first step- 2 weeks or a month, or TWO... Would be like a preacher skipping chrich in my eyes! But hey, maybe I'll try it out when the time is right. Summer is not the time IMO.. Idk tho. I am trying to limit the stress of my training and eat more appropriately. I have started back on erase (pro) and after only 3 days I am beginning to lean out in my ONLY problem areas- chest/stomach. Which leads me to believe cortisol and estrogen/test are my issues. Too bad I can't get an endo to take me seriously.
 
Damn bro you should seriously look into getting help. When working out starts to effect your life like it is, thats not good. That type of sh*t will kill you man.
 
rsnake21 said:
Damn bro you should seriously look into getting help. When working out starts to effect your life like it is, thats not good. That type of sh*t will kill you man.
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Yea I know.. I'm working through it, it's tough bc it's summer and I thought I had a great cutting/peaking plan, it never happened so I'm pretty discouraged.. I never really down shifted during the winter months for some reason and now I have reached the intensity ceiling.. So its been harder to cut now.. Yaknow. That's why I'm really frustrated.
 
Review your diet plan, restructure your workouts and start over. Your body follows what you put your heart and mind into. If something doesnt work or it is making you feel discouraged, stop it, learn from it and move on.

The more discouraged you feel or let yourself become, the more your body will follow. Demotivation never helped anyone accomplish anything.

Think of it like the placebo effect, people train harder and get better results when they actively believe something is working for them when it may not be, because they think its working, they perform better. The opposite is true when you think negitively.

Chnage your plan, switch up your routine and try again
 
Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
 
wait wait wait... anyone who advises NOT to squat is a complete MORON not a genius. If you dont Squat, you might as well jazzercise.
 
chedapalooza said:
Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
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LOL jesus...this is some of the worst crap I've ever read. Invest your time in someone who isn't braindead.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
LOL jesus...this is some of the worst crap I've ever read. Invest your time in someone who isn't braindead.
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Clear PMs coop.
 
chedapalooza said:
Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
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lets pick this apart... squatting makes your ass bigger? hahaha nope.
Running kills muscle? hahhaha nope

endocrine secretion? ummmm bwahahahahahahaaaaa.

stop drinking the koolaid bro - your better than this.
 
chedapalooza said:
A lot of ppl thought this until he trained them and hot them in the best shape of their lives...
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This may be true, but the number one error I see on these boards are that people equate correlation to causation. This is another case in point. You need to be willing to question "how?" and "why?," not just "what?" Only then will you be able to fulfill the AM motto of "learn, teach, lead." Nom saiyan ;)
 
mr.cooper69 said:
This may be true, but the number one error I see on these boards are that people equate correlation to causation. This is another case in point. You need to be willing to question "how?" and "why?," not just "what?" Only then will you be able to fulfill the AM motto of "learn, teach, lead." Nom saiyan ;)
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What he taught, in my case, is dead on though. Classic over training and not emphasizing my strong points and hiding my weak points. I want the classic v taper. I don't want to and necerhace wanted to look like the mutated freaks of today's bb world. I want that classic elongated widened upper body with a small waist. I have used the 8x8 method by VG and it was some of the best aesthetic progress I'd ever made. I did it for 3 weeks, took a week off, and instead of resuming, I let my curiosity get the best of me and moved onto something else. Diet is still 85-90%. If you are lean, you can then shape and sculpt your body into whatever u want..
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Why would one NOT wantto look like this.. ?
 
Again, you are mistaking correlation for causation. 3 weeks on a new training scheme will never present in significant aesthetic changes in the manner you speak of. LBM accrual is not so rapid...neither is LBM loss. The reasoning behind the reality is always multifactorial and predominantly diet-related, though you may not notice it right now.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Not tough, just objective :). The intention is to simply educate you on the truth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
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Oh I know. I love traditional BBing. Believe me there is no greater satisfaction or sense of accomplishment to me than completing a grueling workout. I'm just frustrated bc for whatever reason (the point of this thread again) my current methods are not working.. Be it over training, poor diet, lack of sleep.. most likely a combination of everything.. I figured I'd try anything.. And again, had success, albeit short teerm, with the 8x8 system. I think at thus point I will ficus on dialing in the diet.. No carbs 3 days, then carbs, repeat. I will and have begin curtailing excessive cardio, and I will experiment with less ab work to see if swelling and protruding subsides.. I am set to start a program I've used with success for peaking on Monday.. Designed to emphasize Lats and delts width. I'd post it up but idk if I could take the potential beating I might get lol. Jk.
 
To be honest, and this is just being straight up, maybe try, at least temporarily, a 'normal' diet. The reason I say this is that it just seems like you havent got it all mapped out yet and are still trying to find yourself. Take a step back, and work from the ground up.

I incorporate ab work into most of my workouts annd 1 day where I completly hammer them. I never feel bloated.

Find a diet and workout that works, stick with it, dont change it every day or two because of something you read that may or may not be better, its better to make chnages slowly, experiment over two-three weeks and if its not working then switch it up.
 
Please stickie this thread fcuk sake.
This info is gold for many.

Coop, I feel like a turd throwing my ****e questions at you and bugging you. I do try not to take a dogmatic view that carbs are bad. They help with cortisol and repletion and taste good. I'm talking gluten free here and not oats either.

Camz, I know what your feeling. I make everything a bloody science experiment and.shouldnt have to.

Too y'all who listen and help.out, THANKS VERY VERY MUCH. Invaluable.........
 
Clemenza said:
Ched how long have you been training for?
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Since football At age 14- suffered anorexia age 16-18 (still trained but excessive and lost 100 pounds). then Since 18 for bulks n recomps to fix the damage. I'll be 24 in sept so 10 years.. But I guess i would say almost 6 if u cut out everything prior to losing 10" pounds of body mass. Talking muscle, fat, bone density, organ weight..
 
First and foremost, break up your training into more days with less gym time or just cut back overall. Serum testosterone levels will begin to fall around the 60-90 minute mark. If your issue is indeed test: cortisol issues you need to minimize the damage done in that regard. You don't need to be in the gym nearly that long to get things accomplished anyway.
 
tigerdb2 said:
First and foremost, break up your training into more days with less gym time or just cut back overall. Serum testosterone levels will begin to fall around the 60-90 minute mark. If your issue is indeed test: cortisol issues you need to minimize the damage done in that regard. You don't need to be in the gym nearly that long to get things accomplished anyway.
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Yea I just got soo busy that I figured id dedicate 3-4 days of intense training and that recovery would improve with more off time.. But obviously went overboard w gym time
 
I understand and It's hard for some to resist the urge to keep pounding away but the weight room is a great example of more not always being better. Aside from seeking out help from medical professionals and or time off, I would start by backing training down to a max of 2 hours and, ideally, 60-90 minutes. That's a rough starting point as you may need less with your potential issues, but baby steps are a good start.
 
tigerdb2 said:
I understand and It's hard for some to resist the urge to keep pounding away but the weight room is a great example of more not always being better. Aside from seeking out help from medical professionals and or time off, I would start by backing training down to a max of 2 hours and, ideally, 60-90 minutes. That's a rough starting point as you may need less with your potential issues, but baby steps are a good start.
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For sure. I believe the less is better and have for some time, which is a start .. Applying it is the tough part.. But when you physically can't as is happening now.. Your body forces you too.. As I've said.. Ready for making changes for the better! Really appreciate this forum and all the great guys and gals helping out.
 
Little update- started on a new workout and changed my diet up.. First n foremost- diet is now 4-6 days of keto followed by a carb inclusion day. I am eating only meats, fish, and animal fat, eggs, the like.. No veggies or salad or any carbs what so ever, aside from the 2g in my protein mix. Energy is great, as Is mood.. Leaning up literally ecerywhere except lower belly. Im not 18 anymore.. Im almost 24, I guess I should stop expecting 3 day results..

As for workouts. Hit the gym everyday so far this. Week. Max time was 2 hours, min was 1.2 hours. Including cardio and weights. Only did Abs once so far and literally just about 50 reps of various movements to get a deep burn. and will hold off another day or two before maybe hitting them again. Really trying to rely on the keto diet to shed bf.. My abs r big.. I probably built them too much over winter and that is why I have developed a bit of a protruding stomach. Even after 4 days of no AB work, they hardness was there, but the swollen ness seemed to be subsiding greatly.. Hopefully this keto thing will work out and I will ride it thru the summer
 
suprisingly, you do need a strong core to deadlift and squat correctly.
I dont do any direct abs anymore. Just squat and deadlift like a mo'fo and my waist has thickened and i have become so much stronger.

Glad your feeling better Cam, we all wanna help you. Keep it up and dont forget about time off and recovery!!!body grows and recouperates during recovery :)

peace
 
runner_79 said:
suprisingly, you do need a strong core to deadlift and squat correctly.
I dont do any direct abs anymore. Just squat and deadlift like a mo'fo and my waist has thickened and i have become so much stronger.

Glad your feeling better Cam, we all wanna help you. Keep it up and dont forget about time off and recovery!!!body grows and recouperates during recovery :)

peace
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I've been deadlifting once a week heavy with occasional/necessary deloads for literally 5 years straight.. Never stopped for more than an off week. I'm going to try n shake things up and cut deads out for a few weeks, see if i can't really shrink my waist and lower back.. It's all about creatine the illusion- wide upper body, tiny waist. Will continue dedicTed leg work.. But let's be honest- I workout to look good- if picking up a bar with 260 pounds on it isn't applicable to that goal... Why the hell would I continue to do it? Lol. Instead I'm doing hypers twice a week and reverse hypers twice a week. All body weight for these. If all goes well, I will stRt deading again at the end of aug. And also resume heavier ab workouts.
 
I haven't been on here in a while but I just read this entire thread and felt compelled to post.

My take on your problem is that you have issues with instant gratification and recurrent body image issues. Not being a dick here but actually speaking from personal experience.

My significant other suffered from severe bulimia years ago and was actually hospitalized for it. Intensive cognitive behavioral therapy helped her regain control over her thoughts and actions. She struggles with it every day but now has the tools to dominate her disorder and not the other way around. Consider something similar

As far as instant gratification goes, achieving your physique goals through working out, diet and recovery is a long term cumulative process. You change diets, routines and philosophies like some people change their underwear. Consistency is a big part of the equation. You never allow your body to reach a healthy equilibrium. While those "keto" diets can initialize a reduction in body fat, they are not a healthy, viable long term solution to reaching your goals. Eat healthy foods in healthy proportions and improvements will be inevitable. Macros and food choice homey!

Your muscles and brain depend on certain amounts of carb for proper functioning. Restricted carb diets impair cognitive functioning. By the way, I'm talking sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal, fibrous veggies here, not mountain dew or snickers bars.

Also, spending 2-3 hours in the gym is severely catabolic. I see that you're trying to cut back and that's good. I perform cardio AND strength training in under an hour. Diet and recovery is 80% of the equation. Don't kill yourself in the gym or you will become one big catabolic mess. Maybe if you were juicing and sleeping 10 hours a day with no job could you effectively recover from your workouts lol.

I could go on and on but to summarize, stop changing things so often and work on your personal/mental stuff. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter if you aren't "perfect"? I promise you nobody will be standing over your coffin when you're dead talking about that 'subcutaneous layer of water he just couldn't rid of' or your 'subpar V-taper'. Eat, drink, workout and be merry!
 
I agree with the above post, but I also see you taking such a ridiculous amount of different supplements. I think you should look more into your diet and not mess around with (i forget how many you listed 5, 6, 7?) that many supplements. Supplements are just to "supplement" your eating or if your taking them for recovery or sleep reasons that's just a big money game. Eat the right amounts fit to you, get enough sleep and you'll be better off instead of taking one of every supplement to aid in some sort of action for you. There is no magic pill.
 
chedapalooza said:
Little update- started on a new workout and changed my diet up.. First n foremost- diet is now 4-6 days of keto followed by a carb inclusion day. I am eating only meats, fish, and animal fat, eggs, the like.. No veggies or salad or any carbs what so ever, aside from the 2g in my protein mix. Energy is great, as Is mood.. Leaning up literally ecerywhere except lower belly. Im not 18 anymore.. Im almost 24, I guess I should stop expecting 3 day results..
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I have to post on this, this is EXTREMELY misguided. No vegetables? Vegetables contains lots of vitamins and minerals that play a huge part in important metabolic reactions (i.e. releasing energy from food), not to mention the other important stuff in there. Also, veges contain very small amounts of useable carbs (most of the carbs being from fiber which doesnt really supply much calories).

You seriously need to rethink this strategy. Your health will begin to decline rapidly (within a month no doubt). You could get serious deficiencies and things.
Lack of fiber could promote colon cancer as well as a multitude of other things..
 
eat your damn vegetables!
 
The no vegetables thing is 3-4 days, then carbs, repeat. I'm taking a multi, extra b, d, c, calcium, magnesium, desiccated liver, kelp, and digestive enzymes. Eating about a dozen eggs a day..
 
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Lots of material on this- just google maximum definition diet.. Its temporary, will begin a regular diet with veggies/low glyc carbs towards september.. I hear whAt yall r saying.. Just Trying this out.. So far it's all good.
 
Spinach, asparagus or broccoli added to a few meals every day will do your physique wonders. No matter WHAT your goal (cutting, bulking, etc.). Trust us dude!
 
Thixotrope said:
Spinach, asparagus or broccoli added to a few meals every day will do your physique wonders. No matter WHAT your goal (cutting, bulking, etc.). Trust us dude!
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I believe u and LOVE Those foods! Always have.. I'm just trying this for now bc for whatever reason, my usual cutting methods have not worked this year.
 
I agree with a lot of the above postings... (read: eat, drink, work out, be merry).

Either way, I'm not one to talk about a 100% diet but some people believe in low carbs & all
I believe in everything in moderation. Like the 40/30/30 diet & man u are leaner than A LOT of people. Also honestly I don't see how a person can stay fat or become fat if all they ate were slow carbs, chicken breast, veggies, fruits, nuts & drank water.... Unless cals were crazy high...

Enjoy yourself overall Cheeda and you'll find what works.
 
AaronJP1 said:
I agree with a lot of the above postings... (read: eat, drink, work out, be merry).

Either way, I'm not one to talk about a 100% diet but some people believe in low carbs & all
I believe in everything in moderation. Like the 40/30/30 diet & man u are leaner than A LOT of people. Also honestly I don't see how a person can stay fat or become fat if all they ate were slow carbs, chicken breast, veggies, fruits, nuts & drank water.... Unless cals were crazy high...

Enjoy yourself overall Cheeda and you'll find what works.
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while lifting 3-5 days a week (depending on time of year) and doing combo of hiit and low intensity cardio.. Idk either.. Feel like we r beating a dead horse now lol. I mean yea my avi is lean as fugg but I am not that right now at all. Don't matter too much anymore lol. "it is what it is"
 
chedapalooza said:
while lifting 3-5 days a week (depending on time of year) and doing combo of hiit and low intensity cardio.. Idk either.. Feel like we r beating a dead horse now lol. I mean yea my avi is lean as fugg but I am not that right now at all. Don't matter too much anymore lol. "it is what it is"
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Have you considered that maybe your body is retaining the calories for a reason? For example, eating well below a healthy deficit will promote weight loss, but also will force your body to store more calories during refeeds and things, this is a survival response. The best way is to reduce calories to something like <500kcals of maintainence and KEEP this throughout a cut (keeping in mind that as you drop mass, you will also have to adjust macro intake in proportion to mass lost so that you maintain a 500kcal deficit).
 
Jiigzz said:
Have you considered that maybe your body is retaining the calories for a reason? For example, eating well below a healthy deficit will promote weight loss, but also will force your body to store more calories during refeeds and things, this is a survival response. The best way is to reduce calories to something like <500kcals of maintainence and KEEP this throughout a cut (keeping in mind that as you drop mass, you will also have to adjust macro intake in proportion to mass lost so that you maintain a 500kcal deficit).
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Very true.. Upon reflecting, during my most successful cuts, I was eating much more balanced. Also important to note is during off peak season (winter months) I gained about 15 pounds and reduced my cardio and workout intensity.. This year, I only gained about 5 pounds and kept my intensity very high thru the winter.. Hence why my 'cutting techniques' aren't working- more simply- there is no roomto increase intensity or decrease cals! It's all big mindfcuk. If it wasn't summer I'd say f it and be eating much more soundly and reduce my intensity to give my body the needed equilibrium. But at this point I'm in too deep. And will make the best of the summer.. Yes, Its 95% mental and I probably think I'm worse off Than I am, aesthetically.. Idk where I'm going with this lol
 
Just snapped these quick today.. After one full week of keto- wasn't planning on posting them, were more as a self check- but now just thought it might help everyone see where im at
Disnt think to do arms. Was flaring lats not flexing mid back.. Front shot is no flex or anything

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Carb up on Sunday went great- minor gi issues but nothing unbearable.. Was pretty backed up on the 5th day of keto.. Had a lot of fiber one cereal and Ezekiel flax cereal along with some raisins and bananas. Had a sushi/Chinese dinner (restaurant not takeout) high quality.. Some Briwn rice with the meal and my gf's leftover rolls (4 pieces) with white rice. Woke up with no bloating/no noticeable water retention- had a ton of gym energy. Resumed keto today. Looking Nd feeling pretty good with reduced cardio and abdominal work, faster paced workouts, and removing of heavy dead lifts.. Did single leg BB deads today for reps 12 each leg with 30 seconds rest after both legs were done for 2 sets. Then banged out two sets of 12 or hypers. (as opposed to 5-7 heavy sets of bb deads) I dis front squats in the hack machine last week And liked the feel, will do those again on leg day. About all for now..
 
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