Exactly how toxic are methyl PHs

[HondaV65]

Much good stuff, which to save room I won't quote.

I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread. My position on cholesterol is - I live my life without worrying about cholesterol, because, from what I've studied on it - I do not think scientists have enough data to conclude that cholesterol is bad.

Now ... I "say" I should not have posted - because, it's also been a position of mine, not to try to convince others that the cholesterol scare is overblown - though I'm almost certain it is. I'm certain enough to bet my life on it - but, it's not right for me bet the lives of others. Everyone needs to do their own research on the dangers of cholesterol (or lack of them). Everyone needs to make up their own mind.

For me ... the decision was easy. I'm 49 and, at my age, I see a lot of my friends going into the doctor and coming out with prescriptions for statin drugs. Some of these drugs are very hard on the body. A friend of mine, a triathlete, can no longer perform well in his chosen sport due to the effects of the statin drugs prescribed by his doctor for his high cholesterol. He's now going against his doc's advice, and is seeing a "alternate medicine" doctor to wean himself off the statins because he wants to live the life he loves and compete again.

I'm constantly being taken back to one thing ...

And that is the fact that the human genome, pretty much as it exists today, was developed in prehistoric times via an evolutionary process. Cro-Magnon man evolved based on the environmental conditions at that time. Cro-Magnon man's evolution wasn't influenced by "jell-o pudding" because jell-o wasn't around back then. Cro-Magnon evolved to survive off what was available at the time.

Those early men didn't eat eight servings of vegetables a day - because in many parts of the world it just wasn't available. When winter came, Cro-Magnon couldn't open his freezer and grab a pack of "birdseye" frozen veggies ... because, there were no freezers back then, and no "birdseye".

Cro-Magnon survived, primarily - off hunting and fishing and eating flesh. He ate a lot of red meat and stuff the Doctors tell you to stay away from today.

I'm reminded of a study performed in the 1930's by an American dentist ... where he studied many native American tribesmen in Alaska (Eskimos ... Athabaskans). This doctor found that the healthiest of these natives were the ones who still survived on a primitive diet. With the natives that adopted western eating habits - lots of medical problems resulted. He observed primitive Eskimos stripping blubber off a killed whale and dividing it up between the villagers. These Eskimos munched on that whale fat all the time - and were healthy as horses! I've never had a doctor who could explain that to me ... why it's so good for the Eskimos, but bad for me. Normally they say something like "Well Eskimos are genetically different." Really? So different genetically that what you tell me is POISON to my system is "manna from heaven" to theirs? Please, I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. "Okay well - the Eskimos ate a lot of fish ... and the associated healthy oils". Really? That's a very good argument for eating more fish oil - but hardly one for cutting back on fat to reduce cholesterol.

Like I said - everyone has to make up his own decision. Hell, I may go to sleep tonight and die from a heart attack.

But I don't think I will.

 

[HondaV65]

One more post on this ...

Most of my brothers are on statin drugs. My dad is on statin drugs. However, they all lead sedentary lifestyles. Well, I say that but they aren't couch potatoes - they are hard working active people but they don't work out and they don't do cardio. All of them tried to moderate their cholesterol before going on the statins by changing their diets and doing some moderate exercise - but they failed and ended up on the statins.

I'm not on the statins. Then again ... I lift hard and heavy five days a week in the gym and, I do 45 mins of cardio at least five days a week. i've been doing that for a long time.

I also eat, at least eight eggs a day and sometimes 12. I eat steak almost every night - ribeye, and I gobble down the fat without trimming it. I eat a lot of fatty nuts and consume 12 grams of fish oil a day. I drink WHOLE milk, a glass virtually every time I eat. Most days I don't eat any veggies - unless I crave them. Fruits - I crave a lot, so I eat them but, by no means, a huge quantity of them.

I have the best cholesterol in my family. 185 ... with LDL at 122 - which the doc says is too high because it should only be 99 or less. Whatever dude - the last time I talked to a doc about cholesterol I was 240 total cholesterol and the doc told me to get it below 200. I was living a sedentary life then. Well, now I'm below 200 - by a good measure and it's still not good enough because the scientists have changed the "goal posts" and placed them farther down the field by limiting LDL to 99.

I'm not chasing that - these guys don't have a clue (in my opinion). I see that not only with this ... but with the studies on veggies too. I have also been qualified CPR for over 30 years and every year I go in for refresher training - they change the CPR procedure because they found out that by doing "this" they were killing people and by doing "that" they could save more people. It makes me wonder if anyone in medical practice really understands how the human body works.

 

[BBB]

Most doctors only know what they are taught in school. Once they start practicing medicine they are too busy to do any further research. The drug companies have a huge influence on what is being taught in the medical community. Since statins are one of the most profitable drugs in the world, doctors are taught that cholesterol must be controlled via statins. Moreover, after nearly three decades of use there is no scientific evidence that statins increase longivity or reduce the frequency of cardiovascular problems yet the drugs companies continue to suggest lower and lower levels of cholesterol. When I first had my cholesterol tested more than thirty years ago anything below 280 was considered acceptable. Mine was 287 at the time and my doctor said it was fine. Nowadays he thinks I need to be on statins.

 

[ZiR RED]

A couple things.

With regard to evolution, cro-magnum DID eat a lot of vegetables during the season. They were also very adept at preserving food - drying vegetables and meats, and in areas closer to the glacier, were actually able to dig down to the permafrost and have a freezer during the summer and winter.

With regards to what you eat...

Dietary cholesterol and most animal fat has a minimal effects on plasma cholesterol levels. The mainstream is finally starting to catch on, but not fast enough.

And I agree, statins are terrible.

Br

 

[EasyEJL]

Any evolutionary argument is hogwash anyhow. Evolution does not tune for optimal performance or lifespan of the individual , but for species survival.

 

[AaronJP1]

I think that can be done safely. any higher than 10mg for 6 weeks is asking for trouble, imo.

How would DMZ compare to superdrol same thing?


It is scary stuff. That's why I turned to TUDCA, hoping all is well with that.

 

[soontobbeast]

Most doctors only know what they are taught in school. Once they start practicing medicine they are too busy to do any further research. The drug companies have a huge influence on what is being taught in the medical community. Since statins are one of the most profitable drugs in the world, doctors are taught that cholesterol must be controlled via statins. Moreover, after nearly three decades of use there is no scientific evidence that statins increase longivity or reduce the frequency of cardiovascular problems yet the drugs companies continue to suggest lower and lower levels of cholesterol. When I first had my cholesterol tested more than thirty years ago anything below 280 was considered acceptable. Mine was 287 at the time and my doctor said it was fine. Nowadays he thinks I need to be on statins.

You're mistaken.


doctors are required to have continuing education hours logged to maintain their license. they know more than 'what they are taught in school'.

 

[fueledpassion]

Yeah, doctors will have to continue education now that the internet is born. Think about it...the same stuff that they had in school is now relatively accessible to just about anyone (at least in developed countries). Looking at the big picture, if a doctor still wants us to pay him for his expertise, then he better stay ahead of the general population in regards to current alternative initiatives in various fields of medicine.


Plus, looking ahead at the Millennial generation (about 1980-2000), we're on track to being the most educated bunch to date. We're being exposed to information at an astoundingly higher rate than our predecessors due to technology advancements. I think all doctors at clinics and hospitals should be paid in part for researching, much like a Stanford University doctor. But, because the medical industry has horrible management and processes, doctors aren't able to take out an impacting amount of study time to new ideas, research and development of various medicines, practices, procedures, etc. That leads me to my last point, lol. I think Suppy Chain Majors (like myself) should be the hospital managers since we understand how to add value to every process.

 

[Rodja]

You're mistaken.


doctors are required to have continuing education hours logged to maintain their license. they know more than 'what they are taught in school'.

The prevalence of statin prescriptions suggests that they're not getting the current information.

 

[ZiR RED]

Plus, looking ahead at the Millennial generation (about 1980-2000), we're on track to being the most educated bunch to date. We're being exposed to information at an astoundingly higher rate than our predecessors due to technology advancements. I think all doctors at clinics and hospitals should be paid in part for researching, much like a Stanford University doctor. But, because the medical industry has horrible management and processes, doctors aren't able to take out an impacting amount of study time to new ideas, research and development of various medicines, practices, procedures, etc. That leads me to my last point, lol. I think Suppy Chain Majors (like myself) should be the hospital managers since we understand how to add value to every process.

The big problem with this issue, however, is that this generation (for the most part) has not been trained to think critically or evaluate information or research. We take things at face value without analyzing the source or the information.

Br

 

[ZiR RED]

The prevalence of statin prescriptions suggests that they're not getting the current information.

Thus we see the influence of pharma sales and even worse, the influence of big pharma on research and publication:

You might like this video, the corruption of medical research:

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Br

 

[fueledpassion]

The big problem with this issue, however, is that this generation (for the most part) has not been trained to think critically or evaluate information or research. We take things at face value without analyzing the source or the information.

Br

Touche. The most pathetic thing about my generation is the inability to solve problems from ground zero. You can watch current highschoolers and college students now at solving problems...they dont know where to start because they dont understand the concept of building an illustration that reflects the problem to be solved. You see it in English and Communications, where students fail to use outlines BEFORE starting the paper, u see it in Math where students try to solve everything in their head instead of writing down the problem or data first and u see it in Physic where students fail to write out a picture reflecting the forces involved...geeze...thats the golden rule to Supply Chain Management - critical thinking in the form of problem solving skills. I digress.

 

[threeFs]

1. Your body needs cholesterol for many things including hormone production
2. Cholesterol you eat has very little effect on blood cholesterol
3. Cholesterol is created with an excess of insulin which is caused by an excess intake of carbohydrate. Lower Carb intake, decrease blood cholesterol. No statins necessary.
Sources available upon request.

 

[ZiR RED]

1. Your body needs cholesterol for many things including hormone production
2. Cholesterol you eat has very little effect on blood cholesterol
3. Cholesterol is created with an excess of insulin which is caused by an excess intake of carbohydrate. Lower Carb intake, decrease blood cholesterol. No statins necessary.
Sources available upon request.

This is pretty spot on, especially for people who don't have fatty liver syndrome. For those with NAFLD, you might actually see cholesterol levels elevate during the first part of a nutrition/exercise intervention as the liver clears out all the lipids stored in it.

This is a pretty well wrote article refuting all the epidemiological studies linking red meat/sat fat to heart disease. Correlation is NOT causation

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Br

 

[JudoJosh]

You all overlooked this very important point.

First, is altered lipids due to the the hormone it self, or due to the hormones effects on the liver.

I am pretty sure it is from the androgens

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I believe this is pretty well understood but whats less clear, is what is the significance of this lowered HDL effect.

 

[ZiR RED]

I am pretty sure it is from the androgens

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I believe this is pretty well understood but whats less clear, is what is the significance of this lowered HDL effect.

Yes, androgens affect HDL, but do the methylated ones have a greater effect because of the strain placed on the liver. The study does not discriminate between drugs, and in the methods it says: A variety of drugs were used by this group, the principal ones being testosterone cypionate (200-800 mg/week) and methandrostenolone (D-bol: 25-150 mg/week).

I'm sure the combination of increased androgen, increased liver enzymes, and (in many) decreased E2 via anti-aromatase all have a negative impact.. my critical old ass just wants to disseminate between them all

Br

 

[JudoJosh]

Yes, androgens affect HDL, but do the methylated ones have a greater effect because of the strain placed on the liver. The study does not discriminate between drugs, and in the methods it says: A variety of drugs were used by this group, the principal ones being testosterone cypionate (200-800 mg/week) and methandrostenolone (D-bol: 25-150 mg/week).

I'm sure the combination of increased androgen, increased liver enzymes, and (in many) decreased E2 via anti-aromatase all have a negative impact.. my critical old ass just wants to disseminate between them all

Br

Oh I see now what your question is. Initially I thought you were questioning androgens effects on lipids (which is why I said it was pretty well understood) but I see now you are questioning if methylated androgens have a greater effect than other androgens.

Good question as I never even questioned it myself and have always just accepted it as fact. Now I am curious as well...