DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

[Force of Green]

Where did they say speed was in the product? Also this isnt the FDA, this is the same guy that sued usplabs.

You're right. Not directly 'speed' persay, but it's analogs. With street names being so ambiguous, it's hard to tell what some are talking about just by going by the lingo. GHB is sometimes called 'cherry meth'. Methamphetamine is sometimes called 'ice', though true 'ice' is methyl-4-aminorex. Amphetamine is also dubbed speed, and if it is an analog it really only has to differ by merely a single group. Kinda like some steroids that are available now that are pretty much the same thing as the real McCoy that they are even comparing themselves to in write-ups... some designers are weaker, some are stronger, but the effects are similar.

 

[southpaw23]

Did I say that it was scientifically definitive? I was stating an observation, like I said 'at a glance'. You ever glance at woman (or man, whatever) and draw comparisons in your mind about their features and who they resemble, etc? T-Bone said he saw this coming months ago. Did I get angry and say something like, "oooh! look at the board psychic!" Come on, pal.

Yeah, I once "glanced" at a woman and swore I was looking at Morgan Freeman.

 

[Geoforce]

It's kind of weird this going back and quoting posts from way back in the thread...we have already covered the absurdity of them "faking" this.

 

[Force of Green]

Since when does your master sarge = lawyer? You must have been in two different wars than I.

Let's not harp on the lawyers.. trust me.. you will need one some day. It is the people that use the lawyers in a scavy way.

Some defense lawyers will get unlawful charges dismissed against a given defendant and save him/her from prison, some will let a kiddie rapist run back to the playground. Some prosecutors will put a cold blooded killer on death row, some will put an innocent man or woman behind bars for the remainder of their lives. I guess it all evens out. It's all how they present their information (albeit true or false).

 

[Force of Green]

Yeah, I once "glanced" at a woman and swore I was looking at Morgan Freeman.

Haha. Did she as nice of a voice as Morgan Freeman?

 

[Force of Green]

It's kind of weird this going back and quoting posts from way back in the thread...we have already covered the absurdity of them "faking" this.

I'm not even discussing the opinion of whether or not it was faked. There are a lot of threads in the forum and I'm merely asking questions or responding to certain comments within the rules and regulations of the website. Where did I say anything of the sort about DS faking this? Threads are open to debates and just because I didn't catch this thread (of the hundreds of new threads) on time, it doesn't mean I can't partake in the discussion.

 

[Force of Green]

Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

Why aren't they?

People in different countries where certain things are legal and/or less controlled have a different lifestyle altogether. I love the statement: "Let's legalize everything!" I used to think that (coincidentally it was back when I was doing coke, GHB, ketamine, and X), but what do you think would happen?
Would the economy be stimulated? Maybe? But when the people who own the businesses can suddenly use addictive substances and get hooked on a habit of two 8-balls of dope a day, they might go out of business when they are in a 90 day program.
We live in a very black and white country. I love America and there are things to be improved, sure. But in a place where we are not taught to moderate, how can one expect moderation when all the moderators are gone by the wayside?

 

[Force of Green]

You're kidding right ... what planet have you been on?

Dimmocrits are just as guilty. Big Pharma? It was your boy "Big O" who cut a multi-million dollar deal with them to go along with the passage of ObamaCare - google it. Who is it that's forcing healthy people to buy health insurance - and then outlawing the only kind of insurance that makes economical sense to those people (major medical) ... oh that's right - it's the Dimmocrits.

Who was it that advocated for the VChip in Televisions? Oh right - that was AlGore and the Dims. Who's the ones trying to tell you what kind of car you should buy? Oh right - Dims are. Who are the ones outlawing transfats in California? Hint - it's not Republicans. Who's the ones proposing taxes on sugary sodas? Hint - it's not Republicans.

Bottom line here is BOTH political parties are pieces of **** and both are to blame. The fact that you blame one means you're drinking the kool aide - well, enjoy it until your chosen party bans it brother!

Case in point. Both political parties are pieces of crap. Go to hell you MFers who like either party and who aren't with me and my beliefs. Yada, yada, yada. Anarchy in the USA! And we can all eat fried pink slime on Ezekiel bread. JK.

There are faults with anyone and everyone. Therefore there are faults with every group and ANY group. Everything has become so right and left that many Americans have gotten so sick of voting, we just sit on our ass and wait for a miracle.

 

[Force of Green]

I've gone through a few tubs of it and not once have I experienced any "euphoria" either. All I get from it is an increased focus on my workouts.

Everyone's brain chemistry is different. For those prone to certain chemical imbalances that may result in a given, categorized psychological ailment might get therapeudic effects. Adderal isn't prescribed to kids to make them euphoric or manic, it's prescribed to (as you say as well) "increase focus". Euphoria is a common side effect. Common, but not 100%.

 

[Force of Green]

The same compound found in AX SuperSize, supposedly.

I hope AX doesn't have to change names again. I can't keep up with them anymore.

 

[jobless]

Im in no position to make any opinions on the info in the "chain of emails" as i dont know what the chem's are or what there talking about really but what i can say it sounds like there basically bargaining for the best deal and by all the "will see" comments it didn't really seem like they knew what they were doing or that they had a product evan "designed" seems to me like they put there feelers out there to see what they cld get, tryd it and when they got something that they thought worked for a price they were willing to pay they produced it. dosent seem too legit or professional to me. this is sure leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Force of Green]

Not to split hairs here, but if you knew you were getting drugged tested I probably would of avoided all stims just for a risk of getting flagged.

Some chemicals have long half lives and therefore to play it 'real safe' would you discontinue your trusted, legal, retail stimulant (maybe your cutting?) or pre-workout for a couple weeks? Should you REALLY have to say to yourself something like, "Gee, a drug test is coming up. I better stop taking my NO Xplode"? Most drug tests are at random anyways, so... the scheduled testing doesn't apply to everyone.

 

[Force of Green]

I think it converts to methamphetamine and amphetamine slightly? all I could really find from blue light.

nvm

This chems effects kinda remind me of propylhexedrine. Just get a Benzedrex inhaler, and parachute the cotton strip. It's effects are similar to methamphetamine or an old street drug called 'Glow'.

 

[AutoKal47]

I said i think its not effective or dangerous

i wouldnt expect the second compound to be any different

you need alpha methyl for activity, beta methyl is not gonna do much

Thanks Patrick

 

[Force of Green]

Hey Patrick
so if I got it right, n-benzyl-2-pea is in Craze (?) and is not listed in the ingredients?
Would this be the issue? I mean, let's say DS listed it in the label, would everything be ok then?
Or the ingredient is banned/dangerous?

And the reason for something like this would be? Somehow try to keep the formula secret?
Mine is just curiosity and thank you in advance for replying

Didn't you say that you don't care what's in the product?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The baking soda wouldn't seperate and the Craze didn't crystalize.

i will pm u my "craze e crack" recipe

 

[Force of Green]

it likely is not

however there are a million non-dshea ingredients being sold in fat loss products openly and without consequence. Just read an ingredient label on one of those vpx products

Meltdown was great after I got out of rehab for meth. Then I stopped Meltdown and had a short relapse

 

[Force of Green]

i will pm u my "craze e crack" recipe

Thanks. I have a batch of banana rinds in the oven right now to help me keep posting. haha

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Haha. Did she as nice of a voice as Morgan Freeman?

he does have a nice voice

 

[Patrick Arnold]

People in different countries where certain things are legal and/or less controlled have a different lifestyle altogether. I love the statement: "Let's legalize everything!" I used to think that (coincidentally it was back when I was doing coke, GHB, ketamine, and X), but what do you think would happen?
Would the economy be stimulated? Maybe? But when the people who own the businesses can suddenly use addictive substances and get hooked on a habit of two 8-balls of dope a day, they might go out of business when they are in a 90 day program.
We live in a very black and white country. I love America and there are things to be improved, sure. But in a place where we are not taught to moderate, how can one expect moderation when all the moderators are gone by the wayside?

that is an interesting point. u cant compare usa to other countries which have established a culture and behavior that has allowed legalized drugs to exist without chaos. Since we have existed under this prohibition for so long there could be (at least temporarily) a societal crisis upon sudden legalization

europeans had millenia of alcohol consumption in their cultures. when we introduced booze to the native americans it was completely new to them and it really did a number on them. Of course some of this may be due to genetic differences in alcohol metabolism between the two cultures (europeans having some selective evolution for alcohol tolerance compared to the native americans)

 

[LiveToLift]

This guy needs to put the craze down, wow...

 

[Geoforce]

I'm not even discussing the opinion of whether or not it was faked. There are a lot of threads in the forum and I'm merely asking questions or responding to certain comments within the rules and regulations of the website. Where did I say anything of the sort about DS faking this? Threads are open to debates and just because I didn't catch this thread (of the hundreds of new threads) on time, it doesn't mean I can't partake in the discussion.

Then I'm a little confused as to why you quoted my post on if they would "fake" the lawsuit. Although perhaps you made a mistake as your reply to my quoted post didn't really go with it.

And of course you're entitled to do what you want, but responding to countless comments (some that are weeks old) in order of post after post tends to clutter the "order" of the thread. Just my .02 though and won't comment further on the upping of the post count

 

[Force of Green]

What are your thoughts? To care or not to care?

I don't care what's in it, I'm at my third tub straight and I've never felt better
and most important I've never had workouts like these..
And then, wtf is going on?? FDA, MHRA, what are they gonna ban next? Freakin' CHICKEN??
Don't they have more important things to b#tch about??

While I'm interested in knowing if that's the case out of curiosity AND because
I want to know what i'm taking, how many things we take that are not healthy?
I'm with shouthpaw here, I like the product and it makes my training (and consequently, life)
better, does it have side effects? Ok, I'd be interested in knowing them then, but most likely
I'd keep using it unless there's proof that is gonna kill me in 2 years or so..

Do I care if the product is damaging other companies sales? Hell no I couldn't care less

Do I care if the product is better than the rest because of a specific ingredient and that
ingredient happens to be "outlaw" but only because of some market technicality, bureaucracy
or whatever supplements regulation that has nothing to do with consumer safeness? No way.

Is this a selfish behavior? Sure it is, I care about me not sups companies
The people who's trying to take craze off the market are much worse, at least I take my product
and that's the end of it, they are actually trying to take away the *option* for me to use it or not.
Screw that

Just curious.

 

[AutoKal47]

Didn't you say that you don't care what's in the product?

Dude, if you want to quote/reply to someone you should really take the time (which you obviously have)
to read ALL the posts each member you want to reply to instead of picking random lines which have already been
commented and/or explained. Seriously.

 

[AutoKal47]

What are your thoughts? To care or not to care?

Just curious.

And I'm just curious, this is a pretty interesting thread,
are you planning on keep adding trash posts for long?

If you want to go into details about what my thoughts about the world of supplements
and how I interact with them, you can write me a PM instead, alrite?
Otherwise, like I said, read all the posts, the concept ain't hard to get

 

[Force of Green]

Then I'm a little confused as to why you quoted my post on if they would "fake" the lawsuit. Although perhaps you made a mistake as your reply to my quoted post didn't really go with it.

And of course you're entitled to do what you want, but responding to countless comments (some that are weeks old) in order of post after post tends to clutter the "order" of the thread. Just my .02 though and won't comment further on the upping of the post count

I was making a reference to the parallels of how a company or an individual can make one screw-up, mistake, whatever, etc. after a good track record and in the end people will usually remember the screw-ups. Yes, Michael Jackson was a great dancer, singer, etc. but the first things that pop into many's minds are 'plastic surgery... dangling a baby from a balcony... 'vitiligo'... etc). Michael Richards? The 'N' word. Whitney Houston? Aye it's a shame.

One's name, one's category, one's brand, etc. are constituents of one's legacy. Something stupid like this could end one's legacy. Wonder why you scratched your head and said "Superdrol? Driven Sports?" They reinvented/reincarnated into a new brand, new lineup, new legacy.

 

[Daycrawler]

I was making a reference to the parallels of how a company or an individual can make one screw-up, mistake, whatever, etc. after a good track record and in the end people will usually remember the screw-ups. Yes, Michael Jackson was a great dancer, singer, etc. but the first things that pop into many's minds are 'plastic surgery... dangling a baby from a balcony... 'vitiligo'... etc). Michael Richards? The 'N' word. Whitney Houston? Aye it's a shame.

One's name, one's category, one's brand, etc. are constituents of one's legacy. Something stupid like this could end one's legacy. Wonder why you scratched your head and said "Superdrol? Driven Sports?" They reinvented/reincarnated into a new brand, new lineup, new legacy.

People mostly remember the screwups because individuals like yourself continue to bring them up.

Must suck to never let anyone make up for their screwup....

Perhaps if you focused less on the screwups then so would other people?

 

[Force of Green]

u cant live your life being afraid of ridicule. if you have something to say then say it

True.

 

[Force of Green]

People mostly remember the screwups because individuals like yourself continue to bring them up.

Must suck to never let anyone make up for their screwup....

Perhaps if you focused less on the screwups then so would other people?

This is the first time I brought up anything of the sort, Daycrawler. I was using examples of such individuals who have been very successful and have changed lives, but unfortunately it's human nature (generally) to remember things like that, that are tagged to their reputation. I don't have the best reputation. Oh well.

 

[Force of Green]

People mostly remember the screwups because individuals like yourself continue to bring them up.

Must suck to never let anyone make up for their screwup....

Perhaps if you focused less on the screwups then so would other people?

PM sent

Also...
I try to word things very carefully. I was making a general statement about certain individuals whom I have a lot of respect for (and respect for DS for what I've tried of their products) and how MOST of the time their mistakes that are made public are tagged to them. If anyone knows this it's me. I have more skeletons and demons than Halloween. I've had my share of screw-ups that I get reminded of on a weekly basis. I've done gay porn, I've escorted, I've done drugs from A-Z, I've said a lot of things out of anger, I've hurt people (emotionally) who have done nothing but show me kindness, I disgraced my best friend (at the time), etc. I live with it and try to make ammense to those I hurt. Of anyone here, I have NO right to judge anyone.

You know what? I have nothing better to do and I felt like replying to some things in a thread that I regret I was late for. I was living elsewhere and didn't have internet access and probably was too depressed at the time to post anyway. I lost my home and ended up moving in with a friend out in the boondocks and I am stuck inside and am a bit stir crazy and I have the internet at my disposal. I usually like interacting with the AM board members, but after my rapid-fire post in the same thread I guess that the majority of people are just pissed off with me.

I apologize.

The one thing I take offense to is the statement that you made of me focusing on screwups of other people, derrived from the statement I made about the unfortunate nature of popular thought process. Turn on the news. What do you see? Murder, rape, bankruptcy, poor economical crises, etc. and then at the very end they show a 30 second clip of a dog that rescued a kid in a fire.

Anyhow, for those who I offended. I apologize. Daycrawler, go %&#@ yourself.

 

[Daycrawler]

PM sent

Also...
I try to word things very carefully. I was making a general statement about certain individuals whom I have a lot of respect for (and respect for DS for what I've tried of their products) and how MOST of the time their mistakes that are made public are tagged to them. If anyone knows this it's me. I have more skeletons and demons than Halloween. I've had my share of screw-ups that I get reminded of on a weekly basis. I've done gay porn, I've escorted, I've done drugs from A-Z, I've said a lot of things out of anger, I've hurt people (emotionally) who have done nothing but show me kindness, I disgraced my best friend (at the time), etc. I live with it and try to make ammense to those I hurt. Of anyone here, I have NO right to judge anyone.

You know what? I have nothing better to do and I felt like replying to some things in a thread that I regret I was late for. I was living elsewhere and didn't have internet access and probably was too depressed at the time to post anyway. I lost my home and ended up moving in with a friend out in the boondocks and I am stuck inside and am a bit stir crazy and I have the internet at my disposal. I usually like interacting with the AM board members, but after my rapid-fire post in the same thread I guess that the majority of people are just pissed off with me.

I apologize.

The one thing I take offense to is the statement that you made of me focusing on screwups of other people, derrived from the statement I made about the unfortunate nature of popular thought process. Turn on the news. What do you see? Murder, rape, bankruptcy, poor economical crises, etc. and then at the very end they show a 30 second clip of a dog that rescued a kid in a fire.

Anyhow, for those who I offended. I apologize. Daycrawler, go %&#@ yourself.

The internet is serious business.

 

[DHT420]

lots of stuff is on labels cuz people think they work, but they really dont. they look nice on labels though

Absolutely. But it's a lot cheaper to simply derive a ****amamie name for phenylethylamine and slap it on the label, than to do the following:

1. Ask for the synthesis of a novel phenylethylamine.
2. Go through extensive QA to ensure purity.
3. Go through human testing to ensure efficacy.

NOW, assuming its a totally mild stimulant, then at this point they

4. Approved it for use in a major product, paying more for it's synthesis than other common phenylethylamines, even though it has few
beneficial effects on the formula.
5. Kept using it.

All that, just to have a name on a label? Yeah, and AX only purchased 2-Diphenylmethylpyrrolidine so they could stick "proline analog" on their labels, because they knew how impressed we would all be.

EDIT: It's amazing how much this mirrors the Slim Xtreme debacle from a few years back. Anyone here still believe it was "Aneurin DBE" that was causing 12 hours of euphoric focus and, later on, stimulant psychosis?

 

[Iron_Will]

I feel guilty for taking it. I was always anti drug type guy. I thought it was just some nootropics and caffeine. If it was meth, i feel like i cheated myself, as i dont do drugs at all.

 

[DHT420]

I feel guilty for taking it. I was always anti drug type guy. I thought it was just some nootropics and caffeine. If it was meth, i feel like i cheated myself, as i dont do drugs at all.

So how did you cheat yourself? What do you define as drugs? Caffeine and nootropics aren't drugs, but meth is? You've used Craze, experienced it both it's upsides and downfalls, but when you hear the ingredient profile might be different than what you assumed, there's suddenly a moral and ethical problem with you using it? Are chemicals good and evil? I don't understand.

The issue here isn't "is Craze effective?" or "is Craze bad?", it's "is Craze using synthetic substances but claiming to use natural extracts?" and "does Craze contain phenylethylamine derivatives similar enough to amphetamine to be prosecuted?"

 

[Force of Green]

So how did you cheat yourself? What do you define as drugs? Caffeine and nootropics aren't drugs, but meth is? You've used Craze, experienced it both it's upsides and downfalls, but when you hear the ingredient profile might be different than what you assumed, there's suddenly a moral and ethical problem with you using it? Are chemicals good and evil? I don't understand.

The issue here isn't "is Craze effective?" or "is Craze bad?", it's "is Craze using synthetic substances but claiming to use natural extracts?" and "does Craze contain phenylethylamine derivatives similar enough to amphetamine to be prosecuted?"

I think he means something like "I wanted caffeine and piracetam (or whatever), but I got something that could be an illicit substance." Though it's not conclusive and not the end of the world. If it makes you feel better, sell or give the rest away and call it a day.

 

[D3Baseball]

Pat, you still based in Seymour?

 

[madchemist]

Most CNS stimulats cause neurotoxicity through oxidation reactions.

 

[Gutterpump]

Testament to why sourcing your own bulk powders (raws) and making your own custom caps, etc = far superior.

I have spoken to people from the supplement industry, who no longer work in the supplement industry, and this is what they personally do. Only way to trust that you're getting a correct dose, and the correct ingredients, plus it's far far more cost effective.

These people who used to work in the industry and support it heavily, couldn't have enough bad / shady things to say about what goes on. In retrospect, I can't believe I used to be such a supplement junkie. Glad that's in the past. There are a few staples I use and companies I trust, however.

 

[996ttelise]

I'd love to hear Patrick's opinion on the ingredients mentioned in that post, regardless if those mails are legit or not,just out of curiosity, or better, some sort of "worst-case scenario", like, if they are in craze what possible side fx/consequences we would be looking at?I know you said n-benzyl-2-phenylethylamine is ineffective/not dangerous (if I got it right),there there would be the N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine?

Oh it's certainly in there for a reason and perhaps a synergistic effect is being achieved that individuals like PA and others are not seeing immediately by having a narrow focus on just the properties or structure of a given PEA found. Probably not a whole lot of human studies period on this stuff. Some inert stuff can be fun through proper synergies. DS knows what's up and use of large quantities of PEA whatever was no mistake. Get mine today and will see what it feels like?

 

[996ttelise]

I'd love to hear Patrick's opinion on the ingredients mentioned in that post, regardless if those mails are legit or not,
just out of curiosity, or better, some sort of "worst-case scenario", like, if they are in craze what possible side fx/consequences we would be looking at?

I know you said n-benzyl-2-phenylethylamine is ineffective/not dangerous (if I got it right),
there there would be the N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine?

Two new phenylethylamine derivatives have recently*been released on the supplement market. I will briefly discuss their pharmacology below.

N-Ethyl-2-phenylpropan-1-amine

Synonyms: N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine
CID 15788198

Years ago the supplement industry released Beta-MethylPhenylethylamine (b-methyl-PEA)*in an attempt to enhance the effects of phenylethylamine without impinging on the Federal Analog Act (FAA). These guidelines were developed to restrict the production of designer amphetamines through chemical manipulation. B-methyl-PEA was able to side step these guidelines, and since it was easily isolatable in various plants, its legality was rarely in question. Unfortunately, the same chemical nature which made it easily side step FAA also made it inert*at*even large*doses. As Shulgin determined decades ago, a beta-methyl group is too far away from the nitrogen to sterically protect against MAO, and therefore the differences between regular PEA and b-Methyl-PEA*are negligible.

N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine, on the other hand, possesses a fairly bulky ethyl substituent coming off the nitrogen. This substituent should protect the nitrogen from rapid MAO deamination, and therefore prolong the drugs half life significantly (See: Amphetamine vs. N-ethylamphetamine). Pharmacodynamically, this drug will act no different then regular PEA, although its longevity will enhance its catecholamine*"releasing" properties, especially with acute supplementation. Similarly, the N-ethyl group will also increase the compounds amphipathism, which may expedite CNS penetration.



N-Benzyl-2-phenethylamine


Synonyms: Benethamine, N-Benzyl-2-PEA
CID 65055

Extensive research with alpha-methylated derivatives of this compound (See: Benzphetamine, N-Benzylamphetamine) indicate that the main metabolite of N-Benzyl-2-PEA will be PEA. Similar to the compound previously discussed, the N-benzyl substituent will likely enjoy a longer half life than regular PEA. Conversely, it should offer less CNS penetration due to the polarity of the benzyl moiety. The main difference between PEA and its N-benzyl*derivative is that the latter may produce a local anesthetic effect relating to sodium channel inhibition. It may also*possess weak sigma receptor proclivity.

In summary, these compounds may indeed be superior pharmacological derivatives of phenylethylamine, although vastly inferior to alpha-substituted analogues. As of this writing, neither analogue has been found in nature. Similarly, no animal or human study exists, and the potential for negative health effects, although unlikely,*are not excluded. Caveat emptor.

 

[996ttelise]

Note statement at end about no human or animal studies exist. Guess Cahill wants us to be guinea pigs. I wonder if that is how he got his awesome physique.

 

[blackjackcat]

Everything that I experience on this supplement says something else is in here not on the label. I do get the numb throat, when I go up to one scoop. I take it at 5:30pm and I am not able to get to sleep at night(never a problem with other PW I have used). I get a hours sleep, yet I take a scoop of this and I am ready to push hard for a1 1/2 in the gym. I have dropped 15lbs in two+ months, and looking at the mirror, a lot of this is bodyfat(it is quite the transformation according to my wife). I have busted my butt, 5 days week, but I am never too tired to workout when I use Craze. I was really hoping that this is something thats not bad for my health long term, but I may be fooling myself. I do not want to risk long term helath for some gains/losses short term. I have to say, it feels close to what AX SX felt like, just not as strong at one scoop. Here, I was thinking DS was a trustworthy company, and now this. I will not judge until I hear what is really in there, but I am crossing my fingers that it is something not harmful healthwise.

 

[D3Baseball]

No offense to the people in here that know much more than me, but it has to be considered that there is a MOA that hasn't been thought of just yet. I know the folks at DS claim to know exactly how it works, but obviously aren't interested in releasing that so that a bunch of duplicates don't pop up on the market.

 

[AutoKal47]

Oh it's certainly in there for a reason and perhaps a synergistic effect is being achieved that individuals like PA and others are not seeing immediately by having a narrow focus on just the properties or structure of a given PEA found. Probably not a whole lot of human studies period on this stuff. Some inert stuff can be fun through proper synergies. DS knows what's up and use of large quantities of PEA whatever was no mistake. Get mine today and will see what it feels like?

Patrick said he thinks the ingredients aren't doing much, my next question would then have been
*what* ingredient is then the main responsible for the focus/nootropic effect of it?
A synergistic effect between these and the listed ones would be my guess, but I'm just blindly guessing really

 

[Mission1]

Maybe the real question should with all the seeds being planted in everyones head about craze possibly being tainted, who's gonna stop until the verdict is out or just possibly keep playing Russian roulette till somebody hits the floor. In my opinion it's a real mind f..k.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Then I'm a little confused as to why you quoted my post on if they would "fake" the lawsuit. Although perhaps you made a mistake as your reply to my quoted post didn't really go with it.

And of course you're entitled to do what you want, but responding to countless comments (some that are weeks old) in order of post after post tends to clutter the "order" of the thread. Just my .02 though and won't comment further on the upping of the post count

we resolved the debate over the possibility of a "fake" lawsuit eons ago. agreed that it only discombobulates the flow of the thread to interject that back in

this happens when peeps are late and start at page one and start commenting on posts not knowing the arguments have been resolved. its like me going to congress and lobbying to free the slaves. been there and done that

its all good it happens

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I was making a reference to the parallels of how a company or an individual can make one screw-up, mistake, whatever, etc. after a good track record and in the end people will usually remember the screw-ups. Yes, Michael Jackson was a great dancer, singer, etc. but the first things that pop into many's minds are 'plastic surgery... dangling a baby from a balcony... 'vitiligo'... etc).

actually none of those things really spring to mind when MJ is mentioned

Its the fact that he fukkkkked macauley culkin and emmaneul lewis and countless other underage innnocent boys in the arse after he got them drunk that i find relevant

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I've had my share of screw-ups that I get reminded of on a weekly basis. I've done gay porn, I've escorted, .

and u will be running for governator of california soon

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Absolutely. But it's a lot cheaper to simply derive a ****amamie name for phenylethylamine and slap it on the label, than to do the following:

1. Ask for the synthesis of a novel phenylethylamine.
2. Go through extensive QA to ensure purity.
3. Go through human testing to ensure efficacy.

NOW, assuming its a totally mild stimulant, then at this point they

4. Approved it for use in a major product, paying more for it's synthesis than other common phenylethylamines, even though it has few
beneficial effects on the formula.
5. Kept using it.

All that, just to have a name on a label? Yeah, and AX only purchased 2-Diphenylmethylpyrrolidine so they could stick "proline analog" on their labels, because they knew how impressed we would all be.

EDIT: It's amazing how much this mirrors the Slim Xtreme debacle from a few years back. Anyone here still believe it was "Aneurin DBE" that was causing 12 hours of euphoric focus and, later on, stimulant psychosis?

we shall find out soon enuff

my sample of n-benzyl pea is in the hands of bros crazy enuff to try it out. i told them to start at 100-200mg. i like to start high to see if it works and then taper down to see what the lowest effective dose is (that is if the test subject is not someone whose health i am particularly concerned about)

 

[Force of Green]

and u will be running for governator of california soon

I'm retired now, so I'm in Florida