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doctor said sreriods are bad for you

heckler7

heckler7

Active member
I went to the doctor a while back to get pre cycle labs done. Well I had a follow up visit today and was discussing my test level. It was at 300 even. He said thats good, and I said I would like to see it higher, at that point had went off on a rant that he didn't agree with hormone therapy and that testosterone causes liver cancer. So I skipped doing the on cycle lab with him and I'm gonna just order one from the internet. But after hearing his BS about testosterone I dont think I'm gonna go back.
 
steroids are bad for you? this is the first time i'm hearing about this.

high five!
 
I guess we are all getting liver cancer then with all the testosterone we have in our bodies :P I sure as hell wouldnt go back to him
 
Before you go laughing at your doctor, try reading up on what he says. Some medications for TRT can cause liver damage and/or cancer.

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''Medications similar to testosterone that are taken by mouth for a long time may cause serious damage to the liver or liver cancer. ''
 
Everything is bad for you when you abuse it. Moderation is the key.
 
soontobbeast said:
Before you go laughing at your doctor, try reading up on what he says. Some medications for TRT can cause liver damage and/or cancer.

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''Medications similar to testosterone that are taken by mouth for a long time may cause serious damage to the liver or liver cancer. ''
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I believe they are referring to methylated hormones. Which indeed will cause liver damage. Injectable test will cause some problems but not like oral methyls. I could imagine some doc prescribing dianabol low dose for life... That'll surely kill someone.
 
mattrag said:
I believe they are referring to methylated hormones. Which indeed will cause liver damage. Injectable test will cause some problems but not like oral methyls. I could imagine some doc prescribing dianabol low dose for life... That'll surely kill someone.
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:lmao:

not sure if you're serious - i tried to upload the pic but imageshack wanted me to register
 
soontobbeast said:
:lmao:

not sure if you're serious - i tried to upload the pic but imageshack wanted me to register
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Trt as far as testosterone shots twice a week is pretty safe. Considering the diseases associated the low test. And as long as they are not taking oral steroids I cant see their liver being under that much stress. I believe the study was pointed to methylated androgens as the quote said orally. I'm on my phone though so I won't be pulling up the study till I get to a computer.
 
mattrag said:
Trt as far as testosterone shots twice a week is pretty safe. Considering the diseases associated the low test. And as long as they are not taking oral steroids I cant see their liver being under that much stress. I believe the study was pointed to methylated androgens as the quote said orally. I'm on my phone though so I won't be pulling up the study till I get to a computer.
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high levels of test can cause certain types of cancer as well.

you're spot on,though, that test injections aren't very harmful on the liver.

however, many docs start [HRT] patients off on test creams and pills - which is why i posted the link to the site explaining aforementioned damage.
 
soontobbeast said:
high levels of test can cause certain types of cancer as well.

you're spot on,though, that test injections aren't very harmful on the liver.

however, many docs start [HRT] patients off on test creams and pills - which is why i posted the link to the site explaining aforementioned damage.
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Ah. Kk. And yes. Too high levels of test will cause you to have problems as well. Primordial performance had a good scale. Shows what are some bad sides of low test and goes up to natural levels up to superficial levels. And all the sides experienced at each level.
 
hrt is injections as was already said... the point is to bring your levels to normal not to have super human test levels. and yeah liver stress/cancer can be an issue with long term oral steroid use Im not going to argue with that.
 
soontobbeast said:
high levels of test can cause certain types of cancer as well.

you're spot on,though, that test injections aren't very harmful on the liver.

however, many docs start [HRT] patients off on test creams and pills - which is why i posted the link to the site explaining aforementioned damage.
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I have never heard drs prescribing pills for hrt? Creams yes..but I know several people on hrt after the creams they went straight to injections..
 
bigdavid said:
I have never heard drs prescribing pills for hrt? Creams yes..but I know several people on hrt after the creams they went straight to injections..
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the point is moot. the OP obviously didn't understand what the doctor said, and tried to make him sound crazy. my point was to show that there was evidence supporting what i'm guessing the doctor actually said, or was referring to.

I don't care, beyond that.
 
soontobbeast said:
the point is moot. the OP obviously didn't understand what the doctor said, and tried to make him sound crazy. my point was to show that there was evidence supporting what i'm guessing the doctor actually said, or was referring to.

I don't care, beyond that.
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The argument of steroids causing liver cancer has been going on for a very long time. There will never be conclusive evidence because we cannot do the required double blind clinical trials due to the legality of the substances. I understand people misinterpret what drs tell them sometimes. We are all entitled to our opinions many drs have varied opinions on different treatments. But if the OP doesnt agree with this drs views it is very simple he should find a diff dr.
 
Id never go to that doc again... and if its one assigned through your insurance, get a new one assigned.

Any doc who states they arent willing to do hormone therapy is a crock and throwing out a lame reason like liver issues means hes trying to lead you down a dead end road considering there are alternatives that ARENT liver toxic. Hes not there for your best interest so in your best interest, you shouldnt be there either.

Bloods online from private md labs .com are cheap enough, especially when you use the female hormone panel loophole explained in the bloodwork sections here and on PHF.
 
Sourdough said:
Id never go to that doc again... and if its one assigned through your insurance, get a new one assigned.

Any doc who states they arent willing to do hormone therapy is a crock and throwing out a lame reason like liver issues means hes trying to lead you down a dead end road considering there are alternatives that ARENT liver toxic. Hes not there for your best interest so in your best interest, you shouldnt be there either.

Bloods online from private md labs .com are cheap enough, especially when you use the female hormone panel loophole explained in the bloodwork sections here and on PHF.
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I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you man. Just cause a doc doesn't want to aid in your use of steroids does not make him a crock. Whatever spin you put on it doing juice is not good for your body but we do it anyway. Doing it in moderation is key as with anything else! I do agree that there are probably other docs willing to work with you a little more.
 
soontobbeast said:
Before you go laughing at your doctor, try reading up on what he says. Some medications for TRT can cause liver damage and/or cancer.

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''Medications similar to testosterone that are taken by mouth for a long time may cause serious damage to the liver or liver cancer. ''
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This hardly qualifies as evidence
 
mattrag said:
Ah. Kk. And yes. Too high levels of test will cause you to have problems as well. Primordial performance had a good scale. Shows what are some bad sides of low test and goes up to natural levels up to superficial levels. And all the sides experienced at each level.
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Can you link me to that scale? very interested
 
MuscleMD said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you man. Just cause a doc doesn't want to aid in your use of steroids does not make him a crock. Whatever spin you put on it doing juice is not good for your body but we do it anyway. Doing it in moderation is key as with anything else! I do agree that there are probably other docs willing to work with you a little more.
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no doctor is going to put you on supraphysiological dosages of hormones. but it is wrong to not help a man with low testosterone regain levels of a normal young man.
if you have extremely low levels of testosterone, not getting trt is going to be bad for you in so many different ways. life will suck.
steroids are bad for you, thats why they are given to terminally ill patients. it must be a conspiracy to kill all the people with muscle wasting diseases, burn victims, genetic defects, aids, etc.
pharmacuetical companies are the puppet masters. and there is no real profit with testosterone. it can not be patented.
 
Personally, my pcp knows how to prescribe meds for a sinus infection, or anxiety for example. I wouldn't ever trust that he has a clue how to manipulate my hormone levels correctly. Endocrinologists at men's vitality clinics would be a better option...
 
jbryand101b said:
no doctor is going to put you on supraphysiological dosages of hormones. but it is wrong to not help a man with low testosterone regain levels of a normal young man.
if you have extremely low levels of testosterone, not getting trt is going to be bad for you in so many different ways. life will suck.
steroids are bad for you, thats why they are given to terminally ill patients. it must be a conspiracy to kill all the people with muscle wasting diseases, burn victims, genetic defects, aids, etc.
pharmacuetical companies are the puppet masters. and there is no real profit with testosterone. it can not be patented.
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Very good point. If you give a heroin addict methadone to help his recovery then the same should hold true for the guy suffering from low test.
 
It seems his testosterone levels were at a good/normal level for his age, whatever age the original poster is. He dis-agreed with the doctor and wanted to have a higher level than considered normal. Also we don't know the whole story and the exact word for word conversation. It was obviously taken out of context. You can't just say the guy is bad doctor without you yourself(us) having a few consultations with him.

Example,

Some guys on an internet message board-"I talked to my doctor about steroids and he says they aren't healthy for me."

Other guys on the same thread-"Screw that, that doctor sucks, steroids is cool!". "That guy is a bad doctor!", "Yeah get a different doctor!".



I urge the thread started to not make medical decisions about your health based on what you see on an internet message board. Seriously, when making decisions based on your health Anabolicminds.com or any other internet message board should be the last thing on your mind.
 
MuscleMD said:
Very good point. If you give a heroin addict methadone to help his recovery then the same should hold true for the guy suffering from low test.
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exactly, because heroine is produced naturally by the body, and addicts going through withdrawal symptoms d/t having low levels of heroine is the same as a man going through low levels of testosterone and of course, methadone is an identical hormone to naturally produced heroine in the body.
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jbryand101b said:
exactly, because heroine is produced naturally by the body, and addicts going through withdrawal symptoms d/t having low levels of heroine is the same as a man going through low levels of testosterone and of course, methadone is an identical hormone to naturally produced heroine in the body.
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I think you missed the point. If you inject steroids and cause yourself to have low testosterone post cycle and need replacement therapy you caused your own problem but doesn't mean a doc shouldn't help you. I was trying to use an analogy.
 
A comment on steroids and liver cancer.

Oral hormone use whether it be oral AAS use or oral contraceptive use has been associated with a benign liver tumor called a hepatic adenoma. It is seen far more often in females on OCs but this is because there are far more of them. It is more commonly seen after prolonged use.

Some minority of these tumors can undergo malignant transformation resulting in hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) (cancer). I don't know the exact incidence.

There are not that many published cases of AAS users getting HCC so it is difficult to know more details. So, there may be a statistical association but it is not that common. To my knowledge, there is no association between injectable testosterone and hepatic adenomas or HCC.

Being overly simplistic and saying "steroids cause liver cancer" is not supportable by the current evidence.
 
adnscmplx said:
A comment on steroids and liver cancer.

Oral hormone use whether it be oral AAS use or oral contraceptive use has been associated with a benign liver tumor called a hepatic adenoma. It is seen far more often in females on OCs but this is because there are far more of them. It is more commonly seen after prolonged use.

Some minority of these tumors can undergo malignant transformation resulting in hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) (cancer). I don't know the exact incidence.

There are not that many published cases of AAS users getting HCC so it is difficult to know more details. So, there may be a statistical association but it is not that common. To my knowledge, there is no association between injectable testosterone and hepatic adenomas or HCC.

Being overly simplistic and saying "steroids cause liver cancer" is not supportable by the current evidence.
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wow you're on the late , late show.
 
Well every time you replicate dna you have on average 5 mistakes, thus you are almost guaranteed to get cancer. Life is a terminal condition.
 
Gerbil said:
Well every time you replicate dna you have on average 5 mistakes, thus you are almost guaranteed to get cancer. Life is a terminal condition.
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yeah, except for the immune system, cancer suppressing genes, apoptosis, etc.
 
MuscleMD said:
I think you missed the point. If you inject steroids and cause yourself to have low testosterone post cycle and need replacement therapy you caused your own problem but doesn't mean a doc shouldn't help you. I was trying to use an analogy.
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my dad is a all natural bb'er, after his last competition, he cut his bf too low, and now has t levels in the 200's. he's never used any exogenous hormones.
but the doctor will not even give him an ai or clomid to help with his test.

and no, heroine and steroids can not be compared, they are completely different as i pointed out.

low test can happen to anyone. you aren't going to have heroine withdrawals as you get older.

If you have low test after using steroids, there is nothing wrong with a doctor helping you get it back what you should have.

you will either die, or eventually recover from the withdrawal symptoms of heroine usage (depending on the length of abuse) but you will not recover your natural test production once it has been permanently shut down/lowered.
 
jbryand101b said:
my dad is a all natural bb'er, after his last competition, he cut his bf too low, and now has t levels in the 200's. he's never used any exogenous hormones.
but the doctor will not even give him an ai or clomid to help with his test.

and no, heroine and steroids can not be compared, they are completely different as i pointed out.

low test can happen to anyone. you aren't going to have heroine withdrawals as you get older.

If you have low test after using steroids, there is nothing wrong with a doctor helping you get it back what you should have.

you will either die, or eventually recover from the withdrawal symptoms of heroine usage (depending on the length of abuse) but you will not recover your natural test production once it has been permanently shut down/lowered.
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Why won't the doc help ur dad?
 
You guys, you're all missing the point here. A primary care physician does 'PRIMARY' care. Family Doc's don't usually blame people ignorantly for their pasts or judge them, and then not treat them. Some of these Doc's aren't prescribing test for the same reason most of them wouldn't prescribe methadone or weed, or a strong antipsychotic med. It's not their freaking place to. What they SHOULD be doing is referring these individuals to the proper qualified specialists and let them make the decision how to treat.
 
Matthersby said:
You guys, you're all missing the point here. A primary care physician does 'PRIMARY' care. Family Doc's don't usually blame people ignorantly for their pasts or judge them, and then not treat them. Some of these Doc's aren't prescribing test for the same reason most of them wouldn't prescribe methadone or weed, or a strong antipsychotic med. It's not their freaking place to. What they SHOULD be doing is referring these individuals to the proper qualified specialists and let them make the decision how to treat.
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Yup, do what my primary does all the time... "I think you should see a specialist".
 
soontobbeast said:
Before you go laughing at your doctor, try reading up on what he says. Some medications for TRT can cause liver damage and/or cancer.

Invalid Link Removed

''Medications similar to testosterone that are taken by mouth for a long time may cause serious damage to the liver or liver cancer. ''
Click to expand...
I'm already pinning 800mgs a week of test. Only reason I did pre-cycle labs with him is so I can do post labs and be possibly low enough to get a script for test. I never heard of a low dose of test giving anyone liver cancer. If that was true there would be a heap of lesbos on the news crying over their dead girlfriends.
 
Matthersby said:
You guys, you're all missing the point here. A primary care physician does 'PRIMARY' care. Family Doc's don't usually blame people ignorantly for their pasts or judge them, and then not treat them. Some of these Doc's aren't prescribing test for the same reason most of them wouldn't prescribe methadone or weed, or a strong antipsychotic med. It's not their freaking place to. What they SHOULD be doing is referring these individuals to the proper qualified specialists and let them make the decision how to treat.
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couldn't have said it better
 
With all due respect, I have never seen one study relating/proving high levels of Test cause cancer.

Allow me to clarify.....

IMHO, it's the irresponsible user that fails to control the sides that accompany Test use at supraphysiological levels that lead to any pathology (hypertension, prostate hypertrophy, excessive estrogen, lipid profile, etc).

This is not to imply Test is without risks, but again, IMHO, it's the user's misguided approach that makes it "dangerous" at high doses; specifically, for not controlling the conversions (via OTC supplementation or meds)---> sides.

soontobbeast said:
high levels of test can cause certain types of cancer as well.

you're spot on,though, that test injections aren't very harmful on the liver.

however, many docs start [HRT] patients off on test creams and pills - which is why i posted the link to the site explaining aforementioned damage.
Click to expand...
 
Whacked said:
With all due respect, I have never seen one study where high levels of Test cause cancer.

Allow me to clarify.....

IMHO, it's the irresponsible uncontrolled sides that accompany Test use at supraphysiological levels (hypertension, prostate hypertrophy, excessive estrogen, lipid profile, etc) that lead to any pathology.

This is not to imply Test is without risks, but again, IMHO, it's the user's misguided approach that makes it "dangerous" at high doses; specifically, for not controlling the conversions (via OTC supplementation or meds)---> sides.
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allow me to retract what i said about cancer. apparently the idea that very high levels of test can lead to prostate cancer was disproved.

i found some info relating to it on LEF

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jbryand101b said:
thats what i told my pops. lots of anti age clinics here in pheonix.
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Yep. Men's vitality centers, tempe, glendale, mesa... I have friends in their 20's telling me how great they are....
 
JudoJosh said:
Has he considered self medicating with clomid?



Because there isnt
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Well, apparently enough people thought it could, since life extension did several articles discussing it and that it doesn't.

soontobbeast said:
allow me to retract what i said about cancer. apparently the idea that very high levels of test can lead to prostate cancer was disproved.

i found some info relating to it on LEF

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but you're right, i was making stuff up!
 
soontobbeast said:
Well, apparently enough people thought it could, since life extension did several articles discussing it and that it doesn't.



but you're right, i was making stuff up!
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Popular belief does not equal fact or truth. Facts are there isnt evidence to support the claims his doctor made.

jbryand101b said:
im thinking of getting him to try a cycle or transaderm & erase pro.
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Low dose clomid would be my suggestion
 
JudoJosh said:
Popular belief does not equal fact or truth. Facts are there isnt evidence to support the claims his doctor made.
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ok i'm gonna try this one more time because some people got 0's on the ACT for reading comprehension.

soontobbeast said:
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''Medications similar to testosterone that are taken by mouth for a long time may cause serious damage to the liver or liver cancer. ''
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his doctor said , HRT can cause liver cancer. Test pills are a form of HRT. the focking website for the test pills said the pills could cause liver damage and/or cancer.


THOSE are the facts. the doc never mentioned any specific type of HRT. what he DID NOT mention is injections. WHAT HE DID MENTION is liver cancer. so, ergo de facto, the doc was right, and so was i. of course, the doctor should have mentioned other forms of HRT that won't cause liver cancer. that is beside the point.

did i make that clear enough?
 
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