Christian Friends - End Time Prophecies?

[Sourdough]

I haven't posted on this forum yet and usually just lurk, but I read this and was completely offended. Do some research and get your facts straight before you start claiming things. Islam does not command Muslims to kill Jews. Just like to everything there is two sides. Are you telling me there arent radical Christians or radical Jews? This is a sign of ignorance. Where you read that or heard is from the extremist side of Islam such as in Saudi arabia. The rest of Islam preaches peace and to be accepting of all religions.




If you read more about Islam you would know the answer to your own question. Jesus, Mohammad and the rest of the prophets are of equal importance in Islam. None over the other. Prophet Mohammad is considered to be the one that brought Islam to the region is why he is also important. Islam believes in the teachings of Jesus, Moses and all.

It is not much different than the other two religions (Christianity and Judaism), do your research and don't believe everything you read or hear in the news.

I'm in no way trying to bash anybody but you all have to understand where I'm coming from. I have to deal with this on a daily basis from people who have a lack of knowledge. Im a regular American Muslim and do everything you guys do. I've taken PH's and do everything you guys do. There's just a few retards that give one side a bad name. Just please do your research.

agreed with this....

If you dont think Moses lead the Jews to Genocide and christians in their "Crusades" didnt do the same then you are extremely short sighted...

I am a Christian, I am a "Mormon".

I believe that Jesus Christ was crucified and atoned for our sins. I believe that by following his teachings and performing certain ordinances he has set forth, that we can again live with him and our families for all Eternity in Celestial glory. I believe the Bible, as long as it is translated correctly, to be the word of God and a testament of Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon was written for our latter days to confirm the teachings in the bible and that Jesus is the Christ. I believe if you took the time to read the Book of Mormon and prayed sincerely to God of its truth you will receive spiritual confirmation of such. I believe that God is the same yesterday, today and will always be the same and therefore believe that there is a Prophet at the head of his church today that receives and provides modern day revelations for his children. Again I believe that Jesus is the Christ and I do not worship some "mormon" or "joseph smith" or the Prophet, but I do beleive they were all ancient or modern day prophets, inspired of God and used to bring to pass his works in their times and dispensations. I bare this testimony, in the name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, AMEN.


If you want a good idea of what members of the LDS faith believe, dont search the internet with all its misinformation and lies, instead ask them yourself they will be happy to share....

these are our general "Articles of Faith", or our core beliefs.... please tell me in what way it coincides with "the spirit of the anti christ"

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

 

[Sourdough]

Jesus was sinless, brutally crucified and died on a cross for our sins and rose from the dead.

Tell me: What did Muhammad do?

Jews deny Jesus is the son of God.

I think your statements are patenty false as well and research is a 2-way street.

I apologize for offending you if I did. I DO understand that Islam is for the most part a religion of peace save the looney Radicals. That said, so is Budhism and Taoism amongst many other religions. At the end of the day, all non-Christians will not enter the kingdom of Heaven as works mean nothing.

I strongly disagree...

"faith without works is dead" (James 2:14-26)

 

[AE14]

I strongly disagree...

"faith without works is dead" (James 2:14-26)

Very well said my friend. I have been surprised by certain posters here, and their utter lack of tolerance.

 

[Sourdough]

Sorry... all caught up now....

As for the OP topic...


I believe that the end of times is CLOSE... whether it will be in our lifetime or our children's lifetime Idk... no one knows... not even the Myans or anyone else...

Any catastrophic event can occur at any given moment spelling out the end for ALL human life in a multitude of ways... the fact that we are even still here today is only by the grace of God and by his mercy, allowing us the chance to do some good in sharing His word and knowledge of the Savior...


I feel that ALL religion has SOME truth to it, of course Im particular to my own sect, as everyone is, even the non-theists are their own, but they all comment and prophesy of many signs and indications that we are in fact in the times of the last days. The increasing evil in the world and the fact that the temporal is overcoming the spiritual as the source of worship will have Him ending it all sooner then later.

At times I hope and pray for the end to just come and save us from ourselves, but at the same time I hope and pray that it wont so that we might possibly turn the hearts of those that have not had the chance to hear to the Lord and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior....




As for the interpretations of prophecy of the second coming.... blood moon, coming out of the east, burning of the entire earth "baptism by fire" what do you all suspect will be the causing of these things?

 

[carpee]

Sorry... all caught up now....

As for the OP topic...

I believe that the end of times is CLOSE... whether it will be in our lifetime or our children's lifetime Idk... no one knows... not even the Myans or anyone else...

Any catastrophic event can occur at any given moment spelling out the end for ALL human life in a multitude of ways... the fact that we are even still here today is only by the grace of God and by his mercy, allowing us the chance to do some good in sharing His word and knowledge of the Savior...

I feel that ALL religion has SOME truth to it, of course Im particular to my own sect, as everyone is, even the non-theists are their own, but they all comment and prophesy of many signs and indications that we are in fact in the times of the last days. The increasing evil in the world and the fact that the temporal is overcoming the spiritual as the source of worship will have Him ending it all sooner then later.

At times I hope and pray for the end to just come and save us from ourselves, but at the same time I hope and pray that it wont so that we might possibly turn the hearts of those that have not had the chance to hear to the Lord and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior....

As for the interpretations of prophecy of the second coming.... blood moon, coming out of the east, burning of the entire earth "baptism by fire" what do you all suspect will be the causing of these things?

well said.

about not knowing when tho...it should be within one generation of Israel becoming a nation (1948).
we also have the groaning of the earth as
if in labor pains.

I also believe it will
be China, Russia, and Iran together against Israel. aaaand the 3 of them seem to be getting real friendly.

 

[fueledpassion]

The best post so far. Amen to that. It's about showing people through actions. An archbishop from the St. Louis and then New Orleans area had a famous saying, "Preach the Gospel, use words if necessary." it's not simply through what we believe it's through our actions that we inspire others.

Mathew 22: 37-40: " Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

And it's true, too. The first 4 of the 10 commandments are defining the relationship between man and God and the last 6 are defining the relationship between men.

 

[fueledpassion]

I strongly disagree...

"faith without works is dead" (James 2:14-26)

The author isn't saying your works are necessary to be heaven bound! That's a very commonly misinterpreted scripture and it must be read in the context of the rest of the book. The author is making a point that if you claim to have "faith" yet do not have tangible heart change, then your faith is null and void - as in it isn't a real faith. On the flip, he is also saying that if you do have faith, then that also means that the Spirit lives in you, (John 14:23-24; 1 Corinthians 6:17). And if the Spirit of God is in you, then don't you think your life should change!?! If a perfect and Holy God becomes one in Spirit with you then YES, your faith will prove itself to others by your works.

And to directly prove my point about the misinterpretation of that scripture: Galatians 2:15-16 says, "We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the work of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ."

I'm about to start dishin out some theological choke-slams. Keep 'em comin folks. I'm enjoying this!

 

[fueledpassion]

1 Corinthians 15:22 - "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

This is a good scripture to show that man (Adam) and his efforts only led/lead to death. Yet those who trust in the work of Christ alone, have the gift of God which is life.

Heck even the Psalmist of the OT knew this: Psalm 77:12 says, "I will consider all your works and meditate on all your mighty deeds."

And again in John 6:28-29 is says: Then they ask him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent."

Wow, really? All we have to do is believe?

Yep, sure enough.

But how does just "believing" in Christ really change us or make us worthy of salvation?

Simple, believing is trusting and trusting is having confidence in or reliance on the integrity, ability, surety, etc. of a person or thing. So basically, trust in the words & promises of Christ and you have yourself everything that you need for salvation and a healthy, lively relationship with God.

So what happens then?

Then you are filled with the Spirit. (Acts 1: 4-5)

Then what?

Then your nature changes from a sinful nature to a righteous nature. What you once loved (sin) you now do not find edification in, and what once was awkward or fake to you (loving and worshiping God) is now a natural behavior since the Spirit is in you - hence, the "works" that you speak of in James 2. And then we can go full circle back to John 14 & 15 where Jesus repeatedly talks about "those who love Him" are the ones who "know and obey His commands", which are also the very same commands that the Jews live and breath by as well. So really the only difference between a Jew and a Christian is that a Jew uses religion as a means to heaven and a Christian uses the work of Christ as the only means to heaven and in which they live in a religious manner and obey commands as a result of believing in Christ.

And I think this also would answer why a Christian is a friend of a Jew even tho they reject Christ. We live amongst the same principles, we just do them for two totally different reasons.


...I'm done here

 

[Sourdough]

The author isn't saying your works are necessary to be heaven bound! That's a very commonly misinterpreted scripture and it must be read in the context of the rest of the book. The author is making a point that if you claim to have "faith" yet do not have tangible heart change, then your faith is null and void - as in it isn't a real faith. On the flip, he is also saying that if you do have faith, then that also means that the Spirit lives in you, (John 14:23-24; 1 Corinthians 6:17). And if the Spirit of God is in you, then don't you think your life should change!?! If a perfect and Holy God becomes one in Spirit with you then YES, your faith will prove itself to others by your works.

And to directly prove my point about the misinterpretation of that scripture: Galatians 2:15-16 says, "We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the work of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ."

I'm about to start dishin out some theological choke-slams. Keep 'em comin folks. I'm enjoying this!

Your post makes no sense...do you agree or disagree, cause you start one way and end another....

In that very scripture it goes into detail to lay out a physical action (works) of abraham in accordance to the command of the Lord, exercising his faith through his works.

As you ended the "point", one cannot be accordance with the faith in Christ unless he is a person that is faithful and that faith is exemplified through his works (charity, love, following commandments and adhering to covenants).... One can not simply, believe, or have faith, and be saved. Therefore faith without works its dead.... That scripture is pretty straight forward and leaves little for interpretation with the way its worded. The rest of the book does nothing to negate this message.

The scripture you quote is also not applicable to this situation as its in reference to the temporal laws and actions of the jews in their anticipation for Christ, performing symbolic sacrifices of christ (work of the law, not "works")instead of having faith in that Christ that was right there before them....

 

[Sourdough]

1 Corinthians 15:22 - "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

This is a good scripture to show that man (Adam) and his efforts only led/lead to death. Yet those who trust in the work of Christ alone, have the gift of God which is life.

Heck even the Psalmist of the OT knew this: Psalm 77:12 says, "I will consider all your works and meditate on all your mighty deeds."

And again in John 6:28-29 is says: Then they ask him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent."

Wow, really? All we have to do is believe?

Yep, sure enough.

But how does just "believing" in Christ really change us or make us worthy of salvation?

Simple, believing is trusting and trusting is having confidence in or reliance on the integrity, ability, surety, etc. of a person or thing. So basically, trust in the words & promises of Christ and you have yourself everything that you need for salvation and a healthy, lively relationship with God.

So what happens then?

Then you are filled with the Spirit. (Acts 1: 4-5)

Then what?

Then your nature changes from a sinful nature to a righteous nature. What you once loved (sin) you now do not find edification in, and what once was awkward or fake to you (loving and worshiping God) is now a natural behavior since the Spirit is in you - hence, the "works" that you speak of in James 2. And then we can go full circle back to John 14 & 15 where Jesus repeatedly talks about "those who love Him" are the ones who "know and obey His commands".

...I'm done here

The scripture for palms supports my view, it states taking both faith and works into consideration....

John 6 reference also is the question of the disciples asking by what means they might perform miracles (the work of god) and to that us his response, through faith, thus is easy to see when taken in the context of the entire chapter and the fact that he (peter) didn't have the faith to walk on water and also the feeding of the 5000....
It doesn't apply to the topic....


Many things can be taken out of context or interpreted differently to prove a point... Your best bet is to take it in the context provided and use the oldest translation of the scripture available...

I'm not sure choke slams have their place in theological discussions, let's keep it civil here.

 

[fueledpassion]

Your post makes no sense...do you agree or disagree, cause you start one way and end another....

In that very scripture it goes into detail to lay out a physical action (works) of abraham in accordance to the command of the Lord, exercising his faith through his works.

As you ended the "point", one cannot be accordance with the faith in Christ unless he is a person that is faithful and that faith is exemplified through his works (charity, love, following commandments and adhering to covenants).... One can not simply, believe, or have faith, and be saved. Therefore faith without works its dead.... That scripture is pretty straight forward and leaves little for interpretation with the way its worded. The rest of the book does nothing to negate this message.

The scripture you quote is also not applicable to this situation as its in reference to the temporal laws and actions of the jews in their anticipation for Christ, performing symbolic sacrifices of christ (work of the law, not "works")instead of having faith in that Christ that was right there before them....

Whatever dude, I explained that as clear as day. And my context is correct, btw. Your works will get you nowhere with God. You need Jesus record. It's not a Jesus + something else ministry. It's you realizing and humbling your heart to know that Christ is the only way, and He provides the heart change, which results in a changed lifestyle. You just don't understand obviously what I, and the scripture, is getting at. It's ok. I didn't get it either for 21 years, and I was a church-goer my whole life.

And the Psalmist is talking to God. It isn't God talking to the Psalmist. He is focusing on the work of Christ, not his own. Either way, you, along with a few others on this thread, are just as convinced in your own ways as I am in Christs. So it's ok to disagree but yes, your initial talk about James was taken out of context to make your point. And I put it back in it's rightful place.

 

[Sourdough]

Whatever dude, I explained that as clear as day. And my context is correct, btw. Your works will get you nowhere with God. You need Jesus record. It's not a Jesus + something else ministry. It's you realizing and humbling your heart to know that Christ is the only way, and He provides the heart change, which results in a changed lifestyle. You just don't understand obviously what I, and the scripture, is getting at. It's ok. I didn't get it either for 21 years, and I was a church-goer my whole life.

And the Psalmist is talking to God. It isn't God talking to the Psalmist. He is focusing on the work of Christ, not his own. Either way, you, along with a few others on this thread, are just as convinced in your own ways as I am in Christs. So it's ok to disagree but yes, your initial talk about James was taken out of context to make your point. And I put it back in it's rightful place.

Well then we will agree to disagree... I am entitled to my interpretation and understanding of the scripture just as much as the next guy.

I just dont adhere to the thought that faith alone saves...


may I ask though what your view is on baptism?

 

[fueledpassion]

Well then we will agree to disagree... I am entitled to my interpretation and understanding of the scripture just as much as the next guy.

I just dont adhere to the thought that faith alone saves...


may I ask though what your view is on baptism?

I believe that baptism is the public (or private if you prefer) ceremony of the marriage between Christ and the individual. The scriptures compare the Spirit becoming one with the individual with marriage. So I look at salvation and a relationship with Christ as the "falling in love" aspect of a relationship with a companion. I look at the baptism as the "wedding" of the two. Therefore, the saying "baptized by the Spirit".

I mean, logically, one would fall in love with another first before marriage, that is, unless your culture doesn't look at marriage as a thing to seal companionship with another. Some cultures people don't get to choose, although I think they should have that right. Anyways, I come to Christ and have faith in Him before I have the baptism, which is the ceremony. Did I answer the question?

 

[carpee]

aaaand this has nothing to do with the end times again...

 

[Sourdough]

I believe that baptism is the public (or private if you prefer) ceremony of the marriage between Christ and the individual. The scriptures compare the Spirit becoming one with the individual with marriage. So I look at salvation and a relationship with Christ as the "falling in love" aspect of a relationship with a companion. I look at the baptism as the "wedding" of the two. Therefore, the saying "baptized by the Spirit".

I mean, logically, one would fall in love with another first before marriage, that is, unless your culture doesn't look at marriage as a thing to seal companionship with another. Some cultures people don't get to choose, although I think they should have that right. Anyways, I come to Christ and have faith in Him before I have the baptism, which is the ceremony. Did I answer the question?

Yes sir.

Do you feel that this baptism you partook of was essential to your salvation or necessary to do in order to be Christ like(as even he was baptized)?

Honest question.

 

[carpee]

Well then we will agree to disagree... I am entitled to my interpretation and understanding of the scripture just as much as the next guy.

I just dont adhere to the thought that faith alone saves...

may I ask though what your view is on baptism?

what if you're stranded in the desert, but you repent and pray and accept Christ...

then die two days later?

[not the end times]

 

[Sourdough]

what if you're stranded in the desert, but you repent and pray and accept Christ...

then die two days later?

[not the end times]

Im not the one to judge in that situation... I feel if the repentance is sincere though, that the Lord will know the intentions of your heart and distribute justice accordingly.

I do not believe in absolution if thats what you are asking. Doesnt fly in my book.


Edit... I think this is QUITE applicable to end of days topic of discussion as I bet you will see MANY who are confessed atheists that will drop to their knees and pray to God when they see the Second coming is at hand.... whether or not it will be too little too late, I know not as it is not my place to judge....

 

[Flaw]

If you want a good idea of what members of the LDS faith believe, dont search the internet with all its misinformation and lies, instead ask them yourself they will be happy to share....

these are our general "Articles of Faith", or our core beliefs.... please tell me in what way it coincides with "the spirit of the anti christ"

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Thanks for sharing. The internet while being a good tool is also a huge tool of the devil's to mislead people. There does exist a lot of misinformation and lies. There are even fake sites of religious organizations to merely trash them and nothing more. You either find their official site or go to a mature member themselves for the truth.

 

[AE14]

Thanks for sharing. The internet while being a good tool is also a huge tool of the devil's to mislead people. There does exist a lot of misinformation and lies. There are even fake sites of religious organizations to merely trash them and nothing more. You either find their official site or go to a mature member themselves for the truth.

I just had to jump back in here (I swear, this is it for me) now the internet is a tool of the devil?

 

[vidapreta]

I just had to jump back in here (I swear, this is it for me) now the internet is a tool of the devil?

I'm not a real religious person but I would have to agree with this. It gives perverted people access too things they would never able to get before, possibly enabling their perversions to grow. Look at people getting busted for swapping child pornography, where does that lead too.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

 

[AE14]

I'm not a real religious person but I would have to agree with this. It gives perverted people access too things they would never able to get before, possibly enabling their perversions to grow. Look at people getting busted for swapping child pornography, where does that lead too.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

so that means it is the tool of the devil? please explain this further, as blaming someone who has never been proven to exist, instead of an actual culprit makes no sense imo. I suppose we are forgetting free will

 

[vidapreta]

so that means it is the tool of the devil? please explain this further, as blaming someone who has never been proven to exist, instead of an actual culprit makes no sense imo. I suppose we are forgetting free will

Im just saying the internet can be a very good, usefull thing or it can be a very bad evil thing in the wrong hands. Like the example I gave you about child pornography.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

 

[AE14]

Im just saying the internet can be a very good, usefull thing or it can be a very bad evil thing in the wrong hands. Like the example I gave you about child pornography.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

I agree, however, saying it relates to a "devil" is far fetched to me

 

[fueledpassion]

I agree, however, saying it relates to a "devil" is far fetched to me

I think giving the devil all the credit for sinful issues is a cop-out. If it were his fault alone then God wouldn't throw men into hell, it'd just be Satan and his angels.

AE, I'd have to say the internet problems relates more to man than satan. No doubt I think Satan is using it for temptations sake, but its men (like u and me) that have corruption, selfishness and lust in our hearts. Sin is something we choose to do.

I also would say, as a general statement, that knowledge - and therefore technology - leads to more disbelief in God. Its common in just about every society that ever existed in the world. The more we thrive in knowledge, the more arrogant we become and we tend to fall away from our roots of faith in God. Thats why in the last few decades u can notice that atheism is quite a bit more pronounced than it used to be.

 

[fueledpassion]

Yes sir.

Do you feel that this baptism you partook of was essential to your salvation or necessary to do in order to be Christ like(as even he was baptized)?

Honest question.

I think its proper and accepted by God to be baptized after being saved. I do not think that baptism by water changes a person positionally with God. Baptism of the Spirit is what changes a man, not the water. And I think the Spirit comes to a man and changes his nature the very moment he believes. I do not, however, think the change is obvious from black to white in an instance. Rather, a heart change. But sactification remains a process by the Spirit.

Its the ceremony for what is more important (conversion) Its making a profession publicly. If baptism by water made the difference, that would imply that Christ was not Spirit-led and did not have justification with His Father before His baptism by John. But we all know that He was Spirit-led long before His baptism by water.

 

[Sourdough]

so that means it is the tool of the devil? please explain this further, as blaming someone who has never been proven to exist, instead of an actual culprit makes no sense imo. I suppose we are forgetting free will

Agreed... To a degree...

I think its a tool for evil or good, information or misinformation, enlightenment or further clouding our understanding of something.... What way someone chooses to wield something comes back on them, not the weapon.

I think the internet should NOT be used as a sole source of information, if anything it can be referred to and then collaborated from outside sources that are infallible ie the scriptures or the horses mouth... Even then all men are just that, men, susceptible to err, and personal prayer and spiritual confirmation should be relied on above all.

This its yet another sign of the end of days though, where the word of God is available to nearly every corner of the earth and yet people still choose to ignore it, or out right combat it and worse yet commit grievous sins using the same avenue that could help to redeem them from those sins.

 

[Sourdough]

I think its proper and accepted by God to be baptized after being saved. I do not think that baptism by water changes a person positionally with God. Baptism of the Spirit is what changes a man, not the water. And I think the Spirit comes to a man and changes his nature the very moment he believes. I do not, however, think the change is obvious from black to white in an instance. Rather, a heart change. But sactification remains a process by the Spirit.

Its the ceremony for what is more important (conversion) Its making a profession publicly. If baptism by water made the difference, that would imply that Christ was not Spirit-led and did not have justification with His Father before His baptism by John. But we all know that He was Spirit-led long before His baptism by water.

Ok, thank you for sharing.

I personally believe baptism its a requirement of salvation and part of the works required of us to accompany our faith. I believe that in leading a Christ like life one must emulate his actions. I believe the reason why He was baptized was one of example, not really necessity, to lead the way for mankind by which they can obtain a remission of their sins. Just as Christ never sinned, he bore the sins of us all and was sacrificed.

Jmo and views of my denomination. Back to the topic at hand,

 

[B5150]

so that means it is the tool of the devil? please explain this further, as blaming someone who has never been proven to exist, instead of an actual culprit makes no sense imo. I suppose we are forgetting free will

I have to agree with you.

Romans 7: “For that which I am doing, I do not understand. For I am practicing what
I wouldn’t; I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I’m doing the
very thing I hate. For I know that nothing good dwells in me – that is, in my
flesh, for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the
good that I wish I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. W
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me from the body of this death?”

Ecclesiastes: “the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts
throughout their lives.”

Ephesians 4:18 "They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts."

Ephesians 2:3 “We started out bad, being born with evil natures.”

Romans 3 “There is none righteous; not even one. There is none who understands;
there is none who seeks for God. All have turned aside. Together they
have become useless. There is none who does good; there is not even one.”

Job 5:7 “Man is simply born for trouble as sparks fly upward.”

Hosea:

“Hear the word of the Lord, O, sons of Israel. For the Lord has a case against the inhabitants
of this land, because as He looks at it, there’s no faithfulness or kindness
or knowledge of God in the land.

“There is swearing; there is deception; there is murder; there is stealing;
there is adultery. They employ violence so that bloodshed follows
bloodshed, therefore the land mourns and everyone who lives in it
languishes, along with the beasts of the field and the birds of the sky;
and also the fish of the sea disappear. And yet, and yet, let no one find fault; and let none offer
reproof because in this culture, they have gone deep in their depravity.”


Galatians 5 “But when you follow after your own inclinations, your lives will produce
these evil results: impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry,
hatred, and fighting, jealousy and anger; constant effort to get the best for
yourself; complaints and criticism; the feeling that everyone else is wrong,
except those in your little group. And there will be envy and murder and
drunkenness, and wild parties and all that sort of thing.”

Roman:
“They did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, so God gave
them over to a depraved mind, to do
those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness
and wickedness, and greed and evil and full of envy and murder, and
strife and deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God,
insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful and although
they acknowledge the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they
not only do the same, but they give hearty approval
to those who practice these things.”

"The Plight of Man":
“Man has fallen away from God and as a result his whole nature has become
perverted. Man’s whole bias is away from God by nature. His god is himself.
His own abilities and powers; his own desires are all for himself. He objects
to the demands that God makes on him. Furthermore, man likes and covets
the things which God prohibits and dislikes the things and the kind of life
God calls him to. These are not mere dogmatic statements. These are facts,
which alone can explain the moral muddle and ugliness that characterizes
our life.”

Westminster Confession -- puts it this way: “Our first parents fell and so became in sin and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body. They, being the root of all mankind, this same, corrupt nature was conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation.”

Let's give credit where credit is due: the devil or his tools made me do nothing. Depravity and deviancy is in my nature. My heart may be a tool for evil (Satan) or for good (Holy Spirit filled). If I seek to fullfill it I will find it.

I may also chose another path:

1 Corinthians 10:13: No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

 

[AE14]

I think giving the devil all the credit for sinful issues is a cop-out. If it were his fault alone then God wouldn't throw men into hell, it'd just be Satan and his angels.

AE, I'd have to say the internet problems relates more to man than satan. No doubt I think Satan is using it for temptations sake, but its men (like u and me) that have corruption, selfishness and lust in our hearts. Sin is something we choose to do.

I also would say, as a general statement, that knowledge - and therefore technology - leads to more disbelief in God. Its common in just about every society that ever existed in the world. The more we thrive in knowledge, the more arrogant we become and we tend to fall away from our roots of faith in God. Thats why in the last few decades u can notice that atheism is quite a bit more pronounced than it used to be.

That's an interesting comment. I agree it is a cop out, but I am more intrigued by the comment about knowledge bringing us further from god. It's funny, Judeo-Christian belief called him lucifer(knowledge bringer, or bringer of light) and most of the other ancient civilizations of the world worshipped the serpent, who they claim brought them knowledge. Always kinda interesting.

 

[vidapreta]

No one cares about the end of the world anymore??

 

[carpee]

No one cares about the end of the world anymore??

I thought of a possible scenario coming up.

I think Obama will throw Israel under a bus

 

[vidapreta]

Time will tell

 

[carpee]

Time will tell

I believe pulling out of iraq opens up the air space Israel will use for a preemptive attack on Iran.

if that were to happen, I can see him turning around and making them the bad guy

 

[vidapreta]

I believe pulling out of iraq opens up the air space Israel will use for a preemptive attack on Iran.

if that were to happen, I can see him turning around and making them the bad guy

How would it benefit him??

 

[vidapreta]

Or the USA??

 

[matt8483]

Seems to me like this thread is full of hypocrites. How many of u drink,smoke,use steroids etc.? Thats destroying the temple, isn't it?? I love when " religious " people preach. Ha what a joke!

 

[Whacked]

Sup Matt, don't take this the wrong way but your comments remind me of those closet homosexuals that gay-bash to protect their identity (not calling you gay, please correctly interpret the analogy).

Why would you waste your time if you are so convicted about your aetheism - why do you feel so compelled to post?

If you are also so convicted about your heterosexuality, do you also feel compelled to stop by gay bars just to tell the gay crowd how pathetic they are too?

If you are also so convicted about your aetheism, do you go to church on Sundays and tell everyone there how hypocritical they all are?

Why not? You acted no differently here.

If you are "really" so convicted about your aetheistic beliefs, you would have no interest in threads like this.

That doesnt seem to be the case, so I will pray for you since you seem to be "in the closet" with your faith and despite not even knowing, curious about Christianty.

Be well. Prayers on the way buddy

Carpee: I concur with your sentiment that Obama w/respect to Israel

Seems to me like this thread is full of hypocrites. How many of u drink,smoke,use steroids etc.? Thats destroying the temple, isn't it?? I love when " religious " people preach. Ha what a joke!

 

[NuclearLaunch]

Seems to me like this thread is full of hypocrites. How many of u drink,smoke,use steroids etc.? Thats destroying the temple, isn't it?? I love when " religious " people preach. Ha what a joke!

Doesn't God tell us to eat drink and be merry???

Whacked: great post in reference to quoted posts.

 

[vidapreta]

Carpee: I concur with your sentiment that Obama w/respect to Israel

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, so out of curiosity why do you think Obama wants to destroy Israel??

 

[NuclearLaunch]

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, so out of curiosity why do you think Obama wants to destroy Israel??

I've always been against the Obama is the anti Christ... Like really? Come on... He doesn't want to destroy Israel I don't believe. But idk. I don't think we would just break our alliance with them.

I also don't get how we can fault Iran for having nuclear warfare available to them when we have enough to blow up the world like 23x's or something like that. There is no way in hell Iran drops a nuke, if they ever did, that would be the end of the world.

 

[vidapreta]

I've always been against the Obama is the anti Christ... Like really? Come on... He doesn't want to destroy Israel I don't believe. But idk. I don't think we would just break our alliance with them.

I also don't get how we can fault Iran for having nuclear warfare available to them when we have enough to blow up the world like 23x's or something like that. There is no way in hell Iran drops a nuke, if they ever did, that would be the end of the world.

:thinking: I guess we are a little hypocritical.

 

[NuclearLaunch]

And don't think I'm some crazy liberal, I just look at everything from my own point of view and try to be unbiased.

 

[Whacked]

No, not necessarily. But he is the first US President to my knowledge that has made comments and strides to send a message to both Israel and the world that the US may not be so especially loyal to Israel as we ALWAYS have been.

Let's face it, WE are all that stands from Iran (+perhaps others) from blowing Israel off the map.

We are in unprecendented and uncharted territory and as a result, so is the now capricious/precarious future of Israel sicne their bodyguard is seemingly retiring from playing that role so diligently and passionately.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, so out of curiosity why do you think Obama wants to destroy Israel??

 

[Whacked]

I hate to admit it but you're right

This to me is analogous to Freedom of Speech. When in the wrong hands and used/abused for the wrong reasons, it's darn shame.

Both are great conceptually, very well-intentioned and work for 70% of the sane world, but in the wrong hands or in the wrong context - disaster.

I also don't get how we can fault Iran for having nuclear warfare available to them when we have enough to blow up the world like 23x's or something like that.

 

[NuclearLaunch]

I personally think israel could handle their own against Iran... Israel's army is one of the best in the world. Iran, not so much.

I'll let whacked respond then we can get back on topic.

 

[B5150]

Doesn't God tell us to eat drink and be merry???

Does He?

 

[NuclearLaunch]

Does He?

Idk, but we should!!

 

[Whacked]

Read about the "12th Imam" the annointed one and how he is expected to return any day now and fulfil Islamic prophecy according to Ahmadinejad (President of Iran).

They dont give a HOOT. World War is exactly what they WANT. What better way to take over the world than with nuclear power.

Invalid Link Removed

There is no way in hell Iran drops a nuke, if they ever did, that would be the end of the world.

 

[Whacked]

No, He does not.

These are not quotes from Jesus

That said, the Bible says that having "a" drink is not a sin (He turned water into wine for a wedding). Being drunk is.

Does He?

 

[B5150]

Seems to me like this thread is full of hypocrites. How many of u drink,smoke,use steroids etc.? Thats destroying the temple, isn't it?? I love when " religious " people preach. Ha what a joke!

I promise that you are hypocrite to your convictions. The Good News is that God judges us by the motives of our hearts not the actions of our flesh. In my heart I chose to love Him with all that I am. In my flesh I fail.

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

The Good News for us is that our God is not as shallow spiritually as man and his flesh and can see beyond what you can. I fail to achieve what I aspire to - does not make me a hypocrite.