Losing weight - I think Milk is hindering my efforts

btw, sodium being linked to weight retention is inaccurate.

as water intake is increased, so does the body's sodium requirement.

so, any amount of sodium can be countered by water and/or potassium.

it should also be noted that milk is an excellent source of potassium having over double that of its sodium content . any sodium obtained from milk is countered anyway.
 
Vengeance187 said:
I guess you haven't been reading his posts. All of them(where mentioned) specifically state fat.
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I was basing on title. Yes it's unwise to SKIM the question, but questions can/should be more specific.
 
runner_79 said:
Consider them ditched... are they a short chain o3 or long chain?
we want alpha linoleic acid not linolenic acid
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Omega-3 fatty acids from plants ARE linoleic acid.

Omega-6 from plants are linolenic. Its that simple.

You're omega-3's from fish are DHA and EPA, which is what the body uses. The conversion of ALA o3 to EPA/DHA by the human body is quite inefficient.


runner_79 said:
Br,

Invalid Link Removed
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You can easily see that walnuts have 3x the omega-6 of almonds per serving. Eating a serving of almonds is going to provide you with only 1.8g of omega-6, which really is not a concern.

Also, while excessive Omega-6 consumption is an issue, we do need O6 in our diets. In most healthy, natural food diets, working purposely to avoid O6 at every cost isn't necessary. Its the modern western diet of massive vegetable oils where the issue comes into play.

Br
 
This app needs rep points!!!

Agreed BR,

Why I stick to small amounts of olive oil, avacado and coconut oil. Some nuts but only unshelled walnuts and almonds
 
Why don't u just eat your fats instead of getting it from an extract... I'd rather eat my calories than supplement them
 
runner_79 said:
This app needs rep points!!!

Agreed BR,

Why I stick to small amounts of olive oil, avacado and coconut oil. Some nuts but only unshelled walnuts and almonds
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Only unshelled? Someones picky..
Its crazy how much debating there is on weight loss. Seriously its not rocket science. Less calories in than out.
 
Turnitup122 said:
Only unshelled? Someones picky..
Its crazy how much debating there is on weight loss. Seriously its not rocket science. Less calories in than out.
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^^^I might actually hypothesize that in some individuals, the stressing and obsessing over minute details of exactly what and how much to eat may increase in stress hormones (adrenal glucocorticoids) and cause a negative shift in the balance of fat:muscle mass loss.

br
 
Yes, primarily cortisol release. Cort will have the greatest metabolic effects - catbolism, insulin resistance, etc. Norepinephrine is also released, which can lead to some to fatigue and possible depression (drastic effects) when chronically elevated.

Cortisol during exercise = good
Cortisol during resting conditions = bad

Br
 
ZiR RED said:
Yes, primarily cortisol release. Cort will have the greatest metabolic effects - catbolism, insulin resistance, etc. Norepinephrine is also released, which can lead to some to fatigue and possible depression (drastic effects) when chronically elevated.

Cortisol during exercise = good
Cortisol during resting conditions = bad

Br
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I really, really hope more people see this post. I'm sure that you're just as annoyed as I am about the "1 hour rule" when it comes to training because of the fear of cortisol. So few people understand that cortisol has a huge function and doesn't just lead to muscle catabolism.
 
Rodja said:
I really, really hope more people see this post. I'm sure that you're just as annoyed as I am about the "1 hour rule" when it comes to training because of the fear of cortisol. So few people understand that cortisol has a huge function and doesn't just lead to muscle catabolism.
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Very annoyed, ad nauseum. And I'd rep this if it would let me.

Br
 
So I thought I read that almond milk has twice the calcium of regular milk per serving.

I just bought a few gallons to try this week, after reading this thread, not totally sold on it yet.
 
So the general consensus on milk is it hinders fat loss, ive pretty much had 12-20 ounces a day for years and even through hard training and good diet besides that ive always been kind of soft. After reading this im probally going to try to eliminate milk, and cheese from my diet and see what happens i think it could be a variable i havent thought of yet.

Now my question is, i absolutely love greek yogurt i usually have about 6 ounces 1-2 hours before bed time now i know Greek Yogurt isn't very high in lactose and is a great source of protein but is it fine to keep just that in my diet.
 
Maybe Im just paleo but my though is cutting = no dairy. At all.
Even during my weight gain periods I really dont consume milk/cheese/yogurt/etc. Once in a while in a cheat meal should the recipe call for it. Or a little bit in my coffee
 
Not afraid of dairy, When not cutting eat all the yogurt, cheese and milk I want, on a cut I reduce some but not a lot, even when cutting I go through tons of half and half. For me the key has been to cut out grains and processed sugar
 
truthornothin said:
Not afraid of dairy, When not cutting eat all the yogurt, cheese and milk I want, on a cut I reduce some but not a lot, even when cutting I go through tons of half and half. For me the key has been to cut out grains and processed sugar
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It's still processed?
 
Greek yogurt and certain cheeses (the stronger, aged cheeses such as chedder etc.) contain some really beneficial enzymes and probiotics.
 
jumpshot903 said:
So the general consensus on milk is it hinders fat loss,
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Why would you come to that consensus? I have no problem losing fat drinking milk, and milk/dairy is recommended in Tom Venuto's "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" and he regularly gets down to 3% BF for photo shoots...
 
Vengeance187 said:
Why would you come to that consensus? I have no problem losing fat drinking milk, and milk/dairy is recommended in Tom Venuto's "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" and he regularly gets down to 3% BF for photo shoots...
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Growth promoter and also plays on insulin. Can look at coconut instead
 
Vengeance187 said:
All food causes insulin secretion. That's how the body works. Milk has a low GI...
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Full fat and raw is less problematic
 
OrganicShadow said:
Maybe Im just paleo but my though is cutting = no dairy. At all.
Even during my weight gain periods I really dont consume milk/cheese/yogurt/etc. Once in a while in a cheat meal should the recipe call for it. Or a little bit in my coffee
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your paleo?
 
Let's keep this evidence based:

Do a pubmed search and look at the medical research regarding milk/dairy consumption....

Here's what you will notice - the variability/discrepancies in the results are glaring.

Which leads me to conclude that there is a huge individualized response to dairy consumption. Some people will have absolutely no problems, others will be greatly affected, and the rest of us will be somewhere in between.

So, the consensus might be to figure out how milk effects you. If you currently drink a lot of it, then stop for 3-4 weeks and slowly reintroduce into your diet. If you notice GI disturbances (bloating, gas, diarrhea, etc.) then you may be better off with lower dairy and lower lactose dairy (greek yogurt, cottage cheese, cheddar cheese, etc.). If you feel some nasty effects, then its probably best you avoid milk. If you feel nothing at all, then pat yourself on the back, and enjoy some a cookie with that milk.

Br
 
ZiR RED said:
Let's keep this evidence based:

Do a pubmed search and look at the medical research regarding milk/dairy consumption....
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As for milk and weight loss there is this - Invalid Link Removed

Granted there is issues with the study such as that is funded by the NATIONAL DAIRY COUNCIL which would obviously taint the results of their findings.

And then on the other hand there is this

Nov. 19, 2004 -- A new study casts doubt on earlier, highly publicized findings suggesting that dairy foods burn off body fat.

Only last April, a University of Tennessee study found that people on high-dairy, low-calorie diets lost a lot more weight than those on low-dairy, low-calorie diets.

The National Dairy Council funded that study. Another dairy industry-supported study was expected to confirm these findings. But that didn't happen, says study leader Jean Ruth Harvey-Berino, PhD, professor and chairwoman of the department of nutrition and food science at the University of Vermont.

"When we got our results, it was quite disappointing that there were no differences between the high- and low-dairy groups in our study," Harvey-Berino tells WebMD. "It may be that a low-calorie, high-dairy diet may offer just two pounds more weight loss than a low-calorie, low-dairy diet. But it is not going to be a magic bullet."

Harvey-Berino presented the findings at this week's Las Vegas meeting of the North American Association for the Study of Obesity.

Calories Trump High-Dairy/Low-Dairy Difference

Harvey-Berino and colleagues studied 54 borderline-obese people with an average age of 45. All got a low-calorie diet and a behavior-modification plan that included plenty of exercise. Half the subjects were restricted to only one serving of dairy food each day. The other half got three or four servings of dairy food daily.

After six months, everybody lost weight -- 22 pounds in the high-dairy group and 20.5 pounds in the low-dairy group. The difference is not statistically significant; that is, the difference is so small it could be due to chance.

That's a far cry from findings reported last April by Michael Zemel, PhD, director of the University of Tennessee Nutrition Institute. Zemel's high-dairy group lost about the same amount of weight: about 24 pounds. But his low-dairy group lost a lot less: only 15 pounds if they didn't get calcium supplements and only 19 pounds if they did get calcium pills.

What's going on? Zemel says the weight of evidence in multiple studies since 1999 shows that dairy foods help the body burn fat. He suggests that people in the Harvey-Berino's low-dairy group may have eaten so few calories that they didn't get any additional benefit from dairy foods.

"You can only metabolize so much body fat," Zemel tells WebMD. "If you are on a diet with modest calorie restriction, you can improve that effect with dairy foods. However, if you are already restricting calories a lot, you may be at your body's maximum effect and may not see any extra effect of dairy foods."
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This further shows that the first so called "study" results were in fact tainted which was expected considering their funding source. When you have the national dairy council funding a study to show if dairy is beneficial in weight loss, of course the study results will show yes. As you can see the follow up study was never performed and when someone else tried to duplicate the study to confirm the findings it was quite different (only 2 pounds loss).

And to keep this fair here is one from pubmed

The impact of calcium and dairy product consumption on weight loss.
Harvey-Berino J, Gold BC, Lauber R, Starinski A.
Source

Department of Nutrition and Food Sciences, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT 05405-0148, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

Recent evidence suggests that diets high in calcium and dairy products are associated with lower body weight, particularly lower body fat levels. The purpose of this study was to compare weight and body fat loss on a calorie-restricted, low-dairy (CR) vs. high-dairy (CR+D) diet.
RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES:

Fifty-four subjects (BMI 30 +/- 2.5 kg/m2, 45 +/- 6.6 years, 4 men) were randomly assigned to calorie-restricted (-500 kcal/d) low-dairy calcium (n = 29; approximately 1 serving dairy/d, 500 mg/d calcium) or high-dairy calcium (n = 25; 3 to 4 servings dairy/d, 1200 to 1400 mg/d calcium) diets for 12 months. Main outcome measures included change in weight (kilograms) and body fat (percentage).
RESULTS:

There were no significant differences between groups at baseline. At 12 months, weight and body fat loss were not significantly different. Subjects in the CR vs. CR+D conditions lost 9.6 +/- 6.5 vs. 10.8 +/- 5.9 kg (p = 0.56) and 9.0 +/- 3.8 vs. 10.1 +/- 3.6 kg body fat (p = 0.37).
DISCUSSION:

These findings suggest that a high-dairy calcium diet does not substantially improve weight loss beyond what can be achieved in a behavioral intervention.

PMID: 16286519
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All in all.. Milk isnt magic.. it isnt going to make or break your goal of weight loss..Ultimately calories in vs calories out is still what determines weight loss and gain.
 
I was referring more to the effects of dairy on insulin and inflammation.

But here, you will see a multitude of studies showing various effects in different populations


Good result:
Am J Clin Nutr. 2011 Aug;94(2):422-30. Epub 2011 Jun 29.
Dairy attentuates oxidative and inflammatory stress in metabolic syndrome.
Stancliffe RA, Thorpe T, Zemel MB.
Source

Department of Nutrition, The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996-1920, USA.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Oxidative and inflammatory stress are elevated in obesity and are further augmented in metabolic syndrome. We showed previously that dairy components suppress the adipocyte- and macrophage-mediated generation of reactive oxygen species and inflammatory cytokines and systemic oxidative and inflammatory biomarkers in obesity.
OBJECTIVE:

The objective of this study was to determine the early (7 d) and sustained (4 and 12 wk) effects of adequate-dairy (AD) compared with low-dairy (LD) diets in subjects with metabolic syndrome.
DESIGN:

Forty overweight and obese adults with metabolic syndrome were randomly assigned to receive AD (3.5 daily servings) or LD (<0.5 daily servings) weight-maintenance diets for 12 wk. Oxidative and inflammatory biomarkers were assessed at 0, 1, 4, and 12 wk as primary outcomes; body weight and composition were measured at 0, 4, and 12 wk as secondary outcomes.
RESULTS:

AD decreased malondialdehyde and oxidized LDL at 7 d (35% and 11%, respectively; P < 0.01), with further decreases by 12 wk. Inflammatory markers were suppressed with intake of AD, with decreases in tumor necrosis factor-α at 7 d and further reductions through 12 wk (35%; P < 0.05); decreases in interleukin-6 (21%; P < 0.02) and monocyte chemoattractant protein 1 (14% decrease at 4 wk, 24% decrease at 12 wk; P < 0.05); and a corresponding 55% increase in adiponectin at 12 wk (P < 0.01). LD exerted no effect on oxidative or inflammatory markers. Diet had no effect on body weight; however, AD significantly reduced waist circumference and trunk fat (P < 0.01 for both), and LD exerted no effect.
CONCLUSION:

An increase in dairy intake attenuates oxidative and inflammatory stress in metabolic syndrome.
This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01266330.

PMID:
21715516
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID: PMC3142721

Free PMC Article
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Here we see dairy may decrease inflammation (statistically significant yes, but is it clinically significant?!?!)
Br J Nutr. 2010 Nov;104(10):1523-7. Epub 2010 Jun 28.
Effects of low-fat dairy consumption on markers of low-grade systemic inflammation and endothelial function in overweight and obese subjects: an intervention study.
van Meijl LE, Mensink RP.
Source

Department of Human Biology, NUTRIM School for Nutrition, Toxicology and Metabolism, Maastricht University Medical Centre+, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]
Abstract

Although increased concentrations of plasma inflammatory markers are not one of the criteria to diagnose the metabolic syndrome, low-grade systemic inflammation is receiving large attention as a metabolic syndrome component and cardiovascular risk factor. As several epidemiological studies have suggested a negative relationship between low-fat dairy consumption and the metabolic syndrome, we decided to investigate the effects of low-fat dairy consumption on inflammatory markers and adhesion molecules in overweight and obese subjects in an intervention study. Thirty-five healthy subjects (BMI>27 kg/m²) consumed, in a random order, low-fat dairy products (500 ml low-fat milk and 150 g low-fat yogurt) or carbohydrate-rich control products (600 ml fruit juice and three fruit biscuits) daily for 8 weeks. Plasma concentrations of TNF-α were decreased by 0.16 (SD 0.50) pg/ml (P = 0.070), and soluble TNF-α receptor-1 (s-TNFR-1) was increased by 110.0 (SD 338.4) pg/ml (P = 0.062) after the low-fat dairy period than after the control period. s-TNFR-2 was increased by 227.0 (SD 449.0) pg/ml (P = 0.020) by the dairy intervention. As a result, the TNF-α index, defined as the TNF-α:s-TNFR-2 ratio, was decreased by 0.000053 (SD 0.00012) (P = 0.015) after the dairy diet consumption. Low-fat dairy consumption had no effect on IL-6, monocyte chemoattractant protein-1, intracellular adhesion molecule-1 and vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 concentrations. The present results indicate that in overweight and obese subjects, low-fat dairy consumption for 8 weeks may increase concentrations of s-TNFR compared with carbohydrate-rich product consumption, but that it has no effects on other markers of chronic inflammation and endothelial function.
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No effect:
J Obes. 2011;2011:989657. Epub 2011 Sep 14.
Dairy Foods in a Moderate Energy Restricted Diet Do Not Enhance Central Fat, Weight, and Intra-Abdominal Adipose Tissue Losses nor Reduce Adipocyte Size or Inflammatory Markers in Overweight and Obese Adults: A Controlled Feeding Study.
Van Loan MD, Keim NL, Adams SH, Souza E, Woodhouse LR, Thomas A, Witbracht M, Gertz ER, Piccolo B, Bremer AA, Spurlock M.
Source

Obesity & Metabolism Research Unit, Western Human Nutrition Research Center, USDA, ARS, 430 West Health Science Drive, Davis, CA 95616, USA.
Abstract

Background. Research on dairy foods to enhance weight and fat loss when incorporated into a modest weight loss diet has had mixed results. Objective. A 15-week controlled feeding study to determine if dairy foods enhance central fat and weight loss when incorporated in a modest energy restricted diet of overweight and obese adults. Design. A 3-week run-in to establish energy needs; a 12-week 500 kcal/d energy reduction with 71 low-dairy-consuming overweight and obese adults randomly assigned to diets: ≤1 serving dairy/d (low dairy, LD) or ≤4 servings dairy/d (adequate dairy, AD). All foods were weighed and provided by the metabolic kitchen. Weight, fat, intra-abdominal adipose tissue (IAAT), subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) macrophage number, SAT inflammatory gene expression, and circulating cytokines were measured. Results. No diet differences were observed in weight, fat, or IAAT loss; nor SAT mRNA expression of inflammation, circulating cytokines, fasting lipids, glucose, or insulin. There was a significant increase (P = 0.02) in serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D in the AD group. Conclusion. Whether increased dairy intake during weight loss results in greater weight and fat loss for individuals with metabolic syndrome deserves investigation. Assessment of appetite, hunger, and satiety with followup on weight regain should be considered.
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Here we see a negative correlation between milk consumption and weight over a 6 year period in over-weight men, but a positive correlation between yogurt consumption and weight in normal-weight women:
Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Nov;88(5):1248-55.
Dairy consumption and 6-y changes in body weight and waist circumference in middle-aged French adults.
Vergnaud AC, Péneau S, Chat-Yung S, Kesse E, Czernichow S, Galan P, Hercberg S, Bertrais S.
Source

INSERM U557, INRA U1125, CNAM EA3200, Paris 13 University, and the Research Unit on Nutritional Epidemiology, CRNH IdF, Bobigny, France. [email protected]
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Some studies have shown an inverse relation between calcium intake and body weight or fat mass.
OBJECTIVE:

We aimed to investigate the relations of dairy consumption and calcium intake with 6-y changes in body weight and waist circumference (WC).
DESIGN:

Multivariate analysis of variance according to dairy consumption or calcium intake quartile was presented, stratified by sex and body weight status at baseline, in 2267 middle-aged French adults.
RESULTS:

The associations between dairy products and anthropometric changes differed according to sex and overweight status at baseline. In overweight men only, 6-y changes in weight and WC were inversely associated with the consumption of dairy products-especially that of milk (P = 0.02 for both weight and WC changes) and yogurt (P = 0.01 and 0.03 for weight and WC changes, respectively). No relation was observed with cheese and calcium intake. Positive relations were found between milk consumption and WC change in overweight women and between yogurt consumption and weight change in normal-weight women. Multivariate analyses showed a trend toward increases in weight with high dairy calcium intakes in normal-weight women.
CONCLUSIONS:

The relation of dairy products and calcium intake with changes in weight and WC may differ according to sex, initial body-weight status, and type of dairy products. The negative association between dairy products and anthropometric changes observed in overweight men was not explained by dairy calcium intakes, which suggests that other components of dairy products or specific dietary patterns associated with dairy consumption may help to explain the observed associations.
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Br
 
people on here try to be eccentric with their diets. its funny.

nope, i only drink puertorican breast milk, raw, unshelled magical nuts, and only eat beef who's father was a famous bull killed by a legendary matador.
 
ZiR RED said:
I was referring more to the effects of dairy on insulin and inflammation.

But here, you will see a multitude of studies showing various effects in different populations


Good result:



Here we see dairy may decrease inflammation (statistically significant yes, but is it clinically significant?!?!)



No effect:


Here we see a negative correlation between milk consumption and weight over a 6 year period in over-weight men, but a positive correlation between yogurt consumption and weight in normal-weight women:


Br
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Im sorry I thought the thread was about milk in relation to weight loss.. my bad :) I didn't go back and read all the pages just the title of the tread and a couple post...

As far as milk in regards to insulin and inflammation.. I would expect studies to be all over the place.. As you prolly know by most of my post on nutrition I am a follower of team paleo and according to people like Cordain it really comes down to if you have adapted to dairy yet or not. Instead of trying to make a blanket statement to apply to everyone I like the approach of Sisson which is just to try and cut it out for a while and then add it back in and see. Personally I cant tolerate casein so milk isnt much of an option for me
 
I have a close friend with Chrons disease who goes into serious flare ups when consuming dairy or tree nuts. (Whats funny is alcohol doesnt really bother him). Ive started mimicking his dietary strategy: only shop along the perimeter of the supermarket and avoid the dairy section (minus eggs).
 
OrganicShadow said:
I have a close friend with Chrons disease who goes into serious flare ups when consuming dairy or tree nuts. (Whats funny is alcohol doesnt really bother him). Ive started mimicking his dietary strategy: only shop along the perimeter of the supermarket and avoid the dairy section (minus eggs).
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why no eggs? allergy?
 
I meant that eggs were fine. Hes supposed to stay more organic with meats and eggs - Im not that crazy about it.
 
OrganicShadow said:
I meant that eggs were fine. Hes supposed to stay more organic with meats and eggs - Im not that crazy about it.
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I have a lady the next town over that raises chickens and sells me the eggs. I pay $2 for a dozen of free range chicken eggs!
 
JudoJosh said:
I have a lady the next town over that raises chickens and sells me the eggs. I pay $2 for a dozen of free range chicken eggs!
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Hating so much right now lol...we pay $7 for 12. They taste the best too
 
Nothing beats locally grown/raised. Whether its eggs, produce, dairy, or meat. So much better than industrial farming. And, supermarket organics aren't very much better than supermarket non-organics.

Br
 
ZiR RED said:
Nothing beats locally grown/raised. Whether its eggs, produce, dairy, or meat. So much better than industrial farming. And, supermarket organics aren't very much better than supermarket non-organics.

Br
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Very true! It is a shame what they are allowed to classify as "free range"

I also get my beef from a local farmer. It's cool the way it works. You put an order in for a share of a cow and they raise the cow specifically for you and you can drive to the farm and see your cow out in the meadows grazing.

www.eatwild.com is where I found both of my farmers
 
JudoJosh said:
Very true! It is a shame what they are allowed to classify as "free range"

I also get my beef from a local farmer. It's cool the way it works. You put an order in for a share of a cow and they raise the cow specifically for you and you can drive to the farm and see your cow out in the meadows grazing.

Invalid Link Removed is where I found both of my farmers
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man I wish Japan had something like this....
 
So far Im liking the almond milk, its a nice alternative. Any other diary products substitute suggestions?
 
I agree, I am not sure it is slim milk that are hindering your results, but possibly the added calories from all the protein shakes with milk you are intaking.
 
Hi dear,
You should not use the milk,ghee, cream and other dairy products to avoid the weight gaining. Rather use should use the boiled vegetables, grapes fruits juice, and green tea etc.
 
Milk and cream are great for bulking. It's what the old timers used. But it will smooth you out and can cause bloating.
 
I LOVE MILK

I prob drink 1/2 gallon a day... good stuff....


anyone else excited its bout to be egg nog season again???? I AM! lol



sorry totally off topic.
 
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