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SAN Na-R-ALA or Glycobol when in low carb?

mr.cooper69 said:
I was referring specifically to gymnema sylvestre in slin-sane.

An ingredient that increases insulin output would be great post workout.
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Honestly havent looked at it too much (which is funny b/c I used the product when it was launched a year or so ago). Anyways five minutes on medline told me:

Potentially toxic
bioavailability issues
Good for diabetics
Good for lipids
Weight loss studies measured total weight and BMI. (not bf%)
It reduced results of (-)-hydroxycitric acid supplementation (or at least didnt have as great of effect as (-)-hydroxycitric acid alone)

That was just skimmed abstracts so I could be missing something major. But what you tend to find is a lot of this stuff is good for diabetics but doesnt result in much of an effect in healthy human males. I outlined another one in this Invalid Link Removed.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
The studies on the majority of these compounds are not in vivo. So comparing them to healthy human baseline insulin levels is difficult. You statement regarding it being a waste pwo would also indicate you think humalog pwo would not provide any benefit. In that case I bet you believe Jay Cutler is natural as well? Your analogy should be "it would be like hitting the nitrous when your already going 100mph". This of course, assumes they actually stimulate insulin secretion (refer back to sentence 1 regarding the limited in vivo research).

Individuals with a high baseline insulin level are typically more prone to adipose/weight gain. So no I would not agree.
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Reference:

Nutr Rev. 2006 Oct;64(10 Pt 1):435-48.

Dietary composition and weight loss: can we individualize dietary prescriptions according to insulin sensitivity or secretion status?

Pittas AG, Roberts SB.


Source

Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Metabolism, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts 02111, USA. [email protected]


Abstract

There is considerable uncertainty over whether any one dietary pattern broadly facilitates weight loss or maintenance of weight loss, and current dietary guidelines recommend a spectrum of dietary composition for the general population. However, emerging evidence suggests that specific dietary compositions may work better for identifiable groups of overweight/obese individuals based on their individual metabolic status. In particular, characteristics of insulin dynamics, such as insulin sensitivity or insulin secretion status, may interact with diets that vary in macronutrient composition to influence the weight loss achieved with a hypocaloric diet.


PMID: 17063925 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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This is all very interesting, thank you all guys :)

As for me I think Ima go for 1 cap with my pwo meal and 1 or 2 on the refeed day,
With my BF% it won't take more than a week to see if that' protocol is gonna work for me or not
 
Royd The Noyd said:
The studies on the majority of these compounds are not in vivo. So comparing them to healthy human baseline insulin levels is difficult. You statement regarding it being a waste pwo would also indicate you think humalog pwo would not provide any benefit. In that case I bet you believe Jay Cutler is natural as well? Your analogy should be "it would be like hitting the nitrous when your already going 100mph".
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you cant compare injecting insulin to a product that 'should' increase insulin. that would be like saying a shot of test is the same as a natty tbooster.

and isnt jay cutler natty? :confused:
 
Royd The Noyd said:
The application is still the same.
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Again, I was posting in regards to slin-sane. I believe Nico is in agreement with you about the "hitting the nitrous at 100mph." It is a waste to consume a GDA at this time (namely Slin-sane or other Gymnema-heavy GDAs) IN COMPARISON to other times of day.
 
call me andrew . . . freaks me out when people call me nico, lol

and yeah I would change my analogy . . . I left it in your quote for a reason I just forgot to type it
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Again, I was posting in regards to slin-sane. I believe Nico is in agreement with you about the "hitting the nitrous at 100mph." It is a waste to consume a GDA at this time (namely Slin-sane or other Gymnema-heavy GDAs) IN COMPARISON to other times of day.
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See post #51 regarding slin sane. I am not in agreement with with Andrew (re-read post #50). Why do you want spikes or increases in insulin when your body is more apt to store it as adipose tissue?
 
Royd The Noyd said:
See post #51 regarding slin sane. I am not in agreement with with Andrew (re-read post #50). Why do you want spikes or increases in insulin when your body is more apt to store it as adipose tissue?
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My post with regards to Gymnema has nothing to do with those aspects. Gymnema blocks carbohydrate absorption, which is highly unfavorable during the postworkout period (assuming nutrient timing matters, which it largely does not).

I don't want to spike insulin. I don't care about insulin. I'm merely making this post for OP who does appear to care. Nutrient timing is irrelevant for direct effects on body composition. In the special case that someone has a clinical insulin issue, then I would get real medicine, not a GDA.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
My post with regards to Gymnema has nothing to do with those aspects. Gymnema blocks carbohydrate absorption, which is highly unfavorable during the postworkout period (assuming nutrient timing matters, which it largely does not).

I don't want to spike insulin. I don't care about insulin. I'm merely making this post for OP who does appear to care. Nutrient timing is irrelevant for direct effects on body composition. In the special case that someone has a clinical insulin issue, then I would get real medicine, not a GDA.
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Where does gymnema block carbohydrate absorption? In the gut? That's typically where it happens (think the Alli of carbs). You're referring to it as a GDA which indicates it is not being blocked intestinally or in the gut since glucose is being disposed of from the blood.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Where does gymnema block carbohydrate absorption? In the gut? That's typically where it happens (think the Alli of carbs). You're referring to it as a GDA which indicates it is not being blocked intestinally or in the gut since glucose is being disposed of from the blood.
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Yes, Gymnema blocks carb absorption in the gut (as well as taste receptors in the mouth, irrelevant here).

Again, I was referring to SLIN-SANE. Slin-sane is a GDA due to the banaba.
 
Kinda getting a bit confused :D

what I got from the discussion is:

We have fast carbs pwo because of the natural insulin spike, so using a gda (let's say Glycobol which happened to be
the one I got) pwo would be less effective -and possibly store fats- COMPARED to using it in any other moment of the day?
(before any other complex carbs meal)

or

Assuming Glycobol is actually boosting insulin,
if taken pwo this will skyrocket insulin so it would still be beneficial?


but also, timing is not so important (so maybe it's safer to avoid to take gda in that possible storing fats effect window)
 
Whatever you do or eat Gluconeogenesis (is the process of synthesizing glucose from non-carbohydrate sources) is inevitable in the human body.

take a look to this:

Overview of Carbohydrate Metabolism
Invalid Link Removed

Glycogenesis, Glycogenolysis and Gluconeogenesis
Invalid Link Removed
 
AutoKal47 said:
Kinda getting a bit confused :D

what I got from the discussion is:

We have fast carbs pwo because of the natural insulin spike, so using a gda (let's say Glycobol which happened to be
the one I got) pwo would be less effective -and possibly store fats- COMPARED to using it in any other moment of the day?
(before any other complex carbs meal)
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No. The same reason you have fast carbs (or a large glycemic load) pwo is to spike insulin and shuttle nutrients to skeletal muscle which is primed to receive those nutrients pwo. Youre statement is the exact opposite of what a person would want.

or

Assuming Glycobol is actually boosting insulin,
if taken pwo this will skyrocket insulin so it would still be beneficial?
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^This, assuming it actually acts as a inuslin mimetic.
 
MAxximal said:
Whatever you do or eat Gluconeogenesis (is the process of synthesizing glucose from non-carbohydrate sources) is inevitable in the human body.

take a look to this:

Overview of Carbohydrate Metabolism
Invalid Link Removed

Glycogenesis, Glycogenolysis and Gluconeogenesis
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with the conversation?
 
Royd The Noyd said:
No. The same reason you have fast carbs (or a large glycemic load) pwo is to spike insulin and shuttle nutrients to skeletal muscle which is primed to receive those nutrients pwo. Youre statement is the exact opposite of what a person would want.



^This, assuming it actually acts as a inuslin mimetic.
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Ok got it :)

Just out of curiosity (I've never used a gda of any kind before, nor glycobol nor any other so I have no
direct experience) and if you feel like it,
you seem very skeptical on the insulin mimetic capabilities of nutrient partitioners,
i thought Na-Rala had proven to be effective as nutrients partitioner, if so,
would that capability not necessarily indicate an insulin mimic capability as well?
 
AutoKal47 said:
Ok got it :)

Just out of curiosity (I've never used a gda of any kind before, nor glycobol nor any other so I have no
direct experience) and if you feel like it,
you seem very skeptical on the insulin mimetic capabilities of nutrient partitioners,
i thought Na-Rala had proven to be effective as nutrients partitioner, if so,
would that capability not necessarily indicate an insulin mimic capability as well?
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I'm more skeptical that they actually act as a nutrient partitioner. These terms get thrown around a lot. There probably is some things that cause insulin increases and these certainly wouldnt be bad pwo. If you had a true nutrient partitioner that was favorable to skeletal muscle you could dose it anytime. But think about it this way...the brain is the human bodies first priority when it comes to fuel (glucose). If you had something that shuttled glucose to muscle over all other tissue wouldnt that be a bit worrie some? I would say so. It's possible some do prefer adipose over muscle, but the research is all in vitro and limited. There is a good podcast called BodyRx with Vince Andrich and Dr. Scott Connelly. They talked about this endlessly one episode.

Na-rala is a really good supplement. But more so for it's anti-oxidant and other health benefits.

MAxximal said:
every person is different when ingest carbs so is good understand all from the beginning maybe you know it but not all the people here know this.
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That's like posting that "fitness" is important in a thread about bench press form.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
I'm more skeptical that they actually act as a nutrient partitioner. These terms get thrown around a lot. There probably is some things that cause insulin increases and these certainly wouldnt be bad pwo. If you had a true nutrient partitioner that was favorable to skeletal muscle you could dose it anytime. But think about it this way...the brain is the human bodies first priority when it comes to fuel (glucose). If you had something that shuttled glucose to muscle over all other tissue wouldnt that be a bit worrie some? I would say so. It's possible some do prefer adipose over muscle, but the research is all in vitro and limited. There is a good podcast called BodyRx with Vince Andrich and Dr. Scott Connelly. They talked about this endlessly one episode.

Na-rala is a really good supplement. But more so for it's anti-oxidant and other health benefits.
Click to expand...

Makes sense indeed
I guess is easy to believe that is something that allows you to eat whatever you want
and the thing will take care of shuttling the junk/turn it into muscle, with no sides. It'd be great, and probably cost a lot more :D

I rely on my diet and wo, always have, I'll see if this one has some benefit, Glycobol seems to have good feedback,
and yet having such low BF% my balance is easy to mess up, I'll start to use it only on my refeed day, which will start on my heaviest
wo day (pwo), and take it from there, if BF won't go up I'll try it pwo in the other days too.

thank you

I'll also try to find that episode :)
 
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