Na-R-ALA vs. R-ALA

[BurghHardcore]

Looking to pick up a good ALA product tomorrow when I order from Nutra. It's basically between Primaforce's brand of R-ALA (100mg per seving) and Nutra's Na-R-ALA (standardized to 100mg R-ALA per serving). Anyone here use both? I'd really like to save the $10 price difference (primaforce is cheaper) if I could and put it to use somewhere else, but is the Sodium attached to the ALA really making that much of a difference? Do I have to worry THAT much about heat damaging the R-ALA and having it basically be useless if I buy Primaforce's version?

 

[nattydisaster]

Na-R-ALA is supposed to be better absorbed and better at lowering blood glucose

 

[BurghHardcore]

Na-R-ALA is supposed to be better absorbed and better at lowering blood glucose

Thanks. I figured it was the optimal choice.

 

[Clickster]

Na-R-ALA is supposed to be better absorbed and better at lowering blood glucose

This is correct. That is what is supposed to be the difference.

 

[Milas]

I just get either Need2Slin or Glycobol (when on sale), and each pill has 100-125mg Na-R-ALA, plus the other goodies. At 120 caps a bottle, it works out pretty well taking 1 cap AM and 1 cap PM.

Either way I'd go for the Na-R-ALA personally if I'm already spending a good amount on health related supplements.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Na-R-ALA is supposed to be better absorbed and better at lowering blood glucose

This is correct. That is what is supposed to be the difference.

Do you guys have any references on healthy humans for this? I havent really looked that hard but hear it echo'd all the time.

What is your goal exactly by using any form of ala? The study on obese and pre-obese subjects in 2010 was pretty significant imho and they only used regular ala.

 

[Milas]

I saw the ALA obesity studies, but the studies on ALA that scared me showed that it led to reduced life expectancy in rats (mice?) compared to R-ALA or S-ALA alone. Something about the racemic mix?

Either way, I'm not going to risk ALA, I'll only go R-ALA, K-R-ALA or Na-R-ALA until I see some other evidence (which I'm sure there will be, but playing it safe for now).

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I saw the ALA obesity studies, but the studies on ALA that scared me showed that it led to reduced life expectancy in rats (mice?) compared to R-ALA or S-ALA alone. Something about the racemic mix?

Either way, I'm not going to risk ALA, I'll only go R-ALA, K-R-ALA or Na-R-ALA until I see some other evidence (which I'm sure there will be, but playing it safe for now).

I'm almost 100% positive the same was shown for other forms of ala as well now. It's somewhere on M&M.

I suppose we just have a different line of thinking. I'd rather be safe on my wallet and stick with 900mg's of regular primaforce ala for the cheap.

 

[Red Dog]

Looking to pick up a good ALA product tomorrow when I order from Nutra. It's basically between Primaforce's brand of R-ALA (100mg per seving) and Nutra's Na-R-ALA (standardized to 100mg R-ALA per serving). Anyone here use both? I'd really like to save the $10 price difference (primaforce is cheaper) if I could and put it to use somewhere else, but is the Sodium attached to the ALA really making that much of a difference? Do I have to worry THAT much about heat damaging the R-ALA and having it basically be useless if I buy Primaforce's version?

Just wanted to say that I use Primaforce's R-ALA for nutrient partition in the post-workout window in conjunction with other supplements and I'm happy with it. The absorption rate may in fact be lower with R-ALA, but my the amount of money in my wallet stays higher.

That being said, it's tough to quantify the effectiveness of this sort of product unless you were using few other supplements or else introduced only this one into a relatively static training/diet environment.

Anyways, +1 to Primaforce.

 

[MAxximal]

ALA competes with vitamin B7 (biotin) for access to certain enzymes and molecular transporters, it would be sensible to take a biotin supplement if one is supplementing with R-ALA.


regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended

 

[Milas]

R-ALA is probably good enough, but I'd still avoid racemic ALA.

I have some of the Primaforce R-ALA, I think it has Biotin in it.

I still like taking Glycobol or Need2Slin for my Na-R-ALA!

 

[MAxximal]

R-ALA is probably good enough, but I'd still avoid racemic ALA.

I have some of the Primaforce R-ALA, I think it has Biotin in it.

I still like taking Glycobol or Need2Slin for my Na-R-ALA!

Alpha Lipoc Acid is a good supplement the only thing is you need know the effects in the body (effect on blood glucose)

When and How?

Personally if I used 300-600mg a day is ok for me but I test up to 1500mg daily and not is the same effect so here apply this (much is not better)

 

[Milas]

I keep the Na-R-ALA at 200-450mg a day. Is that a good level?

 

[MAxximal]

I keep the Na-R-ALA at 200-450mg a day. Is that a good level?

For Na-R-ALA I used up to 600mg daily and I LOVE but watch it when my sugar levels start to drop my cravings becomes uncontrollable.

(this is in keto diet)

 

[Uziel]

ALA competes with vitamin B7 (biotin) for access to certain enzymes and molecular transporters, it would be sensible to take a biotin supplement if one is supplementing with R-ALA.


regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended

Alpha Lipoc Acid is a good supplement the only thing is you need know the effects in the body (effect on blood glucose)

When and How?

Personally if I used 300-600mg a day is ok for me but I test up to 1500mg daily and not is the same effect so here apply this (much is not better)

For Na-R-ALA I used up to 600mg daily and I LOVE but watch it when my sugar levels start to drop my cravings becomes uncontrollable.

(this is in keto diet)

Amazing Maxx!

 

[BurghHardcore]

Do you guys have any references on healthy humans for this? I havent really looked that hard but hear it echo'd all the time.

What is your goal exactly by using any form of ala? The study on obese and pre-obese subjects in 2010 was pretty significant imho and they only used regular ala.

I'd be using it post workout for nutrient partitioning as well as right before bed on an empty stomach. I've just heard good things about it all around and haven't supplemented with it in years actually. Also can't go wrong with it's antioxidant properties, but mainly just to try in aiding leaning out a little bit.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

ALA competes with vitamin B7 (biotin) for access to certain enzymes and molecular transporters, it would be sensible to take a biotin supplement if one is supplementing with R-ALA.


regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended

The result of a large human study showed the opposite

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I'd be using it post workout for nutrient partitioning as well as right before bed on an empty stomach. I've just heard good things about it all around and haven't supplemented with it in years actually. Also can't go wrong with it's antioxidant properties, but mainly just to try in aiding leaning out a little bit.

In that case I would probably choose something more exotic like 4-hydroxy isoleucine pwo instead of something like ala with anti oxidant properties. Ala would be fine before bed.
Inflammation/oxidation pwo isn't a bad thing within limits.

 

[MAxximal]

The result of a large human study showed the opposite

everyone is different and you know people using thyroids medications alpha lipoic acid affects this drugs…

 

[Outstanding]

Na-R-ALA is supposed to be better absorbed and better at lowering blood glucose

Although, I have never been able to come to a total 100% conclusion where the two are concerned, so I often implement BOTH into my regimen in a 2/1 ratio with r-ala leading the mg intake.

Also, Primaforce's is expensive compared to the brand/version I get, which unfortunately, I can't mention here on the forum, like so many other things we can't do here.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

everyone is different and you know people using thyroids medications alpha lipoic acid affects this drugs…

Wut? What do DDI's have to do with healthy people using ala?

 

[MAxximal]

Thyroid-regulating medications, Levothyroxine -- Apha-lipoic acid may lower levels of thyroid hormone. Blood hormone levels and thyroid function tests should be monitored closely in people taking thyroid hormones who are also taking alpha-lipoic acid.

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid on the peripheral conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and on serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels.

Segermann J, Hotze A, Ulrich H, Rao GS.

Institute of Clinical Biochemistry, University of Bonn, Fed. Rep. of Germany.

The influence of alpha-lipoic acid (LA, thioctic acid, CAS 62-46-4) on thyroid hormone metabolism and serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels was investigated. In the first setup of experiments administration of LA together with thyroxine (T4) for 9 days suppressed the T4 induced increase of T3 generation by 56%. This suppression was similar to that affected by 6-propylthiouracil (54%). LA or T4 alone did not affect the cholesterol level, but together they led to a reduction. LA decreased the triglyceride level by 45%; the decrease induced by T4 or LA plus T4 was not significant. Total protein and albumin levels decreased by LA plus T4 treatment when compared to the LA control. The slight increase in glucose level by LA or T4 alone was not observed when they were administered together. In the second setup of experiments the administration of T4 for 22 days increased the serum T3 level 3-fold. When LA was combined with T4 and the treatment continued, the T3 production decreased by 22%. T4 reduced cholesterol level by 30%, and LA plus T4 further reduced it by 47%. The triglycerides were not affected. A moderate decrease in total protein was observed after treatment with T4 plus LA; T4 and LA plus T4 decreased the albumin level. The decrease in serum glucose by T4 recovers by LA treatment. These results demonstrate that LA interferes with the production of T3 from T4 when it is co-administered with T4. The elevated level of T3, after T4 administration, is reduced by treatment with LA.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

I'd be using it post workout for nutrient partitioning as well as right before bed on an empty stomach. I've just heard good things about it all around and haven't supplemented with it in years actually. Also can't go wrong with it's antioxidant properties, but mainly just to try in aiding leaning out a little bit.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately. And I have nothing scientific to back this up. But it would seem to me that you would be better off saving any form nutrient partitioner/insulin mimicker for your other carb meals in the day than your PWO meal. Reason being PWO your body is already in a state of ehanced nutrient partitioning and is ready to uptake the nutrients to feed your muscles. I started saving mine for other meals throughout the day where my body WASN'T already in a heightened state of nutrient partitioning.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Thyroid-regulating medications, Levothyroxine -- Apha-lipoic acid may lower levels of thyroid hormone. Blood hormone levels and thyroid function tests should be monitored closely in people taking thyroid hormones who are also taking alpha-lipoic acid.

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid on the peripheral conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and on serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels.

Segermann J, Hotze A, Ulrich H, Rao GS.

Institute of Clinical Biochemistry, University of Bonn, Fed. Rep. of Germany.

The influence of alpha-lipoic acid (LA, thioctic acid, CAS 62-46-4) on thyroid hormone metabolism and serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels was investigated. In the first setup of experiments administration of LA together with thyroxine (T4) for 9 days suppressed the T4 induced increase of T3 generation by 56%. This suppression was similar to that affected by 6-propylthiouracil (54%). LA or T4 alone did not affect the cholesterol level, but together they led to a reduction. LA decreased the triglyceride level by 45%; the decrease induced by T4 or LA plus T4 was not significant. Total protein and albumin levels decreased by LA plus T4 treatment when compared to the LA control. The slight increase in glucose level by LA or T4 alone was not observed when they were administered together. In the second setup of experiments the administration of T4 for 22 days increased the serum T3 level 3-fold. When LA was combined with T4 and the treatment continued, the T3 production decreased by 22%. T4 reduced cholesterol level by 30%, and LA plus T4 further reduced it by 47%. The triglycerides were not affected. A moderate decrease in total protein was observed after treatment with T4 plus LA; T4 and LA plus T4 decreased the albumin level. The decrease in serum glucose by T4 recovers by LA treatment. These results demonstrate that LA interferes with the production of T3 from T4 when it is co-administered with T4. The elevated level of T3, after T4 administration, is reduced by treatment with LA.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

Once again, if you missed the question:

Wut? What do DDI's have to do with healthy people using ala?

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Thyroid-regulating medications, Levothyroxine -- Apha-lipoic acid may lower levels of thyroid hormone. Blood hormone levels and thyroid function tests should be monitored closely in people taking thyroid hormones who are also taking alpha-lipoic acid.

Effect of alpha-lipoic acid on the peripheral conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and on serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels.

Segermann J, Hotze A, Ulrich H, Rao GS.

Institute of Clinical Biochemistry, University of Bonn, Fed. Rep. of Germany.

The influence of alpha-lipoic acid (LA, thioctic acid, CAS 62-46-4) on thyroid hormone metabolism and serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels was investigated. In the first setup of experiments administration of LA together with thyroxine (T4) for 9 days suppressed the T4 induced increase of T3 generation by 56%. This suppression was similar to that affected by 6-propylthiouracil (54%). LA or T4 alone did not affect the cholesterol level, but together they led to a reduction. LA decreased the triglyceride level by 45%; the decrease induced by T4 or LA plus T4 was not significant. Total protein and albumin levels decreased by LA plus T4 treatment when compared to the LA control. The slight increase in glucose level by LA or T4 alone was not observed when they were administered together. In the second setup of experiments the administration of T4 for 22 days increased the serum T3 level 3-fold. When LA was combined with T4 and the treatment continued, the T3 production decreased by 22%. T4 reduced cholesterol level by 30%, and LA plus T4 further reduced it by 47%. The triglycerides were not affected. A moderate decrease in total protein was observed after treatment with T4 plus LA; T4 and LA plus T4 decreased the albumin level. The decrease in serum glucose by T4 recovers by LA treatment. These results demonstrate that LA interferes with the production of T3 from T4 when it is co-administered with T4. The elevated level of T3, after T4 administration, is reduced by treatment with LA.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

VERY VERY interesting stuff here! However my next thought is that how can it only reduce the T3 conversion from T4 significantly when dosed together WITH the T4? T4 has a very long half life, around 2 weeks in the body, during this time it is continuously and slowly converting into T3. It doesn't work the same way as T3, which has a very short half life and peaks within 6 hours or so of administration.

 

[criticalbench]

everyone is different and you know people using thyroids medications alpha lipoic acid affects this drugs…

Do you feel a good, 200-300mg of NA-R-ALA is superior to nutrient partitioners like slin sane, recompadrol, etc?

Just curious, recompadrol, slin sane are two great products, but I personally feel I get the same from na-r-ala as a single ingredient, as i do in the blends of those two products stated above. Whats your opinion.

Mike

 

[ScienceGuided]

Do you feel a good, 200-300mg of NA-R-ALA is superior to nutrient partitioners like slin sane, recompadrol, etc?

Just curious, recompadrol, slin sane are two great products, but I personally feel I get the same from na-r-ala as a single ingredient, as i do in the blends of those two products stated above. Whats your opinion.

Mike

I would and do take 200mg of NA-R-ALA over any of them any day of the week.Not a knock on the products,just speaking from experience plus the health benefits are very good.

 

[Outstanding]

Do you feel a good, 200-300mg of NA-R-ALA is superior to nutrient partitioners like slin sane, recompadrol, etc?

Just curious, recompadrol, slin sane are two great products, but I personally feel I get the same from na-r-ala as a single ingredient, as i do in the blends of those two products stated above. Whats your opinion.

Mike

I know you weren't directing this to me... but without having taken na-r-ala as a standalone before I can't give you a 100% straight forward answer, but, I can say that the synergy I have felt while taking Need 2 Slin and Recompadrol has been ridiculously good.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

everyone is different and you know people using thyroids medications alpha lipoic acid affects this drugs…

Is this applicable for all types of ALA, R-ala, AND NA-RALA as well?

 

[MAxximal]

Is this applicable for all types of ALA, R-ala, AND NA-RALA as well?

the study says alpha lipoic acid but IMO all form of them.

 

[Outstanding]

Regarding the thyroid/ala connection and interference of optimal conversion or activity of the hormone in the body, since administered T3 has such a long active period/half life in the body, wouldn't much of it remain exerting it's fat loss effects in spite of the couple times a day ala is ingested?

Also, is this 'really' something a pre-contest or dieting bodybuilder should be concerned about who is taking in 50-100mcg per day of synthetic T3 anyway - it can't truly minimize the effects THAT much I would presume, correct?

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Regarding the thyroid/ala connection and interference of optimal conversion or activity of the hormone in the body, since administered T3 has such a long active period/half life in the body, wouldn't much of it remain exerting it's fat loss effects in spite of the couple times a day ala is ingested?

Also, is this 'really' something a pre-contest or dieting bodybuilder should be concerned about who is taking in 50-100mcg per day of synthetic T3 anyway - it can't truly minimize the effects THAT much I would presume, correct?

great questions oustanding. I'm looking forward to hearing a bit more about this myself.

T3 perhaps, since it peaks roughly 6 hours after you take it. T4 on the other hand, has a 2 week half life....

And obviously like you said, most bodybuilders are going to be taking a much higher dose than someone who is on something like synthroid or armour.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

bump