Substerone Verdict
- Thread starter ezjax
- Start date
ax1
Legend
Or be silly like I am, stack Ebol and Iforce Ecdy together. Why not get the best of both worlds and end the debate, lol
I can see a LG Sub-ecdy and Iforce ecdy stack working as well.
StackedCop
Well-known member
ax1
Legend
I cannot make a conclusive statement...Im just saying Im not convinced which is better either way 95%, 98%, 99%??? Its not easy to answer. Perhaps they are all unique in their own way.
I think they are all worth trying, and especially stacking which Im currently doing.
Full spectrum you also get some benefits of tannins and resins...but pure 99% extract may have more potent specific effects....dont ask Im still learning, lol
All Im saying is that ecdy kicks ass, and there are multiple effective options to choose from, but it will take more time to pick out whats best which imo a variety formula is also worth exploring/developing to see if there are more pronounced effects.
MAxximal
Well-known member
Rhaponticum root (Rhaponticum carthamoides) synonym:Leuzea carthamoides – Bitter, cool, dry Western Classification: Adaptogen, anticoagulant, antioxidant, antitumor, cardiac tonic, hepatoprotective, hypoglycemic, immune stimulant, nervine
Is a Russian herb used as a CNS stimulant and as a restorative agent to the nervous system. Animal studies have shown immunostimulant, antitumor, and cognitive enhancing effects. Human studies have shown it is an effective adaptogen, antidepressant (especially for depression due to alcohol withdrawal), immunopotentiator, hepatoprotective, and hypoglycemic agent21. It has been listed as an official medicine in the Soviet (now Russian) pharmacopoeia since 1961 and is a popular tonic for athletes (it promotes muscle building and enhances lactic and uric acid excretion). It also reduces LDL cholesterol levels, blood viscosity, and blood pressure.
Dose: tincture (1:4) 2-4 ml (40-80 drops) TID
tea: 1-2 tsp. Dried root, 12 oz. water, decoct 15-20 minutes, steep 40 minutes, take 4 oz. TID
taken from the book Adaptogens: Herbs For Strength, Stamina, and Stress Relief
©David Winston, RH (AHG), 2004 Revised 2007
Is a Russian herb used as a CNS stimulant and as a restorative agent to the nervous system. Animal studies have shown immunostimulant, antitumor, and cognitive enhancing effects. Human studies have shown it is an effective adaptogen, antidepressant (especially for depression due to alcohol withdrawal), immunopotentiator, hepatoprotective, and hypoglycemic agent21. It has been listed as an official medicine in the Soviet (now Russian) pharmacopoeia since 1961 and is a popular tonic for athletes (it promotes muscle building and enhances lactic and uric acid excretion). It also reduces LDL cholesterol levels, blood viscosity, and blood pressure.
Dose: tincture (1:4) 2-4 ml (40-80 drops) TID
tea: 1-2 tsp. Dried root, 12 oz. water, decoct 15-20 minutes, steep 40 minutes, take 4 oz. TID
taken from the book Adaptogens: Herbs For Strength, Stamina, and Stress Relief
©David Winston, RH (AHG), 2004 Revised 2007
MAxximal
Well-known member
another question?
What is the effects of Rhaponticum Carthamoides on loss of body fat? If this stuff is capable of maintain a stable glycogen and macroergic phosphates in the skeletal muscles during high workload demand, and improved vascular perfusion of muscles and brain.
For example in a Keto diet? Works like ALA, VS or Vitamin B6?
regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended
Vitamin B-6 is essential in the diet. We cannot synthesize it. PLP plays an important role assisting in the function and operation of approximately 100 enzymes. These enzymes catalyze essential reactions in the body. PLP is a coenzyme for the reactions used in making glucose from amino acids. This process is known as gluconeogenesis,
VS can decrease blood glucose while increasing glycogen storage. Some evidence states that vanadium can stimulate an insulin release
What is the effects of Rhaponticum Carthamoides on loss of body fat? If this stuff is capable of maintain a stable glycogen and macroergic phosphates in the skeletal muscles during high workload demand, and improved vascular perfusion of muscles and brain.
For example in a Keto diet? Works like ALA, VS or Vitamin B6?
regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended
Vitamin B-6 is essential in the diet. We cannot synthesize it. PLP plays an important role assisting in the function and operation of approximately 100 enzymes. These enzymes catalyze essential reactions in the body. PLP is a coenzyme for the reactions used in making glucose from amino acids. This process is known as gluconeogenesis,
VS can decrease blood glucose while increasing glycogen storage. Some evidence states that vanadium can stimulate an insulin release
SuppJunkie
Active member
Bro, I just checked out the price for Ebol, wow, 64 bux but if it works well then I will buy it for sure. First though, I am going to pick up the substerone. I will run the Ecdy then the substerone. If teh results are good, then Ebol in next in line..Damn bro, def a kid in a candy store..LOL
Staked, you run the ebol before? if so how was it..
SJ
StackedCop
Well-known member
SuppJunkie
Active member
PM incoming
ok..SJ
ax1
Legend
ax1
Legend
Easy way to find out...get into ketosis and after a 5-7 days add in ecdy. Use testing strips to gauge results.
Results may vary person to person also...and different extracts, you never know more than your own body and testing. For example, some people have aspartame kick them out of ketosis, and some people not.
ax1
Legend
I dont experience increased hunger from ecdy, I do alot of tricks to prevent hunger but I do not feel any additional hunger.
As you know Im a lifestyle low carb guy also, but I havent been pushing keto in a couple of years.
I feel ecdy helps me maintain muscle mass while cutting, improve workout capacity, my muscles feel a bit more swole (from training harder at least), and most importantly I feel like it counters stim fatigue (especially with Ebols formula which has other goodies) which I havent been cycling off in quite a while.
I believe my skin and hair looks better too!
I dose heavily around my workout period, right now it looks like this
7:30 iforce ecdy with protein shake and coffee
8:30-9 Ebol
11:00 iforce ecdy with my Epharm Amp pre-workout and 20grams bcaa's and eaa's before leaving the house 20 minutes later
1pm Ebol with my protein shake
6-7pm iforce ecdy
11pm Ebol
11:30 bed time
I try to take advantage of ecdy's increased protein synthesis where I need it most around my workout time.
Also, I spread out do to ecdy's half life concerns.
Im going to swap the iforce ecdy with sub-sterone and still run Ebol if everything goes as planned.
SuppJunkie
Active member
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
This should be the correct panel info. They used a panel from another product (directions) on accident. Will be fixed in the next run...
2 Dropper ~ 1.45 ml
Servings Per Container: 84
Ecdysterone Complex:
HydroxyPropylBeta Cyclodextrin 55mg
20-Hydroxy-ecdysterone 30mg
6-Keto-Diosgenin 15mg
Directions: Adults take 2-4 servings per day for best results. Dispense liquid under the tongue and hold for at least 60 seconds then swish around the mouth and swallow completely.
2 Dropper ~ 1.45 ml
Servings Per Container: 84
Ecdysterone Complex:
HydroxyPropylBeta Cyclodextrin 55mg
20-Hydroxy-ecdysterone 30mg
6-Keto-Diosgenin 15mg
Directions: Adults take 2-4 servings per day for best results. Dispense liquid under the tongue and hold for at least 60 seconds then swish around the mouth and swallow completely.
SuppJunkie
Active member
So basiclly, if you do four servings a day you are going to need two bottles, correct?
ax1
Legend
Yes, Im running Testforce, Tbol, Ebol and Ecdymorph. Im about to switch to LG Substerone in 1 week or so if all goes planned.
Been on ebol and Testforce for 27 days straight now and Ecdymorph around 21-22. Added Tbol a few days ago.
Its sloppy...I was even keeping quit for a while because I recognize its hard to make any real evaluations the way Im mixing things up. Im very very happy with my cycle right now so that is more important to me than individual evals.
Im not really weighing myself right now or take bodyfat measurments, Im just using the mirror. Ive made some strength gains and slightly leaning out, goal is recomp and its coming out. Muscles are getting harder more defined in the mirror. Better recovery, just feeling a bit younger (Im 34) Another reason Im not logging and debated weather to go public with my stack or not, no #'s or photos or have time to do so at the moment.
I can verify my training has been phenomenal most workouts as of late, Im having a great time and thats whats most important to me. The stack works.
I may add in Erase next week just to make things even sloppier, lol
Last edited:
SuppJunkie
Active member
O, thank you for the response. I used Ecdy products years ago when they first came out and I really did not see what I wanted, but to be honest, I do not think I gave them a fair shot. I am going to def do that now. Furthermore, do youthink there is any benefit to running an ecdy product while using PH/Ds, ie, Beastdrol, etc..Thanks gaian..SJ
ax1
Legend
Quality is everything when it comes to ecdy, thats why ecdy has been debunked over and over again in the past because companies release crap.
Ecdy is beneficial on and off cycle, including pct. Question is how much of a price tag are you willing to put into your cycle?
If I had to choose, imo Id run Ecdy at least in PCT to help maintain gains.
ax1
Legend
Low doses of ecdysteroids promote muscle building
Invalid Link Removed
"The fat on the shinbone is called paratibial fat. This is a marker for subcutaneous fat, which is the fat that lies under the skin. The higher doses of ecdysteroids inhibited the growth of the paratibial fat. And all doses inhibited the growth of visceral fat [intra-abdominal fat]. This is the fat that surrounds the organs in the abdominal cavity, which increases the risk of cardiovascular disease."
Ecdysterone gives rat mega-muscles
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
"The fat on the shinbone is called paratibial fat. This is a marker for subcutaneous fat, which is the fat that lies under the skin. The higher doses of ecdysteroids inhibited the growth of the paratibial fat. And all doses inhibited the growth of visceral fat [intra-abdominal fat]. This is the fat that surrounds the organs in the abdominal cavity, which increases the risk of cardiovascular disease."
Ecdysterone gives rat mega-muscles
Invalid Link Removed
SuppJunkie
Active member
SuppJunkie
Active member
Well dudes, I just bought 2 bottles of LG Substerone and one bottle of APS T100 from Nutra..
All ready to rock the natty stack..SJ
Now off to N2BM to get my Adderlin and Thiomucase..
All ready to rock the natty stack..SJ
Now off to N2BM to get my Adderlin and Thiomucase..
Blergs
Well-known member
SuppJunkie
Active member
Anyone else get their hands on this deal yet!!!
spezzy
Member
I was keen on trying the product, but after seeing the first page of responses I don't even want to bother reading the other two.
It's basic math that two bottles are necessary for a proper cycle, yet a rep tries to make it seem that that is not the case.
I don't know, maybe I'm a little different in my morals, but I think that it is plain rude for a rep to be responding with 'umm actually...'
Is it too much for someone to respond with some respect on here? I appreciate that Blergs realized his mistake.. But one cannot overlook the obvious fact that he answered quite rudely with the 'umm actually..' crap.
LG reps, I'm going to be honest; you guys do not represent LG in a positive manner. I understand that this is a forum and that it doesn't have to be formal, but if I were representing a company of any type I would want to have a positive image.
On other notes it seems to me that LG is at fault for letting such individuals represent their company.
Blergs, if you are being rushed why not take time later to right up a proper response? I also find it odd that you do not take the time to do so, nor know about the product dosing. It made you look stupid, no offense.
I don't mean to put any of the aforementioned individuals on blast, but more of LG for not regulating their 'team'. There are other companies with much more suitable representatives of their company on AM that are actually helpful without coming off as rude or biased.
I don't have a grip against LG, I've used Formadrol and T-911 in the past. Not the greatest products in the world, but not the worst either. I'll be trying iForce's product first.
It's basic math that two bottles are necessary for a proper cycle, yet a rep tries to make it seem that that is not the case.
I don't know, maybe I'm a little different in my morals, but I think that it is plain rude for a rep to be responding with 'umm actually...'
Is it too much for someone to respond with some respect on here? I appreciate that Blergs realized his mistake.. But one cannot overlook the obvious fact that he answered quite rudely with the 'umm actually..' crap.
LG reps, I'm going to be honest; you guys do not represent LG in a positive manner. I understand that this is a forum and that it doesn't have to be formal, but if I were representing a company of any type I would want to have a positive image.
On other notes it seems to me that LG is at fault for letting such individuals represent their company.
Blergs, if you are being rushed why not take time later to right up a proper response? I also find it odd that you do not take the time to do so, nor know about the product dosing. It made you look stupid, no offense.
I don't mean to put any of the aforementioned individuals on blast, but more of LG for not regulating their 'team'. There are other companies with much more suitable representatives of their company on AM that are actually helpful without coming off as rude or biased.
I don't have a grip against LG, I've used Formadrol and T-911 in the past. Not the greatest products in the world, but not the worst either. I'll be trying iForce's product first.
ax1
Legend
If you kept reading you would find out that they made a mistake on the nutraplanet website so the reps were confused (post #70.) 1 bottle = 1 month. I dont believe any of them even have their hands on the bottles yet. Give them a break, they are just reps, maybe one of them had a bad day if they came across rude to you, just let it go.
ax1
Legend
heavylifter33
Well-known member
With any hormone type product there will always be a low end dosage and an upper end dosage. We have found that our product is effective in a 36 day run, or you can add 1 more for a 28 day run to see more efficacy. We have simply stated that if you want to really hit it hard, run 1 bottle for 18 days and you will really see some change.
As far as my behavior, i can't comment on anyone else, i would invite you to step in to the life of an LG rep for 1 day. Think about the fact that our lead formulator, the guy who knows all our products inside and out, the man who leads all the reps, this man just recently left the company. Now think about how many of the LG reps left with him, the most veteran and experienced reps are now gone as well. Think of the turnover and chaos in the company at the moment. Think once again about how many call-out threads, bashing and insults LG reps receive on a daily basis.
To be perfectly honest, the e-mail from the planet was sent before a SINGLE lg rep had ANY information on this product. The labels were printed wrong, we had no clue. Yet we will take the blame for our company. We are slandered and abused as if we personally make these products. Now don't take this as a "poor poor me" speech, it's not. If i didn't believe in this company i wouldn't be with them. I take what's given to me, and i respond in turn. And when a rep is attacked for no reason, i will step in to defend him like a brother. Respect is given both ways.
SuppJunkie
Active member
The way I see it, who cares, everyone makes mistakes. The bottom line is this looks to be a kicken Ecdy product. Sh*t I just bought two bottles from Nutra today thinking they were going to be 18 days a piece. Now I find out its 3 servings a day and the bottle will last a month. Thats good news to me, although, I will prob run 4 servings a day anyway. LG is a good company, let it go..No need for bashing people..
SJ
SJ
ax1
Legend
Its cool, perhaps you had a bad day too, lol
StackedCop
Well-known member
cdsfx
Member
Eric designed the product it will deliver. The logs from the last run are proof of that I bought 2 bottles and will be very surprised if I dont smash some pr's. Plus fellas it summer dont know about you guys but being able to still mmake quality gains with no bacne from phs sounds pretty good to me
ax1
Legend
I hung out with my wife with her friends several days ago....they told me my skin looks very good, lol I did not tell them why.
Ecdy is for real!
SuppJunkie
Active member
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
Weird thread. Glad it was saved by a few good members.
ezjax
Member
If I miss out I miss out, but i will not be buying an ecdy product until there are more logs with before and after pics or some research that i have access to.
Thank you all for your help.
Quote: The truth always comes to fruition. It may take some time, but the truth will be revealed.
Thank you all for your help.
Quote: The truth always comes to fruition. It may take some time, but the truth will be revealed.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Reps can email [email protected] for studies and technical questions. Cassie is great at research. Here are some studies to look at...
Steroids. 2010 Oct;75(10):632-7. Epub 2010 Apr 2.
Ecdysteroids elicit a rapid Ca2+ flux leading to Akt activation and increased protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.
Gorelick-Feldman J, Cohick W, Raskin I.
Source
Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901, USA.
Abstract
Phytoecdysteroids, structurally similar to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis. In this study we show that in a mouse skeletal muscle cell line, C(2)C(12), 20-hydroxyecdysone (20HE), a common phytoecdysteroid in both insects and plants, elicited a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis. The effect was inhibited by a G-protein coupled receptor (GPCR) inhibitor, a phospholipase C (PLC) inhibitor, and a phosphoinositide kinase-3 (PI3K) inhibitor.
J Agric Food Chem. 2008 May 28;56(10):3532-7. Epub 2008 Apr 30.
Phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.
Gorelick-Feldman J, Maclean D, Ilic N, Poulev A, Lila MA, Cheng D, Raskin I.
Source
Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally similar or identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. To study the mechanism of action of phytoecdysteroids in mammalian tissue, an in vitro cellular assay of protein synthesis was developed. In C2C12 murine myotubes and human primary myotubes, phytoecdysteroids increased protein synthesis by up to 20%. In vivo, ecdysteroids increased rat grip strength. Ecdysteroid-containing plant extracts produced similar results. The effect was inhibited by a phosphoinositide kinase-3 inhibitor, which suggests a PI3K-mediated mechanism.
Phytomedicine. 2008 Sep;15(9):691-8. Epub 2008 Jun 26.
20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat.
Tóth N, Szabó A, Kacsala P, Héger J, Zádor E.
Source
Department of Pharmacognosy, Szeged, Hungary.
Abstract
20-Hydroxyecdysone (20E) is an ecdysteroid hormone that regulates moulting in insects. Interestingly, 20E is also found most abundantly in plant species and has anabolic effects in vertebrates, i.e. increasing muscle size without androgen influence. The effect of 20E on slow and fast fiber types of skeletal muscle has not been reported yet. Here we present that 20E affects the size (cross-sectional area, CSA) of the different fiber types in a muscle-specific manner. The effect on fiber size was modified by the distance from the site of the treatment and the presence of a regenerating soleus muscle in the animal. Besides the fiber size, 20E also increased the myonuclear number in the fibers of normal and regenerating muscles, suggesting the activation of satellite cells. According to our results 20E may provide an alternative for substitution of anabolic-androgenic steroids in therapeutic treatments against muscle atrophy.
Ukr Biokhim Zh. 1997 May-Jun;69(3):3-9.
[Effect of vitamin D3 and 20-hydroxyecdysone on the content of ATP, creatine phosphate, carnosine and Ca2+ in skeletal muscles].
[Article in Russian]
Kholodova IuD, Tugaĭ VA, Zimina VP.
Source
A.V. Palladin Institute of Biochemistry, National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Kyiv.
Abstract
The effect of vitamin D3, 20-hydroxyecdysone and extract from Serratula coronata containing 20-hydroxyecdysone on the level of basic metabolites in the skeletal muscles of rats has been studied. It was shown that development of D-hypovitaminosis is accompanied by the decrease in content of ATP, creatine phosphate, carnosine, and by the increase of Ca2+ content. Against the background of D-hypovitaminosis the 20-hydroxyecdysone and the extract from Serratula coronata which contains 20-hydroxyecdysone promote the increase of the amount of these metabolites up to the control of one and normalize Ca2+ content in them.
Farmakol Toksikol. 1988 Nov-Dec;51(6):57-60.
[The action of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone on the physical endurance of animals and on protein metabolism in the skeletal muscles].
[Article in Russian]
Chermnykh NS, Shimanovskiĭ NL, Shutko GV, Syrov VN.
Abstract
The results of the comparative study on the myotropic activity of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone and their effects on physical endurance of animals suggested that ecdysterone possessing a wider spectrum of the anabolic action on the contractile proteins of the skeletal muscles exerts a more pronounced influence on physical endurance of animals without their preliminary training.
Nauchnye Doki Vyss Shkoly Biol Nauki. 1984;(11):16-20.
[Mechanism of the anabolic action of phytoecdisteroids in mammals].
[Article in Russian]
Syrov VN.
Abstract
In experiments with white mice it has been established that phytoecdisteroides turkesteron, ecdisteron and 2-desoxy-alpha-ecdison in the dose of 5 mg on 1 kg of body mass stimulate the protein synthesis. Using the model of protein synthesis from mice liver it has been shown that the action of phytoecdisteroides is connected with the rise of poliribosome functional activity and rate increase of protein macromolecules formation. Preliminary administration of actinomycin D does not prevent the effect of protein synthesis stimulation. It has been concluded that the anabolic effect of phytoecdisteroides in mammals organism is connected not with induction of RNA synthesis but with the acceleration of translocation processes.
Steroids. 2010 Oct;75(10):632-7. Epub 2010 Apr 2.
Ecdysteroids elicit a rapid Ca2+ flux leading to Akt activation and increased protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.
Gorelick-Feldman J, Cohick W, Raskin I.
Source
Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901, USA.
Abstract
Phytoecdysteroids, structurally similar to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis. In this study we show that in a mouse skeletal muscle cell line, C(2)C(12), 20-hydroxyecdysone (20HE), a common phytoecdysteroid in both insects and plants, elicited a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis. The effect was inhibited by a G-protein coupled receptor (GPCR) inhibitor, a phospholipase C (PLC) inhibitor, and a phosphoinositide kinase-3 (PI3K) inhibitor.
J Agric Food Chem. 2008 May 28;56(10):3532-7. Epub 2008 Apr 30.
Phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.
Gorelick-Feldman J, Maclean D, Ilic N, Poulev A, Lila MA, Cheng D, Raskin I.
Source
Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally similar or identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. To study the mechanism of action of phytoecdysteroids in mammalian tissue, an in vitro cellular assay of protein synthesis was developed. In C2C12 murine myotubes and human primary myotubes, phytoecdysteroids increased protein synthesis by up to 20%. In vivo, ecdysteroids increased rat grip strength. Ecdysteroid-containing plant extracts produced similar results. The effect was inhibited by a phosphoinositide kinase-3 inhibitor, which suggests a PI3K-mediated mechanism.
Phytomedicine. 2008 Sep;15(9):691-8. Epub 2008 Jun 26.
20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat.
Tóth N, Szabó A, Kacsala P, Héger J, Zádor E.
Source
Department of Pharmacognosy, Szeged, Hungary.
Abstract
20-Hydroxyecdysone (20E) is an ecdysteroid hormone that regulates moulting in insects. Interestingly, 20E is also found most abundantly in plant species and has anabolic effects in vertebrates, i.e. increasing muscle size without androgen influence. The effect of 20E on slow and fast fiber types of skeletal muscle has not been reported yet. Here we present that 20E affects the size (cross-sectional area, CSA) of the different fiber types in a muscle-specific manner. The effect on fiber size was modified by the distance from the site of the treatment and the presence of a regenerating soleus muscle in the animal. Besides the fiber size, 20E also increased the myonuclear number in the fibers of normal and regenerating muscles, suggesting the activation of satellite cells. According to our results 20E may provide an alternative for substitution of anabolic-androgenic steroids in therapeutic treatments against muscle atrophy.
Ukr Biokhim Zh. 1997 May-Jun;69(3):3-9.
[Effect of vitamin D3 and 20-hydroxyecdysone on the content of ATP, creatine phosphate, carnosine and Ca2+ in skeletal muscles].
[Article in Russian]
Kholodova IuD, Tugaĭ VA, Zimina VP.
Source
A.V. Palladin Institute of Biochemistry, National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Kyiv.
Abstract
The effect of vitamin D3, 20-hydroxyecdysone and extract from Serratula coronata containing 20-hydroxyecdysone on the level of basic metabolites in the skeletal muscles of rats has been studied. It was shown that development of D-hypovitaminosis is accompanied by the decrease in content of ATP, creatine phosphate, carnosine, and by the increase of Ca2+ content. Against the background of D-hypovitaminosis the 20-hydroxyecdysone and the extract from Serratula coronata which contains 20-hydroxyecdysone promote the increase of the amount of these metabolites up to the control of one and normalize Ca2+ content in them.
Farmakol Toksikol. 1988 Nov-Dec;51(6):57-60.
[The action of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone on the physical endurance of animals and on protein metabolism in the skeletal muscles].
[Article in Russian]
Chermnykh NS, Shimanovskiĭ NL, Shutko GV, Syrov VN.
Abstract
The results of the comparative study on the myotropic activity of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone and their effects on physical endurance of animals suggested that ecdysterone possessing a wider spectrum of the anabolic action on the contractile proteins of the skeletal muscles exerts a more pronounced influence on physical endurance of animals without their preliminary training.
Nauchnye Doki Vyss Shkoly Biol Nauki. 1984;(11):16-20.
[Mechanism of the anabolic action of phytoecdisteroids in mammals].
[Article in Russian]
Syrov VN.
Abstract
In experiments with white mice it has been established that phytoecdisteroides turkesteron, ecdisteron and 2-desoxy-alpha-ecdison in the dose of 5 mg on 1 kg of body mass stimulate the protein synthesis. Using the model of protein synthesis from mice liver it has been shown that the action of phytoecdisteroides is connected with the rise of poliribosome functional activity and rate increase of protein macromolecules formation. Preliminary administration of actinomycin D does not prevent the effect of protein synthesis stimulation. It has been concluded that the anabolic effect of phytoecdisteroides in mammals organism is connected not with induction of RNA synthesis but with the acceleration of translocation processes.
ezjax
Member
If im reading this correctly at my weight of 180 i would need 409 mg per dose correct?
(180lbs/2.2) * 5mg= 409mg
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
It's tough, a lot of products never get a showcase of logs.
The people who speak out the most are the angry/unsatisfied guys :rasp:
ax1
Legend
I dont think they were using Substerone in that study. The formula at the end was for turkesterone, ecidisterone, and 2-desoxy-alpha-ecdison. Who knows what quality they were using, quality is everything. Also Substerone is 20-Hydroxyecdysone and designed for sub-lingual absorption.
No, I do not believe you ned 409mg.
LG Sciences
Board Sponsor
Dose calculation for mice and rats are different than a human:
Here's how it works:
Take the mg/kg in mice or rats and multiply by 80 (average kilos for a male)
So, if the dose in a mouse was 5mg/kg you would multiply by 80 = 400mg
However mouse and rat metabolism is different from humans. For a mouse you take that total and divide by 12.3 and a rat is 6.2.
Mouse to Human For 5mg/kg: 400mg / 12.3 So the Human Equivilent Dose for a human is roughly 32.5mg to get roughly the same effect.
Make sense? Here's the issue though, I bet they injected most of these animals which leads to MUCH greater bioavailability than oral, so hence the sublingual is the way to go. Studies have shown that about the max you can handle at any one time is 20-30mg under the tongue and maybe another 10-15mg in the cheek. So, that's why we have you hold it under your tongue and swish it around your cheeks. This would get much closer to the doses that were shown in the animal studies.
Here's how it works:
Take the mg/kg in mice or rats and multiply by 80 (average kilos for a male)
So, if the dose in a mouse was 5mg/kg you would multiply by 80 = 400mg
However mouse and rat metabolism is different from humans. For a mouse you take that total and divide by 12.3 and a rat is 6.2.
Mouse to Human For 5mg/kg: 400mg / 12.3 So the Human Equivilent Dose for a human is roughly 32.5mg to get roughly the same effect.
Make sense? Here's the issue though, I bet they injected most of these animals which leads to MUCH greater bioavailability than oral, so hence the sublingual is the way to go. Studies have shown that about the max you can handle at any one time is 20-30mg under the tongue and maybe another 10-15mg in the cheek. So, that's why we have you hold it under your tongue and swish it around your cheeks. This would get much closer to the doses that were shown in the animal studies.
cdsfx
Member
This is great info thx for sharing