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megadosing L-carnitine

zombiemuscle said:
Has anyone tried ArginoCarn? Arginine and carnitine are my favorite aminos.
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What about the cadre of scientific repudiations and inimical findings published demonstrating the replete lack of any efficaciousness regarding this semi essential alpha amino; moreover there has actually been a categorical and terminal body of published science that has evidenced arginine as decreasing time to muscular failure? It not only severely lacks any semblance of scientific validity concerning it's once purported and pimped NO2 modulating and amplifying capabilities, but it actually DEcreases performance.

I'd like to hear your introspection on these assertions.
 
Outstanding said:
What about the cadre of scientific repudiations and inimical findings published demonstrating the replete lack of any efficaciousness regarding this semi essential alpha amino; moreover there has actually been a categorical and terminal body of published science that has evidenced arginine as decreasing time to muscular failure? It not only severely lacks any semblance of scientific validity concerning it's once purported and pimped NO2 modulating and amplifying capabilities, but it actually DEcreases performance.

I'd like to hear your introspection on these assertions.
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My introspection is based upon actual use of these free form amino acids. I've hit the gym with zero supplements and have also lifted with pure arginine. I found my pumps were easier eachieved with arginine than without. Muscle hardness was better and longer lasting. Furthermore, did you know arginine can increase growth hormone at higher doses?

As for the l-carnitine... There exists a multitude of studies proving its effectiveness at mobilizing fats into the mitochondria for energy production. L-carnitine also is used to increased androgen receptor density. I can 'feel' the l-carnitine when I take it. It makes me feel great, gives me energy, improves mental clarity.
 
zombiemuscle said:
My introspection is based upon actual use of these free form amino acids. I've hit the gym with zero supplements and have also lifted with pure arginine. I found my pumps were easier eachieved with arginine than without. Muscle hardness was better and longer lasting. Furthermore, did you know arginine can increase growth hormone at higher doses?

As for the l-carnitine... There exists a multitude of studies proving its effectiveness at mobilizing fats into the mitochondria for energy production. L-carnitine also is used to increased androgen receptor density. I can 'feel' the l-carnitine when I take it. It makes me feel great, gives me energy, improves mental clarity.
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I'm on board with you regarding L-Carnitine (LCLT and GPLC). On the Arginine front, I am not in any way trying to draw you into a debate, but I can't help but reference and expound upon the fact L-Arginine has been repetitively shown to lack any/all meaningful NO2 or overall performance modulating effect whatsoever; even in the original study performed years ago (that has been so embattled and twisted to neatly fit within the context manufacturers need to justify their outrageous claims of efficacy) which gave birth to the endless sea of NO2 product progeny, the Arginine was infused intravenously and STILL had a meager measure of enhancement of any kind.
 
Outstanding said:
I'm on board with you regarding L-Carnitine (LCLT and GPLC). On the Arginine front, I am not in any way trying to draw you into a debate, but I can't help but reference and expound upon the fact L-Arginine has been repetitively shown to lack any/all meaningful NO2 or overall performance modulating effect whatsoever; even in the original study performed years ago (that has been so embattled and twisted to neatly fit within the context manufacturers need to justify their outrageous claims of efficacy) which gave birth to the endless sea of NO2 product progeny, the Arginine was infused intravenously and STILL had a meager measure of enhancement of any kind.
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Nonetheless, arginine has benefits beyond it's claimed NO2 abilities.
 
zombiemuscle said:
Nonetheless, arginine has benefits beyond it's claimed NO2 abilities.
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just like trib-companies were pushing new products and posted dozens of studies that showed trib did not increase test and was therefore 'worthless'. now companies are pushing new products that don't contain arginine and everyone is bashing arginine as worthless.


you can post studies till you are blue in the face, i will still continue to use trib and arginine.
 
thebigt said:
just like trib-companies were pushing new products and posted dozens of studies that showed trib did not increase test and was therefore 'worthless'. now companies are pushing new products that don't contain arginine and everyone is bashing arginine as worthless.


you can post studies till you are blue in the face, i will still continue to use trib and arginine.
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I understand that, and that is your prerogative. I am just not of the financial persuasion to continually invest my resources into an amino acid that has been invariably and unremittingly shown beyond any shadow of a doubt in vivo to exhibit absolutely no ergogenic benefit. I made a conscious choice of cessation over the past three years of all supplements (nutraceutical and pharmaceutical alike) in order to self evolve and experiment with a fevered and aggressive all natural offensive to hone and perfect my natural physique prowess and aptitude; during that time my research never slowed or dwindled, and it caused a shift in dynamic in my overall methods of operation. I have had the rare and rewarding balanced mixture of anecdotal and literature based experiences that have congealed into my philosophies/practices I am involved with today in my athletic ambitions - and no room exists for investment and ingestion of anything unfounded and ignoble.
 
Outstanding said:
I understand that, and that is your prerogative. I am just not of the financial persuasion to continually invest my resources into an amino acid that has been invariably and unremittingly shown beyond any shadow of a doubt in vivo to exhibit absolutely no ergogenic benefit. I made a conscious choice of cessation over the past three years of all supplements (nutraceutical and pharmaceutical alike) in order to self evolve and experiment with a fevered and aggressive all natural offensive to hone and perfect my natural physique prowess and aptitude; during that time my research never slowed or dwindled, and it caused a shift in dynamic in my overall methods of operation. I have had the rare and rewarding balanced mixture of anecdotal and literature based experiences that have congealed into my philosophies/practices I am involved with today in my athletic ambitions - and no room exists for investment and ingestion of anything unfounded and ignoble.
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don't put too much stock in studies-the info sheet that comes with my test cyp says 'use of anabolics will not enhance athletic performance' i guess conseco and mcguire didn't read that study, lol. if you look at a pdr you will find many drugs that they don't know the method of how it works-just that it works. imo that is the case with trib and arginine-just because some studies find arginine shows no increase in nitric oxide does not mean that it doesn't work by other means. and if you think trib is worthless talk to chuck diesel.
 
thebigt said:
x2!!! i have been thinking of alcar/lclt/gplc all at 3 grams 2xday.
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Hey Tom did you end up trying that Carnitine stack?


I'm thinking of maybe giving this stack a try, almost 10g.


Wake up- LCLT 1g

Pre-workout- GPLC 4.5 g, ArginoCarn 1g

Post-Workout- ArginoCarn (Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate Dihydrochloride) 2 g

Post-Workout meal- LCLT 1g


Has anyone tried stacking GPLC, LCLT and ArginoCarn? If so how did you dose it?
 
JudgementDay said:
Hey Tom did you end up trying that Carnitine stack?


I'm thinking of maybe giving this stack a try, almost 10g.


Wake up- LCLT 1g

Pre-workout- GPLC 4.5 g, ArginoCarn 1g

Post-Workout- ArginoCarn (Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate Dihydrochloride) 2 g

Post-Workout meal- LCLT 1g


Has anyone tried stacking GPLC, LCLT and ArginoCarn? If so how did you dose it?
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BUMP! There has to be someone that has tried stacking all 3 ?
 
So if you could only afford one which would it be for long term and more efficient for fat loss. 1.Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate Dihydrochloride
2. Alcar
3. Plcar
4. Gplc
 
nobel252 said:
So if you could only afford one which would it be for long term and more efficient for fat loss. 1.Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate Dihydrochloride
2. Alcar
3. Plcar
4. Gplc
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ALCAR FTW!!!!!!


PLCAR and GPLC (GlycoCarn) is the same.

GlycoCarn is a trademark brand of Sigma-tau HealthScience, Inc.



strategicmove said:
Essentially, all carnitine forms enhance the mitochondrial use of fatty acids. The advanced forms of L-Carnitine, namely, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Propionyl-L-Carnitine, and Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate, are significantly more potent than simple L-Carnitine in terms of fat-loss and anti-aging benefits.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine produces superior mitochondrial modulation of fatty acids. Dosage recommendation is between 1 000mg and 2 000mg per day.

Propionyl-L-carnitine is a form of carnitine that has a special affinity for heart muscles, producing potent effects in cardiac and skeletal muscle, producing significant improvements in energy and stamina. Dosage recommendation is around 1 000mg daily.

Combining the two should produce excellent results. If your budget does not permit this, you might prefer a combination of base L-Carnitine and ALCAR (PLCAR has its key benefit in the cardiovascular realm).

As you know, ALA co-supplementation is a must, as Alpha Lipoic acid turns out to be a natural co-factor for a mitochondrial enzyme crucial in the break down of fatty acids. This enhances cellular energy efficiency. Furthermore, lipoic acid is a powerful antioxidant that enhances intracellular levels of vitamin C and glutathione, powerful antioxidants on their own.
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Outstanding said:
Nitrates are the new Ethyl Esters! Don't worry, if it's an ingredient, it will be created soon enough ;) It looks better on the label, and if you make it, they will come.
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The current nitrate patent (and product that everyone uses) is only covering amino acids at this point. It may be an issue with bonding something like carnitine to a nitrate. But I would be surprised if someone just used a 1:1 blend or something like that. The point of the "new" nitrate products is increased solubility when bonded with amino acids.
 
MAxximal said:
Glycine is a inhibitory amino acid.
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Can you explain this a little more please, and how it alters the relationship between GPLC and PLCAR?

Royd The Noyd said:
The current nitrate patent (and product that everyone uses) is only covering amino acids at this point. It may be an issue with bonding something like carnitine to a nitrate. But I would be surprised if someone just used a 1:1 blend or something like that. The point of the "new" nitrate products is increased solubility when bonded with amino acids.
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Well, I just purchase Creatine Nitrate, since it's now available in bulk powder form. I do like the amino acid Nitrates as well, and made another order to replenish my VPX Power Shock.
 
Outstanding said:
Can you explain this a little more please, and how it alters the relationship between GPLC and PLCAR?



Well, I just purchase Creatine Nitrate, since it's now available in bulk powder form. I do like the amino acid Nitrates as well, and made another order to replenish my VPX Power Shock.
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Propionyl-L-Carnitine (PLC) has been shown to best support healthy heart and skeletal muscle function. A patented and safe USP dietary form of PLC has been developed which is molecularly bonded to glycine, one of the precursor amino acids to carnitine biosynthesis.

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I take LCLT at 3 grams a day. That and 2 grams of ResV.

I have to take them separately or the bowels will move, lol
 
I just heard from a friend that he stumbled across some research highlighting the fact Carnitine (not sure what form) can have some negative interaction with the Thyroid Gland function at higher dosages? Sorry my information is limited, but this has some pretty upsetting implications, although I'm not sure what constitutes 'mega' dosing, and as I said I'm not sure if this was LCLT, PLCAR, L-Carnitine base, etc.

Oh well, just take Cytomel with it ;)
 
Outstanding said:
I just heard from a friend that he stumbled across some research highlighting the fact Carnitine (not sure what form) can have some negative interaction with the Thyroid Gland function at higher dosages? Sorry my information is limited, but this has some pretty upsetting implications, although I'm not sure what constitutes 'mega' dosing, and as I said I'm not sure if this was LCLT, PLCAR, L-Carnitine base, etc.

Oh well, just take Cytomel with it ;)
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maybe this can help us ;)

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AntonG42O said:
some guy on here said that after megadosing L-carninite his sweat smelled like a dead fish. just throwing it out there
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I've been experimenting with dosing ALCAR and just yesterday I had this happen for what I think was the first time. My girlfriend said I stunk up the whole house. Dosing was 2g right after ~200mg of Na-RALA twice a day. Note: I recommend not mixing them together or the Na-RALA will stick to the cup, it's really nasty stuff consistency-wise, I may buy the pills next time for this bc the powder is really fine and hard to work with.

Since then, I've decided to drop back down to 1g twice a day with the same amount of NA_RALA. One disclaimer: it was hard for me to tell if I had this, I couldn't smell it on myself so I had no clue until I came home from work and immediately my gf was appalled by my odor.
 
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