Favorite Bible Quotes

Quotes like this always remind me the TOTAL BAD ASS Jesus is! SO PEACEFUL yet SO POWERFUL!

We as Christians KNOW how powerful satan is. Yet, after 40 days of fasting, Jesus laughed at him and put him in his place when offered everything on this Earth.

Ummmm.....not to mention all the other stuff Jesus did....like ASCENDING INTO HEAVEN BODY AND ALL AFTER DEATH! Think about it!

Praise be to Jesus! The only true and sovereign ruler and King. Does it NOT make you giddy inside to realize HIS almighty power is on our side?

You can't forget how humble Jesus was. I'm sure he appreciates our praise but he had one mission when he came to earth and that was to do this fathers will and praise him, not himself.

John 5: 30"I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me. "

We don't know how easy that temptation was for Jesus to shrug off either. Being that Jesus was in the flesh and not along side God in heaven it HAD to be different.

Another thing not to forget is Jesus prayed to his father for strength. Don't get that confused with meditation. He was not talking to himself.

Luke 6:12"In the progress of these days he went out into the mountain to pray, and he continued the whole night in prayer to God"
 
Yes sir ;)
 
3Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.

7This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.

8I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof
 
3Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.

7This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.

8I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof

Song of Solomon huh? I read somewhere that the priests used to forbid men from reading it until they reached age 30 or were married due to it's sensual nature.
 
Song of Solomon huh? I read somewhere that the priests used to forbid men from reading it until they reached age 30 or were married due to it's sensual nature.

I have heard similar things, I guess that could be rather titillating to an very "under-sexualized" people
 
Ezekiel 23:19-20

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
 
We men are weak when it comes to women, well most of us anyways.

And there's men that are weak when it comes to other men. If everyone put the will of God first like Jesus did what is our will is put behind us and anything is possible.

Matthew 19:26 "Looking them in the face, Jesus said to them: “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
 
So you can drink but you can't get drunk. Can you drink until you get a mild Buzz??:lmao:

true, but in all seriousness, it is not the drinking that is a sin, it is the loss of sobriety, so a buzz is a no no. I know I take the fun out of everything.

Also, during ancient times, alcohol was used medicinally, modern pain meds, anestesia (sorry for butchering the spelling) were not available.

So yes, Biblically drinking is ok, but no where does the Bible condone drunkenness, it condemns drunkenness in many places.
 
true, but in all seriousness, it is not the drinking that is a sin, it is the loss of sobriety, so a buzz is a no no. I know I take the fun out of everything.

Also, during ancient times, alcohol was used medicinally, modern pain meds, anestesia (sorry for butchering the spelling) were not available.

So yes, Biblically drinking is ok, but no where does the Bible condone drunkenness, it condemns drunkenness in many places.

Also, alcohol, more specifically wine, was primarily consumed due to the unclean conditions of drinking water (I figured I'd address that before the Biblical mockers in this thread added their two cents...).
 
true, but in all seriousness, it is not the drinking that is a sin, it is the loss of sobriety, so a buzz is a no no. I know I take the fun out of everything.

Serious question. Lets say you're at a wedding and you have 3-4 drinks socially, if you get to the point where you're feeling the effects, you're committing a sin??
 
proverbs 23 : 20"Do not come to be among heavy drinkers of wine, among those who are gluttonous eaters of flesh. 21For a drunkard and a glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe one with mere rags.

My uncle fullfilled these words when the bank took his house. He's been drinking everyday of his life since he was about 20 years old. He's around 65 now. He had a great job, 9 acres completely paid off with a nice house. I can go on and on about the effects on the family but He has no money to his name. Surviving under the undeserved kindness of his daughter.
 
Serious question. Lets say you're at a wedding and you have 3-4 drinks socially, if you get to the point where you're feeling the effects, you're committing a sin??

I think the rule of thumb is if you have to question if you've had too much you probably have. Also how are you acting? Are you making a fool of yourself and others? How are your motor skills? Simple common sense questions to ask yourself. Since the effect of alcohol is different for everyone 3-4 drinks may be nothing for some or may be alot for others. It's the excessive amount that becomes a problem for each individual. When a person is stumbling around, yelling, slurring speach, it's obvious he has had excess. There's a reason the law has a alcoholic limit. A friend of mine used to always carry a breathalizer around before we picked who to drive.

I don't know, I think it's pretty simple. I don't drink anymore but when I used to I knew I had too much when I started cursing a lot, getting loud, saying things I normally wouldn't, "feeling no pain" .
 
That's what i'm saying stumbling around and being violent is drunk, being buzzed is a few drinks socially and enjoying yourself with others, but being buzzed is definately not being SOBER so does that make it a sin??
 
honestly guys, in regards to drinking, the best bet is to not do it. Yes, losing your sobriety is a sin, its not my rule, is not an interpretation of some obscure passage to condemn people and be a killjoy, it is fact. How many can drink and not lose their sobriety, to have a beer, or a glass of wine with dinner, some can, some cant, and the best is to remove temptation. Lying is also a sin, as is lusting, killing, etc, and all punishable by eternal damnation. What I am trying to say is dont get offended by the drunkenness thing, its a sin, just like any other sin, accept it, deal with it in a Godly way, if you have a problem with it ask God for help, if you have a problem accepting it is a sin, ask God to convict you.

After I got saved, I still drank, and smoked pot and I enjoyed both. I struggled to accept that it was a sin, if it wasnt causing me to sin in other ways, like driving, fighting, etc. I prayed first to feel convicted about it, and then prayed for strength to overcome it. Dont let foolishness like this come between you and God. It took me a while, I went to church hung over sometimes, obviously was an even bigger hypocrite than I am now, but praise God He did finally get me to feel convicted (to see things His way, not mine), and then to stop doing those things. Honestly I am better off and I wont go back.

I just want this to be a positive for people and not a negative, "Oh there is nothign wrong with getting drunk, I am going to do what I want and if that is how God is I dont need him" type of response.
 
honestly guys, in regards to drinking, the best bet is to not do it. Yes, losing your sobriety is a sin, its not my rule, is not an interpretation of some obscure passage to condemn people and be a killjoy, it is fact. How many can drink and not lose their sobriety, to have a beer, or a glass of wine with dinner, some can, some cant, and the best is to remove temptation. Lying is also a sin, as is lusting, killing, etc, and all punishable by eternal damnation. What I am trying to say is dont get offended by the drunkenness thing, its a sin, just like any other sin, accept it, deal with it in a Godly way, if you have a problem with it ask God for help, if you have a problem accepting it is a sin, ask God to convict you.

After I got saved, I still drank, and smoked pot and I enjoyed both. I struggled to accept that it was a sin, if it wasnt causing me to sin in other ways, like driving, fighting, etc. I prayed first to feel convicted about it, and then prayed for strength to overcome it. Dont let foolishness like this come between you and God. It took me a while, I went to church hung over sometimes, obviously was an even bigger hypocrite than I am now, but praise God He did finally get me to feel convicted (to see things His way, not mine), and then to stop doing those things. Honestly I am better off and I wont go back.

I just want this to be a positive for people and not a negative, "Oh there is nothign wrong with getting drunk, I am going to do what I want and if that is how God is I dont need him" type of response.

I'm not trying to argue with you as i'm sure you know the Bible better than I , but isn't there a story of how they ran out of wine at a wedding and Jesus turned the water into wine so that everyone could drink and celebrate.Or did they each just drink a sip of wine so they could all stay sober???
 
The difference is fermentation.

WINE IN THE BIBLE: A BIBLICAL STUDY ON THE USE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES
A PREVIEW OF WINE IN THE BIBLE

Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D., Andrews University

A comment I often hear when meeting readers of my books in different parts of the world, goes something like this: "I enjoyed immensely your book on . . . , but I must confess that I haven’t finished reading it yet." Reading only a portion of a book often means missing what could be the most important part of its content and failing to gain a complete picture of the subject presented.

Partly out of consideration toward those readers whose busy lifestyle makes it difficult to read a book through systematically to the end, and partly out of a desire to give at the outset an overview of the issues discussed, I decided to try something new. Instead of giving a summary of this book at the end by way of conclusion, I am presenting a preview of its content at the beginning. The concept of a preview is hardly new. The underlying assumption is that if a person likes the preview, he or she will be motivated to purchase the product. Applied to this study, it is my hope that an introductory preview will accomplish two objectives: (1) provide an overview of the various issues examined and conclusions reached; (2) stimulate readers to read the whole book to gain a fuller understanding of the many issues discussed.

This book addresses from a Biblical perspective the most prevailing, costly and destructive habit of our society, the drinking of alcoholic beverages.

A Look at the Drinking Problem. The study begins in Chapter 1 with a look at the drinking problem in America today and our Christian responsibility toward it. The drinking of alcoholic beverages by over 100 million Americans is rightly regarded by social analysts as America’s number-one public enemy. This "beloved enemy," as Jack Van Impe calls it,1 claims at least 100,000 American lives per year, 25 times as many as all illegal drugs combined.2

The economic cost to the American society of the use of alcohol is estimated by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism at $117 billion a year.3 This staggering figure includes the cost of premature deaths, reduced production and special treatments.

The real human cost of alcohol, however, transcends any statistical estimate of deaths, disabilities or dollar figures. A 1987 Gallup Poll indicates that 1 in 4 families are troubled by alcohol.4 This means that more than 61 million Americans are affected by some alcohol-related problems such as retarded children, divorce, violence in the home, crime, sickness and death.

A Christian Responsibility. Christian churches bear considerable responsibility for the inestimable human and economic costs of alcohol, because through their beliefs, teachings and preaching they are able to influence the moral values and practices of society, possibly more than does any other institution. For example, in the early part of this century evangelical churches played a major role in influencing the passing of the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States on January 16, 1919, outlawing the "manufacture, sale or transportation" of alcoholic beverages.

Since the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, however, most churches have abandoned their stand for total abstinence, encouragin " moderation" instead. Unfortunately, moderation has led over 18 million Americans to become immoderate drinkers,5 because alcohol is a habit-forming narcotic which weakens one’s capacity for self-control.

The moderationist position rests on the belief that Scripture condemns the immoderate use of alcohol but approves its moderate use. This belief is in turn based on the assumption that the Bible knows only of fermented wine ("one wine theory") which it considers as a divine blessing to be enjoyed with moderation. According to this theory, any condemnation of wine in the Bible refers not to the kind of wine, but to the amount consumed.

Moral or Medical Issue? By maintaining that the Bible sanctions the moderate use of alcoholic beverages, moderationists have led people to believe that drinking alcohol is not a moral but a medical issue. It is not a transgression of a God-given principle, but a habit which can harm one’s health, if abused. The elimination of any sinful connotation from the use of alcohol has had an enormous influence on the drinking habits of millions of Christians. It has provided Christians with an alleged Biblical and moral justification for drinking alcohol, thus depriving them of a Biblical and moral conviction for abstaining from intoxicating beverages.

In view of the immense influence the moderationist view has had on the drinking habits of millions of Christians, the major objective of this study has been to examine its fundamental assumption, namely, that the Bible sanctions a moderate use of alcoholic beverages. Since this assumption is dictated by the belief that the terms for "wine" in the Bible always mean "fermented wine," I began this investigation by ascertaining the Biblical and historical usage of such terms.

The Meaning of "Wine." The objective of the survey conducted in Chapter 2 was to ascertain if the terms used for "wine" in the Bible denote exclusively fermented wine or inclusively either fermented or unfermented wine. I traced the usage of the word "wine" backward, from English, to Latin, Greek and finally to Hebrew. The survey shows that the four related words—wine in English, vinum in Latin, oinos in Greek and yayin in Hebrew—have been used historically to refer to the juice of the grape, whether fermented or unfermented. This significant finding discredits the claim that the Bible knows only fermented wine, which it approves when used moderately. The truth of the matter is that the Bible knows both fermented wine, which it disapproves, and unfermented grape juice, which it approves.

"Wine" in Biblical Perspective. Building on the conclusions reached in Chapter 2, I proceeded in Chapter 3 to examine the reasons for the Biblical approval and disapproval of wine. What I found is that the positive references to "wine" have to do with unfermented and unintoxicating grape juice. Because of its natural and nourishing properties, grape juice was fittingly used to represent the divine blessing of material prosperity (Gen 27:28; 49:10-11; Deut 33:28), the blessing of the messianic age (Joel 2:18-19; Jer 31:10-12; Amos 9:13, 14), the free offer of God’s saving grace (Is 55:1), the wholesome joy God offers to His people (Ps 104:14-15; 4:7), and the acknowledgment of God through the use of grape juice as tithe, offerings and libations (Num 18:12; Deut 14:23; Ex 29:40; Lev 23:13).

On the other hand, the negative references to "wine" have to do with fermented and intoxicating wine. Some of the reasons Scripture condemns the use of alcoholic beverages are that they distort the perception of reality (Is 28:7; Prov 23:33); they impair the capacity to make responsible decisions (Lev 10:9-11); they weaken moral sensitivities and inhibitions (Gen 9:21; 19:32; Hab 2:15; Is 5:11-12); they cause physical sickness (Prov 23:20-21; Hos 7:5; Is 19:14; Ps 60:3); and they disqualify for both civil and religious service (Prov 31:4-5; Lev 10:9-11; Ezek 44:23; 1 Tim 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-8).

The Preservation of Wine. A major objection against the view that Scripture approves the use of unfermented grape juice is the alleged impossibility in Bible times of preserving grape juice unfermented. Thus, I devoted Chapter 4 to probing this popular assumption by investigating the testimonies of ancient writers regarding the art of preserving fruits and wines in general and grape juice in particular. To my surprise I discovered that the ancients were far more knowledgeable in the art of preserving fruits and wines than is generally believed.

Contrary to popular opinion, the problems the ancients encountered in preserving fermented wine were as great as, if not actually greater than, those faced in preserving unfermented grape juice. To prevent fermented wine from becoming acid, moldy, or foul-smelling, vintners used a host of preservatives such as salt, sea-water, liquid or solid pitch, boiled-down must, marble dust, lime, sulphur fumes and crushed iris.

In comparison to preserving fermented wine, preserving grape juice unfermented was a relatively simpler process. It was accomplished by boiling down the juice to a syrup, or by separating the fermentable pulp from the juice of the grape by means of filtration, or by placing the grape juice in sealed jars which were immersed in a pool of cold water, or by fumigating the wine jars with sulphur before sealing them. The use of such techniques clearly indicates that the means of preserving grape juice without fermentation were known and used in the ancient world. This conclusion is indirectly supported by the teachings and example of Jesus.

Jesus and Wine. The next logical step was to examine the major wine-related stories or sayings of Jesus since these are commonly used to prove that Christ made, commended, used and even commanded the use of alcoholic wine. In Chapter 5 I went into considerable detail to examine these claims. The conclusion of my analysis is that they are devoid of textual, contextual and historical support.

The "good wine" Jesus made at Cana (John 2:10) was "good" not because of its high alcoholic content, but because it was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is indicated by external and internal considerations. Externally, contemporary authors, such as Pliny and Plutarch, attest that "good wines" were those which did not intoxicate, having had their alcoholic potency removed. Internally, moral consistency demands that Christ could not have miraculously produced between 120 to 160 gallons of intoxicating wine for the use of men, women and children gathered at the Cana’s wedding feast, without becoming morally responsible for prolonging and increasing their intoxication. Scriptural and moral consistency requires that "the good wine" produced by Christ was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is supported by the very adjective used to describe it, namely kalos, which denotes that which is morally excellent, instead of agathos, which means simply good.

The "new wine" Jesus commended through the parable of the new wineskins (Luke 5:37-38; Mark 2:22) was unfermented must, either boiled or filtered, because not even new wineskins could withstand the pressure of the gas produced by fermenting new wine.

The self-description of Jesus as "eating and drinking" (Matt 11:19; Luke 7:34) does not imply that He used alcoholic wine, but rather that He freely associated with people at their meals and elsewhere. The phrase "eating and drinking" was used idiomatically to describe Christ’s social lifestyle.

The "fruit of the vine" Christ commanded to be used as a memorial of His redeeming blood (Matt 26:28-29; Mark 14:24-25) was not fermented wine, which in the Scripture represents human depravity and divine indignation, but pure unfermented grape juice, which is a fitting emblem of Christ’s untainted blood shed for the remission of our sins. This conclusion was established through a study of the language of the Last Supper, the Jewish Passover wine, the Passover law of fermentation, the consistency of the symbol and the survival of the use of unfermented grape juice at the Lord’s Supper. Most telling is the fact that Josephus calls the freshly squeezed grape juice "the fruit of the vine." This establishes unequivocally that the phrase was used to designate the sweet, unfermented juice of the grape. The evidences submitted shows that Jesus abstained from all intoxicating substances and gave no sanction to His followers for using them.
 
...cont
Wine in the Apostolic Church. The way the Apostolic Church understood, preached and practiced the teachings of Jesus and of the Old Testament regarding the use of alcoholic beverages provides a most valuable verification and clarification as to whether Scripture teaches moderation or abstinence. In view of the fundamental importance attached to the witness of the Apostolic Church, my next logical step was to examine in Chapter 6 the apostolic teachings regarding the use of wine in particular and of intoxicating substances in general.

This investigation proved to be the most rewarding. Contrary to the prevailing perception, I found that the New Testament is amazingly consistent in its teaching of abstinence from the use of alcoholic beverages. The very passages often used to support the moderationist view, under close scrutiny were found to negate such a view, teaching abstinence instead. For example, the irony of the mockers’ charge that on the day of Pentecost the apostles were drunk on gleukos, that is, on the grape juice which apparently was their common beverage (Acts 2:13), provides an indirect but important proof of their abstmious life-style and inferentially of the life-style of their Master. There would have been no point in the mockers' attributing to unfermented grape juice the cause of the disciples' strange actions, if it was not common knowledge that the apostles abstained from intoxicating wine. The intended jibewas that the disciples were such naíve simpletons they got drunk on grape juice!

Similarly, Paul’s reference to drunkenness at the communion table of the Corinthian church (1 Cor 11:21) offers no support for a moderate use of alcoholic wine, for two reasons. First, whatever was done at Corinth was a departure from the instructions Paul had delivered to the church (1 Cor 11:23); thus, the Corinthians' conduct constitutes a warning rather than an example for us. Second, a study of the meaning of the verb methuo ("satiated") and of the implications of Paul’s admonitions, clearly suggests that the problem at Corinth was indulgence in eating rather than intoxication with alcoholic wine.

I found one of the most powerful Biblical indictments against intoxicating wine in Ephesians 5:18, where Paul condemns wine as the cause of debauchery and shows the irreconcilable contrast between the spirit of wine and the Holy Spirit of God. To my great surprise, however, I found that most English translations and commentaries have chosen to translate or interpret Ephesians 5:18 by making "drunkenness" rather than "wine" the cause of debauchery. This was surprising to me because not only the Catholic and Protestant Italian translations, with which I am most familiar, but also numerous other ancient and modern translations, all translate Paul’s text as saying that in the very nature of wine is debauchery. It seems that some English translators had such a predilection for wine that they decided, to borrow the words of Ernest Gordon, to "save the face of wine while condemning drunkenness."6

The translators’ bias toward wine became most evident in the study of the apostolic admonitions to abstinence, expressed through the verb nepho and the adjective nephalios. The first meaning of the verb is "to abstain from wine" and of the adjective "abstinent, without wine." Yet these words have been consistently translated with their secondary sense of being "temperate, sober, steady," rather than by their primary sense of being "abstinent." Such biased and inaccurate translations have misled many sincere Christians into believing that the Bible teaches moderation in the use of alcoholic beverages, rather than abstinence from them.

It was equally surprising for me to discover that the fundamental reason given by Peter and Paul for their call to a life of mental vigilance and physical abstinence is eschatological, namely, preparation to live in the holy presence of Christ at His soon Coming. This reason has added significance for Christians like the Seventh-day Adventists, who accept the Biblical teachings on the Second Advent literally rather than existentially, that is, as a future realization of our present expectations rather than a present experience of the future. To abstain from intoxicating substances represents a tangible response to God’s invitation to make concrete preparation for the physical return of Christ. The analysis of the apostolic teachings regarding alcoholic beverages presented in Chapter 6, the longest in the book, provides in my view the most compelling defense of the Biblical principle of abstinence from intoxicating beverages.

Some Misunderstood Passages. To be fair to those who find support for their moderationist position in certain Biblical passages, I devoted Chapter 7 to an extensive analysis of five of such passages. The study of each text in the light of its immediate and larger context, the historical customs of the time and the overall teaching of Scripture, has shown that none of them contradict the Biblical imperative for abstinence. On the contrary, some of them indirectly but conclusively support abstinence.

Proverbs 31:6, for example, suggests in an ironical fashion that alcoholic beverages are only suited for killing the excruciating pain of someone who is dying. Similarly, Hosea 4:11 provides no justification for a moderate use of alcoholic beverages for two reasons. First, because "wine and new wine" are mentioned figuratively, as representative of the good gifts God had provided to the children of Israel, gifts which they had used for idolatrous purposes. Second, even if "wine and new wine" were alcoholic, they are condemned in the text for taking away understanding, irrespective of the quantity used.

In a different yet equally convincing way, 1 Timothy 5:23 supports the principle of abstinence in two significant ways. First, the advice, "No longer drink only water," implies that Timothy, like the priests and Nazirites, had abstained until that time from both fermented and unfermented wines, presumably in accordance with the instructions and example of Paul. Second, the apostle recommended to Timothy to use only a little wine, not for the physical pleasure of the belly, but for the medical need of the stomach. Ancient writers such as Aristotle, Athanaeus, and Pliny indicate that unfermented wine was known and preferred to alcoholic wine for medical purposes, because it did not have the side effects of the latter. In the light of these testimonies and of the other Biblical teachings regarding wine, it is reasonable to assume that the wine recommended by Paul for medical use was unfermented grape juice.

The conclusion of this whole study on the Biblical teaching regarding the use of alcoholic beverages can be summarized in one sentence: Scripture is consistent in teaching moderation in the use of wholesome, unfermented beverages and abstinence from the use of intoxicating fermented beverages.

Ellen White and Alcoholic Beverages. In view of the major influence exerted by Ellen G. While in the adoption of the Biblical principle of abstinence from alcoholic beverages by the Seventh-day Adventist church, I felt it appropriate to examine in Chapter 8 her understanding of Christian temperance in general and of abstinence in particular.

The study reveals that for Ellen White the message of temperance was a fundamental part of the gospel and of the mission of the Seventh-day Adventist church. Such a message entails teaching people moderation in the use of healthful things and abstinence from the use of harmful things such as alcoholic beverages.

Ellen White deeply believed that total abstinence is a principle clearly taught in the Scripture by warnings and examples. Disregard for this principle represents a violation of the law of God. Obedience to this principle, through Christ’s enabling power, contributes to the restoration of God’s moral image in us. This restoration is an essential part of our preparation for Christ’s return.

Ellen White discusses at great length the harmful effects of the use of alcoholic beverages upon the individual, the home and society at large. The ill effects upon the drinker are mental, moral and physical. As for the home, the use of alcoholic beverages often deprives families of their basic necessities, and fosters violence and the abuse of children. With reference to society, Ellen White finds alcohol consumption to be an incentive to crime, a major cause of accidents and of public-health problems. The theological convictions and practical counsels of Ellen White on the use of alcoholic beverages stand out, in my view, for their Biblical consistency and their practical relevance to our time.

Alcohol in America. To help the reader appreciate from a social and medical perspective why the Bible condemns the use of alcoholic beverages, I have devoted Chapter 9 to a brief survey of the social and medical consequences of alcohol consumption in American society. The survey indicates that the cost of alcohol use to the American people is appallingly high, not only in economic terms ($117 billion per year), but also in terms of human pain, misery, violence, child and spouse abuse, divorces, crime, sickness and death. It is inconceivable to think that at least 100,000 human lives are lost every year in America alone because of alcohol-related problems.

If America wants to deal effectively with the tragedy of alcohol, it must develop an entirely new cultural attitude through the aggressive promotion of abstinence. Christians can play a vital role in this endeavor, if they recover the Biblical imperative for abstinence. It is only when Christians recognize and accept the fact that drinking alcoholic beverages is not only physically harmful, but also Biblically and morally wrong, that they are likely to feel compelled, not only to abstain from intoxicating substances themselves, but also to help others do likewise.

NOTES ON PREVIEW

1. The phrase "beloved enemy" is used by Jack Van Impe repeatedly in his book, Alcohol: The Beloved Enemy (Royal Oak, Michigan, 1980).

2. The figures are provided by the 1986 report of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, as quoted in "Coming to Grips with Alcoholism," U.S. News & World Report (November 30, 1987):56.

3. Ibid.

4. Ibid., p. 57.

5. Ibid., p. 56.

6. Ernest Gordon, Christ, the Apostles and Wine (Philadelphia, 1947), p. 31.
 
I'm not trying to argue with you as i'm sure you know the Bible better than I , but isn't there a story of how they ran out of wine at a wedding and Jesus turned the water into wine so that everyone could drink and celebrate.Or did they each just drink a sip of wine so they could all stay sober???


ha ha very true, I honestly dont know what went on at that wedding. one thing I do know is that is a highly symbolic story, John the Baptist was baptizing with water, and proclaiming that true baptism is done with the holy spirit, which could not come until the sacrifice of Jesus, and we know that at the last supper Jesus spoke of wine as a symbol of His blood. the waiter made a comment about the good wine usually being put out first, not last, and we see that the blood of animals had been used as sacrifice for sins in the past and now Jesus, the good wine, was to be used as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins.

One thing with reading the Bible is that one passage is not to be interpreted without looking at the Bible as a whole, bviously something as large as the Bible and at times as hard to understand, people can make it say anything given a small passage. When viewed with the many other times the Bible condemns drunkeness, it would be incorrect to say that it condoned it. Now I wasnt at the wedding, so I dont know what happened there, but I know the intent was symbolic, and it was the first miracle Jesus did, which set the stage for His reason for coming to earth.

Sorry for the long windedness, I am certainly not the ultimate authority, and if you want to drink, who am I to condemn you? The Bible certainly says its wrong, however today I have been lazy at work, thought bitter thoughts about a co-worker for no reason, looked lustfully upon a woman, need I go on (thanks for making me feel bad about myself haha)? I have obviously sinned and need to look in the mirror. All I want to do is to hopefully clarify any confusion, after all, how can we know we need to repent and ask forgiveness when we dont know it is wrong? What you do with this is up to you, but please forigve if I sound judgmental or prideful, that is certainly not the intent, as I dont have anyhting to judge but myself.
 
I'm not trying to argue with you as i'm sure you know the Bible better than I , but isn't there a story of how they ran out of wine at a wedding and Jesus turned the water into wine so that everyone could drink and celebrate.Or did they each just drink a sip of wine so they could all stay sober???
"The "good wine" Jesus made at Cana (John 2:10) was "good" not because of its high alcoholic content, but because it was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is indicated by external and internal considerations. Externally, contemporary authors, such as Pliny and Plutarch, attest that "good wines" were those which did not intoxicate, having had their alcoholic potency removed. Internally, moral consistency demands that Christ could not have miraculously produced between 120 to 160 gallons of intoxicating wine for the use of men, women and children gathered at the Cana’s wedding feast, without becoming morally responsible for prolonging and increasing their intoxication. Scriptural and moral consistency requires that "the good wine" produced by Christ was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is supported by the very adjective used to describe it, namely kalos, which denotes that which is morally excellent, instead of agathos, which means simply good."
 
Jesus was fond of wine folks. Good enough for the son of God, good enough for me =D

Some argue that the “wine” spoken of in such Bible texts was ordinary grape juice. McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia, however, reminds us that “the Bible makes no distinction between intoxicating and non-intoxicating wines—never refers or alludes to such a distinction.” Consistent with this, in the Bible “wine” is shown to be an intoxicating beverage and is associated with “strong drink.”—Genesis 9:21; Luke 1:15; Deuteronomy 14:26; Proverbs 31:4,*6.

Interestingly, Jesus’ first miracle was to convert water into wine. The Bible account says: “When, now, the director of the feast tasted the .*.*. wine but did not know what its source was, .*.*. [he] called the bridegroom and said to him: ‘Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.’” (John 2:9,*10) Yes, “the fine wine” Jesus produced was real wine.

Indeed, self-righteous religious leaders in Jesus’ day criticized him for occasionally drinking wine. Said Jesus: “John the Baptist has come neither eating bread nor drinking wine, but you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of man has come eating and drinking, but you say, ‘Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine!’” (Luke 7:33,*34) What would have been the point of contrast between Jesus’ drinking and John’s not drinking if Jesus had merely been drinking nonalcoholic grape juice? Remember, it was said of John that he was to “drink no wine and strong drink at all.”—Luke 1:15.

Obviously, Jesus did not condemn the drinking of alcoholic beverages in moderation. In his day the drinking of wine was a part of the celebration of the Passover. And real wine continued to be a part of the Lord’s Evening Meal, which replaced the Pass
 
Jesus was fond of wine folks. Good enough for the son of God, good enough for me =D

Not only that but science has uncovered that a glass of wine is very good for your health. Even taken every evening. It's in the bible for a reason ;) So many compounds on earth have good properties but when anything is taken in excess it causes a imbalance. Whether it be mental or physical.
 
Jesus was fond of wine folks. Good enough for the son of God, good enough for me =D

Some argue that the “wine” spoken of in such Bible texts was ordinary grape juice. McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia, however, reminds us that “the Bible makes no distinction between intoxicating and non-intoxicating wines—never refers or alludes to such a distinction.” Consistent with this, in the Bible “wine” is shown to be an intoxicating beverage and is associated with “strong drink.”—Genesis 9:21; Luke 1:15; Deuteronomy 14:26; Proverbs 31:4,*6.

Interestingly, Jesus’ first miracle was to convert water into wine. The Bible account says: “When, now, the director of the feast tasted the .*.*. wine but did not know what its source was, .*.*. [he] called the bridegroom and said to him: ‘Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.’” (John 2:9,*10) Yes, “the fine wine” Jesus produced was real wine.

Indeed, self-righteous religious leaders in Jesus’ day criticized him for occasionally drinking wine. Said Jesus: “John the Baptist has come neither eating bread nor drinking wine, but you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of man has come eating and drinking, but you say, ‘Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine!’” (Luke 7:33,*34) What would have been the point of contrast between Jesus’ drinking and John’s not drinking if Jesus had merely been drinking nonalcoholic grape juice? Remember, it was said of John that he was to “drink no wine and strong drink at all.”—Luke 1:15.

Obviously, Jesus did not condemn the drinking of alcoholic beverages in moderation. In his day the drinking of wine was a part of the celebration of the Passover. And real wine continued to be a part of the Lord’s Evening Meal, which replaced the Pass
Did you read any of what was posted above?

"The "good wine" Jesus made at Cana (John 2:10) was "good" not because of its high alcoholic content, but because it was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is indicated by external and internal considerations. Externally, contemporary authors, such as Pliny and Plutarch, attest that "good wines" were those which did not intoxicate, having had their alcoholic potency removed. Internally, moral consistency demands that Christ could not have miraculously produced between 120 to 160 gallons of intoxicating wine for the use of men, women and children gathered at the Cana’s wedding feast, without becoming morally responsible for prolonging and increasing their intoxication. Scriptural and moral consistency requires that "the good wine" produced by Christ was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is supported by the very adjective used to describe it, namely kalos, which denotes that which is morally excellent, instead of agathos, which means simply good."

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Did you read any of what was posted above?

"The "good wine" Jesus made at Cana (John 2:10) was "good" not because of its high alcoholic content, but because it was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is indicated by external and internal considerations. Externally, contemporary authors, such as Pliny and Plutarch, attest that "good wines" were those which did not intoxicate, having had their alcoholic potency removed. Internally, moral consistency demands that Christ could not have miraculously produced between 120 to 160 gallons of intoxicating wine for the use of men, women and children gathered at the Cana’s wedding feast, without becoming morally responsible for prolonging and increasing their intoxication. Scriptural and moral consistency requires that "the good wine" produced by Christ was fresh, unfermented grape juice. This is supported by the very adjective used to describe it, namely kalos, which denotes that which is morally excellent, instead of agathos, which means simply good."

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I stand by what the bible says, not Greek scholars. If Jesus recognized the fact that good wine was wine that made you intoxicated, then he made good wine by his own definition. Since they were moral, free willed people they had the choice whether or not to become intoxicated. It would not be on Jesus head. Just like it is not on God's head that mankind disobeyed him and we are now living in this day and age because of that lack of judgement. Sorry but you are wrong.

The Bible does not prohibit the drinking of alcoholic drinks. In most cases, whether to have strong drink or not is a matter for personal decision. Yet the Bible forcefully condemns drunkenness, along with gluttony: “Do not come to be among heavy drinkers of wine, .*.*. gluttonous eaters of flesh. For a drunkard and a glutton will come to poverty.” (Proverbs 23:20,*21) Thus, all should display moderation and self-control. “Do not be getting drunk with wine, in which there is debauchery, but keep getting filled with spirit.” Remember, self-control is one of the fruits of God’s spirit.—Ephesians 5:18; Galatians 5:19-23.
 
In Palestine the grapes were gathered during August and September, depending on the type of grapes and the climate of the region. The vintage season was practically over by the time “the festival of booths” was celebrated in the early part of autumn. (De 16:13) After being picked, the grapes were placed in limestone vats, or troughs, where men usually crushed them barefoot, singing songs as they trod the winepress. (Isa 16:10; Jer 25:30; 48:33) With such comparatively gentle crushing methods, the stems and seeds were not broken down, so that little of the tannic acid in the skins was expressed; this, in turn, made for a high-quality wine, one that was smooth and soft on the palate. (Ca 7:9) Sometimes heavy stones were used instead of feet.

The first “must,” or fresh juice, that flows from the broken skins of the grapes, if kept separate from the greater volume of juice extracted under pressure, makes the richest and best wines. Fermentation begins within six hours after the crushing, while the juice is still in the vats, and slowly progresses for a period of several months. The alcohol content of the natural wines varies from 8 to 16 percent by volume, but this can be increased by adding alcoholic spirits later on. If grapes are low in sugar content, and fermentation continues too long, or if the wine is not properly protected from oxidizing, it turns to acetic acid, or vinegar.—Ru 2:14.

During the aging period the wine was kept in jars or skin bottles. (Jer 13:12) These containers were probably vented in such a way as to allow the carbon dioxide gas (a by-product in the conversion of the sugars to alcohol through fermentation) to escape without admitting oxygen from the air to contact and react with the wine. (Job 32:19) As the wines were left undisturbed they gradually clarified, the dregs falling to the bottom, with an improvement in the bouquet and flavor. (Lu 5:39) Thereafter wines were usually transferred to other vessels.—Isa 25:6; Jer 48:11
 
I stand by what the bible says, not Greek scholars. If Jesus recognized the fact that good wine was wine that made you intoxicated, then he made good wine by his own definition. Since they were moral, free willed people they had the choice whether or not to become intoxicated. It would not be on Jesus head. Just like it is not on God's head that mankind disobeyed him and we are now living in this day and age because of that lack of judgement.

I agree. A glutton analogy would be like this...Bake someone a pie, tell them don't eat the whole thing at once. If they use sound judgement they will not but if they don't listen they have used poor judgement. Why? Because they will get sick. If they continue that behavior they will become fat and that will lead to health problems. It's not your fault they ate the whole pie, you told em not to and you told them because you cared about their well being. Remember this, God's word was not just written to tell us what Sin is, it is also for our protection. Who knows us better then God? No one. He loves us and doesn't want us to go down a path with bad consequence because he already knows the outcome. Just like any sane parent would feel ;)

2 timothy 3:16*"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17*that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."
 
I'm not trying to argue with you as i'm sure you know the Bible better than I , but isn't there a story of how they ran out of wine at a wedding and Jesus turned the water into wine so that everyone could drink and celebrate.Or did they each just drink a sip of wine so they could all stay sober???

John 2:6-10

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a]

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

20-30 gallons of wine for guests that had already had too much to drink.

One of the few celebrations Jesus was part of was a wedding (never mentioned him at a birthday celebration though). The scripture shows balance in his personality- there's a time and place for everything.
 
1 Timothy 5:23

(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
 
Note 16 at 1 Tim. 5:23: Paul's instruction to Timothy to drink wine is problematic for some people because they believe Christians should totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages. They go to great lengths to explain that this was un-fermented grape juice, or at worst, weak, diluted wine, but that is not the case.

The wine that was used in the New Testament by our Lord and the early disciples was alcoholic or the saints couldn't have gotten drunk on it during communion (1 Cor. 11:21). The scriptures don't forbid drinking alcoholic beverages, they forbid drunkenness. It is possible to drink in moderation and never violate the teachings of scripture.
 
Note 16 at 1 Tim. 5:23: Paul's instruction to Timothy to drink wine is problematic for some people because they believe Christians should totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages. They go to great lengths to explain that this was un-fermented grape juice, or at worst, weak, diluted wine, but that is not the case.

The wine that was used in the New Testament by our Lord and the early disciples was alcoholic or the saints couldn't have gotten drunk on it during communion (1 Cor. 11:21). The scriptures don't forbid drinking alcoholic beverages, they forbid drunkenness. It is possible to drink in moderation and never violate the teachings of scripture.

Agreed and "Grape juice" can also not burst new wineskins.
 
John 2:6-10

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a]

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

20-30 gallons of wine for guests that had already had too much to drink.

One of the few celebrations Jesus was part of was a wedding (never mentioned him at a birthday celebration though). The scripture shows balance in his personality- there's a time and place for everything.
John 2:1-5

On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

“Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

There is another underlying message being delivered here as well:

Excerpt from "Session 8 of The Men's Fraternity - Quest For Authentic Manhood: Making a Healthy Break With Mom"

Now I want you to look at a second passage. This occurred when Jesus was 30 years old. He’s not a boy now. He’s a man, and there’s a social moment here as Jesus is actually in the first part of His public ministry.


In John 2, it says: “And on the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there, and Jesus also was invited, and His disciples to the wedding, and when the wine gave out. (Now, just imagine – it’s a party. It’s a social situation; there are people there having fun together, and the wine gives out. And the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” Do you hear a message in that, guys? Let me say it probably the way Jesus heard it: “Boy, they have no wine! You’re God…”)
That’s exactly how it felt. You can feel it. There are orders being given. They’re not being given direct, the way a man would say it. They’re being given indirectly, through the relationship, ‘You owe me; I’m your mother.’ And what did Jesus say? “Well, mom, come on…” - no, He doesn’t say that. He speaks as a man who doesn’t want to be bonded in this way. He doesn’t say ‘Mom.’ He says [and listen; it’s strong, isn’t it?]: “Woman, what do I have to do with you?” Don’t push me. That’s what’s happening here. Cut - cut. That’s what you’re feeling. But notice He’s a thirty year old man - ‘Don’t tell Me what to do.’ Maybe another way of paraphrasing it: ‘Take your umbilical cord away from Me. I don’t want it.’
 

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not to cut debate short, and there have been many nice responses and knowledge about the differences in wine, etc. But lets keep the main point in sight, to be drunk is a sin, period, there is no way around that. If you want to drink beer or wine, go for it, if you want to get drunk that is your decision, but dont be deceived, loss of sobriety is a sin.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


Isaiah 28:7
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment.

Isaiah 5:11
Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, [that] they may follow STRONG DRINK; that continue until night, [till] wine inflame them!
 
Not only that but science has uncovered that a glass of wine is very good for your health. Even taken every evening. It's in the bible for a reason ;) So many compounds on earth have good properties but when anything is taken in excess it causes a imbalance. Whether it be mental or physical.

I don't claim to be a scholar, but i believe a glass or 2 of wine with dinner is not a sin. If it were, all of Europe would be going to hell because that's how the majority of Europeans live.
 
I don't claim to be a scholar, but i believe a glass or 2 of wine with dinner is not a sin. If it were, all of Europe would be going to hell because that's how the majority of Europeans live.

A couple problems with this post. First, people go to hell because they do not ask for forgiveness of their sins and believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Second, the Bible does not condone drunkenness period, loss of sobriety is a sin, regardless of societal or cultural norms. You can rationalize within your head all you want and it doesnt change the fact. I try to think all the time that women want me and are just intimidated by my good looks, but it doesnt change the fact I am an ugly man. I am sorry if I come off a little harsh here, but truth is truth, whether you believe or not doesnt change the fact, or the truth.

think about what you know about Jesus, about the ten commandments, about how the Bible says we should live and tell me how you can think being drunk fits in. I know when I used to get drunk I did a lot of mean things, stupid things, was more apt to fight, curse, feel sorry for myself, be a nuissance, blow off important things, etc., the list could go on and on, and I am sure each here could add more things. It is just common sense.

I understand and agree that drinking and getting drunk and losing your sobriety are two different things. If just talking about drinking a glass of wine or two, if you can do that without going beyond your limits, go for it. But dont use it as a means of justifying getting drunk and partying. If you do that is fine, call a spade a spade, it is a sin, period, so is lying, so is being lazy at work, so is lusting after women (yes pornography is a sin). I admit openly I am a sinner, I have many things I need to work on, but thank God He shows me these things. How can we change what we dont realize is wrong?

I hope this is going to end up a positive in someones life and not drive people away, I just want people to be clear on what is and is not ok, just in case they do have the desire to change that part of their life. It is a personal decision between you and God.
 
A couple problems with this post. First, people go to hell because they do not ask for forgiveness of their sins and believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Second, the Bible does not condone drunkenness period, loss of sobriety is a sin, regardless of societal or cultural norms. You can rationalize within your head all you want and it doesnt change the fact. I try to think all the time that women want me and are just intimidated by my good looks, but it doesnt change the fact I am an ugly man. I am sorry if I come off a little harsh here, but truth is truth, whether you believe or not doesnt change the fact, or the truth.

think about what you know about Jesus, about the ten commandments, about how the Bible says we should live and tell me how you can think being drunk fits in. I know when I used to get drunk I did a lot of mean things, stupid things, was more apt to fight, curse, feel sorry for myself, be a nuissance, blow off important things, etc., the list could go on and on, and I am sure each here could add more things. It is just common sense.

I understand and agree that drinking and getting drunk and losing your sobriety are two different things. If just talking about drinking a glass of wine or two, if you can do that without going beyond your limits, go for it. But dont use it as a means of justifying getting drunk and partying. If you do that is fine, call a spade a spade, it is a sin, period, so is lying, so is being lazy at work, so is lusting after women (yes pornography is a sin). I admit openly I am a sinner, I have many things I need to work on, but thank God He shows me these things. How can we change what we dont realize is wrong?

I hope this is going to end up a positive in someones life and not drive people away, I just want people to be clear on what is and is not ok, just in case they do have the desire to change that part of their life. It is a personal decision between you and God.

I do understand that, i was just trying to simplify it. Plenty of Europeans drink wine daily, don't consider it a sin, end up in Heaven.. And i don't believe it's a sin. i should have put it that way.
 
Honestly tho, who among us lives this way? Just about no one. However, I know plenty of people who "sin" in your eyes and are much greater of a person than the few people I know who do not "sin".
 
My Father has always had a couple of glasses of wine with his dinner, it's part of our culture. I think i've seen him drunk maybee once in my life. He's a good man believes in God, works hard and lives an honest life. He's a sinner just like everyone else, but his glass of wine with dinner is not a sin.
 
My Father has always had a couple of glasses of wine with his dinner, it's part of our culture. I think i've seen him drunk maybee once in my life. He's a good man believes in God, works hard and lives an honest life. He's a sinner just like everyone else, but his glass of wine with dinner is not a sin.

I agree, a bottle or two with dinner would be a sin, but not a glass or two.
 
James 3:2 "For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man, able to bridle also [his] whole body."

1 John 8: 8 If we make the statement: “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. "

Hebrews 4:15 " For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.
 
Honestly tho, who among us lives this way? Just about no one. However, I know plenty of people who "sin" in your eyes and are much greater of a person than the few people I know who do not "sin".
Unfortunately for either you are not in the position to judge.

"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." - Heb 4:12
 
Alcohol at the very least impairs judgement and reduces inhibitions.

1 Peter 5:8-9

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
 
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