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Rasie SHBG with T3, Unsupervised

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You're not with the same girl anymore that you mentioned at the start of this thread?

Most women can go several times though, at least it's normal to. I know some who can have 10-12 orgasms over the span of hours. I've been with some who wanted to stop after their first big O though...now THAT sucks...
 
Gutterpump said:
You're not with the same girl anymore that you mentioned at the start of this thread?

Most women can go several times though, at least it's normal to. I know some who can have 10-12 orgasms over the span of hours. I've been with some who wanted to stop after their first big O though...now THAT sucks...
Click to expand...

I've been on an off with the anti-TRT girl. The second girl I was talking about is new, and I don't know her boundaries/abilities yet, since I'm unable to have sex. All I know is that she is super horny because she gets so wet that it comes through her jeans.

My long-term girlfriend seemed to only be able to have one at a time. It could have been just that she stopped when I stopped.

I have never understood the multiple-orgasm thing. When I was 16, one of my friends was telling me about getting caught having sex in his car. He mentioned multiple used condoms and I was bewildered. "Why would you need more than one condom?!" I couldn't beleive that it was possible for a person to have sex multiple times within a short amount of time.

Hell, I still can't believe it.

I forgot to mention, the new girl, extremely attractive, has been throwing out the "I don't believe you actually like girls. Are you sure you aren't gay?" stuff. I have heard this from more than one girl due to my inability to perform. That's why I'm in a bit of a panic and taking unsupervised medication.
 
When I said multiples, I meant for the girls, not the guys! It's totally normal for women to have multiple O's. Most do.. The women I know who want to stop, get waaay too sensitive after their O. I'm sure they can keep going again after a short break though.

Men don't normally ever have multiples without enhancers and practice. It's rare, without a big dopamine push before sex... and enhancers for that can either be illegal, or not really helpful for everyone.
 
Dude, enough with the SHBG bull****. That is not the issue!
All SHBG does is tie up test, estrogen, and particularly DHT. The less you have, the better. Like we told you over a week ago, the low SHBG is probably just an indicator of a more serious medical condition, not a problem in itself. Forget trying to boost SHBG and work harder on figuring out why it is low.

Also, have you tried just supplementing with some proviron yet? Because DHT is more closely tied to libido than basically anything else.
 
Gator 87 said:
Dude, enough with the SHBG bull****. That is not the issue!
All SHBG does is tie up test, estrogen, and particularly DHT. The less you have, the better. Like we told you over a week ago, the low SHBG is probably just an indicator of a more serious medical condition, not a problem in itself. Forget trying to boost SHBG and work harder on figuring out why it is low.

Also, have you tried just supplementing with some proviron yet? Because DHT is more closely tied to libido than basically anything else.
Click to expand...

I need all of those things tied up. 4% of TT is FT in my body. Too much! I need to be at 2% like a healthy male. If too much T is free, the body will keep TT low.

I understand that low SHBG might be a sign of something else, but it is CAUSING my low TT either way. I do not have money or medical insurance and that is the whole point of this thread -- I need to do something about SHBG /immediately/, but can't afford tests.

I tried a few weeks of Proviron when I was 23, but there was no effect.
 
JamieVegas said:
Too much! I need to be at 2% like a healthy male. If too much T is free, the body will keep TT low.
Click to expand...
says who?
JamieVegas said:
I understand that low SHBG might be a sign of something else, but it is CAUSING my low TT either way.
Click to expand...
says who? apparently not any doctor you've seen...

JamieVegas said:
I do not have money or medical insurance and that is the whole point of this thread -- I need to do something about SHBG /immediately/, but can't afford tests.
Click to expand...
Whats the big rush? You said you've been affected by this for what 9 years now? Why is it criitcial that in the next month you fix it?
 
I personally think he doesn't want to listen to advice. It seems like he knows what's best for him without paying attention to dr's or experienced people. If he thinks lower free test and low dht will raise his libido, so be it. Can't argue with illogical people who deny all the facts.

Jamie, for your own good, just leave it be until you can get insurance and get FULL bloodwork done, as we've all suggested. You're fighting in the dark without it, and everyone here is telling you that you're doing the wrong thing.
 
Raising SHBG will NOT lower free T, DHT or E2. I am secondary hypogonadal. When SHBG goes up, so will my total testosterone. You'll eat your words when you see my next labs.

The problem is low TOTAL TESTOSTERONE. What you do not seem to understand is that low SHBG keeps total T low because the hypothalamus responds to the excess conversion.

Pubmed, my friends.

My libido is returning, as expected, by the way.
 
If that were the case, your libido would have risen dramatically on TRT, as your test obviously was elevated then. Still don't follow your logic.
 
I would have to consider that large portions of your libido loss are more mental and stress related outside of the low testosterone. I'm guessing that after a while you came to expect to not be able to get up or stay up, and the anxiety while trying affected you. But glad to hear its coming back
 
For Gutterpump, I got my earliest labs.

Here are my first labs, showing genuine clinical hypogonadism at the age of 20 (total testosterone below reference range.) For the sake of brevity, I took out the CBC and metabolic panel information that was in range. I included everything that was out of range, along with anything in the realm of thyroid hormones, adrenals, cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, etc. Keep in mind that these early tests were done by general practicioners that hardly knew what they were doing, so the tests are not in depth. SHBG is not included on these tests, but you can surmise that it is low because of the recurring "% FREE" testosterone that returns high.

- Please check out my thyroid lab values. They're all "in range" but I have no idea if those levels are adequate for optimum health.
- Notice that "% FREE T" is always high no matter what, due to SHBG that won't increase to accomodate the extra testosterone from TRT. It should be that 1-2% of total testosterone in is free testosterone in the male body. In my body, it is 3-4%, meaning that to have a normal free T level, I have to have half as low of a total T level!

To others, take a look at this 20 year old's labs and tell him that his sexual problems are "in his head." You can also see here that cholesterol is not exactly low.

** H = high
** L = low

Code: 
LAB #1: 11/13/1998, AGE: 17
----------------------------
calcium phosphate 4.7 [2.2-4.6 mg/dl] ** H
cholesterol 181  [<170 mg/dl] ** H
triglycerides 226 [40-199 mg/dl] ** H
vldl, calculated 45 [0-40 mg/dl] ** H
b-12 1276 [200-1100 pg/ml] **H

T4, total 7.2 [4.5-12.0 ug/dl]
TSH, 3rd generation 2.6 [0.7-6.4 mu/l]
T3, total 104 [60-181 mg/dl]

LAB #2: 2/22/02, AGE: 20
-------------------------
testosterone, total 185 [260-1000 ng/dl] **L
testosterone, % free 3.07 [1.0-2.7 %] **H
testosterone, free 56.8 [50-210 pg/ml]

T4, thyroxine, total 8.7 [4.5-12.5 mcg/dl ]
TSH 2.89 [0.50-4.40 mig/l]

LAB #3, 03/12/02, AGE: 20
---------------------------
[* Since my testosterone was so low at age 20, this lab was run to ensure that the above result was not lab error.  It was done by a different facility.]

HGH  <0.1  <10.0 ng/ml
testosterone, total 202 [260-1000 ng/dl] **L
testosterone, % free 2.73 [1.0-2.7%]
testosterone, free 55.1 [50-210 pg/ml]
prolactin 7 [2-18 mg/ml]

LAB #4, 4/15/2002, AGE 20:
--------------------------
FSH 2.97 [1.27.19.26 miu/ml]
LH 2.12 [1.24-8.26 miu/ml]
prolactin 5.96 [2.64-13.39 ng/ml]

* The second page of this lab is missing.  It included testosterone levels that were similar to the above two tests.  This lab was run by an actual endocrinologist that ultimately diagnosed me with: "Endocrine disorder, unknown."

========================================
!!THE BELOW LABS WERE ALL TAKEN WHILE ON TRT!!
========================================

LAB #5, 7/15/2002, AGE 20, 10G ANDROGEL DAILY:
-------------------------------------------------
testosterone, total 851 [260-1000 ng/dl]
testosterone, % free 3.42 [1.0-2.7 %] **H
testosterone, free 290.9 [50 -210] pg/ml **H

LAB #6, 2/27/2004, AGE 22, 100mg T-CYP EW:
---------------------------------------------
testosterone, total 1136 [300-950 ng/dl] **H
testosterone, % free 4.3 [2.0-4.8 %] ** H
testosterone, free 48.8 [9-30 ng/dl] **H

estradiol 61 [20-75 pg/ml]
free T4 0.91 [0.58-1.64 ng/dl]
prolactin 8.31 [2.64-13.39 ng/ml]
TSH 2.48 [0.34-4.82 miu/l]

total beta hcg <0.5 [0-2.67 miu/ml]

LAB #7, 10/28/05, AGE 24, ANDROGEL 5G DAILY:
----------------------------------------------
ALT 50 [30-65 u/l]
cholesterol 196 [0-200 mg/dl]
hdl cholesterol 35  [40-60 mg/dl] **L
ldl cholesterol 140 [0-130 mg/dl] **H
triglycerides 106 [15-150 mg/dl]

TSH 1.97 [0.34-4.82 miu/l]

testosterone, total 569 [250-110 ng/dl]
testosterone, % free 2.52  [1.10-2.80 %]
tesosterone free 143.4 [35-155 pg/ml]
* The above values were returned incorrectly, and re-tested/calculated by the lab and sent one month later.  No idea as to wether or not they are accurate numbers.  Lab error, ugh.

Test #4 shows that FSH and LH are not elevated and that my body is not "asking" for more testosterone. Clomid stimulation tests reveal that my testes can produce very high amounts of testosterone when LH is present. A pituitary MRI ruled out pituitary tumor/abnormalities.
 
Although its hard to speak for all of us, I think the consensus is that you are more likely to cause yourself new issues without having a doctor supervise, and without blood tests. Being on 50mcg of T3 for life isn't much of a solution either, and it will cause its own series of problems over time.

So its not like theres much more we can say. And factually, you still haven't killed the "in your head" as being a part of it. There may have been points in the past where it was 100% physical, but i'd bet money that a lot of the time a lot of it was mental and the expectation of failure.
 
EasyEJL said:
Although its hard to speak for all of us, I think the consensus is that you are more likely to cause yourself new issues without having a doctor supervise, and without blood tests. Being on 50mcg of T3 for life isn't much of a solution either, and it will cause its own series of problems over time.

So its not like theres much more we can say. And factually, you still haven't killed the "in your head" as being a part of it. There may have been points in the past where it was 100% physical, but i'd bet money that a lot of the time a lot of it was mental and the expectation of failure.
Click to expand...

1.) I wouldn't bother to try to masturbate or embarrass myself in front of a girl if I didn't expect that it would work. I'm always hopeful.

2.) The chances of an "in the head" problem that a 15 year old might have while unemotionally masturbating to porn are slim to none. Now, considering that the same guy has always had genuine clinical hypogonadism (which not many people on this board can even claim -- they're all just lower than they'd like) then you simply have to alleviate the obvious physical problem before you can suggest that it is being imagined. I went into the doctor at 20 to complain about my chronically low libido, asking him for a thyroid test, because I couldn't even fathom that a young male could have low testosterone. He slipped the T test in himself, and thank God he did!

I was looking for advice on dosing and the potential risks. In other words, how long is "too long" to experiment? What symptoms should I watch out for as signs that I'm overdosing? etc...

I know that a doctor should be involved, but the whole point of this thread was that I cannot afford any treatment, and if I don't solve this NOW (in a temporary fashion) I am going to lose one of the, potentially, most important relationships I've ever had.

That is why the thread title is prefixed with ", Unsupervised".
 
JamieVegas said:
1.) I wouldn't bother to try to masturbate or embarrass myself in front of a girl if I didn't expect that it would work. I'm always hopeful.

2.) The chances of an "in the head" problem that a 15 year old might have while unemotionally masturbating to porn are slim to none. Now, considering that the same guy has always had genuine clinical hypogonadism (which not many people on this board can even claim -- they're all just lower than they'd like) then you simply have to alleviate the obvious physical problem before you can suggest that it is being imagined. I went into the doctor at 20 to complain about my chronically low libido, asking him for a thyroid test, because I couldn't even fathom that a young male could have low testosterone. He slipped the T test in himself, and thank God he did!
Click to expand...

regardless of what you think, once you've had an ED issue, although you may be hopeful, you are also stressing about failure, and expecting failure. So even with capability, the "in your head" could have been (and still could be) a major part of the problem.

Performance Anxiety:

This is a fear of how you are going to perform. It is a common sexual problem and anxiety plays a huge role, causing you to feel fear before engaging in sexual intercourse. The fear of how you are going to perform and what your partner will think of you can lower your self esteem and cause ED to kick in.
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this is something that affects people with normal levels of hormones....
 
Gutterpump said:
How did you feel during the clomid stim test?

Easy's onto something very valid as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's valid for people with /normal/ hormones, and that feel self-conscious in front of a partner. For me, I lose my entire libido, and fail while it's just me and my hand.

I felt no different during the clomid stim test. No different whatsoever. It raised my total testosterone to 700ng/dl. See below.

Code: 
Last day of Clomid stim test:
9/14/2009, Age 27:

Testosterone, Total:    701  [241-827 ng/dl]
Estradiol:     44  [13-54 pg/ml]
Vitamin D, Total:    31 [20-100 ng/ml]  (I started taking D @ 5,000-10,000iu per day after this)
IGF-1:     148 [126-382 ng/ml]
Cortisol:     21.4 [4-22.0] mcg/dl
DHEA-S:    542 [110-510 mcg/dl] ** H
FSH:     5.9 [1.6-8.0 miu/ml]
LH:     4.9 [1.9-5.3 miu/ml]
Prolactin:     4.7 [2.0-18.0 ng/ml]

My doctor, Dr. Shipppen, does not believe in the accuracy Free Testosterone labs, nor does he think SHBG has any effect. He never tests those. He did't seem to care about DHT either. For him, total T is the final word. In fact, after prescribing clomid for one month, the ONLY test he wanted was total testosterone. I promptly left his ridiculous practice.

For the curious, he believes I suffer from the the following conditions:
- secondary hypogonadism (extreme early onset (teenage))
- adrenal hyperplasia
- growth hormone deficiency

The GHD interests me the most, considering that my teenage clinical hypogonadism is so extremely ****ing rare, and that I have MPB despite zero ****ing testosterone.

From Wikipedia:
Increased 5-alpha-reductase
Reduced sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) <<<<----
Reduced muscle mass and strength
Baldness in men
Reduced bone mass and osteoporosis
Reduced quality of life, particularly energy levels
Impaired concentration and loss of memory
Increased body fat, particularly around the waistline
Lipid abnormalities, particularly raised LDL cholesterol <<<<-----
Insulin resistance
Increased levels of fibrinogen and plasminogen activator inhibitor
Cardiac dysfunction, including a thickened intima media
 
JamieVegas said:
Yeah, that's valid for people with /normal/ hormones, and that feel self-conscious in front of a partner. For me, I lose my entire libido, and fail while it's just me and my hand.
Click to expand...

performance anxiety effects masturbation too, and doesn't have to be about being self conscious. An expectation and fear (whether subconscious or conscious) that you are going to fail is all it takes.

I'm not saying at all that this is the entire cause, but given what you've said it sounds like you've had some success at some points over the last 9 years sexually. So some things have worked somwhat at least, and its quite possible that the fear/anxiety may very well have caused the ED at times when chemically you were in a state that it would have worked.

I have bloodwork with total test at 800, free test at more than 2x top of scale, E2 at something like 65, SHBG non-measurable and had no issues.
 
EasyEJL said:
performance anxiety effects masturbation too, and doesn't have to be about being self conscious. An expectation and fear (whether subconscious or conscious) that you are going to fail is all it takes.

I'm not saying at all that this is the entire cause, but given what you've said it sounds like you've had some success at some points over the last 9 years sexually. So some things have worked somwhat at least, and its quite possible that the fear/anxiety may very well have caused the ED at times when chemically you were in a state that it would have worked.

I have bloodwork with total test at 800, free test at more than 2x top of scale, E2 at something like 65, SHBG non-measurable and had no issues.
Click to expand...

Maybe you have adequate growth hormone then. From you avatar, it looks like you do. If I posted a picture of myself, you'd see a 29 year old that looks like a skinny teenager.

Do you have MPB?
 
Nope, crappy growth hormone levels too, at least my IGF level was below bottom of scale last time it was checked. I'm on TRT for real deficiency, haven't had a total test come up higher than 280 since I was 35. No MPB which maybe makes sense if i've had historically low testosterone levels. Never had real ED issues at any point though, some times not being quite as hard or having a little issue maintaining hardness, but always managed to work through it.
 
JamieVegas said:
I have a full tube of Androgel right here, along with a vial of sublingual testosterone. Trust me -- one dose, and I couldn't get an erection with a vacuum pump.
Click to expand...

One dose would not help ANYONE. It would take 4 to 5 weeks of constant use to get the effects from Androgel.

My SHBG is low also (11) and it has no effect whatsoever on my sexual performance.
 
JamieVegas said:
My doctor, Dr. Shippen, does not believe in the accuracy Free Testosterone labs, nor does he think SHBG has any effect. He never tests those. He did't seem to care about DHT either. For him, total T is the final word. In fact, after prescribing clomid for one month, the ONLY test he wanted was total testosterone. I promptly left his ridiculous practice.

For the curious, he believes I suffer from the the following conditions:
- secondary hypogonadism (extreme early onset (teenage))
- adrenal hyperplasia
- growth hormone deficiency
Click to expand...

That's too bad. I totally agree with him. I've read a study posted in an endocrinologists journal that explained that the current testing method for free testosterone is flawed and warned against ANY endo using that test.
Just the fact that testosterone can be low while free test shows over range, should be the evidence that there is a problem. However, one of the things that will cause a false free test reading is............low SHBG. Yes, low SHBG causes a false reading for free testosterone.

As I stated earlier, low SHBG has no effect on sexual performance and using masterbation response as a test for sexual response is ridiculous. I have not been able to masterbate since the day I started getting regular sex in my twenties.

If you truly have a GH deficiency, then my guess is that raising GH would solve your problem.


Last, I am very confused at to what relationship YOU believe testosterone levels has with MPB. You appear to be making a stretch in logic that should not be made.


Here is some evidence from your test above. Notice that your free testosterone level expressed in pg/dl shows very low normal, but the percentage shows above normal? How is that possible? That's because they used a low SHBG number to factor that percentage. Free test should NEVER be trusted as a reliable guage.

HGH <0.1 <10.0 ng/ml
testosterone, total 202 [260-1000 ng/dl] **L
testosterone, % free 2.73 [1.0-2.7%]
testosterone, free 55.1 [50-210 pg/ml]
prolactin 7 [2-18 mg/ml]

Total testosterone and how you feel should be the only factors considered.
 
I'm about to start GH therapy myself soon. Will report back on any changes. I didn't catch that before, but yes GH can have a huge impact on libido, mood, many things.
 
I keep pondering starting GH therapy, but the cost is so prohibitive, plus its a pain in the various areas to inject daily.
 
EasyEJL said:
I keep pondering starting GH therapy, but the cost is so prohibitive, plus its a pain in the various areas to inject daily.
Click to expand...

Not really. GH can be injected subQ, just like insulin.
 
EasyEJL said:
I keep pondering starting GH therapy, but the cost is so prohibitive, plus its a pain in the various areas to inject daily.
Click to expand...

I used to think it would be real pricey too, but then I was enlightened by a friend. Starting CJC w/Dac + GHRP-2 real soon. Less than $80 a month, for a decent amount. That price included the MT-II which I've started. Getting started on the GH protocol after the holidays though (due to traveling). I don't want to carry too many peptides around with me even though they are completely legal to do so. It's too much to keep cold/safe while traveling.
 
Btw, with MT-II.... standing up = boners.... sitting down = boners... sleeping = constant boners. It's more potent than PT-141 from what I've read. Can't wait to put it to use over the holidays.
 
Gutterpump said:
Well it's a big hassle to pin multiple times per day though. GHRP's that is. I would stay away from real GH, since GHRP is healthier for anti-aging and pretty much makes using exogenous HGH obsolete.
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I didn't respond well to GHRP. GH is a naturally occuring hormone in the human body while GHRP is not, which leads me to wonder why you would think GHRP is healthier. Plus there is the benefit of only injecting once daily, EOD or 5 days a week with weekends off. Each therapy has been known to work.
 
DragonRider said:
I didn't respond well to GHRP. GH is a naturally occuring hormone in the human body while GHRP is not, which leads me to wonder why you would think GHRP is healthier. Plus there is the benefit of only injecting once daily, EOD or 5 days a week with weekends off. Each therapy has been known to work.
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GH as it is sold isn't the same as the naturally ocurring hormone, its a single protein chain which makes up about 70% of the naturally ocurring GH, but is missing a bit, which is part of what in theory makes the ghrps superior. They used to sell cadaver based GH (extracted from pituitary) which was complete but they stopped selling it after they realized it caused (at least occasionally) Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease which is somewhat similar to mad cow disease

And from what i've understood the ghrps are all analogs of naturally occuring ghrps that are part of the whole GH feedback cycle.
 
DragonRider said:
I didn't respond well to GHRP. GH is a naturally occuring hormone in the human body while GHRP is not, which leads me to wonder why you would think GHRP is healthier. Plus there is the benefit of only injecting once daily, EOD or 5 days a week with weekends off. Each therapy has been known to work.
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Did you use GHRP with CJC? CJC brings up your baseline, and then GHRP only helps with the GH spikes, they are needed together for a good therapy.

GH, HCG, HMG, all mimick hormones released by the pituitary. There is concern that using these over time will cause pituitary atrophy.

GHRP, etc, stimulate the release of GH from the pituitary. It is not a hormone, it is only a simple protein and is very benign.
 
Gutterpump said:
Did you use GHRP with CJC? CJC brings up your baseline, and then GHRP only helps with the GH spikes, they are needed together for a good therapy.

GH, HCG, HMG, all mimick hormones released by the pituitary. There is concern that using these over time will cause pituitary atrophy.

GHRP, etc, stimulate the release of GH from the pituitary. It is not a hormone, it is only a simple protein and is very benign.
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No. Just GHRP 6 alone. I prefer to try things alone at first to see if there is any effect on their own before combining it with something else to observe the synergistic effects.
GHRP made me dizzy, but I had none of the GH effects from it and no increase in appetite. GH had very obvious effects.
 
DragonRider said:
Last, I am very confused at to what relationship YOU believe testosterone levels has with MPB. You appear to be making a stretch in logic that should not be made.


Here is some evidence from your test above. Notice that your free testosterone level expressed in pg/dl shows very low normal, but the percentage shows above normal? How is that possible? That's because they used a low SHBG number to factor that percentage. Free test should NEVER be trusted as a reliable guage.

HGH <0.1 <10.0 ng/ml
testosterone, total 202 [260-1000 ng/dl] **L
testosterone, % free 2.73 [1.0-2.7%]
testosterone, free 55.1 [50-210 pg/ml]
prolactin 7 [2-18 mg/ml]

Total testosterone and how you feel should be the only factors considered.
Click to expand...

They used a low SHBG number because my SHBG is indeed low. Where is the potential inaccuracy? The percentage of T that is FT is indeed high, even though TT is low.

What is the MPB fallacy? I'm saying that since I have had extremely low testosterone in my youth, I shouldn't have experienced early onset MBP to the degree that I did.

It's nice to hear all of these anecdotal reports from barrel-chested, jacked up guys who have relatively minor complaints and yet still mess around with their hormones. The fact is that there are PLENTY of men on the boards who have had zero success in raising libido with TRT, even when bringing testosterone in range. Further, there are even more men, ESPECIALLY young men, with low SHBG and low testosterone that have NEVER had regular libidos. So there's the counter-anecdote for you.

You all either caused your own problems or had them occur late in life. Your examples are meaningless. You're normal ****ing people. Your bodies work like Swiss watches to keep you functioning at a decent level, no matter how much you tinker with them. Ours don't. Our bodies do not function properly. We're not just "out of energy" or "not as horny as [we] used to be." We're genuinely dysfunctional.

So, it doesn't matter if your penis works when everything on your labs are out of range and jacked up to your fancy, or while you're drunk, or while you're mainlining estrogen or whatever it is that you people do. (sarcasm)

The point of my post is that mine does not work out of the box, and that as a cut-and-dry case of teenaged clinical (a rare find around here) hypogonadism, I need a more serious look at my hormones than "d00d put T in ur butt and lower E and u will have so much wood ur faec will fall off".
 
JamieVegas said:
What is the MPB fallacy? I'm saying that since I have had extremely low testosterone in my youth, I shouldn't have experienced early onset MBP to the degree that I did.
Click to expand...

The falacy is that testoserone levels have absolutely nothing to do with MPB.
 
JamieVegas said:
They used a low SHBG number because my SHBG is indeed low. Where is the potential inaccuracy? The percentage of T that is FT is indeed high, even though TT is low.
Click to expand...
You are still missing this. Both of these number represent the same thing, but this:
testosterone, free 55.1 [50-210 pg/ml] (low normal)
Does not support this:
testosterone, % free 2.73 [1.0-2.7%] (above normal)

They both represent free testosterone. It is not possible.
 
JamieVegas said:
You all either caused your own problems or had them occur late in life. Your examples are meaningless. You're normal ****ing people. Your bodies work like Swiss watches to keep you functioning at a decent level, no matter how much you tinker with them.
Click to expand...

JamieVegas said:
Ours don't. Our bodies do not function properly. We're not just "out of energy" or "not as horny as [we] used to be." We're genuinely dysfunctional.
Click to expand...

I understand you are frustrated, but no one who is on TRT has a body that works like a swiss watch. We are genuinely dysfunctional.

I agree with your assesment that someone your age should not need TRT to function normally, but SHBG is not your problem. Low SHBG can be a genetic predisposition or it is a symptom of another problem.



.
 
DragonRider said:
You are still missing this. Both of these number represent the same thing, but this:
testosterone, free 55.1 [50-210 pg/ml] (low normal)
Does not support this:
testosterone, % free 2.73 [1.0-2.7%] (above normal)

They both represent free testosterone. It is not possible.
Click to expand...

It is possible and exactly correct:

55.1 pg/ml = 5.51 ng/dl (conversion is a factor of 10)

202 ng/dl * 0.0273 = 5.5146 ng/dl = 55.146 pg/ml

(total) * (percent free) = (total free)

So, FREE T is low within the range, but PERCENTAGE of free testosterone is high within in the range. If you have a low TOTAL T, then the only way to have low normal FREE T is to have a very HIGH **PERCENTAGE** of the low TOTAL T as FREE T. The only way to have a high PERCENTAGE of FREE T is to have LOW SHBG.

So, there's the problem. If I add testosterone, then free T will get too high too fast, because 3-4% of my total is always free. A healthy SHBG expression changes with hormone fluctuations. My SHBG expression won't change. This indicates that the liver is having difficulty producing SHBG. If the liver can't express enough SHBG to properly bind approx. 98% of testosterone (with albumin included) then the body will always want to keep total testosterone low. Studies show that not only do cells have have receptors for SHBG, but SHBG is actually required to get testosterone into certain tissue. Not to mention, it's the primary transport protein for testosterone. It's not there to "inactivate" testosterone, it's there to create a reservoir of testosterone and to transport testosterone evenly throughout the body so the effect of testosterone is not localized to the point of production. Otherwise, a great portion would "activate" (metabolize, aromatize, etc.) too early. Without adequate SHBG, you do not have an adequate reservoir, adequate transportation of testosterone, or the ability to buffer an increased amount of total testosterone.


Saying SHBG doesn't matter is like saying esters don't matter. You don't inject pure T, right? You inject something like T-Cypionate, where T is ***pre-bound***, so that the ester releases the T slowly over time. A body without adequate SHBG is like a bottle of T-Cyp where there's no "Cyp"!

In the same way, natural T from the body NEEDS TO BE BOUND TO CONTROL ITS METABOLISM, and SHBG and albumin are what do it.

If bodies like EasyEJL and monsterbox are "dysfunctional", then show me what functional looks like. Most of the people here are way above average and not even satisfied with it. If you have huge ****ing muscles and your penis works, then what the hell else do you want from your endocrine system?
 
Small update:

My ex-girlfriend ordered me the wrong verion of Cytomel. So, for about a month, I've been taking T4.

I will get my hands on T3 either tomorrow or Sunday.
 
JamieVegas said:
Small update:

My ex-girlfriend ordered me the wrong verion of Cytomel. So, for about a month, I've been taking T4.

I will get my hands on T3 either tomorrow or Sunday.
Click to expand...

Huh? Didn't you have the bottle in hand, or were you just taking her word for it?
And T4 isn't another version of Cytomel, it is Thyroxine (brand name: Synthroid).
 
how are you gonna play with your hormones and not know what youre taking???
 
Gator 87 said:
Huh? Didn't you have the bottle in hand, or were you just taking her word for it?
And T4 isn't another version of Cytomel, it is Thyroxine (brand name: Synthroid).
Click to expand...

It's a generic substitute, called Thyronorm. I took her word for it that she had procured the right medicine.

I don't want to get accused of spamming, so I won't link to places that sell it, but just Google "Cytomel T4". It seems there is a T4 version of Cytomel called, literally "Cytomel T4" as well as a T3/T4 mix that goes by the same name.

I think she ordered Cytomel and they substituted a generic T4 rather than a generic T3.
 
JamieVegas said:
Small update:

My ex-girlfriend ordered me the wrong verion of Cytomel. So, for about a month, I've been taking T4.

I will get my hands on T3 either tomorrow or Sunday.
Click to expand...

T4 will increase SHBG just as good as t-3.
I think you are going about this the wrong way by trying to manipulate the shbg.

First rule out why shbg is high
1. Genetics
2. low fiber in diet
3. Low thyroid clincal
4. Obesse
5. Insulin resistance
6. smoking or other environmental influence
7. high protein low carb diet?
8. High carb diet?
9. elevated cortisol
10. elevated DHEA or igf-1
 
The Matrix said:
T4 will increase SHBG just as good as t-3.
I think you are going about this the wrong way by trying to manipulate the shbg.

First rule out why shbg is high
1. Genetics
2. low fiber in diet
3. Low thyroid clincal
4. Obesse
5. Insulin resistance
6. smoking or other environmental influence
7. high protein low carb diet?
8. High carb diet?
9. elevated cortisol
10. elevated DHEA or igf-1
Click to expand...


Thanks, Matrix.

We can probably rule out 3, 4, 6, 8 and 10. I have high DHEA and low IGF-1. I do not smoke or drink, and I'm not obese. I don't have clinical low thyroid.

I have eaten in different styles throughout the 9 years that I've had this problem.

I still wonder what I could even do about the genetically low SHBG/problem. I think I'd have to resort to a brute force tactic, like T3 for example. There'd really be no other way to increase it.

I'm not sure what my target fiber should be.
 
JamieVegas said:
Thanks, Matrix.

We can probably rule out 3, 4, 6, 8 and 10. I have high DHEA and low IGF-1. I do not smoke or drink, and I'm not obese. I don't have clinical low thyroid.

I have eaten in different styles throughout the 9 years that I've had this problem.

I still wonder what I could even do about the genetically low SHBG/problem. I think I'd have to resort to a brute force tactic, like T3 for example. There'd really be no other way to increase it.

I'm not sure what my target fiber should be.
Click to expand...

High dhea usually indicated potential anxiety disorders or some kind of insulin resistance as it would be the first stage and may be not progress to the next. Low igf- may not = low gh out put. increase fiber to 40 -50 grams a day this has been shown to raise shbg in women with PCOS.

where is your ferritin, b-12, folate, cbc, cmp, lipid panels and other metabolic markers?
 
The Matrix said:
High dhea usually indicated potential anxiety disorders or some kind of insulin resistance as it would be the first stage and may be not progress to the next. Low igf- may not = low gh out put. increase fiber to 40 -50 grams a day this has been shown to raise shbg in women with PCOS.

where is your ferritin, b-12, folate, cbc, cmp, lipid panels and other metabolic markers?
Click to expand...


calcium phosphate 4.7 [2.2-4.6 mg/dl] ** H
cholesterol 181 [<170 mg/dl] ** H
triglycerides 226 [40-199 mg/dl] ** H
vldl, calculated 45 [0-40 mg/dl] ** H
b-12 1276 [200-1100 pg/ml] **H

Everything else is in range.
 
JamieVegas said:
calcium phosphate 4.7 [2.2-4.6 mg/dl] ** H
cholesterol 181 [<170 mg/dl] ** H
triglycerides 226 [40-199 mg/dl] ** H
vldl, calculated 45 [0-40 mg/dl] ** H
b-12 1276 [200-1100 pg/ml] **H

Everything else is in range.
Click to expand...

You fall into the category for potential insulin resistance or syndrome X which I suspect from low shbg.
Cholesterol at 181 is not high. I actually like to see it at 180-200

I would get a nutra eval done to look at cell membrane permeability the answer could rely.

Your dr should have picked this up right away!!
Next step would be insulin glucose tolerance test 3 hours measureing both glucose and insulin at 0 30 60 90 120 3 hours you should defintely get your answer
 
The Matrix said:
You fall into the category for potential insulin resistance or syndrome X which I suspect from low shbg.
Cholesterol at 181 is not high. I actually like to see it at 180-200

I would get a nutra eval done to look at cell membrane permeability the answer could rely.

Your dr should have picked this up right away!!
Next step would be insulin glucose tolerance test 3 hours measureing both glucose and insulin at 0 30 60 90 120 3 hours you should defintely get your answer
Click to expand...

I'll get those labs done when I can afford it.

Is there any danger in taking 50mcg of T3 for approximately 1 month, if you already have healthy thyroid levels?
 
In a normal individual not very high risk, but as your endocrine system already has issues its impossible to guess what the risk level is
 
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