77 year old on epistane?

orastan-a is the original compound by gaspari.

it's popular clones are furaguno, furazadrol, winabol, winadrol.

it is the de methylated version of furazabol. the orig. steroid from japan.
 
Sounds good, and don't worry, pops won't be doin epi.

I am amazed by this DUTCHMAN guy though, and trying to imagine if I were 70ish. You think the desire to be huge will be gone by then? Search for some of his posts--the amount of weight he throws around is insane.

the dutchman is an amazing guy. i first saw one of his posts about 4 years ago, i read the weight he was throwing and thought his age was just a typo. if you want an honest opinion on something dutch is the man.
 
i'm all for 'old dudes'...getting a little help ......i don't see any wrong with some 'test and a little hgh'.......................
 
i would forget about OTC's for most people......i have no faith in them...its funny to me that all the companys that sell prohormones use names that sound like real roids....
e.g....Hardcore Test....winabol.....there's a ton of them.....its BS......
.............also old guy's could do a little test...some Proviron....hcg....
.....pc with some novadex..hcg...proviron....igf if ya got it......

....young guys talkin' about what 'old guy's feel' is a joke......they can't imagine what old dudes go thru.....i want to live more than ever....

in the next 20 years anti-aging is going to completly change.....the future looks good for a new approach ....

thanks .....jakellpet......peace out
 
Hate to upset the apple cart or interfere with the funeral procession some of you are holding for us Old Farts. I am about to turn 68 and am on my 6th Epi cycle. I find it extremely Old Fart friendly and use 40 mgs which I stack with my Formastane (8 squirts) and 200 mgs of DHEA. The first two I do on a pulse cycle usually for 3 or 4 days a week and the DHEA daily year roundf at 200mgs. At 77 I would agree with either trying the Dermacrine or Sustain Alkpha which both work well. Activate Extreme and Powerful used to work for me as well. Now I am just so happy with the Epi/Form combo that I don't ever want anything else. And yes my Doc offered both TRT and HGH which I turned down. I am a fanatic about trying to keep my Estro down hence protecting the crown jewels from prostate cancer. With this combo I get it all. Today, I did my reps on deads at 365. Monday I will try to do all 14 plates on the Hammer Strength Seated Triceps Pressdowns ie 630 lbs for 4 or 5 reps. Being old does not mean being dead. We can't play with the same things you youngsters do, nor can we lift the same weights. But,.........we can still grow and get stronger every year. I have for the last 9 years and hope to do so for another decade at least.
 
Hate to upset the apple cart or interfere with the funeral procession some of you are holding for us Old Farts. I am about to turn 68 and am on my 6th Epi cycle. I find it extremely Old Fart friendly and use 40 mgs which I stack with my Formastane (8 squirts) and 200 mgs of DHEA. The first two I do on a pulse cycle usually for 3 or 4 days a week and the DHEA daily year roundf at 200mgs. At 77 I would agree with either trying the Dermacrine or Sustain Alkpha which both work well. Activate Extreme and Powerful used to work for me as well. Now I am just so happy with the Epi/Form combo that I don't ever want anything else. And yes my Doc offered both TRT and HGH which I turned down. I am a fanatic about trying to keep my Estro down hence protecting the crown jewels from prostate cancer. With this combo I get it all. Today, I did my reps on deads at 365. Monday I will try to do all 14 plates on the Hammer Strength Seated Triceps Pressdowns ie 630 lbs for 4 or 5 reps. Being old does not mean being dead. We can't play with the same things you youngsters do, nor can we lift the same weights. But,.........we can still grow and get stronger every year. I have for the last 9 years and hope to do so for another decade at least.

give it hell, dutch. much respect.
 
i have to admit my ignorance ..... what is epistane????? also formastane?????

is this stuff 'otc'........plz...Dutchman....i'm 59 yrs old and still do some tren e...and test e....

i never go to doctors..... only read.....
 
All I gotta say is that all of us who are young or fairlly young now (i'm 38) love to lift and train, right? Well, ask yourself this. Will I have the desire and motivation to still train as hard as hell 20 or 30 years from now? That may make some of you being in your late 40's or early 60's right? I know that 20 years from now I will everything in my power to keep training like an animal. I'd rather break my freakiin' hip under a squat rack vs. falling down a flight of stairs. As far as hormones are concerned, just take bloodwork and keep track of your vital signs on a regular basis cause this age group is still more susceptable to experiencing adverse reactions to exogenous hormones vs. much younger age group. Also, do the PCT. I know it sucks cause it doesn't make you feel like your 20 years old again. But, if you want to be able to do another anabolic cycle without destroying your body in the process, do the PCT and save another year on your life.
 
Dutch, how has the Epi/Formestane affected your libido on the pulse and how long is your cycle? I seemed to go from one day i was raring to go and the next I could not give a damn about the opposite sex. So I avoided the pulse. I take 100mg of DHEA year round like yourself.
 
I've never done a prohormone. Are you sayiing that people don't feel good while doing PCT?

A prohormone will cause your HPTA to shutdown. Some do it faster and harder than others. PCT can suck as far as not feeling like you did when you're on a PH. As you get older your HPTA does not recovery quickly, or at a diminished production of your body's natural hormone production. If you do it right, it's not that bad.
 
I've never done a prohormone. Are you sayiing that people don't feel good while doing PCT?

Well that is debateable. Some hormones are harsh and honestly by the time you are through with your cycle, you probably can't wait to be off cycle. But most of the time people don't prepare enough for PCT, for their hormones to go out of balance for a bit, which can cause muscle loss (if not training/eating properly), and depression, as one's test levels can be very low... If one uses a SERM there are potential libido/emotional issues depending on the SERM. there is more to it, but no, people typically don't look forward to PCT.
 
No, you just don't as "wired" when your off a prohormone cycle. Most guys here will agree with me that if your on a really good prohormone cycle, you'll feel like a freakin' god. The feeling isn't a stimulatory buzz like drinking a couple of cups of strong coffee but, more like a sense of just overwhelming confidence and inner fire that you can do this or you can do that...period. Then, when you're off cycle and start taking certain agents to raise your test levels up and minimize estrogen, that overwhelming sense of being no longer exist cause your body is not function on an "above average" level. So, until you get your test levels back to normal as well as the rest of your hormones, you kinda feel a little lethargic and run down as well.
 
Okay. This confirms what I thought. You might feel bad after a cycle, but the pct products don't actually make you feel any worse.
 
Okay. This confirms what I thought. You might feel bad after a cycle, but the pct products don't actually make you feel any worse.

No, they should help you feel better.

The exception to this rule is SERMS. Tamoxifen (nolvadex) can affect the libido, and Clomiphine (clomid) can give people estrogenic emotional side effects.

Test boosters and Anti-E's should make one feel better quicker, as they should help return the natural balance of hormones.
 
Having read this post got me thinking, I looked through a my physicians handbook of meds(like a PDR) and looked up methyltestosterone(which IMHO is much worse toxicity wise than epi) and it said the contradiction for geriatric use would be prostatic hypertrophy or prostatic carcinoma,and that was it! No other contraindications listed.
 
Mactech, my natural test is very low to begin with, but the DHEA and ZMA are very helpful. That's why I like doing the Form to hold down my Estro asnd spike my Test some more. That's also why I use all natural, bio-identical Progesterone when I am not on Form so that it performs a similar Estro management function. Still when I go on my 10 week Epi/Form pulses, I usually find Mr Happy standing around when I wake up. I feel decades younger. Not only does it not disappear, I have consistently found that my Epi/Form pulse cycle tends to exert the same effects both in and out of the gym for a good 2 weeks after ending it. Maybe it's related to my age but I am very susceptible to the effects. I don't however need this cycle to feel like an animal. For me I feel cranked and aggressive simply whenever I can maintain a few healthy weeks of 4 workouts per.
 
Thanks Dutch. I think I may have dosed the Epi too low. I felt great for 3 weeks, then lethargy set in. Never had issues with morning wood, just the lack of desire at times during the end of the cycle. I am however, thinking it's more psychological. The boys were aching at one point for ~ two weeks, so, I don't know.

I take 100mg DHEA and used to take more. It works wonders for me as I can feel its effects. I was using a SERM during PCT and no AI. Formestane is something I should try for E management.
 
Much respect Dutch, I hope to be as much of a bad ass when I'm older.

I always feel like total **** on PCT. You are undergoing tremendous hormonal volatility and it sucks. Many of the hormones that you have to deal with are not the "good" ones, ie: estrogen, cortisol, etc. PCT sucks and I feel crappy every time I've done PCT. I dread it now. I've done ~5 PCTs now and done them all sorts of ways.

I would not be taking methyl steroids when I'm older though personally. I guess epi is pretty mild in that respect but I'd much prefer 500mg of test. I feel like a king on that stuff and at 250-500mg a week the sides are very low if arimidex is included.
 
You will never be able to speak for the man until you turn 77. With all the crap in the food, water and environment in general, who's to say about hormonal balance. THE CREATOR gave you male hormones and this environment takes it away. If he wants, have your father blood tested and hormones replaced under a doctor's care. I know they are suspect, but there are some good ones out there
 
At the very least im gonna be on HGH when im that old, get on some trt as well, maybe 1 or 2 test cycles a year lmao....
 
definitely not bro!, im 45 and i wish i still had my pops around to do stuff with and that compound is hard enuff on the endocrine system of a younger guy, Ive cycled havoc, tren and halo types in the past, with good results tho, but its awful risky at that age i would think. like the others said HGH mabe
good luck-Mountainman
 
Hi everyone, here's an update.

Got Pops a bunch of supps as suggested by a nutritionist back in Sept. included nat. test boosters but NOT epi. He did great, strength was up, was gaining mass and he looked great.

Then i had to leave for 6 weeks. I came back mid Nov. to see he had not taken any of his supps. and quit going to the gym. But he lied and said he did. He looked like sh*t compared to when I left.

We're back to to daily gym visits, but I've quit monitoring his supps. I kind of feel like the parent now. He's a great man, I'll just let him do things his way, with a little prodding and guidance. Imagine what could have happened if I let him run PH's?

Things are back to how they were when I originally posted this, except I put on 15-20 lbs. of muscle and pops is envious (proud)... Perfect...
 
I would not advise him to take epistane.

Its methyl, it will put stress on his liver. Its also going to shut him down, at at 77, if your not on TRT, your more than likely going to have low testosterone levels.

The anti-E aspects of epistane are going to be really hard on the joints. Even for someone not old.

Tell him to get on TRT. Go get a blood test and get on testosterone cream. This would help him tremendously in all aspects of life.

Monster is right. Take him to the Doc, Tell the Dr he can't get wood and needs to, and they will hook him up with some Andro Gel. Then you can use it too and you and Gramps will both be gettin SWOLE together !!!
 
Hi everyone, here's an update.

Got Pops a bunch of supps as suggested by a nutritionist back in Sept. included nat. test boosters but NOT epi. He did great, strength was up, was gaining mass and he looked great.

Then i had to leave for 6 weeks. I came back mid Nov. to see he had not taken any of his supps. and quit going to the gym. But he lied and said he did. He looked like sh*t compared to when I left.

We're back to to daily gym visits, but I've quit monitoring his supps. I kind of feel like the parent now. He's a great man, I'll just let him do things his way, with a little prodding and guidance. Imagine what could have happened if I let him run PH's?

QUOTE]


The problem with receiving even top quality ideas instantaneously and cheaply is that the receiver treats the info cheaply and half-heartedly. That's true of all ages, but more true with most older guys who can't get past set patterns in their life and will typically return to old habits barring outright fear for their lives, and sometimes even that's not enough motive.

Epi would have been dangerous for your father.

On the other hand there are a ton of great ideas that would help promote strength and muscle gain with little to no risk. Diet is huge. But eating "clean" to promote test and stay healthy at the same time varies with the individual. Many people still think that eating clean means eating lean, as in low-fat, but that lowers TOTAL test a lot. Simply eating a lot of fats is not the answer either as some will actually lower test too. He would need to eat the right fats for what he needs to accomplish (fats to increase TOTAL TEST at his age, backed up by supplements to free that extra test), and that takes ongoing effort and taking part in the process.
 
I know your trying to help your old man get in the best shape of his life through sport supplementation but, you got to realize he's a 77 year old man. If he continues to use prohormones at his age, he'll have a much higher risk of developing some adverse reactions later down the road. His liver is not as healthy as your liver. Even if he never drank an ounce of liquer in his life or was never exposed to foreign blood products or unsanitary conditions, he's still running the risk of experiencing liver failure or even complete shutdown even with a mild methyl like epi. Giving him tesosterone supplements only puts a "band-aid" on the problem because once he cycles off of it, he'll have to take something else to bring his levels back up. HCG is good but, requires 3 shots a week and I don't know if he's willing to do that.

Do some research on AI's because it addresses the counter-balance of estrogen/testosterone on a level that doesn't really do any real suppression of tesosterone. 6 bromo is a really good over-the-counter supplement that many people have used with great success not just for PCT but, for everyday use and sufferred no serious side effects that could note a potentially underlying life-threatening problem.
 
Most of the men in my family have died young. My father was 46. At 77, I would just let him putt around the golf course and enjoy him as long as you can.
 
Have him get on small doses of real Testosterone. 1-2 paks of Androgel a day should do the job. Age doesn't mean ****. There's a 70 year old guy at my gym that would put most if not all you guys to shame. Hormones r the only thing that's gonna help him regenerate, supplements r a freaken waste of money. If i can't live big, lean, muscular n pumped, why live at all. I'm taking Test, Gh, whatever i can get the Doc to prescribe till I'm 105, if i make it that long.

Remember, men used to live to be 900 years old before the flood of Noah. They had high testosterone at 850 years old, that's why they had so many kids. Earth was different back then, clean environment, and different atmospheric pressure resulted in much larger muscular men and animals.
 
Dude, that is a bunch of bunk. Your basing your facts of men living till 900 years old on the old testament on the bible? So, you believe that the flood caused the destruction of the earth which, in tale, led the planet to start to bleed radiation increasing the mortality rate of human beings. Also, you must have gotten the 900 year old thing because fo the following patriarchs in the old testament:

Adam: 930 (genesis 5:5)
Seth : 912 (genesis 5:8)
Methuselah : 969 (genesis 5:27)
Noah: 950 (genesis 9:29)

Your taking the Old ass scripture literal and in today's modern world, it does not make sense to apply hormone usage to biblical figures. Many experts claim that the 900 years of life were not LITERAL years. People back then counted each month as a year. Experts say you have to take the biblical age and divide by 12. But, that's wrong too cause if you did that then Cainan would have had a child at age 5. Hmmm....maybe they were taking growth hormone and test back then to make this possible. The only thing that could hold any water to backing your argument up is the fact that they were the very first people on earth and were considered part of God's chosen. So, faith has something to do with it. Only God could have kept them alive that long-not purer nuts, berries, meats, and ****. There is no scientific evidence to back any of this stuff up nor is there scientific evidence to suggest that the great flood had caused the slow decay of the earth releasing dangerous toxins into the planet and slowly destroying our lifespan from one century to another.
 
Dude, that is a bunch of bunk. Your basing your facts of men living till 900 years old on the old testament on the bible? So, you believe that the flood caused the destruction of the earth which, in tale, led the planet to start to bleed radiation increasing the mortality rate of human beings. Also, you must have gotten the 900 year old thing because fo the following patriarchs in the old testament:

Adam: 930 (genesis 5:5)
Seth : 912 (genesis 5:8)
Methuselah : 969 (genesis 5:27)
Noah: 950 (genesis 9:29)

Your taking the Old ass scripture literal and in today's modern world, it does not make sense to apply hormone usage to biblical figures. Many experts claim that the 900 years of life were not LITERAL years. People back then counted each month as a year. Experts say you have to take the biblical age and divide by 12. But, that's wrong too cause if you did that then Cainan would have had a child at age 5. Hmmm....maybe they were taking growth hormone and test back then to make this possible. The only thing that could hold any water to backing your argument up is the fact that they were the very first people on earth and were considered part of God's chosen. So, faith has something to do with it. Only God could have kept them alive that long-not purer nuts, berries, meats, and ****. There is no scientific evidence to back any of this stuff up nor is there scientific evidence to suggest that the great flood had caused the slow decay of the earth releasing dangerous toxins into the planet and slowly destroying our lifespan from one century to another.

Just like in the days of Noah they were marrying, and being given into marriage until the flood came and took them all away. So shall it be when the Son of God returns to Earth: Gospels.

Keep mocking God u fool. I can utterly GUARANTEE U THIS FACT. U will see Jesus Christ one day, and u will bow whether u like it or not, FOOL. People like u did the exact same thing in Noah's day, they laughed and mocked at Noah for building an enormous ARK in the middle of dry land, they mocked him for 120 years, until the flood came and wiped them all out.

God is giving ur pathetic mortal little soul time to repent BEFORE THE RETURN OF Christ or before u die. U r but a vapor, u appear for a while, n then ur gone. Ur minuscule existence will end one day, and then u will die.

There is massive evidence of a Great flood, just like there is massive evidence of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Dinosaurs. Noah's Ark has numerous witnesses who have lived in the Mountains and seen it over the years, it's there, no doubt about it. It doesn't take any of this evidence for me to believe, but it's there anyway. And yes mr. Fool, people did live to be 900 years old, literally. The Earth was much different back then, and atmospheric pressure was not the same, things grew much larger and lived longer.

I hope your abysmal ignorance doesn't keep blocking u from the Truth of Scripture, but if u keep following the dead path ur on now, ur future is destined for the wrath of God, and His punishment upon all those who have rejected Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.
 
Just like in the days of Noah they were marrying, and being given into marriage until the flood came and took them all away. So shall it be when the Son of God returns to Earth: Gospels.

Keep mocking God u fool. I can utterly GUARANTEE U THIS FACT. U will see Jesus Christ one day, and u will bow whether u like it or not, FOOL. People like u did the exact same thing in Noah's day, they laughed and mocked at Noah for building an enormous ARK in the middle of dry land, they mocked him for 120 years, until the flood came and wiped them all out.

God is giving ur pathetic mortal little soul time to repent BEFORE THE RETURN OF Christ or before u die. U r but a vapor, u appear for a while, n then ur gone. Ur minuscule existence will end one day, and then u will die.

There is massive evidence of a Great flood, just like there is massive evidence of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Dinosaurs. Noah's Ark has numerous witnesses who have lived in the Mountains and seen it over the years, it's there, no doubt about it. It doesn't take any of this evidence for me to believe, but it's there anyway. And yes mr. Fool, people did live to be 900 years old, literally. The Earth was much different back then, and atmospheric pressure was not the same, things grew much larger and lived longer.

I hope your abysmal ignorance doesn't keep blocking u from the Truth of Scripture, but if u keep following the dead path ur on now, ur future is destined for the wrath of God, and His punishment upon all those who have rejected Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

go away in 60 This rant is a hijack.

:hijacked:
 
Oh God, some of you have completely missed my point. The argument of whether or not a 77 year old should use steroids and other hormones to improve his quality of life should be based on science-MODERN MEDICAL SCIENCE. Who do you think developed testosterone-a scientist in the 1940's. You guys can't debate against me cause there are plenty of other scientists and researchers who have questions with regard to whether or not the patriarchs of the old testaments did truly live to be 900 years old or whether the great flood did cause the slow decrepitation of the earth. I could care less. All I truly know NOW is that humans live to be at a max age of 120 years old and that NOW we are all more susceptable to more diseases than ever before. Who can say that serious diseases that exist today didn't exist millions of years ago. The diseases we know now were documented in old scripture as other things such as "the wrath of God". Look, I don't doubt that there were miracles performed at that time such as the parting of the red sea by Moses or Jesus turning water into wine. But, we're talking about facts and medical science of today. And I know from research done in many journals that certain hormones can be more detrimental to our bodies as we get older. Sure, I'm all for longevity and using medicine to prolong life whether it be cardiac meds to, well, hormone replacement. Hell, I just finished doing a cycle of epistane and tren for 6 weeks pulsed and gained about 10 lbs and plan to do another cycle in 3 weeks using m-1,4 add and tren (which I loved every anabolic minute of it!). But, you can't ignore the fact that you put your body at high risk when you use test and hgh especially if you have an underlying medical condition you don't even know about. I've been in the medical field for 11 years now and I've seen many older adults in their 60's and 70's come into the E.R and not realize they've had this or that condition for quite sometime now and had just started developing symptoms of the disease process which was later determined that they've had it for years-just never been treated for it.

I'm not insulting God or being a heretic with regard to his scriptures. It's just silly to apply biblical fact to modern science cause they are two separate things. And why are we talking about evolution of man in a website that's based on drugs, bodybuilding, and supplementation, and yes, exercise science. I'm sure we could go to another website that has the word(s) God, bible, faith, Noah, etc. if you want to debate the creation of man/the 900 year old theory. Me, I'm going to stick to learning how to get big, strong, and lean and listen to people who can steer me in that direction and not preach to me like I'm in Sunday mass.
 
Oh God, some of you have completely missed my point. The argument of whether or not a 77 year old should use steroids and other hormones to improve his quality of life should be based on science-MODERN MEDICAL SCIENCE. Who do you think developed testosterone-a scientist in the 1940's. You guys can't debate against me cause there are plenty of other scientists and researchers who have questions with regard to whether or not the patriarchs of the old testaments did truly live to be 900 years old or whether the great flood did cause the slow decrepitation of the earth. I could care less. All I truly know NOW is that humans live to be at a max age of 120 years old and that NOW we are all more susceptable to more diseases than ever before. Who can say that serious diseases that exist today didn't exist millions of years ago. The diseases we know now were documented in old scripture as other things such as "the wrath of God". Look, I don't doubt that there were miracles performed at that time such as the parting of the red sea by Moses or Jesus turning water into wine. But, we're talking about facts and medical science of today. And I know from research done in many journals that certain hormones can be more detrimental to our bodies as we get older. Sure, I'm all for longevity and using medicine to prolong life whether it be cardiac meds to, well, hormone replacement. Hell, I just finished doing a cycle of epistane and tren for 6 weeks pulsed and gained about 10 lbs and plan to do another cycle in 3 weeks using m-1,4 add and tren (which I loved every anabolic minute of it!). But, you can't ignore the fact that you put your body at high risk when you use test and hgh especially if you have an underlying medical condition you don't even know about. I've been in the medical field for 11 years now and I've seen many older adults in their 60's and 70's come into the E.R and not realize they've had this or that condition for quite sometime now and had just started developing symptoms of the disease process which was later determined that they've had it for years-just never been treated for it.

I'm not insulting God or being a heretic with regard to his scriptures. It's just silly to apply biblical fact to modern science cause they are two separate things. And why are we talking about evolution of man in a website that's based on drugs, bodybuilding, and supplementation, and yes, exercise science. I'm sure we could go to another website that has the word(s) God, bible, faith, Noah, etc. if you want to debate the creation of man/the 900 year old theory. Me, I'm going to stick to learning how to get big, strong, and lean and listen to people who can steer me in that direction and not preach to me like I'm in Sunday mass.

Obviously ur experience in the medical field hasn't taught u enough. Low Testosterone will indeed cause many more problems physically then having it a little higher. Do the research, Low Testosterone is associated with numerous cardiac n prostate problems, along with a higher incidence of stroke. Ur body is at at higher risk of death n disease if Test n Gh r lower than if they r brought back to normal levels.

Google low testosterone n increased incidence of myocardial infarction n stroke. I know a guy at my gym, he's 62 years old n takes 200mg of Cyp a week with daily GH injections, says he's never felt better in his life. Before the treatment with Test n GH he had no sex drive, no energy, n felt like he was dying. The Doc told him his IGF-1 levels were so low that it could possibly kill him or he won't live much longer.

Show me proof on how therapeutic treatment with GH n Testosterone to 60 n 70 year old men will endanger their health. All the tests i have seen show very positive results for men in that age range receiving Test n GH tx.

R u a Doctor, what is ur title in the Medical field. And again, i would like to see authentic test results explaining how Normalizing GH n Testosterone in older men will jeopardize their health. That's a croc of ****.

How old r u if u don't mind me asking. By the way, those dirty low grade made in a backyard Pro-hormones that ur ingesting r way more dangerous to ur body then taking Pharmaceutical Grade Testosterone n GH made in billion dollar controlled laboratories that must follow strict FDA guidlines. So before u start preaching how it's dangerous to increase Test n Gh levels, u need to look at the low grade dirty crap Pro=Hormone health declining garbage u r puttin in ur body. That stuff will mess up your health much faster than any high grade quality Test or Gh made in ultra clean sterile billion dollar drug factories.
 
First off, I'm not a medical doctor but, I'm basically a respiratory therapist. I've worked in many high risk areas of a high profile hospital here in the U.S.. I've seen some of the worst cases that exist and taken care of some of the most sickest patients to ever walk on the face of this earth. So, I do feel I'm qualified to speak about medical related topics.

I don''t disagree at all with the use of testosterone or hgh to enhance overall physical well-being. There is nothing wrong at all both morally or medically in increasing one's natural production of hormones to levels that are considered normal or even above normal. However, some doctors who prescribe test and gh don't take into consideration too much into account any background family history that could potentially do more harm than good. It doesn't matter if it was made in a ultra-clean sterile environment or if its approved by the fda. ANY drug can cause potential harm to someone if careful consideration of the recipients health and well-being. Look at what the fda said about Tylenol and how they were trying to regulate the dosage per capsule. Some of the most powerful and biggest pharmaceutical companies make acetominophen. Depending on your sensitivity, 200 mg of tylenol could strain the hell out of someone's kidneys but, do absolutely nothing to someone else. Besides family history, age, race, and socioeconomic status is also taken into consideration when administering meds-especially schedule III drugs.

Yes, there is research to back up that low testosterone levels contribute to alot of diseases such as heart disease and diabetes. But, research has also shown exogenous testosterone administration can have an effect on increasing PSA levels in the prostate as well as promote high blood pressure if taking a testosterone that stimulates interstital fluid accumulation. A patient I knew who was taking just androgel for a couple of months had to stop because his PSA levels went through the roof once he started using the transdermal patch. He then developed a small nodule as a result of the overstimulation of the prostate and later had to go through 6 weeks of radiation therapy. Luckily, he said that the endocrinologist caught it in time or he would have to go through either chemo or surgery. I couldn't imagine what would have happened if he was taking 200 mg of testosterone per week.

Another bit of evidence you may want to look at (up to you) is a documentary based on one man's journey to rejuvinate himself through hormone therapy. It was part of the 30 days TV show and this guy who participated in this experiment had really high liver enzymes which alarmed the doctor caring for him because he was potentially going into liver failure. Also, his cholesterol values were terrible as well. I didn't see in the show anywhere when they took other lab values besides hormonal panel before therapy. He shoulld have gotten a blood sugar level on him or even during the therapy. Anyway, instead of stopping therapy all together, he decides to lower the dose by a 100 mg and see if that helped. Guess what? It didn't and his liver enzymes were still off the scale. Again, the show didn't show whether or not his liver enzymes were normal prior to administration nor was he questioned during the show whether or not cirrhosis or hepititis ran in his family.

So, the wife is now really pissed off and the husband isn't getting any better. The couple both go back to the doctor who prescribed the drugs to him and told him he should still continue with therapy because of the changes he's made in his muscle mass and fat loss even though this guys about to buy a new liver. He decided to quit therapy and after a few weeks, his levels went back to normal but, what damage was
done during the time his levels were off the chart. Only time will tell.

I agree with alot of what you said as far as the benefits of Test and HgH. Prohormones, on the other hand, can be dangerous, yes. But, like anything else, if you abuse it, you'll potentially cause serious harm to your body just like taking too much test and hgh. I get blood test done before and after every cycle I do. And if something looks odd, I take the appropriate steps to rectify the situation. If it doesn't change my problem, then I wean myself off and take some time off then restart at a lower dose. Test and hgh can be tainted and counterfieted more than prohormones. I wouldn't trust anything overseas or coming across the border at this time. But, not everyone has the conveniency or the dollars to go to a well-being clinic and get monthly shots of test and hgh.
 
First off, I'm not a medical doctor but, I'm basically a respiratory therapist. I've worked in many high risk areas of a high profile hospital here in the U.S.. I've seen some of the worst cases that exist and taken care of some of the most sickest patients to ever walk on the face of this earth. So, I do feel I'm qualified to speak about medical related topics.

I don''t disagree at all with the use of testosterone or hgh to enhance overall physical well-being. There is nothing wrong at all both morally or medically in increasing one's natural production of hormones to levels that are considered normal or even above normal. However, some doctors who prescribe test and gh don't take into consideration too much into account any background family history that could potentially do more harm than good. It doesn't matter if it was made in a ultra-clean sterile environment or if its approved by the fda. ANY drug can cause potential harm to someone if careful consideration of the recipients health and well-being. Look at what the fda said about Tylenol and how they were trying to regulate the dosage per capsule. Some of the most powerful and biggest pharmaceutical companies make acetominophen. Depending on your sensitivity, 200 mg of tylenol could strain the hell out of someone's kidneys but, do absolutely nothing to someone else. Besides family history, age, race, and socioeconomic status is also taken into consideration when administering meds-especially schedule III drugs.

Yes, there is research to back up that low testosterone levels contribute to alot of diseases such as heart disease and diabetes. But, research has also shown exogenous testosterone administration can have an effect on increasing PSA levels in the prostate as well as promote high blood pressure if taking a testosterone that stimulates interstital fluid accumulation. A patient I knew who was taking just androgel for a couple of months had to stop because his PSA levels went through the roof once he started using the transdermal patch. He then developed a small nodule as a result of the overstimulation of the prostate and later had to go through 6 weeks of radiation therapy. Luckily, he said that the endocrinologist caught it in time or he would have to go through either chemo or surgery. I couldn't imagine what would have happened if he was taking 200 mg of testosterone per week.

Another bit of evidence you may want to look at (up to you) is a documentary based on one man's journey to rejuvinate himself through hormone therapy. It was part of the 30 days TV show and this guy who participated in this experiment had really high liver enzymes which alarmed the doctor caring for him because he was potentially going into liver failure. Also, his cholesterol values were terrible as well. I didn't see in the show anywhere when they took other lab values besides hormonal panel before therapy. He shoulld have gotten a blood sugar level on him or even during the therapy. Anyway, instead of stopping therapy all together, he decides to lower the dose by a 100 mg and see if that helped. Guess what? It didn't and his liver enzymes were still off the scale. Again, the show didn't show whether or not his liver enzymes were normal prior to administration nor was he questioned during the show whether or not cirrhosis or hepititis ran in his family.

So, the wife is now really pissed off and the husband isn't getting any better. The couple both go back to the doctor who prescribed the drugs to him and told him he should still continue with therapy because of the changes he's made in his muscle mass and fat loss even though this guys about to buy a new liver. He decided to quit therapy and after a few weeks, his levels went back to normal but, what damage was
done during the time his levels were off the chart. Only time will tell.

I agree with alot of what you said as far as the benefits of Test and HgH. Prohormones, on the other hand, can be dangerous, yes. But, like anything else, if you abuse it, you'll potentially cause serious harm to your body just like taking too much test and hgh. I get blood test done before and after every cycle I do. And if something looks odd, I take the appropriate steps to rectify the situation. If it doesn't change my problem, then I wean myself off and take some time off then restart at a lower dose. Test and hgh can be tainted and counterfieted more than prohormones. I wouldn't trust anything overseas or coming across the border at this time. But, not everyone has the conveniency or the dollars to go to a well-being clinic and get monthly shots of test and hgh.

Ur right, people should have complete blood work done before beginning Hormone therapy. I need Testosterone the rest of my life secondary to steroid abuse years ago. I only use Pharmacy bought Testosterone made in the USA. I have a very good Endo, he is even considering giving me Gh if i need it.

Androgel is the worst **** u can put in your body. I stopped taking it recently cause i needed 3 paks a day to get any results, the stuff gave me nausea, left white crust all over my skin, and quadruples your DHT level way more than Cypionate. And we all know High DHT will wreak havoc on ur health, which it began to do in my case. The stuff is loaded with chemicals and over time will lead to catastrophic health consequences. I will never put any topical testosterone on my body again, especially that crap poison Androgel. Cypionate is just the oil and the Hormone, very clean and low toxicity, as long as it's not abused.

Prohormones r extremely hard on your liver, kidney's and possibly ur heart. They're crude mechanism of raising testosterone is very hard on your body and terrible for ur health. Wouldn't touch that **** if u payed me.

My Endo said the most effective n safest low toxicity method of raising Testosterone is injection. The best one is Depo-Testosterone, a gold standard among Endocrinologist. I use generic Cyp cause it only costs me $10 at CVS, n Depo-Test is $61. So, if u want the absolute safest cleanest n purist form of effective Testosterone Pharmaceutical grade Testosterone Cypionate is the one. Don't go overboard on the dosage( i use about 200-400mg a week for life). U must eat an excellent healthy diet and exercise to put that Testosterone to good use, n off course lots of sex with ur woman. I f u can't eat a good diet, don't exercise, then forget it, u'll only b harming ur health. And make sure u don't have any pre-existing conditions as bramabull mentioned, or you could be seriously jeopardizing ur health.

By the way, i have been in the medical field for 16 years. 8 of them as a Physical Therapist in numerous settings, so i'm not green to this at all.
 
By the way, i have been in the medical field for 16 years. 8 of them as a Physical Therapist in numerous settings, so i'm not green to this at all.

But yet you managed to wreck your body from steroid abuse?

And you just recently learned that using Androgel was not a good idea?
 
But yet you managed to wreck your body from steroid abuse?

And you just recently learned that using Androgel was not a good idea?

I think this whole conversation has taken a pretty strange twist.

I honestly find it funny that somebody states a mouthful about human physiology and steroids, then to go and say that at one point in time humans lived 900 years... and had high test levels for 850 years (btw, could you please source this "fact" for me? Did you read it on Pub Med? ;) ), and then to call someone a fool for thinking differently.

To tout history and theology (I would say mythology, but I'll play nice this time) above science and physics... especially in the medical field scares the heck out of me. Would you read a 2000 year old medical journal? Maybe get some advice on blood-letting? lol...

But seriously... what is the point of this thread? It was talking a guy out of giving his elderly father Epistane. We talked him out of it. Months ago. Done. Closed. Move on.
 
I realize the thread was started a long time ago and the question has now become hypothetical, but I would like to add my two cents if nobody minds.

I think regardless of his age, four months of training isnt enough to wisely start a PH cycle.

I know that definately there are some guys that age who can handle PHs, but its not something I would try with a guy who has never done them before.

I knew a guy who was 70 when he ran a cycle of anadrol. But he had been lifting for over twenty years. We were pretty proud of the guts of the guy. His lifts improved a lot too (and they were always pretty impressive. Far stronger then the non-hardcore lifters).
 
I realize the thread was started a long time ago and the question has now become hypothetical, but I would like to add my two cents if nobody minds.

I think regardless of his age, four months of training isnt enough to wisely start a PH cycle.

I know that definately there are some guys that age who can handle PHs, but its not something I would try with a guy who has never done them before.

I knew a guy who was 70 when he ran a cycle of anadrol. But he had been lifting for over twenty years. We were pretty proud of the guts of the guy. His lifts improved a lot too (and they were always pretty impressive. Far stronger then the non-hardcore lifters).

I wouldt even reccomend TRT to a 70 year old who was lifting unless he had some GH to heal his joints.
 
KD, my VA Doc put me on TRT, the patch, two months ago. I notice absolutely no difference in my joints compared to my normal lifting (using all-naturals) or even when I did cycles with Epi/Form. In all three cases I have had great success by using Cissus/Super Cissus and megadoses of Fish Oil (in order to get at least 2 gms of Omega 3S ED)
 
KD, my VA Doc put me on TRT, the patch, two months ago. I notice absolutely no difference in my joints compared to my normal lifting (using all-naturals) or even when I did cycles with Epi/Form. In all three cases I have had great success by using Cissus/Super Cissus and megadoses of Fish Oil (in order to get at least 2 gms of Omega 3S ED)

Thanks for the update.

Your experience, age, and wisdom are much appreciated and valued!

Please don't be a stranger.
 
I'd give him a warm glass of milk instead of epi.
 
Have him get on small doses of real Testosterone. 1-2 paks of Androgel a day should do the job. Age doesn't mean ****. There's a 70 year old guy at my gym that would put most if not all you guys to shame. Hormones r the only thing that's gonna help him regenerate, supplements r a freaken waste of money. If i can't live big, lean, muscular n pumped, why live at all. I'm taking Test, Gh, whatever i can get the Doc to prescribe till I'm 105, if i make it that long.

Remember, men used to live to be 900 years old before the flood of Noah. They had high testosterone at 850 years old, that's why they had so many kids. Earth was different back then, clean environment, and different atmospheric pressure resulted in much larger muscular men and animals.

Was that a joke?????
 
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