frontloading hdrol??
- Thread starter bigdave
- Start date
celc5
Well-known member
What is your goal with frontloading? Are you trying to make it kick in faster? I just don't think that will work :think:
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
I don't get it either.
lennoxchi
Well-known member
i don't know, it might work. like front loading test-e. start at a high does then after 2 weeks resume to what doseage you really want to be at.....hmm, might work
bigdave
New member
exactly to kick in faster,many people frontload some injectables and have some success is elevating serum levels of the drug and I was wondering anyones opinion or perhaps experience on frontloading a substance like halodrol in order to see results faster. kicking in on week 3 of a 6 week cycle leaves me wanting more on a potentially hepatoxic hormone. i did 8 weeks hdrol (50-75mg)in the summer with great results however my liver values and bp elevated slighly and my sleep quality declined while on
celc5
Well-known member
Let's say we start at 75 or 100mg, it doesn't REALLY kick until about day 14 or 21 (ish) anyhow. So starting at that dose (100) and then tapering down still doesn't change the "kick in" time for this compound IMO.
I have a theory with these fast acting orals that we can get something out of a low dose, but only to a point. When that initial dose is maxed out, we bump to the next level, max out our potential at that dose, then repeat to keep the cycle productive and prevent mid-cycle plateau.
If we frontload, where do we go when we reach that dosage specific plateau? Higher dosage, right?
If we're tapering, we still have an exogenous hormone source prolonging suppression... but it doesn't even push the plateau threshold higher to do more work. So theoretically, we are accomplishing less while still be "on." We could do that by starting pct and bringing endogenous hormones back in the process.
That's me thinking out loud, so my theory could certainly be chalked full of holes.
I have a theory with these fast acting orals that we can get something out of a low dose, but only to a point. When that initial dose is maxed out, we bump to the next level, max out our potential at that dose, then repeat to keep the cycle productive and prevent mid-cycle plateau.
If we frontload, where do we go when we reach that dosage specific plateau? Higher dosage, right?
If we're tapering, we still have an exogenous hormone source prolonging suppression... but it doesn't even push the plateau threshold higher to do more work. So theoretically, we are accomplishing less while still be "on." We could do that by starting pct and bringing endogenous hormones back in the process.
That's me thinking out loud, so my theory could certainly be chalked full of holes.
Libertarian
Active member
In this case I doubt it would make much of a difference how fast HPTA suppression occurs. Also, what's the point of trying to "utilize your natty test as long as possible before shutdown"?
dpfisher
Guest
Can anyone give a legit reason for the "kick in" time? I mean it should be binding to receptors from day one right? As a methyl it's going to have high availability. The only explanation I can think of is that it is accumulating over time- in which case frontloading would be effective.
Possible cons: May not work, sides will probably hit harder as you won't have any time to adjust to it.
Possible cons: May not work, sides will probably hit harder as you won't have any time to adjust to it.
Trauma1
Legend
Target hormone conversion has a lot to do with it; with this being a prohormone. Some guys will get better conversion than others due to genetic factors of steroidogenic enzymes (3b-HSD in particular here).
Check this out:
celc5
Well-known member
Another interesting thing with "kick in" with halo is that, in my opinion, we FEEL it kick in sometime around day 20.
I used calipers and recomp was occuring for me by day 5 and 10. So I think people just aren't seeing the scale move and assume it's doing nothing in those first 10 or 20 days.
TripDog
Bananas
?? Are you saying that shutdown isn't dose dependant? Natural test is just going to deal with the lethargy associated with oral only cycles without running test. It will add to the overall level of anabolic hormones present, but nothing drastic. It's not a huge concern if using some type of test precursor, but sometimes little things add up.
Trauma1
Legend
I didn't "feel" anything significant with it until about day 21 or so. From there on out though, it was fairly impressive. I suspect I didn't dose it high enough initially (50mg x 3 weeks) to see better effects at my weight at the time. I bumped it to 100mg/day on day 22, and it was markedly more noticeable all around. I think the strength gains and recomposition effects impressed me more than anything.
A pretty good compound that was very mild in comparison of side effects with say Superdrol or Phera Plex.
I don't think front loading this is going to have any significant effect. I agree that people are looking at the scale and not the mirror.
dpfisher
Guest
It's active on its own though and the half-life is similar for both compounds right? Unless somehow the body becomes more efficient at converting it with time...
I mean "kick in" time with esterified injectables makes sense- takes time to break them apart into bases. As far as the methyls, I really don't get it.
Trauma1
Legend
I don't have much faith in any significant intrinsic value it offers before conversion. There are going to be people that get better conversion rates due to the factors I stated above. The body isn't going to become more efficient in converting the target hormone Those steroidogenic enzmyes are genetic factors that aren't modifiable, so it's all in the luck of the draw there.
Most people should still get very decent results overall.
-John
dpfisher
Guest
So basically what you're thinking is it's binding to the set amount of enzymes you have. The tbol builds up over time then does the actual muscle building, and if you take more hdrol-frontloaded or endloaded- the extra just floats around doing nothing?
Yeah that makes a lot of sense actually, also explains why with high doses you get increased sides but not increased gains.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense actually, also explains why with high doses you get increased sides but not increased gains.
Libertarian
Active member
I see what you're saying. But still, I don't think HPTA suppression is going to be noticeably different starting off with 100mg vs 75mg. When I run a cycle, I'm not worried about trying to delay suppression a few days - it's going to happen anyway, so I go in with the mindset of making the most out of the cycle and maximizing gains. Eh, splitting hairs I suppose.
SeanEH
New member
Isn't a typical t-bol dose 50 mg a day? And it's not a particularly strong steroid. If halo converts at 5% - even 10%, I would expect nothing from the conversion. It does work, so something else must be happening, right?
OnTheRoadTo
Active member
Where are the conversion rates coming from - 5% seems low (I know it is on PP's website).