13-Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2,5(10)-Diene-17-One?
- Thread starter mclucas
- Start date
edwards
Active member
This is a Progestin, brought onto the market by ALRI and originally called Max LMG. I've seen it sold as Tren 13-ethyl by XS Labs.
Search for Max LMG and you'll find some info on it.
Here's an old description of Max LMG:
The active compound in Max LMG is 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one. I find it unlikely that there are very many aware of this structure, but it is definitely worth discussing. It is legal because it is a progestin, and before anyone thinks "birth-control", remember that trenbolone, nandrolone, methyltrienolone and Methyl-Dien all are also progestins. I doubt anyone will disagree with the effects of these compounds upon favorable body composition. But they do all have one bad effect to put an end to... (I should add for comparison that Clomid and Nolvadex are estrogens...and how many males have rid themselves of feminizing effects plus increased natural testosterone production with them?)
As a progestin, Max LMG is structurally related to the so-called abortion pill RU-486 and as such acts as an "anti-progesterone". Yes, this means decreased estrogen-like effects and also an increase in libido. This is probably why so many testers have referred to Max LMG as the anti-Deca-****/Tren-**** product. Research suggests that Max LMG has a half-life of about 6 hours, though it appears that it's closer to 10 hours based upon plasma levels maintained in our test subjects. It is not a 17-alkylated analog thus having very low potential for liver toxicity. However, it should be noted that oral bioavailability is significant as a administration protocol of 25mg 3 times daily provides about the same results as 10mg 2 times daily of Ergomax LMG in regard to body composition effects, strength and lean mass.
Search for Max LMG and you'll find some info on it.
Here's an old description of Max LMG:
The active compound in Max LMG is 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one. I find it unlikely that there are very many aware of this structure, but it is definitely worth discussing. It is legal because it is a progestin, and before anyone thinks "birth-control", remember that trenbolone, nandrolone, methyltrienolone and Methyl-Dien all are also progestins. I doubt anyone will disagree with the effects of these compounds upon favorable body composition. But they do all have one bad effect to put an end to... (I should add for comparison that Clomid and Nolvadex are estrogens...and how many males have rid themselves of feminizing effects plus increased natural testosterone production with them?)
As a progestin, Max LMG is structurally related to the so-called abortion pill RU-486 and as such acts as an "anti-progesterone". Yes, this means decreased estrogen-like effects and also an increase in libido. This is probably why so many testers have referred to Max LMG as the anti-Deca-****/Tren-**** product. Research suggests that Max LMG has a half-life of about 6 hours, though it appears that it's closer to 10 hours based upon plasma levels maintained in our test subjects. It is not a 17-alkylated analog thus having very low potential for liver toxicity. However, it should be noted that oral bioavailability is significant as a administration protocol of 25mg 3 times daily provides about the same results as 10mg 2 times daily of Ergomax LMG in regard to body composition effects, strength and lean mass.
Pikaberdot
New member
bump
ozarkaBRAND
Well-known member
75mg a day will yield descent results.
Liftingstud
Well-known member
Max LMG
Innovator: ALRI
Nomenclature: 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
Pill size: 25mg
Dosages: 25-135mg daily
Side effects: Can easily aggrevate gynecomastia. May be a libido killer. This is another progestin.
Reputation: A bulking compound through and through. Users can expect great recovery, and soaking WET gains.
Innovator: ALRI
Nomenclature: 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
Pill size: 25mg
Dosages: 25-135mg daily
Side effects: Can easily aggrevate gynecomastia. May be a libido killer. This is another progestin.
Reputation: A bulking compound through and through. Users can expect great recovery, and soaking WET gains.
celc5
Well-known member
This is the sorta thing I was thinking about. I'm also suspecting a libido swing ... I'm just guessing here but I bet libido jumps when you first start dosing then pretty much collapses somewhere around the end of the second or third week.
Btw, could you elaborate with what was difficult for you in that first week of pct?
stxnas
Well-known member
I've researched this a lot.
As stated, appears to be an all out bulker. Great for size and strength, but notorious for bloat and the potential for gyno. I've also read that it kills libido pretty quickly. Some of the makers claimed that the libido would remain fine if one didn't use too large of daily doses though.
I remember seeing people getting decent gains from 40mg - 50mg (depending on the product). It looks like most guys go up to 75mg though.
As stated, appears to be an all out bulker. Great for size and strength, but notorious for bloat and the potential for gyno. I've also read that it kills libido pretty quickly. Some of the makers claimed that the libido would remain fine if one didn't use too large of daily doses though.
I remember seeing people getting decent gains from 40mg - 50mg (depending on the product). It looks like most guys go up to 75mg though.
soma
Member
Ive only seen it dosed in 25 and 40 mgs caps... Id say 75 is about the minimum you should use. I used the Generic LAbz original at 3 caps a day (120 mgs) and have use as little as 75mg of MAXlmg alongside epi. It does seem to be a wet compound with great strength gains,good size gains, and moderate agression increase. The higher the dose obviously the more water it seems to bring. Does have a negative impact on libido for me starting about week 3- drive diminishes a lot. Pct never seemed hard, but i always use a SERM, low dose AI, anti-cort, and test booster as my pct base for just about any cycle. ( i actually think it may bring more size the real tren...far fewer sides, but not as "dry"-tren makes me hold sum h20 anyway and doesnt give me the incredible strength gains a lot of people get while running tren). So its fair to say i like 13-ethyl gains and lack of liver toxicity.
celc5
Well-known member
Thanks for the info soma. I appreciate that you listed both pros and cons of the compound.
Just out of curiosity, what were your dosages with your epi/lmg stack? I was sort of thinking of using a lower dose lmg stacked with either epi at like 40 or halo at something like 75.
Just out of curiosity, what were your dosages with your epi/lmg stack? I was sort of thinking of using a lower dose lmg stacked with either epi at like 40 or halo at something like 75.
celc5
Well-known member
You said solo, right? So you weren't taking anything every day. I'm wondering if I ran Halo straight through and dosed lmg MWF if that would work out :think:
celc5
Well-known member
Oh ya, you were the one who thought 1t was mild... ya, your opinion shouldn't count for me. I get CRUSHED by everything i experiment with :trout:
jeanlolonnais
Member
Later in the year I plan on stacking M-LMG with E-STANE. With E being run at 30 and M being run at 75.
superfly07
New member
If you are wanting to stack it with epi there is a new product out from element nutrition called monster. suggested dosage is 3 times daily, each dose containing 25 mg 13-ethyl and 10 mg epi
Renagade860
New member
I just bought a bottle of Monster with the two combined. Starting next week. I think I got too lean on my last cycle of winny and testabolan v2
Outstanding
Well-known member
Have you ever ran Max-LMG or 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one as a standalone to gain a better specific perspective of the compound (opposed to in concert with Epistane).
Also, I would appreciate any feedback and discussion regarding transitioning into this compound from Dianabol, and continuing to run Test-E and Tren-A in order to avoid prolonged Dianabol duration and hepatotoxic concerns. Seems the literature and offered write-ups across the 'net are all conflicting with anecdotal reports of the quality of gains; the manufacturers would all have you believe dry, solid, vascular gains will be realized while administering this chemical, while the users claim heavy water-retention and possibly bloat (although I believe even while on Test/Dianabol these side effects can be limited with a proper and strict diet).
At any rate... since I do not have any Anavar on hand at the moment, I would like to gain some information revolving around the inclusion of this oral while on Test-E and Tren-A as my injection foundation. I also have been taking Nolvadex as well, due to the quick onset of tissue build up under the nipple from Dianabol, and it sounds like this compound might be nearly as harsh in this regard?
Outstanding
Well-known member
Can't this be effectively controlled and mitigated through proper AI/SERM usage while on cycle once side-effects begin to materialize severely enough? I have never been an advocate of running AI/SERMs while ON cycle by any means, but of course cannot dismiss their useful function to favorably modulate the influx of estrogen brought about by androgen administration.
What would an effective COA recommendation be to combat the anticipated rise in Estrogen(ic) side effects? Nolvadex @ 40mg/ED paired with 1mg Arimidex EOD? Thanks for any input, as I am unfamiliar with this certain compound (Max-LMG) but have a massive surplus of it waiting to be put to good use (please see above for rest of cycle details)!
PS: Libido will not be an issue due to Test-E inclusion, and since this will be my only oral after Dianabol cessation, and it is not methylated, either will liver toxicity. So, if I can get a firm grasp on the estrogen condition, I will be able to truly reap some excellent anabolism and strength gains from this supplement it sounds like.
Outstanding
Well-known member
Can't this be effectively controlled and mitigated through proper AI/SERM usage while on cycle once side-effects begin to materialize severely enough? I have never been an advocate of running AI/SERMs while ON cycle by any means, but of course cannot dismiss their useful function to favorably modulate the influx of estrogen brought about by androgen administration.
What would an effective COA recommendation be to combat the anticipated rise in Estrogen(ic) side effects? Nolvadex @ 40mg/ED paired with 1mg Arimidex EOD? Thanks for any input, as I am unfamiliar with this certain compound (Max-LMG) but have a massive surplus of it waiting to be put to good use (please see above for rest of cycle details)!
PS: Libido will not be an issue due to Test-E inclusion, and since this will be my only oral after Dianabol cessation, and it is not methylated, either will liver toxicity. So, if I can get a firm grasp on the estrogen condition, I will be able to truly reap some excellent anabolism and strength gains from this supplement it sounds like.
Have you ever ran Max-LMG or 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one as a standalone to gain a better specific perspective of the compound (opposed to in concert with Epistane).
Also, I would appreciate any feedback and discussion regarding transitioning into this compound from Dianabol, and continuing to run Test-E and Tren-A in order to avoid prolonged Dianabol duration and hepatotoxic concerns. Seems the literature and offered write-ups across the 'net are all conflicting with anecdotal reports of the quality of gains; the manufacturers would all have you believe dry, solid, vascular gains will be realized while administering this chemical, while the users claim heavy water-retention and possibly bloat (although I believe even while on Test/Dianabol these side effects can be limited with a proper and strict diet).
At any rate... since I do not have any Anavar on hand at the moment, I would like to gain some information revolving around the inclusion of this oral while on Test-E and Tren-A as my injection foundation. I also have been taking Nolvadex as well, due to the quick onset of tissue build up under the nipple from Dianabol, and it sounds like this compound might be nearly as harsh in this regard?
*I bumped this from the last page since it lapsed with the beginning of page 2. Regarding Prolactin, what would be the most tried/true measure to counteract these unwanted sides?
soma
Member
I thought Nolva was a no-no with anabolics that have strong action on the progesterone receptor (tren, nandrolone, etc..) Wouldn't that be the case with 13-ethyl? What about having Caber or Prami on hand? (ive never used them personally). Dunno how combing tren and 13-ethyl will be on the nips - lol. Personally id use the Arimidex(or aromasin) and have prami on hand based on my reading. You may have not trouble at all with just the AI controlling the estro.
celc5
Well-known member
I agree with your logic here
Outstanding
Well-known member
Thanks a lot for your thoughts. I agree that the negation of most estrogen side effects via use of AI/SERMS will also cause a decrease in prolactin production and sides as well. The analog to vitamin B6 (P-5-P) seems to be the OTC compound with the most support and a healthy consensus after doing some refresher research.
I have decided to implement some Anastrozole (Arimidex) + Raloxifene to combat the Test-E/Tren-A sides effects that have been hovering between mild/severe for the past couple weeks... only relying upon P-5-P if absolutely necessary.
I just have almost a limitless supply of Tren 13-ethyl, and was curious about it's possible use in conjunction with Tren-A + Test-E, but it would appear there isn't much support for that notion from the members here.
hungryH
Member
I disagree.
Having run it, I feel it converts highly to estrogen. It gave me very very heavy bloat at 150mg, and I don't bloat from deca(progestins)
I asked PA and he said it might aromatise.
Just because CEL claim it doesn't doesnt make it true.
xjsynx
Member
Run the protocol I suggested, pramipexole .25mg ED + Armidex .25mg ED, and you are covered.
EasyEJL
Never enough
It wasn't a CEL product they are just clonesters, it was originally an ALRI product. You have blood tests to back up your "feelings"? If not, i'll pass on believing them. Who cares about either CEL's claims or what PA says "maybe" about? Not me, any more than your feelings of estrogen. In all the time its been out, you are the first person I've ever heard to claim it aromatizes. I'll just leave it at that.
hungryH
Member
What? No offence to you because you are a quality poster, but that was a downright stupid reply.You, nor anybody else, have any reason to believe that this product does not aromatise. Alri is notorious for making false claims.
Based on experience, I would say that it definately does. The only way I can compare the bloat was to my first ever cycle over a decade ago, which was a gram of test a week with dbol, and no AI.
EasyEJL
Never enough
From what others have said of the chemical structure, it doesn't aromatize. PA saying it might is like anyone else saying it might. If he isn't saying "it does", and defining what path it does convert by, then any conversion to estrogen it "might" have has to be minimal. If there was a direct simple path, he would have said "it definitely converts to estrogen" and would have said how it does.
Bloat and water retention can come from plenty of other things besides estrogen. I can understand you got bloat like you got from high estrogen levels, and like you didn't get from deca/tren, but that doesn't mean that the max lmg converted to high levels of estrogen. Thats about like saying a baseball bat to the head can kill someone, and a heart attack can kill someone, so the baseball bat must be causing a heart attack.
Now I will grant that I have less faith in CEL's COAs than some other people do, so its possible that there were also impurities in the product. But along with your bloat, did you see decreased libido?
hungryH
Member
I have also read numerous times that it doesn't aromatise, but the truth is most people don't know ****. They just tell other people what they read from other people who dont know **** about what they are talking about like parrots.
I realise I have absolutely no evidence to support my claims here, but I am simply stating my opinion. I would say at least 20-30% of what I read on these forums and other AAS forums is complete BS.
I certainly believe that is a progestin, that is not debateable but I also believe it to be directly estrogenic.
And no, my libido did not decrease, it increased significantly.
And maybe you are right about "impurities" in the product, I don't know personally
jbryand101b
Banned
max lmg is not a progestin. it is an androgen, and like all androgens, is able to bind to the progestin receptor.
some androgens bind more strongly to the progestin recpetor than others. sime bind, and have no interaction with it, just blocking it (stanozol) and others can have a stronger interaction with it (nor androgens)
progestin receptor interaction can enhance estrogenic side effects. and if the androgen/estrogen balance isn't adequate enough, you will notice more estrogenic side effects.
max lmg can be converted into a nor dione ph, and then into a nor testosterone compound.
It really bugs me to see people calling androgens progestins. if you are going to do this, you will need to start calling them all that.
some androgens bind more strongly to the progestin recpetor than others. sime bind, and have no interaction with it, just blocking it (stanozol) and others can have a stronger interaction with it (nor androgens)
progestin receptor interaction can enhance estrogenic side effects. and if the androgen/estrogen balance isn't adequate enough, you will notice more estrogenic side effects.
max lmg can be converted into a nor dione ph, and then into a nor testosterone compound.
It really bugs me to see people calling androgens progestins. if you are going to do this, you will need to start calling them all that.
hungryH
Member
Yes I realise this but you know what I mean.
19-nor "tren" is also not a progestin, but it does supposedly act upon the progestin receptor. According to vida it actually acts primarily with the androgen receptors.
jbryand101b
Banned
All androgens are able to bind to the p.r. to some degree. So i f you are going to call it a progesten because of this you should call them all progestens. that's all I'm saying. Make it clear what you mean you are going to confuse people.
BrYmAsTeR17
Banned
BrYmAsTeR17
Banned
The only exception to this would be LG's methyl 1-P. It's a derivative of Megestrol *edit I think-thus making it the only "true progestin." There may be others, idk but when people call things progestins like Tren and such, it bugs me as well.
phatmike0704
Well-known member
what would hit the hairline harder, lmg or m14add? im guessin m14