First Test cycle - feedback wanted.
- Thread starter Leto220
- Start date
manofbushido
Guest
Have you used DBol before?
You could take it down to 4 weeks.
I'm w/Freqfly save the nolva for PCT and use aromasin or arimidex while "on".
I have seen people front load clomid, but 300mg seems high.
Maybe 100mg week 12, then week 13-16 50mg daily.
So lower the clomid dose and extend it by a week.
How often are you planning on pinning the test-e?
Plus at 5'10" and 220 what is your BF%? You may want to skip the DBol all together.
You could take it down to 4 weeks.
I'm w/Freqfly save the nolva for PCT and use aromasin or arimidex while "on".
I have seen people front load clomid, but 300mg seems high.
Maybe 100mg week 12, then week 13-16 50mg daily.
So lower the clomid dose and extend it by a week.
How often are you planning on pinning the test-e?
Plus at 5'10" and 220 what is your BF%? You may want to skip the DBol all together.
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
Lets see some pictures, you can say what you think your bodyfat is all day, but pictures are the truest.
How long ya been lifting? What is your diet like right now?
Also, running Nolva at 10mg through cycle is pointless. Why do you think your going to get gyno? Ever run a cycle before?
Don't like the length of DBol run or the dosage really, if it were me I would run the DBol higher and for a shorter time.
How long ya been lifting? What is your diet like right now?
Also, running Nolva at 10mg through cycle is pointless. Why do you think your going to get gyno? Ever run a cycle before?
Don't like the length of DBol run or the dosage really, if it were me I would run the DBol higher and for a shorter time.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
not bad, the dbol length is on the long side (but I think it looks tasty). The nolva treatment is OK i think but I am more inclined to look for an AI for on cycle estrogen management. PCT is good but run the 50mg out at least another 5 days. You say your PCT is weeks 12/13/14/15 yet you only list 21 days of PCT! sooo... Mathematical error there bro.
I know, i wish more people would post pictures. Height and weight doesn't mean anything. Height weight and BF means a lot. But I think most people don't know their bf accurately at all.
A picture is always worth a thousand words though, and I keep a lot of them... I always thought making progress necessitated knowing exactly where you stand and that means taking pictures, so I take a lot to monitor my progress, and it helps immensely.
Leto220
New member
Thanks for all the replies.
To answer some of the questions:
I'm 41 and have been training seriously (steroid free) for 3 years. I can squat max 230kgs and bench max 130kgs. I train 3 days per week.
Body Fat %? I'm not ripped but my stomach is flat. 20% BF? Does this make a difference to the cycle I should use?
My diet is heavy on rice and chicken with 2 big protein shakes per day. I've noticed that anything less than 3 large meals a day and I lose weight and strength.
I experimented with DBol for a month on 25mgs a day and experienced good increases in strength, bad back ache and shrunken testicles. Once I stopped i retained the strength and my balls are back to normal. In hindsight it was an interesting experiment but I didn't gain any noticeable size. Probably a waste of time but I've never used any steroids before. Still learning.
Why am I worried re the gyno? Novice paranoia probably. The Dbol didn't cause anything except small balls. In 41 years I've never been injected with anything except travel and flu vaccines.
Thanks for the tips re photos, PCT and spotting my maths errors!
To answer some of the questions:
I'm 41 and have been training seriously (steroid free) for 3 years. I can squat max 230kgs and bench max 130kgs. I train 3 days per week.
Body Fat %? I'm not ripped but my stomach is flat. 20% BF? Does this make a difference to the cycle I should use?
My diet is heavy on rice and chicken with 2 big protein shakes per day. I've noticed that anything less than 3 large meals a day and I lose weight and strength.
I experimented with DBol for a month on 25mgs a day and experienced good increases in strength, bad back ache and shrunken testicles. Once I stopped i retained the strength and my balls are back to normal. In hindsight it was an interesting experiment but I didn't gain any noticeable size. Probably a waste of time but I've never used any steroids before. Still learning.
Why am I worried re the gyno? Novice paranoia probably. The Dbol didn't cause anything except small balls. In 41 years I've never been injected with anything except travel and flu vaccines.
Thanks for the tips re photos, PCT and spotting my maths errors!
timmmah
Active member
At 41, you are the poster boy for test. run the enan for 12 weeks as it really has no affect until week 4 or 5 anyway. The extra two weeks don't sound like much but are adding like another 33% to your total time with results. 10 weeks minus 4 weeks before you feel anything equals 6 weeks of time with results.
Wudog
Active member
you will love test e....that is what I am doing right now as my first cycle.....I must say I am very very happy with it and it's only the begining of week 7. My bench has gone up from barely being able to do 225 once...to sets of 10 at 240. Loving it.....I have not experience any sides at all and I am not weighed down with water weight either...abs are coming in nicely.....
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
You started using steroids before you could even bench press 225? That's sad...
Wudog
Active member
I use to max 320 when i weighed 155...but I blew out my knee and I coldn't do anything for over 6 months....nothing at all...so I got my muscles back to working out and jumped on cycle.......What's sad is that if you are running any kind of AAS the way your body looks...obviously you are lacking something....
Rike
New member
Wow, I have been natural since I was 12 and I am now 40 going on 41 in Jan and I am just now considering the jump to the "dark side". I am the largest & leanest natural guy I know to completely honest and I even get accused of juicing and lying about it just because my diet is spot on ( I measure every nutrient at every meal and have since I was 20 and I can count how many cheat meals I have had on one hand since this time) & my training is intense.
It kills me when i read things like this but I wish you luck.
It kills me when i read things like this but I wish you luck.
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
Your cute. That picture was taken about a year ago at around 220 10% bodyfat. I've made ridiculous progress since then with no cycling whatsoever up to 240 and lower bodyfat, so I'd say I am doing pretty well for myself
Ever think about maybe doing a little work without steroids? Maybe get back to 245? Something ridiculous like maybe even the big 3 plates? If you really were there your muscle memory would have taken you back there very fast, faster than any steroid ever could. Then you could have jumped on cycle and blasted through where you ended up, but that would have been wisdom
Don't be so sensitive buddy, some people see things different than you do, just roll with it.
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
I agree man - I started my first cycle at 23 and REALLY wish I hadn't done that personally. Don't think you necessarily have to wait till 40 - thats more personal preference, but I do like the rule of getting somewhere close to your genetic potential before hopping on. Good to see someone is using the noodle a little before just hopping on blindly
neverstop
Well-known member
yeah, don't take it personally here, everyone is here to teach and learn even if some guys don't pad their words.
cycle looks like fun, get some HCG though at 250iu twice a week and then run the test for 12-14 weeks, drop the clomid dose too, 300mg is nuts high, you'll see many examples on here in the PCT section.
if my bf was >15% i'd run a natural cut first too. sounds like if you cut bodyfat for 2-3 months while you preload your support supps, use some diesel test hardcore and some creatine, ZMAs and maybe ECAs you'd probably be right there. having bf that high I've heard can cause issues when on test due to the highest estrogen levels that occur when you add test to your body. you'll have a MUCH better time if you cut down first. be patient man, trust us, we've been where you are now before and we're just trying to help out a fellow bro. If you're diet is right and you are working out hard, often and consistent <15%bf should be very easy to maintain regardless of your body type
looks like a fun first cycle though man, keep your expecations realistic though, test works slow and steady so just keep at it. you'll feel like you're not making gains but know the body can only build 1-2lbs of REAL muscle a week. so if you're up 1lb+ a week or so without adding bf you're doing great even though that feels like slow progress. trust me though, in the end when you are leaner and 10lbs more muscle its a BIG difference.
use arimidex on cycle too, at probably 1-2mg a day. that's what i do. test will make you bloated without it. I also run a little finasteride for prostate/hair usually.
I'd probably drop the dbol and use anavar or pheraplex if you have the option too.
feel free to PM me if you have ?s
be sure to get blood work done and take notes and log your cycle here too, that way you'll have help the whole way through, I now try to log all my cycles, there are some SMART dudes on here that will help you more than you can imagine
cycle looks like fun, get some HCG though at 250iu twice a week and then run the test for 12-14 weeks, drop the clomid dose too, 300mg is nuts high, you'll see many examples on here in the PCT section.
if my bf was >15% i'd run a natural cut first too. sounds like if you cut bodyfat for 2-3 months while you preload your support supps, use some diesel test hardcore and some creatine, ZMAs and maybe ECAs you'd probably be right there. having bf that high I've heard can cause issues when on test due to the highest estrogen levels that occur when you add test to your body. you'll have a MUCH better time if you cut down first. be patient man, trust us, we've been where you are now before and we're just trying to help out a fellow bro. If you're diet is right and you are working out hard, often and consistent <15%bf should be very easy to maintain regardless of your body type
looks like a fun first cycle though man, keep your expecations realistic though, test works slow and steady so just keep at it. you'll feel like you're not making gains but know the body can only build 1-2lbs of REAL muscle a week. so if you're up 1lb+ a week or so without adding bf you're doing great even though that feels like slow progress. trust me though, in the end when you are leaner and 10lbs more muscle its a BIG difference.
use arimidex on cycle too, at probably 1-2mg a day. that's what i do. test will make you bloated without it. I also run a little finasteride for prostate/hair usually.
I'd probably drop the dbol and use anavar or pheraplex if you have the option too.
feel free to PM me if you have ?s
be sure to get blood work done and take notes and log your cycle here too, that way you'll have help the whole way through, I now try to log all my cycles, there are some SMART dudes on here that will help you more than you can imagine
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
Rike
New member
I agree man - I started my first cycle at 23 and REALLY wish I hadn't done that personally. Don't think you necessarily have to wait till 40 - thats more personal preference, but I do like the rule of getting somewhere close to your genetic potential before hopping on. Good to see someone is using the noodle a little before just hopping on blindly
Thanks man! I appreciate the kind words. Sounds like you got a good grasp of things yourself. Keep it up!
We basically are saying the same thing. Max out your genetic potential B4 trying to use hormonal assistance. You learn your way around a good diet whether it be bulking or dieting and you learn how to push yourself to earn every rep, pound (or Kg) that you move.
This is not directed to the thread starter but I see more younger prohormone or steroid users in my gym who look like crap and that work out with zero intensity and think that people like us are just using a better ****tail or higher doses when we are actually not even using.
This is the same angle you get when you hear the huge pros getting tweaked by people saying they are only huge because they use better /more drugs. While I do not use, I see their point of view and why they get angered. They actually work hard and they just mastered the basics before they decided to move to the next level.
peace!
Rike
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
I agree with you man. I was actually repping 335/405/455 b/sq/d respectively before I touched the first steroid, which is better than most, but I had no idea how much further I could get without it. After a couple cycles I was just going back and forth from mountain top to valley and realized I had a lot to learn. So I put it all away and just decided to take everything I had and focus on training as intense and purposeful as possible using different methods and variations learning my body. Diet was something I was doing well, but not near like I should have down to the gram of every macronutrient and wow the progress that followed - steroids can't touch the anabolism of food/rest when done right
Those numbers I was at were impressive, but with no juice moved up to repping 375/455/485 with better form. Having said that I am about to go on a cycle here in the next couple months or so 400mg test cyp/600mg EQ and thats it. Don't think more is needed. I guess I feel after training for around 8 years and through trial and error in many things I am pretty close to my potential - I haven't noticed much progress at all in the last couple months regardless what I do to help spike it. So I feel like its really time now.
Anyways, love the thoughts man. Keep up the good work and hop on cycle here pretty soon
neverstop
Well-known member
word blackjack, i started cycling before i hit my potential and it's funny because i've made more progress naturally now that i know my body and what i need so much more, than i did over my first few cycles AND i'm much bigger now then I was then. If i could go back and do it again I would have waited 2 years tweaking my diet and workout and messing with natty supps. probably would have got the same or better results without the damage and pain of PCT, etc.
you may think about trying IGF, i really feel like it helped "reset" my genetic/natural size and was very easy and surprisingly effective to use. just use 40-60mcg after workout maybe twice a week for 5 weeks, i think you'd really like it. gains are very easy to keep and you can lean out very nicely at the same time. GREAT for injuries also.
you may think about trying IGF, i really feel like it helped "reset" my genetic/natural size and was very easy and surprisingly effective to use. just use 40-60mcg after workout maybe twice a week for 5 weeks, i think you'd really like it. gains are very easy to keep and you can lean out very nicely at the same time. GREAT for injuries also.
Smiley
Member
When you say great for injuries can you explain a little bit more. I've had a TON of injuries just in the past year with joints/bones/muscles and have really been putting thought into this.