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NOW IM CONFUSED (PH'S)

boxrocker

boxrocker

Member
Alright now i'm confused, I have been taking AMMO products for about 5 weeks. I started with ALPHA MASS, which is 2 compunds, 2a, 17a di methyl eitocholan 3-one, 17b-ol 10mg, and 17a-Methyl-Eioallocholan-2-Ene-17b-Ol 15mg. I started with this with the with the impression that one compound was for dry lean hard gains and one was more for wet bulkier gains. I started this 5 weeks ago. The mg is per pill and i started with 2 a day, then recently to 3 to finish off. I was told to bridge, I think is the word, this with AMMO SUS LMG, Estra-4 9-Dien-3 17-Dione, 13 Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, which is for strength and hardness.

I am new to the forum and am not familiar with all of the abbriviations that you all use. I have been going back and forth on what the hell I am reall on compared to what you all take, ex. SD, or PP, M-drol, H-drol, so now i'm confused on what to do next?

I appreciate any help on this from someone who is experienced and kinda knows what compounds I am using and what they are comparable with. thanks.

Brad
 
boxrocker said:
Alright now i'm confused, I have been taking AMMO products for about 5 weeks. I started with ALPHA MASS, which is 2 compunds, 2a, 17a di methyl eitocholan 3-one, 17b-ol 10mg, and 17a-Methyl-Eioallocholan-2-Ene-17b-Ol 15mg. I started with this with the with the impression that one compound was for dry lean hard gains and one was more for wet bulkier gains. I started this 5 weeks ago. The mg is per pill and i started with 2 a day, then recently to 3 to finish off. I was told to bridge, I think is the word, this with AMMO SUS LMG, Estra-4 9-Dien-3 17-Dione, 13 Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, which is for strength and hardness.

I am new to the forum and am not familiar with all of the abbriviations that you all use. I have been going back and forth on what the hell I am reall on compared to what you all take, ex. SD, or PP, M-drol, H-drol, so now i'm confused on what to do next?

I appreciate any help on this from someone who is experienced and kinda knows what compounds I am using and what they are comparable with. thanks.

Brad
Click to expand...

SD=Superdrol(ex M-drol)
M-drol= ^^^
PP=Phera Plex
H-drol=Halo

What do do next?

You been on 2 oral steroids for 5 weeks, and you are bridging into another ****tail steroid?

What to do is stop, and run a PCT with a SERM....

and get educated on what you have just put your body through ^.^
 
boxrocker said:
Alright now i'm confused, I have been taking AMMO products for about 5 weeks. I started with ALPHA MASS, which is 2 compunds, 2a, 17a di methyl eitocholan 3-one, 17b-ol 10mg, and 17a-Methyl-Eioallocholan-2-Ene-17b-Ol 15mg. I started with this with the with the impression that one compound was for dry lean hard gains and one was more for wet bulkier gains. I started this 5 weeks ago. The mg is per pill and i started with 2 a day, then recently to 3 to finish off. I was told to bridge, I think is the word, this with AMMO SUS LMG, Estra-4 9-Dien-3 17-Dione, 13 Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, which is for strength and hardness.

I am new to the forum and am not familiar with all of the abbriviations that you all use. I have been going back and forth on what the hell I am reall on compared to what you all take, ex. SD, or PP, M-drol, H-drol, so now i'm confused on what to do next?

I appreciate any help on this from someone who is experienced and kinda knows what compounds I am using and what they are comparable with. thanks.

Brad
Click to expand...

you are using the following:

sd:2a, 17a di methyl eitocholan 3-one, 17b-ol- superdrol 10mg
pp: 17a-Methyl-Eioallocholan-2-Ene-17b-Ol-pheraplex 15mg

your bridge compounds:
Estra-4 ,9-Dien-3 17-Dione: commonly called "tren" due to its similarity in trenbolone. what it actually is, is a precursor (converts to) to a steroid called dienolone. similar to trenbolone in gains/sides. but still very mysterois and wierd steroid. chance of gyno with this is high.

13 Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2: max lmg, this is also sometimes associated with "tren" but it also is not trenbolone. it is a steroid, one I dont like, so dont know a whole lot about, it's big on giving people gyno. so I stay away.

on another note, I hope with this cycle you have a rock solid post cycle therapy.
one should neve, and I mean NEVER start a cycle without knowing everything they can possibly know about the compounds they are taking. it is stupid, and wreckless. dont bridge, just take the sd/pp stack you are taking, and stop there for a while. also, research.:twak:
 
Zero V said:
SD=Superdrol(ex M-drol)
M-drol= ^^^
PP=Phera Plex
H-drol=Halo

What do do next?

You been on 2 oral steroids for 5 weeks, and you are bridging into another ****tail steroid?

What to do is stop, and run a PCT with a SERM....

and get educated on what you have just put your body through ^.^
Click to expand...

yuuuuuuuuuuuuuup:banghead:
 
i didnt go inot this in the dark, I knew lmg was similar to Tren, and the APLHA more test like for bulk and strength, I had a PCT cycle in the works. Once i got here though, i started getting confused with all the different terminology. There just seems to be so many different avenues to go now. I was told by some personal trainers that this was common to do, compareable to Test and Decca coming of tail end with TREN, but in the legal form.
 
boxrocker said:
i didnt go inot this in the dark, I knew lmg was similar to Tren, and the APLHA more test like for bulk and strength, I had a PCT cycle in the works. Once i got here though, i started getting confused with all the different terminology. There just seems to be so many different avenues to go now. I was told by some personal trainers that this was common to do, compareable to Test and Decca coming of tail end with TREN, but in the legal form.
Click to expand...

5-6 weeks of 20-30mg of superdrol and 30-45 phera is not good in any way...To continue on into another set of roids, to shut you down harder? Since Tren is good at that, and superdrol is good at that.. I mean

Is your PCT hcg+(REAL)clomid+(REAL)nolva+PP's TRS stack +?????

I ask because if you bridge, it will be what 8-10 weeks of constant suppression with orals? Also add in your poor liver...

When you come off cycle, unless your PCT is stellar=to the pro's, your going to shrink like a balloon that never got tied closed after being blown up.

And those personal trainers need to be force to watch their ball sacks get slowly cut open with a razor blade from a pencil sharpener...Post use!
 
I actualy did the same stack and came off with PCT, and I didn't loose but about 5 pounds. I maintained a 210 lb weight all the way up to 5 weeks ago on just clean diet and protein. I now only am 218 since those 5 weeks. Need less to say, i am going to stop and start PCT. what about T-911, prime, and what type of clomid
 
Any type of clomid as long as it is legit (chemical name should say clomiphene or clomiphene citrate). 4 weeks 50/50/25/25 at the bare min. you also probably need an AI and/or natty test booster. Start the AI beginning of week 3 of PCT and taper down across 4 weeks.

EDIT: I would run the first week of clomid like this: 100/100/75/75/50/50/50
week 2: 50mg ED
week 3: 50mg ED or 25mg ED (depending on how you feel)
week 4: 25mg ED
 
boxrocker said:
I actualy did the same stack and came off with PCT, and I didn't loose but about 5 pounds. I maintained a 210 lb weight all the way up to 5 weeks ago on just clean diet and protein. I now only am 218 since those 5 weeks. Need less to say, i am going to stop and start PCT. what about T-911, prime, and what type of clomid
Click to expand...

so from 5-6 weeks of superdrol/phera you gained 8 lbs?

boxrocker said:
Is there a clomid that is legal?
Click to expand...

Short anwser, no.

Complicated answer, invest in a lab rat, and get some stuff to test on it.

Look around...Or talk to your personal trainer friends.
 
urbanski said:
you're going to need 2 bottles of clomid for the doses you're going to need
Click to expand...

if he can google or research where to find chemicals like clomid, they come in liquid form. usually a bottle of liquid clomid is 60mls at 50mg/ml. He wouldnt need 2 bottles.

As far as an AI, use your t-911 if you have it. Inhibit E will work, just low dose it. To much estro suppression=rebound. I personally have Formex for my upcoming cycle.
 
boxrocker said:
There is no other combination of PCT without using clomid that would be enough?
Click to expand...

Honestly if I was in your shoes, I would use Clomid AND nolva. Just to hit all teh bases, as well as the best test booster I could find, and some cortisol control to start later into the PCT.

A SERM in your PCT in this case is a NEED.
 
boxrocker said:
There is no other combination of PCT without using clomid that would be enough?
Click to expand...

come on dude, follow the italics in my previous post.

I'll lay out a PCT for you.

Clomid

Week 1: 100/100/75/75/50/50/50
Week 2: 50mg ED
Week 3: 50mg ED
Week 4: 25mg ED

AI

(I will be using Formex so I'll use that dosing protocol for you to get an idea)

Week 1: 0
Week 2: 0
Week 3: 75mg
Week 4: 50mg
Week 5: 50mg
Week 6: 25mg

Cort Control (DS Lean Xtreme)

Week 1: 0
Week 2: 0
Week 3-6: 3 caps ED

This is what I would do in your shoes. As well as having Nolva on hand for gyno control should it become an issue.
 
Zero V said:
I wouldn't claim that too much >.>
Click to expand...

Well I have been trying to gain stength not really focusing on size and at the same time doing more cardio, with each meal cutting carbs further into the day. I wanted to slowly shred while keeping size and stength, I use a lot of super sets, and I get really creative in my workouts! Once this PH thing came to me ove ra year ago, it has just gotten more ****ing complicated that i ever could have imagined. I wish I would have stuck with creatine, protein, and BUST YOUR ****IN ASS WORK OUTS!!!
 
ktatro1 said:
if he can google or research where to find chemicals like clomid, they come in liquid form. usually a bottle of liquid clomid is 60mls at 50mg/ml. He wouldnt need 2 bottles.

As far as an AI, use your t-911 if you have it. Inhibit E will work, just low dose it. To much estro suppression=rebound. I personally have Formex for my upcoming cycle.
Click to expand...

stuff i got was 25mg/ml, so yeah....2

guess i better find the 50 type next time.
 
boxrocker said:
Well I have been trying to gain stength not really focusing on size and at the same time doing more cardio, with each meal cutting carbs further into the day. I wanted to slowly shred while keeping size and stength, I use a lot of super sets, and I get really creative in my workouts! Once this PH thing came to me ove ra year ago, it has just gotten more ****ing complicated that i ever could have imagined. I wish I would have stuck with creatine, protein, and BUST YOUR ****IN ASS WORK OUTS!!!
Click to expand...

hould of researched more and taken more time to figure all this stuff out.. you jumped in too soon. My advise is stop the cycle and run pct. Then do enough research before jumping in again
 
At my size, weight, and bf%, already, your right I should have. I thought I was fairly knowledgable, but i was wrong. I have learned a **** load just from this post, though humbled in the process! I stepped out MY element (fundementals of working out, diet)
 
you know how they say everyones body reacts different, well by me trying PH's having half assed knowledge a bout them, I didn't suffer Gyno, or strength loss, or weight loss hardly at all. In turn I thought i was doing fine, maybe it was all the years of consistent, ph free working out that helped me keep almost permanent solid gains! I actually had blood work done in 2005, I was told I had an EXTREMLY higher testosterone level than average. All said, I appreciate the info, hopefully it keeps coming!

I would also like to tract my PCT.
 
Five weeks of SD and PP, SD 20mg and PP 30mg five days a week. I took weekends off because they are my off days. I did this without knowing I was kind of doing a pulse. A pulse is more like 3 or 4 times a week with more spacing between doses though right? as apposed to 5 stght days of dose. thus, I traced exactly when I started the tren was just 11 days ago. Though know knowing both shut you down and the total length (if I would have finshed) I would have never started the TREN.

My question is, say I didn't take the TREN for 11 days and finished the PP and SD at those mg's and just during the week m-f we's off, would that have still been too long, or too much dosage? Because I have seen people go up alot higher on both.

2. Is this considered a pulse?

3. Did the 11 days of TREN really **** me up that bad, or only if I would have finished it.

4. If this is still considered a pulse, m-f, would the 6 weeks at that dose been fine, and could I have shortened the length, uped the dosage, and bridged earlier, with something other that TREN?
 
boxrocker said:
Five weeks of SD and PP, SD 20mg and PP 30mg five days a week. I took weekends off because they are my off days. I did this without knowing I was kind of doing a pulse. A pulse is more like 3 or 4 times a week with more spacing between doses though right? as apposed to 5 stght days of dose. thus, I traced exactly when I started the tren was just 11 days ago. Though know knowing both shut you down and the total length (if I would have finshed) I would have never started the TREN.

My question is, say I didn't take the TREN for 11 days and finished the PP and SD at those mg's and just during the week m-f we's off, would that have still been too long, or too much dosage? Because I have seen people go up alot higher on both.

2. Is this considered a pulse?

3. Did the 11 days of TREN really **** me up that bad, or only if I would have finished it.

4. If this is still considered a pulse, m-f, would the 6 weeks at that dose been fine, and could I have shortened the length, uped the dosage, and bridged earlier, with something other that TREN?
Click to expand...

I would say its not a pulse at all, if anything it would have made your test levels and suppression really wacky in my eyes. Kinda like letting your body consider to start to recover and saying "PSYCH!" a bunch of times.

The tren will stink because the superdrol should pretty much already have you completely shut down. There wont be alot of the tren in your system, but the SD alone for that long is unique, when most people wont go past 3 weeks with it, and top out at 30mg as a max.

What was it you have cycled before and how long ago was it?

you cant base test levels today off a 4 year old report....

And even if they are good, something like this if not handled properly, can change that...
 
quote: What was it you have cycled before and how long ago was it?

you cant base test levels today off a 4 year old report....

And even if they are good, something like this if not handled properly, can change that

I stacked the SD clone without the PP and the same tren SUS LMG, but I used the whole 90 cap bottle. I know your gonna freak, but I used this cycle for a total of about10 weeks. I waited longer to do my so called Bridge, in hopes of making a 10 week cycle. this was finished around March.
 
5 weeks on SD and PP is a lot. It's probably 3 times more methyls than most people do on a cycle. Maybe you're a freak and can handle it, but most likely liver enzymes will be very high and more importantly HDL will suck hard.

Don't cycle any of this for 10 weeks.
 
boxrocker said:
I stacked the SD clone without the PP and the same tren SUS LMG, but I used the whole 90 cap bottle. I know your gonna freak, but I used this cycle for a total of about10 weeks. I waited longer to do my so called Bridge, in hopes of making a 10 week cycle. this was finished around March.
Click to expand...

Go to the doctors...
 
lol u took all 90 for a ten week cycle??? haha congrats on being alive other than that idk what to say def dont drink alcohol ever again u may wanna talk to your doctor about a liver enzyme test and liver and kidney function test as well.
 
Damn man I feel bad for you.
Post like these scare me.
It almost makes me not wish to run ph's.

Then again,
I wish I could get some legit pcts instead of stuff for my rats.
I'm stocking up on Ph's now and still have yet to run one.

Seems to me you went into this with your eyes closed.

You should just go to a doctor and explain what happened, get tests ran, and ask for some pcts then and there.
If that doctor won't do it go to a different clinic.

**** like this sucks.
 
boxrocker said:
what does this do, make sure all levels are norm?
Click to expand...

boxrocker said:
would you also suggest any liver protection along with my PCT or is that just used for on cycle?
Click to expand...

MurdahUDawg said:
Damn man I feel bad for you.
Post like these scare me.
It almost makes me not wish to run ph's.

Then again,
I wish I could get some legit pcts instead of stuff for my rats.
I'm stocking up on Ph's now and still have yet to run one.

Seems to me you went into this with your eyes closed.

You should just go to a doctor and explain what happened, get tests ran, and ask for some pcts then and there.
If that doctor won't do it go to a different clinic.

**** like this sucks.
Click to expand...

the doctor is not going to give him "pcts" likely. I lol, because it it sounds like an STD the way you phrased it. "He gave him pcts" :D

But just ask the doc for a full test to see your liver, and everything else. Also, you are going to want to get tested again in like 2 months, to see how recovery went.

Unless you are a genetic freak, God is by your side, and you are lucky as heck. Its gona be rough.

BTW the stuff your lab rats are using are just as good as giving them normal tab forms of the items. Your rats will experience the same effects.
 
you could say i went into it with my eyes closed, or just mislead. I should have been more careful, but I am kind of a genetic FREAK, I'll be fine. I have already started PCT and I always bounce back quick. This was only half of what I did last cycle, and I was fine. With in the first week of PCT my Libido was back for good. I am learning a lot though, health and MORE care for my body is needed for the long haul. I will keep digesting this information and use it to my freakish advantage in the future.
 
you should also start taking some heavy liver cleanse products as well. Unless your gear was completely bunk, that may explain why you were able to go so long on SD and PP......
 
boxrocker said:
you could say i went into it with my eyes closed, or just mislead. I should have been more careful, but I am kind of a genetic FREAK, I'll be fine. I have already started PCT and I always bounce back quick. This was only half of what I did last cycle, and I was fine. With in the first week of PCT my Libido was back for good. I am learning a lot though, health and MORE care for my body is needed for the long haul. I will keep digesting this information and use it to my freakish advantage in the future.
Click to expand...

Great to hear your learning and understanding it. Even a genetic freak is not impervious to everything!

ktatro1 said:
you should also start taking some heavy liver cleanse products as well. Unless your gear was completely bunk, that may explain why you were able to go so long on SD and PP......
Click to expand...

i never even hear of AMMO so...that might be possible, or really under dosed. Which in this case, is one of the few times it would be a good thing lol!

Sounds nice actually. A good flushing, plenty of liver care, leagues of water(instead of tons, haha!).

Still, if you dont check with a doc now, go in a month or two, when your PCT is done, and get a rundown of what is going on.
 
Lol I was half asleep when I wrote the last message "pcts" haha I meant SERMS

If his levels are out of whack, and he explains what happened.
That he didn't know he needed them and that what he actually was using unknowingly was a steriod.

Why wouldn't the doctor give him some clomid or nolva?

If he presents the information correctly.

I do not see it not working.

Hell they sell ph's at gnc and vitamin shoppe and do you think for one minute any of those reps tell people need SERMS?

So a doctor is going to deny the required treatment because of ????
 
you're assuming your general doc would know what PCT is let alone how to prescribe it.
i'd see an endocrinologist, and even then they'd be focused on known diseases and may never have encountered exogenous anabolic steroids and how to treat post-cycle. they may have. but an endo doc would be the best bet.

and if you went to your general doc and said hey give me 50mg clomid tablets, i'd bet most would just laugh. licenses are on the line.
 
urbanski said:
you're assuming your general doc would know what PCT is let alone how to prescribe it.
i'd see an endocrinologist, and even then they'd be focused on known diseases and may never have encountered exogenous anabolic steroids and how to treat post-cycle. they may have. but an endo doc would be the best bet.

and if you went to your general doc and said hey give me 50mg clomid tablets, i'd bet most would just laugh. licenses are on the line.
Click to expand...

Yes, and considering your asking a doctor to prescribe what is traditionally breast cancer medication to a young male....:paranoid:
 
boxrocker said:
you could say i went into it with my eyes closed, or just mislead. I should have been more careful, but I am kind of a genetic FREAK, I'll be fine. I have already started PCT and I always bounce back quick. This was only half of what I did last cycle, and I was fine. With in the first week of PCT my Libido was back for good. I am learning a lot though, health and MORE care for my body is needed for the long haul. I will keep digesting this information and use it to my freakish advantage in the future.
Click to expand...


Be careful with that outlook. I have many friends that where in weightlifting with me when i was younger and they all decided to take superdrol because the guy at GNC said it was good. None of them knew what a PCT was and at that time niether did I because i was all natural and didnt think i was ready for anything that sounded like a steroids (in retrospect thank god). They all took superdrol at the max doseage on the bottle (i dont know what this is i never really looked at it) and basicly cycled as long as they could as long as they could afford to buy it. Needless to say quite a few of my friends have now developed cirhosis of the liver, kidney failure and a variety of other problems associated with high doseage of orals and im quite certain all of them have very imbalanced hormone levels, they are all emotional rollercoasters now.

This brings me to my point. Unless you can down a handle of moonshine in an hour and just have a "buzz" chances are your liver is about normal. The human body is highly resiliant especially at young ages to any stress put on it and is most likely able to restart test production easier at younger ages (this is in no way supports PH and AAS useage in people under 21). The chances are the more that you abuse the body the slower and harder its going to be to recover. Please be careful in the future. I have had too many friends think that they are too tough or they are too smart or somehow the rules of PH and AAS dont apply to them and they have all had to eat their own words eventually. I dont mean to sound like a parent or anything but when i saw the line "but i am kind of a genetic freak" it sounded way too much like some of the kids i knew a while ago.
 
I didn't mean to come off like I wansn't concerned or that my body was immune to hazardous PH's in such, I was just saying that my body handels them a little better. At 27 I know i'm getting older and this is why I am concerned and want to take the right approach and learn everything I can. Just being a member here and posting these questions on this thread is true testement to that. Being that I get less sides and my Testosterone levels are high and bounce back quick is a disadvantage to me because it has caused me to be neglegent, and i'm lucky to have found such a good source of knowledgable people, like yourself, to help me for the future.!!
 
Well welcome to AM. I hope your PCt goes well. and please keep posting I cant tell you how much i have learned since being here.
 
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