New to Test E
- Thread starter jswole
- Start date
liftw8t
Member
really and what should the split be?
UKStrength
Guest
Yeah definitely go with twice per week mate, pinning isn't so bad after the first few shots, it just takes a few goes to find the 'sweet' locations for you (for me it's quads).
With regards to HCG, it will definitely help with recovery.
For a basic ten week cycle, start the HCG in Week 5 and shoot 250IUs, twice a week (e.g. Tuesday and Friday).
Continue to administer the HCG all the way up to Week 10, do not carry over into PCT.
lennoxchi
Well-known member
since PCT for Test-E does not start for 2 weeks after your last shot, cause of the ester not cleared from your body, how long would you want to use HCG for after the 10 weeks is up?
UKStrength
Guest
Apologies, this is what I meant ^^^^ your last shot is when PCT begins.
Marc-Antony
Member
Different schools of thinking.
samadhismiles
Member
You'll suppress natural recovery this way. Its counter-productive to shoot HCG while you're trying to regain natty test, since HCG will SPIKE your test and feedback inhibition will kick in. You want natural LH to increase NOT decrease (which is what temporarily happens after you shoot HCG which basically functions as LH in the testes).
MrBigPR
NutraPlanet Rep
Reps to you my friend.
Marc-Antony
Member
Controversial topic. Not everybody agrees on this type of protocol, even amongst pros, and you must be aware of the fact that the only medically documented PCT called for Nolva, Clomid and hcg.
Marc-Antony
Member
I agree, absolutly, I like hcg on cycle, on a Swale's type protocol, but I have had many discussions regarding some who like it during PCT, and if I am not mistaken Llewellyn, and Anthony Roberts both document PCTs calling for hcg, clomid, and Nolva.
Here is a quote:
"Some studies in humans have shown that HCG does not actually have a direct effect on inhibiting LH release in men (22)(23), but rather (probably) works to inhibit LH secretion indirectly, simply by stimulating the production of testosterone (thus activating the negative feedback loop). Another factor involved is the induction of testicular aromatase, which raises estrogen levels, again causing inhibition. Unfortunately, yet another process, the downregulation of the Leydig Cell LH receptor itself, seems to also play a role in high dose HCG testicular desensitization. This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) to testosterone (24). Nolvadex actually stops this blocking-action of HCG from taking place (25). Most likely, because of Nolvadex’s direct antiestrogenic effect and LH-upregulating effect on the Pituitary, suppression of gonadotropins via HCG is (25) almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex! So if we Use Nolvadex and we are only using HCG when we are low in gonadatropins, we won’t be inhibited by it at all."
UKStrength
Guest
:goodpost: You make a fair point mate.
I'd still vote for HcG on cycle, but is there room for HCG during PCT as well as on-cycle? Perhaps if you don't use clomid during PCT?
I'd still vote for HcG on cycle, but is there room for HCG during PCT as well as on-cycle? Perhaps if you don't use clomid during PCT?
Marc-Antony
Member
I am throwing it out here, you tell me how you feel about it.
First of all, if your blood work comes back with FSH, LH, Test levels in "physiological range" (for lack of a better term), I would say that you could discontinue hcg during the first week (rather than first day).
Now, someone with a more shutdown profile should probably concider adding hcg to post cycle protocol, and extend pct time to the point were weeks run with hcg = weeks without it.
This is just me throwing it out here, more like thinking out loud.
First of all, if your blood work comes back with FSH, LH, Test levels in "physiological range" (for lack of a better term), I would say that you could discontinue hcg during the first week (rather than first day).
Now, someone with a more shutdown profile should probably concider adding hcg to post cycle protocol, and extend pct time to the point were weeks run with hcg = weeks without it.
This is just me throwing it out here, more like thinking out loud.
samadhismiles
Member
do you freeze your HCG? Because I do. I think this halts any degradation you speak of. Then I bring out and reconstitute whatever I need for the week.
mooch2321
Well-known member
i misunderstood your first post....the hcg-clomid bridge is actually a great way to utilize hcg....i thought you were just talking about running clomid hcg together....the only thing id do different is run the clomid weeks 2-5 instead.....and your right hcg does start to degrade rather quickly once reconstituted....
what size vial are you getting that you can recon every week without wasting a lot....the smallest ive seen is a 2500iu amp....
samadhismiles
Member
I reconstitute 5000IU vials and then draw out individual insulin pins of them and then put them in fridge in a couple ziplocks. So its every few weeks I have to pull a HCG out freezer (which is lypholized).
mooch2321
Well-known member
organons website says that after reconstitution the peptide is active for 60 days....but ive noticed a definate difference after just a few weeks....i think it breaks down much quickert than they claim.....
snowbird
New member
Interesting. Would the protocol be different for someone that is already on TRT?