Cellardude
Well-known member
Im just wondering for those who have tried minoxidil. Which one would you say gave you the best results? It seems the higher dose concentrations are the better ones to use as I can see from what people are reporting.
Hair Loss Prevention
- Thread starter BigVrunga
- Start date
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Preg is a master hormone - which means the body can convert it into just about every OTHER hormone. I would need to see justification for it's use here.
Cellardude
Well-known member
the interaction with test and finastride is that they contradict each other. There's actually warnings of contradiction in clinical pharmacology.
Finastride prevents the conversion of DHT through 5AR inhibitor while testosterone when injected into the body turns into DHT. I guess you could say testosterone is the "pro hormone" to DHT as it does technically convert to it into the body. If you absolutely know that your balding, I wouldn't run a cycle of test. But if you insist anyway, you could probably prevent shedding/balding with the proper topicals like spiro/AA/minoxidil/ketoconozole.
I think that also depends on your genetics though. I can't say for sure as Im sure certian people out there start to shed/thin their hair in their early 20's due to natural causes. Using aggressive treatment of oral DHT inhibitors and topical DHT inhibitors would probably stop aggressive shedding, but Im sure you could still possibly see shedding. My advice, if you know your super proned to balding, don't do steroids. period.
wakerider
New member
thanks for the info I'm definitly shedding without the finasteride. I've been lifting on and off since I was about 16 but not consistently enough to make any good gains, now I'm 32 and been lifting for about 15 months without missing a week I've put on 10 pounds in that time but it should be more as hard as I've been working. what do you think of oxandrolone or maybe the ph hdrol? Would either of these be a good choice for mild sides even though they will most likely yield modest gains
Cellardude
Well-known member
have you noticed growth on it or just retention of hair?
jinxie
Well-known member
Actually finasteride doesn't negate testosterone, it merely reduces DHT conversion. As long as estradiol is controlled, the user of both may experience the benefits of testosterone, while reducing shedding. I believe there are posts on this board that discuss this issue, and the many users that are on both meds. Good luck.
Cellardude
Well-known member
I didn't say it was negated.
I simply said it was counter productive in a way. Finastride reduces gains/libido from testosterone. Using testosterone for those who are using finastride will increase shedding/balding.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
the official rogaine foam... buy at costco, saves quite a bit of $
jinxie
Well-known member
I agree that it's a balancing act, but you can get the benefits of both. If you wish to increase test levels while maintaining hair, being on both makes sense. If you already have low test, finasteride could wreak havoc on you, as it will reduce naturally bioavailable test, as a function of converting total test to estradiol.
Jarconis
Board Supporter
whats been the consensus, on how long that initial "finasteride shedding phase" lasts? When I started taking 2.5mg to combat the test I was on, I noticed I was losing a lot of the lil velus hairs, but not really my normal mature hairs, if that makes sense. This lasted for about 2 weeks or so, and now it kinda seems like everything is all quiet on the western front.
Cellardude
Well-known member
My experience, I started to shed on dbols + test. After the first week it started and it started to get worse. I noticed maybe 40-50 hairs in the shower alone before I started to treat it. I started full level 3 treatment and dropped the dbols. I only had ketoconozole 2% at that time and I was actually quite afraid to use it. The shampoo made my hair slippery and as a result I would actually see more hairs than if I didn't use it. It would also dry out my hair and make it thin and floppy looking, so It looked way worse than it actually was initially supposed to help.
I then decided after reading some stories on prevention > growth that I would go all out on hair prevention. As this thread is about hair loss prevention, not hair regrowth. :biglaugh:
Here was my stack:
500mg test and to combat that,
minoxidil+AA was my first attack. I used it for a few days as I was waiting for my other stuff to arrive in the mail. Then a few days later, my spirolactone 2% from Dr.lee came in. Then my finastride. I was on Minoxidil,AA,Spiro and finastride and I didn't see the amount of hair shed decrease. I DID notice that my front stopped shedding and this seemed to show a positive result when I introduced the spiro topically to the front sides which seemed to start thinning. The back of the head, as I kept applying minoxidil kept on shedding though. It was possibly due to the minoxidil as Ive heard people say that it has been proven to work on the top/back of the head, thus the shedding.The shedding for the front stopped though. This is probably due to the fact that the spiro helped but the minoxidil does not regrow front hair. Thus the lack of shedding up front. I started ramping up the fina dose. I took a shower with ketoconozole and the amount of hair shed was minor. Maybe 15-20 baby hairs that were already severely attacked by DHT. I see under 10 hairs shedding off each day, my computer desk isn't full of random hairs anymore and neither is my pillow/bed. Finastride 2.5 works, But I think it's too strong. I noticed bloat/strength loss as soon as I started playing and ramping up the fina dose. Hair is still shedding as it hasn't been 2 weeks yet, but I expect it to shed. As long as the amount that has been shedded is decreased, Im happy. Big thanks to BigV for this thread. Im sure it's helped a TON of people who were freaking out about hair loss and didn't know where to turn.
cynic
New member
I have seen some posts indicating that minoxidil does not work for recession in the temple areas...any truth to this? Also, I just got an AA/minox 5% combo (spray bottle - 4-5 sprays for a mL)...I'm assuming that I spray directly on the scalp. What is the most effective application of this combo in the liquid spray form? Thanks in advance.
Cellardude
Well-known member
I actually don't like the spray liquid. I ordered from the wholesale hair care place and although their spray bottle works fine, it's quite messy to apply. It's hard enough to see in the mirror where your spraying but to actually spray directly into the scalp and avoid spraying your hair is quite a challenge. If I were you I'd buy the dabber bottle from dr.lee and go with that. It work's much better IMO. The spirolactone 2% in the dabber bottle for some reason seemed more effective than the spirolactone 5% lotion. This is probably due to the fact that the spiro 2% is faster absorbing and also much easier to apply. Try the minoxidil on the dabber bottle, less mess, less drip, more hair IMO.
I absolutely hated spraying the solution in my hair to cover a certian area and only to have a huge chunk of it drip off my head. Dabber = less waste more hair. :thumbsup:
I also noticed when applying to the crown area vs the front/temple of the head, that the crown would shed. It stopped/slowed down after awhile. I added retonic acid and it started to shed like crazy agian. I actually see like little dried up blood spots since I started the retonic acid on my head. It seems to be a STRONG chemical peel. Either that or im applying too much. If I were you, I would order some spirolactone 2% from dr.lee. I don't think minoxidil helps much in regrowing the front hairs but something like spirolactone sure could prevent too much buildup of DHT from attacking the hair.
Tom 185
Well-known member
hairsupport.com
thoughts?
i went to a microscopic hair transplant surgeon for a consultation and he strongly recommended this product to help keep the hair i have (thinning but no one can tell but myself). he said not to worry about the surgery for a few years until my scalp is visible...
thoughts?
i went to a microscopic hair transplant surgeon for a consultation and he strongly recommended this product to help keep the hair i have (thinning but no one can tell but myself). he said not to worry about the surgery for a few years until my scalp is visible...
Cellardude
Well-known member
looks like a scam to me.
Only reason being is that they don't tell you what's in the products. I don't see any science talk, just a lot of claim. Also frictionless pillows sounds like a good idea, but if your losing hairs due to your pillow, they were probably going to come out anyway with your hand or fall off on it's own.
THey may be decent at preventing bed head. I know when I get bed head, It looks like I have a bald spot in that area in which the hair has been lifted or bent in a certian way. It seems okay, but then agian there doesn't seem to be much talk on what's in the products.
You have to remember, in a day and age where vanity rules the world, people care about their appearance. Im too fat, Im losing my hair. There isn't a cure for fat people getting skinny overnight and there really hasn't been that many great or successful products for growing/stopping hair loss. The market is huge for a quick fix product, that promises you X,Y,Z. Because there will always be people looking to stop their hair from falling out and getting skinny/healthy/buff or w/e there will always be people trying to profit. Just keep that in mind. Can't knock the product until you know what's in it, but in this case, they don't tell you whats in it. You'll have to just "try" it to find out if you got ripped off or not.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Frictionless Pillows? As Cellardude said - your pillow isnt causing your hair to fall out...unless that pillow automagically reduces androgen activity in your scalp its a laughable ploy to get your money.
Out of curiosity - how many of you are using LLLT? (laser brush,etc) I'd be interested to hear about your results (or lack thereof). Along with minoxidil and finasteride its the only hair regrowth treatment approved by the FDA.
This year I am going to build a full-on laser helmet.
Cellardude
Well-known member
let me know how that goess bigV. Frictionless pillow is a scheme to get your money. If your hair is going to fall off, a frictionless pillow may make you a bit more eased when you sleep, but it will probably fall out if you shower in the morning, or blow away in the wind when your going to work. Save the 20 bucks and buy yourself some minoxidil. I'm actually a little sad I didn't buy minoxidil at my pharmacy. We got 30% off one day as a special employee's discount. I think it woulda been like 35 bucks for 3 months worth of minoxidil generic :[
FitModel
Active member
two questions:
1) what's the verdict on Revita shampoo, is it effective at all?
2) most of my thinning in in my frontal sides (receding hairline type thinning)...I've used Minoxidil 5%/Azelaic Acid 5% on my last cycle, and I didn't really notice anything. I understand Minidoxile doesn't help with frontal/side balding and it has to be used forever, I was more interested in the Azelaic Acid stopping the INCREASED hair loss being caused from being on a cycle.
SO will 5% AA help hairloss while on a cycle in my frontal-side region? and Will using it regularly benefit me at all, or is only using while on cycle sufficient?
(i'm sure these questions have been answer in this thread but I already scanned thought quite a few pages and didn't find them yet. sorry)
1) what's the verdict on Revita shampoo, is it effective at all?
2) most of my thinning in in my frontal sides (receding hairline type thinning)...I've used Minoxidil 5%/Azelaic Acid 5% on my last cycle, and I didn't really notice anything. I understand Minidoxile doesn't help with frontal/side balding and it has to be used forever, I was more interested in the Azelaic Acid stopping the INCREASED hair loss being caused from being on a cycle.
SO will 5% AA help hairloss while on a cycle in my frontal-side region? and Will using it regularly benefit me at all, or is only using while on cycle sufficient?
(i'm sure these questions have been answer in this thread but I already scanned thought quite a few pages and didn't find them yet. sorry)
FitModel
Active member
then I believe rogain (Minoxidil) will be ineffective)...I'm not sure about AA...
orals would work, but u have to take them consistently forever
and some side effects might occur.
Dyou
Member
then I believe rogain (Minoxidil) will be ineffective)...I'm not sure about AA...
orals would work, but u have to take them consistently forever
what would be best for receeding hairline regrowth? (if possible)
FitModel
Active member
I'm really not sure...I'm wondering the same thing...
Obviously the best method would be transplants...the other products only cause growth in the top/back regions and can stop any further thinning, but not regrow front/temple region hair...and all those regrowth formulas have to be done forever or the regrown hair will quickly diminish. That's why I'm more concerned with just stopping existing thinning with AA (if that's possible)
Cellardude
Well-known member
Spirolactone helps to HOLD the receding hairline in the front. I used the topical lotion and solution with great success. I think a hair transplant might be for you if your looking to stop receding hairline. The hairs that are generally taken from the transplant are from the rear of your head.
Try this experiment at home. Take a teaser, pluck a hair from the back of your head and then pluck one from the top. If your "exposed" to the genetic hair loss gene the one from the back should be thicker, glossier and stronger in appearance as the one you pulled from the top may look a bit thin compared to the other hair.
The DHT usually attacks the top of the hairline as well as the front, so needless to say if you want to fully prevent and restore your hairline in the front a hair transplant will ensure that if you run gears agian, the front hairline should hold MUCH stronger than before. In fact, Im not 100% positive but I don't think the front hairs would be affected at all if you had a hair transplant. You would just need propecia/minoxidil to help regrow hair in the back and to maintain what you have.
Hair loss prevention is much easier than regrowth. At least in terms of success rate. Try some topical spirolactone if your on cycle and you may see the difference in how much better your hairs hold out. This is probably the best method that I can recommend as hair growth although possible, doesn't enable you to grow a set of hair that will change you from going balding to stud.
Hope that helps.
Cellardude
Well-known member
Go for the spirolactone instead. Try the one from Dr.Lee. As long as you don't get any minoxidil on the dabber bottle, there will be no smell. If you do get minoxidil on the spiro dabber bottle top, be prepared to smell like rotten eggs for like 2 hours.
When I started the spirolactone, I immediately noticed the hairline holding in better. It even looks a bit fuller now. I did some test+dbol for the very first time and I noticed some insane shedding going on. Hairs would fall out just by touching my hair and some would fall out for no reason, there was hair everywhere and the front hairline was starting to look a bit weird/thin. I immediately searched this thread up and thanks to BigV I got on the full hairloss prevention stack. (I haven't done the laser brush yet)
Needless to say, Im still on the test at 500mg and my hairline although does shed is still holding up very nicely. The front region especially where I apply an ample amount of spiro/minoxidil/AA. Try the spiro 2x a day and let me know how it goes for you. I noticed a pretty neat difference.
I noticed that my hair receded a bit within a week of not having my hair stack, and as soon as I bought it, it's been holding in strong. Good luck Hope that helps.
Cellardude
Well-known member
I doubt something like this is factored in by amount. I'm sure there's more to it than just simple math. Try it to see. I personally think 2-3 mg is fine on 500mg as long as your finastride is legit.
With that being said, the research chem grade finastride is crap.
I ordered some stuff from inhousedrugstore.com, which was recommended by someone on like page 10 or so.
The proscar/finscar is 30 bucks for 30 tablets with free shipping.
I also forgot to mention it's pharmaceutical grade generic from Cipla, which is based in India.
The packaging may look different but the goods are solid
BigVrunga
Well-known member
I doubt something like this is factored in by amount. I'm sure there's more to it than just simple math. Try it to see. I personally think 2-3 mg is fine on 500mg as long as your finastride is legit.
With that being said, the research chem grade finastride is crap.
I ordered some stuff from inhousedrugstore.com, which was recommended by someone on like page 10 or so.
The proscar/finscar is 30 bucks for 30 tablets with free shipping.
I also forgot to mention it's pharmaceutical grade generic from Cipla, which is based in India.
The packaging may look different but the goods are solid
Minoxidil *can* be effective regrowing hair on the front of the head, especially in combination with finasteride.
Cellardude
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
You need to be a patient of dr.lee though. Don't worry it's quite easy. Email [email protected]
They'll send you the patient consultation form which you print and fill out as if you were at the doctors office. Mail it off, and Dr.lee will respond to the consultation with any questions you might have. It's worth it in my opinion. You need to have a consultation before you order which will cost you 10 bucks. After the one time fee, your all set to order and you can email dr.lee if you have any other further questions. He's extremely helpful in helping you answer your questions.
I wouldn't say use spiro over minoxidil/AA but if your worried about using minoxidil for life, spiro will help hold the hair you have. I would still use the mino/AA with the spiro though.
The way you apply the solution can possibly leave a smell. For me I bought a dabber bottle to make applying the minoxodil much easier, more effective and to a larger area in which I can control.
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The sprayer bottle wasnt doing it for me, It was so hard to aim at your "balding spots"
If I were you, id get the spiro lotion. Using that with minoxidil never produced a smell. The only thing I noticed that smelled was if I used the dabber bottle of minoxodil and then used the 2% spiro. The mixture of the two compounds causes a smell.
Dr.lee will explain if you consult him. Just make sure you apply one of the compounds first then let it dry. I would apply spiro then wait 5 minutes and use the minoxidil.
You need to be a patient of dr.lee though. Don't worry it's quite easy. Email [email protected]
They'll send you the patient consultation form which you print and fill out as if you were at the doctors office. Mail it off, and Dr.lee will respond to the consultation with any questions you might have. It's worth it in my opinion. You need to have a consultation before you order which will cost you 10 bucks. After the one time fee, your all set to order and you can email dr.lee if you have any other further questions. He's extremely helpful in helping you answer your questions.
I wouldn't say use spiro over minoxidil/AA but if your worried about using minoxidil for life, spiro will help hold the hair you have. I would still use the mino/AA with the spiro though.
The way you apply the solution can possibly leave a smell. For me I bought a dabber bottle to make applying the minoxodil much easier, more effective and to a larger area in which I can control.
Invalid Link Removed
The sprayer bottle wasnt doing it for me, It was so hard to aim at your "balding spots"
If I were you, id get the spiro lotion. Using that with minoxidil never produced a smell. The only thing I noticed that smelled was if I used the dabber bottle of minoxodil and then used the 2% spiro. The mixture of the two compounds causes a smell.
Dr.lee will explain if you consult him. Just make sure you apply one of the compounds first then let it dry. I would apply spiro then wait 5 minutes and use the minoxidil.
jinxie
Well-known member
Fellas, I've been taking Finasteride, 1 mg, for about 6-8 weeks now, and I can't really tell whether it's working. I no longer see hair in the bathtub. (That said, I thought that you usually shed more after commencing treatment, as the baby hair is replaced by fuller, coarser hair.) But I don't really see regrowth either. Note, I have intentionally spread the hair at the crown to reveal the hair thinning -- if I comb forward, you can't see much loss.
Also, I don't know if you can see it in this photo, but my scalp is pretty red. A dermo dxed dermatitis and gave me a foaming cortisone cream. I use it daily, at the same time as Rogaine, but I still get sores and often feel like there is inflammation on my head. I suppose it's possible that the rogaine is causing some irritation.
On a final note, can someone give me some feedback on whether this is the kind of MPB that, when caught at this juncture, can be successfully resisted/treated such that my crown is again fuller. Note, I am on HRT, with T and FT levels in the 75ish%. Five years ago, I had friends telling me it looked like I would never lose my hair, and my maternal GF had a full head at 83. I guess I should be glad to have what I have at 38, but adjusting to change is relative. And I'd rather have less hair and the testosterone of a man in his 30s, rather than a man in his 80s (secondary hypogonadal), as was the case before.
Thanks immensely for any feedback/suggestions.
J
Attachments
FitModel
Active member
I think for my next cycle h'm going to go with:
Revita Shampoo (daily). Minoxidil5%/AA5% (2x daily)
we'll see how this works...this time I'm doing dbol and test e. the only time I've noticed a LOT of shedding off of was Havoc. so hopefully this precautionary treatment will save my hair for now
Revita Shampoo (daily). Minoxidil5%/AA5% (2x daily)
we'll see how this works...this time I'm doing dbol and test e. the only time I've noticed a LOT of shedding off of was Havoc. so hopefully this precautionary treatment will save my hair for now
Cellardude
Well-known member
It takes about 6 months to notice a difference with finastride. Keep at it until you see a difference. The growth may or may not be significant. It depends on the individual on how much growth will occur. It's hard to say as hair prevention is really the key. Hair growth although very possible is quite hard to do. If it does happen, I don't think the results will be mind blowing.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Everyone is different, but in general finasteride isnt a hair growth 'stimulant', it keeps it from falling out by inhibiting testosterone's conversion to DHT. IMO, finasteride should be combined with a growth agent like minoxidil or LLLT (or both)
jinxie
Well-known member
Am I crying over spilled milk, or is this significant hair loss at the crown. Maybe this is just typical, and I am looking at it with an overly discerning eye? How much is a decent LLLT?
Cellardude
Well-known member
you can make one yourself. The ones you buy are like 300 bucks for the cheapest ones I think. It's also like propecia, cheap to make but because of the "innovation" it cost a lot more. Plus if something works, most men will pay that price, especially for their hair. :laugh:
I think bigv said it cost about 60 bucks to make one of your own.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
As far as I know, SawPalmetto has been shown to be as effective as finasteride for the treatment of BPH (enlarged prostate). There havent been any 'approved' studies to prove its efficacy for hairloss treatment, but some assume that finasteride and saw palmetto work through the same pathway. Anecdotal reports claim it is effective for controlling hair loss.
Effective dose? No idea - you'll need to do some research and some self experimentation.
Yeah, its really pretty easy...pick up 650nm, 5mw, 3v laser diodes off ebay with the brass casings. They're like $25 for 6 of them. Get a nice brush with a wooden handle, and drill holes in it about the same size as the diode shells. Wrap electrical tape around the lasers so that they pressure fit in the holes. Wire them all up in parallel (all black wires together, all red wires together. Go to Rite Aid and get one of those selectable wall wart power supplies for like $13 - the ones with the different attachments.
Pick an attachment with connections you wont need, clip the end off. Wire all the red leads to the positive lead, and all the black leads to the negative lead. Solder it all up for safety, wrap the connections with electrical tape.
Set the PSU on 3V and plug it in. Check the polarity switch if the diodes don't come on.
That's pretty much all there is to it!
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Outstanding post!
FlawedGrunt
Well-known member
So really on cycle we should run finasteride to keep the hair we have already?
I ask cause i see alot of guys losing hair from epi/havoc and im about to run a epi cycle in the near future... as of the last few years i can see receeding hairlines... but i dont want to lose anymore yet!
Cellardude
Well-known member
if you already know you lose hair, do NOT RUN epi if you want to keep your hair.
finastride is a 5-AR inhibitor It does not directly prevent hair loss.
We all know that DHT plays some responsible role in hair loss. Although it is still unsure how exactly the mechanics of this works, 5 alpha reductase inhibitors stop DHT of a certain kind so to speak from binding to the hair follicles.
You see, testosterone is a prohormone to DHT. If you only had tesosterone flowing in you without any rate of conversion, from test to DHT you wouldn't grow as much as some test users claim. Heck it would probably be a bit off from natty growth.
Anyhow, there are different methods of DHT that are still unknown. The one that is known is the conversion from testosterone to DHT. Finastride will to an extent I believe stop conversion or "inhibit" the 5 alpha reductase which is responsible for the conversion. This in result means less DHT in the body and less shedding.
What's also kinda fascinating is that there are different genetics for hairloss. Some people can have a crapload of DHT flowing in their body without hairloss while others cannot. If you are shedding/receding havoc/epi will run havoc on your hair. :lol:
If you don't trust me try it for 5 weeks on 40mg. Youll probably notice 1/3rd of the hair on your head gone.
Different people have different sensitivities. If you want to incorperate finastride to prevent hairloss run it with test. Some people will notice less shedding, some will notice no shedding. It really depends on the individual.
Good luck and DONT RUN EPI and finastride, it will be a waste of finastride and you will STILL lose hair!
FlawedGrunt
Well-known member
Thanks for the info... Well im not 100% positive ive lost hair... i just kinda feel like the "indents on the side of my head (under the bangs on the side) got deeper" But i never lost hair while on m1t?
And i dont really have a history of hairloss in my family
And i dont really have a history of hairloss in my family
Cellardude
Well-known member
neither do i, but i seem to be extremely sensitive to dbol shedding, epi and test.
My dad has full hair, my mom's dad has full hair, and yet i kinda get the screwy gene. Run some spirolactone 2% from dr.lee and some minoxidil if you feel the hairline is receding. I actually noticed growth in the front a few weeks ago. The receding hairline was a weird look. there was hair there, but that area just started to shed, not really recede. I could tell because the type of haircut I have would have let me know where the hair came from, really short = side/back of head. Long hair was top where the swirl is supposed to be and then the semi long ones are near the front.
It actually filled in and started sprouting little hairs past my hairline in the front.
Just make sure you OD on the minoxidil. Im not sure if it causes a better result, all i know is it's working for me.
JBerto
Active member
Totally agree.
There are a lot of PHs, so if you're concerned about hairloss try any other PH, not Epi/Havoc
Good PHs very mild on hair are 1,4AD (Bold) and HDrol. Formestane (Formex, etc.) is a mild androgen too, so using it ON cycle can "boost" the gains of a PH without rise the risks of hairloss.
Bold + HDrol + Formestane would be a good and safe cycle (and you could add finasteride and minox to be safe)
triggerhappy
New member
i'm likely to be starting (hopefully HRT) in may. at this stage i'm not sure what the doctor will suggest i take, but i have read that androgel increases DHT which for hairloss is a bad thing so i'm going to push for test cyp, anyway to get to the point i have read, think it was an article by dr chrysler that finistride should not be taken with HRT. this poses a problem cos i would like to start both, did you take it on yourself to start finastride or was it the docs? did you have any shed?
Cellardude
Well-known member
people usually do HRT because they feel like crap due to low test levels. If thats the case, finastride is kinda stupid to take. A reduction in DHT can very well make you feel like crap. It depends on the person. Kinda pointless to be on HRT in that case don't you think?