IBE Formex vs iForce Reversitol for epi ptc
- Thread starter qwerty33
- Start date
Delita420
Active member
Reversitol is a neat product, as it contains numerous things. I have tried it in the past and enjoyed it much more than Novedex XT. Furthermore, I've also tried 6-bromo (Hyperdrol X2) and enjoyed that more than the Reversitol. From my experience, I've concluded that ATD is not my favorite compound... Despite it being extremely effective as an AI, it is an anti androgen and makes me feel like sh*t. Novedex XT is pure ATD, whereas Reversitol is only some ATD, and the Hyperdrol X2 contains no ATD. I'd say: Stay away from ATD, pick up some 6-bromo or try the new Formex (which sounds very promising).
qwerty33
Well-known member
i have and from reading alot of logs and threads its either light novla which i want to avoid or takeing Reversitol. formex i havent read that much on i was just wondering how effective it is compared to other products.
delita what would you rec for a ptc for epi then since it has anti-e proprieties?
delita what would you rec for a ptc for epi then since it has anti-e proprieties?
Delita420
Active member
I used herbal test boosters when I pulsed Havoc (Epithio compound). I stacked Stoked and Life Support (both by Anabolic Innovations). I used it all at the same time as my Havoc and continued to use the herbal boosters after my Havoc was gone.
Please note that my Havoc cycle was actually a pulse. I dosed 2-3 caps 2 hours prior to hitting the weights @ 3 times a week. This means I worked out at least a couple more days without Havoc every week. Use the herbal test boosters every day, even when you don't work out.
Please note that my Havoc cycle was actually a pulse. I dosed 2-3 caps 2 hours prior to hitting the weights @ 3 times a week. This means I worked out at least a couple more days without Havoc every week. Use the herbal test boosters every day, even when you don't work out.
Problem
Member
AI's ALONE has no place in PCT.
IMO,
But 6-bromo is known to decrease estrogen and alot of blood work were there to prove it, so reveristol ingredients in proven to work. When formex.... well, i still need to see blood work post cycle to know that this stuff works regardless of the reps/company say.
IMO,
But 6-bromo is known to decrease estrogen and alot of blood work were there to prove it, so reveristol ingredients in proven to work. When formex.... well, i still need to see blood work post cycle to know that this stuff works regardless of the reps/company say.
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Care to expand why you think AI's have no place in PCT?
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Formex. It is a bioavailable form of Formestane. You do not want to be taking ATD in your PCT, which is in a lot of PCT products.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I am assuming he means you don't want to solely rely on an AI, hence the "alone"
Delita420
Active member
Yes!
Problem
Member
Problem
Member
i personally love ATD. I doubt 5mg in reversitol will have any anti androgen activity.
Delita420
Active member
6-Etioallochol-1,4-Diene-3,17-Dione?
Delita420
Active member
Estrogen Modulation Matrix (EMM) 124mg *
6-Bromoandrostenedione
6-Etioallochol-1,4-Diene-3,17-Dione
Indole-3-Carbinol (L3C)
Where on the label does it state the individual amounts for the ingredients? I don't see a 5mg listing anywhere...
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Correct
Problem
Member
According to the reps, it's 5mg or a "low dose" but I'll never use a prop blend, i wanna know what i'm taking.
Delita420
Active member
Estrogenic activity promotes gyno, whereas androgenic activity decreases chances of gyno flare ups. Therefore, using ATD can promote gyno through its anti-androgenic properties.
Delita420
Active member
This is why everyone is so excited about the new Formex...
Problem
Member
What? ATD is 1st an aromatize inhibiter, and has a SLIGHT anti androgenic activity.
It will never aggravate gyno. How does androgenic activities decreases chances of gyno?
Delita420
Active member
Androgen is the generic term for any natural or synthetic compound, usually a steroid hormone, that stimulates or controls the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics in vertebrates by binding to androgen receptors. This includes the activity of the accessory male sex organs and development of male secondary sex characteristics.
Anti-androgens do the opposite... You want me to ask God why he made us the way he did?
Problem
Member
I never asked you what androgen means, re read my question. But anyway,
great copy and paste. Now i know that you don't know what you talking about, just like i thought.
ATD has anti androgenic activity at the hypothalamus, that's why it is a great AI, it reduces estrogen and at the same time tricks the Hypo that there's not enough test.
ATD is an AR antagonist, so it does compete with test on the AR, but in HIGH DOSES and long period of times, using it for 2-3 weeks to kickstart the HPTA again will not lead to any negative effects, done that, been there with great success.. I'd advice you to research other than following what others say, but you'd prolly give me more attitude.
No need to use attitude in a discussion. :28:
Delita420
Active member
I never asked you what androgen means, re read my question. But anyway,
great copy and paste. Now i know that you don't know what you talking about, just like i thought.
ATD has anti androgenic activity at the hypothalamus, that's why it is a great AI, it reduces estrogen and at the same time tricks the Hypo that there's not enough test.
ATD is an AR antagonist, so it does compete with test on the AR, but in HIGH DOSES and long period of times, using it for 2-3 weeks to kickstart the HPTA again will not lead to any negative effects, done that, been there with great success.. I'd advice you to research other than following what others say, but you'd prolly give me more attitude.
No need to use attitude in a discussion. :28:
Your information is circumstantial and of an indirect nature which implies the existence of the main fact in question but does not in itself prove it. That is, the existence of the main fact is deduced from the indirect or circumstantial evidence by a process of probable reasoning.
Problem
Member
Untill you prove me wrong, you shouldn't go around saying ATD is bad or aggravate gyno.
Delita420
Active member
What I've proven is that there are better AIs than ATD...
Problem
Member
You proved nothing till now, you only proved your lack of knowledge.
All you did here is:
1.Posting stuff without any reasoning behind it.
2.attiude.
3.Posting stuff that yourself is wondering what they mean.
finally, lol @ anti androgen
I'm done arguing with you, i feel like my IQ just dropped. :wave2:
Delita420
Active member
Now you just need your balls to drop... :footinmouth:
LAGear
Active member
Good question. I want to know too.
Delita420
Active member
All AIs work the same way: Aromatase inhibitors work by inhibiting the action of the enzyme aromatase, which converts androgens into estrogens by a process called aromatization.
It should be noted that each type of AI can have special properties, negative and/or positive. Which is why some AIs are better than the others.
It should be noted that each type of AI can have special properties, negative and/or positive. Which is why some AIs are better than the others.
Problem
Member
Formex (formestane) is a class 1 AI, it is similar to ATD, it binds to the aromatize enzyme and does not let go. In other words suicidal. Both ATD and formex can convert into an androgen to compete at the AR. The trick here is taking a dose that is low and raise test without supressing it.
If IBE corrected formestane bioavaibility, this porduct is the best ever made on the market IMO.
I'd do this:
PCS recommened dosage
Formex 50/50/25/25
LAGear
Active member
I was going to use Formex for my h-drol cycle and I really don't care about libido. For a few weeks I can live with whatever libido I get. What I care about is test production, atrophy and most importantly gyno prevention.
How is Formex doing in those areas for the people who are logging?
Thanks!
LAGear
Active member
Does your dosage assume there's no SERM?
When using a SERM don't most people recommend ramping the SERM down and ramping the AI up?
Problem
Member
There's no right answer for PCT, everyone does it differently, and everyone thinks their protocol is right, you can't blame them.
H-drol is mild, and formex works wonders, again if they corrected it's bioavability.
I just answered his question about formex and the dosing, but i would use a SERM and an AI at a low dose with ANY DS.
Delita420
Active member
Buying bulk Formestane and making your own Trans-Dermal lotion with Penetrate.
LAGear
Active member
Nolva and Reversitol are fine together.
Would someone please comment on the dosages though? I'm interested in this as well. Also, I've read in a number of places that you should ramp the SERM down while ramping the AI up during PCT. Is this good or bad advice?
Reversitol is an AI which by most accounts is counterproductive with Havoc. This is not based on my experience, it's based on what I read while researching Havoc/Epi.
LAGear
Active member
You can do OTC PCT + SERM or you can do OTC PCT without SERM. But conventional wisdom is no AI for Havoc/Epi.
BurghHardcore
Well-known member
Why no AI w/ Epi/Havoc? Maybe a low dose, or a dose that is tapered up after the first week then maybe after the 3rd week tapered back down? I've heard that is a fair chance of estro rebound w/ Epi/havoc. Is this correct or was I misinformed?
LAGear
Active member
An AI is an aromatase inhibitor. Epi doesn't aromatize so there's no need for it.
Some people use an AI in PCT instead of using a serm even for things that don't aromatize but in my opinion you should always use a serm.
There is this really weird philosophy which is prevalent on this website (I believe due to very active reps who post here) that for some reason OTC PCT is somehow better or more desirable than using a serm. This philosophy does not exist on other websites with less rep activity.
I've yet to hear a rational reason why it's better to go OTC "with a serm on hand just in case" instead of just using the serm to begin with. The only LOGICAL reasons for not using a serm are if you can't get one or you are uncomfortable with research chems. If you live in the U.S. neither of these things should apply.
And if you don't mind spending a little more for your serm you really should use torem rather than nolva or clomid.
Yes, there is definitely a risk of gyno from epi but an AI can actually increase the risk of gyno if you aren't careful. Plus AI's can cause hair loss, increse cholesterol, etc. Some people experience side effects with serms too, but as far as side effects go torem is very mild.