Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

  • Thread starter Thread starter lutherblsstt
  • Start date Start date
Luther,

In your infinite wisdom you have failed to figure out that if I blocked your IP, you wouldn't be able to post under any user name nor would I allow you to register again nor could you because the browser cookie (not IP) nor would I neg someone that has been banned or IP blocked (what would be the point). Given that we do have a new homepage and that we are working on the board (as the skin has changed as you can clearly see), it might be the reason for your difficulties as well as the other 800 people that were having problems (members, not guests because of previously said cookie info) but thanks for the accusation! I see your logic and deductive reasoning have taken a vacation once again.

Invalid Link Removed

The neg was for the previous comment as I do believe you could do better.

"Thank you sir may I have another?" Why yes Luther, you may.
 
Luther,

In your infinite wisdom you have failed to figure out that if I blocked your IP, you wouldn't be able to post under any user name nor would I allow you to register again nor could you because the browser cookie (not IP) nor would I neg someone that has been banned or IP blocked (what would be the point). Given that we do have a new homepage and that we are working on the board (as the skin has changed as you can clearly see), it might be the reason for your difficulties as well as the other 800 people that were having problems (members, not guests because of previously said cookie info) but thanks for the accusation! I see your logic and deductive reasoning have taken a vacation once again.

Invalid Link Removed

The neg was for the previous comment as I do believe you could do better.

"Thank you sir may I have another?" Why yes Luther, you may.

My mistake,however with the use of anonymizers anything is possible.
 
What some IDF soldiers report is in line what many helpers (foreing born, not palestinian) reported - that this war was aimed mainly at civilians, to make them pay for whatever Hamas does or doesn't.

Israel did achieve two things: it inflicted more hatred than ever in the hearts those witnessing its brutal assault on any form of dignity and it actually strenghtened Hamas, if you define "strengthened" as an organization getting more consolation in the territory it operates in.

Thanks in large part to the Mearsheimer-Walt book and Chas Freeman Invalid Link Removedtelling the world how the Israel / Likud lobby functions, more and more people in the U.S. might wake up and realize that America's uncritical support of Israel is a burden to its security.

One gets the feeling that the middle-east policy is really formulated in the Knesset, not in the White house.

Do you guys remember who Condi Rice had to backpedal on support of a UN resolution she herself actively co-formulated? Why was this - read Invalid Link Removed

Btw, I am fully aware of the fact that there some real anti-semites who jump on every stone thrown in palestine to badmouth jewry in general, but this cannot mean this topic should be tabooed.

What I find incredible is that even the most basic foundation of the "peace process", the stop of settlements, does not take place. Back in the early 90s, Bush senior actually threatened to freeze loans to Israel if they were abused for the illegal settlements.

Will any american president ever have this courage again? The imbecile Dubya Bush certainly was the best thing to happen to the heavily pro-Likud Neocons, let's see how Obama will fare.
 
How else would you explain that the entire US population thinks Israel always owned that land?

That is a weaker argument than even luther puts forth, as you have no data to back it up at all.

How else would you explain that more than 55% of Obama voters got wrong which politcal party held a majority in congress other than them being idiots?
 
My mistake,however with the use of anonymizers anything is possible.

Its not as anonymous as you think, especially web based proxies that still pass on info that allow proxy to real ip conversion tools to function.
 
For those willing to spend a little time - this is a great piece, now almost 7 years old, on one of the influential "think tanks" (the most influential is certainly the AEI, the "American Enterprise Institue"), that are funded mainly by right-wing jews, employ mainly right-wing jews and have been very successful in hammering into the imbecile who occupied the White House from 2000 to 2008 that everyone who opposes US-backed territorial expansion by Israel is a terrorist:

Invalid Link Removed

What terrifies me most is how many Americans seem to swallow the "Israel has to defend herself" lie without looking seriously into what zionism stands for, what the Likud party stands for, and how Palestinians are treated like blacks were in South-africa during the apartheid days, making their hatred on Israel grow by the day.
 
Remember that whole holocaust thing? Yeah, they need to defend themselves. Jews are persecuted in every single country they emigrate to. Palestinians could go live in any Arab country and live happy lives.
 
Remember that whole holocaust thing? Yeah, they need to defend themselves. Jews are persecuted in every single country they emigrate to. Palestinians could go live in any Arab country and live happy lives.

So why do they persecute and demoralize the Palestinians?
 
Remember that whole holocaust thing? Yeah, they need to defend themselves. Jews are persecuted in every single country they emigrate to. Palestinians could go live in any Arab country and live happy lives.

Omg, so you basically say that if a group suffers injustice, it gives it the right to inflict injustice on others? And who told you Palestinians could easily live elsewhere??? It's a pretty braindead statement by you, to be honest.
 
Omg, so you basically say that if a group suffers injustice, it gives it the right to inflict injustice on others? And who told you Palestinians could easily live elsewhere??? It's a pretty braindead statement by you, to be honest.

People need to stop seeing "Jews" and "muslims", they need to start seeing humans.

One group is massacring civilians and using bullshit excuses to justify it. Children dead in schools, 58 medical facilities bombed, UN trucks hit, ambulances hit, gunships killing medical personnel and white phosphorus used on a civilian population????

Please tell me how this is justified?
 
People need to stop seeing "Jews" and "muslims", they need to start seeing humans.

One group is massacring civilians and using bullshit excuses to justify it. Children dead in schools, 58 medical facilities bombed, UN trucks hit, ambulances hit, gunships killing medical personnel and white phosphorus used on a civilian population????

Please tell me how this is justified?

Right, someone should stop the palestinians from doing all that ****.
 
For those willing to spend a little time - this is a great piece, now almost 7 years old, on one of the influential "think tanks" (the most influential is certainly the AEI, the "American Enterprise Institue"), that are funded mainly by right-wing jews, employ mainly right-wing jews and have been very successful in hammering into the imbecile who occupied the White House from 2000 to 2008 that everyone who opposes US-backed territorial expansion by Israel is a terrorist:

Invalid Link Removed

What terrifies me most is how many Americans seem to swallow the "Israel has to defend herself" lie without looking seriously into what zionism stands for, what the Likud party stands for, and how Palestinians are treated like blacks were in South-africa during the apartheid days, making their hatred on Israel grow by the day.

Thanks, good read!
 
Right, someone should stop the palestinians from doing all that ****.

Palestinians don't have artillery shells with White Phosphorus, or guided missiles. Just crappy rockets. So why are you saying to stop the Palestinians. They dont have sophisticated weaponry and if they did, Israel would be gone by now.

They got their asses handed to them by Hezbollah in 06 I believe.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKgph9PV3SA"]YouTube - Israeli army 'using white phosphorus' - 12 Jan 08[/ame]

Is there any practical use in this weapon? In terms of targeting Hamas?
 
Israeli Army T-Shirts Mock Gaza Killings
Invalid Link Removed

A spokesman for the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) told Sky News Online, the t-shirts were printed on the private initiative of the soldiers and their designs "are not in accordance with IDF values and are simply tasteless. This type of humour is unacceptable and should be condemned".

i've seen just as bad here within the US, and from places like Invalid Link Removed you can get whatever you want on a shirt.
 
Palestinians don't have artillery shells with White Phosphorus, or guided missiles. Just crappy rockets. So why are you saying to stop the Palestinians. They dont have sophisticated weaponry and if they did, Israel would be gone by now.

They got their asses handed to them by Hezbollah in 06 I believe.

LEts see, why would Israeli's have advanced weaponry in a region where they are surrounded by enemies? Hmmm, let me think

:rolleyes:
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBhdFYRR5tI"]YouTube - Hamas Rabbit: Eat the Danes![/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8w7_P8wZ0"]YouTube - Hamas Rabbit eat Jews[/ame]


:D
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUe8SxP_nAM"]YouTube - Apple II Commercial - Teach Your Children Well[/ame]
 
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLXZpOG4VCI&feature=PlayList&p=FE5A96CBDC2582F7&index=7"]YouTube - Obsession: Radical Islam's War against the West (8 of 10)[/nomedia]
 
Is there any practical use of mortaring israeli schools? Or going onto a bus full of civilians loaded with explosives?

You didn't answer the question about Israelis using chemical weapons on a civilian population? Do they have to burn the skin off people?


Israel has mortared schools, hospitals and UN supplies. After receiving all the coordinates. Israel can use it's military with precision, but they don't. Israel wants to "re-educate" Hamas by punishing the civilians, demoralizing them, denying them basic humanitarian aid. Yet they deny any wrong doing and state repeatedly "we will have an investigation".

Israel is not helping its image to the world, especially the Arab world, there are many people worldwide especially those who have been to Gaza that condemn Israel for forcing these people to live on a concentration camp (ironic huh?) in sub-poverty levels. No education, no employment, limited food, limited water, limited medical supplies when Israel okay's it, and no control over their power grid. They can not even make choices for themselves, Israel decides how they will live. Then you factor in all the land that was stolen from them, Bulldozing homes before the people can even get their belongings and somehow it escapes most Americans/Westerners how Hamas and Hezbollah are against Israel. American's seem to believe it's always Palestine's fault, it's there fault for not wanting someone to occupy their land right?

Israel is occupying land, unless they begin to treat those people fairly and start giving them self-reliance and return land to them and admit their faults, the Palestinians will always fight them.

Now to answer your question about suicide bombings:

Suicide bombings stupid? OF COURSE! You'll never get anywhere politically if you continue using tactics the world doesn't approve of.

Hamas, has renounced suicide bombings in 2005.(Smart move) When Hamas was using suicide bombings they were a response to Israel's attacks on civilians.

Hamas targets civilians because the IDF targets civilians. Simply put, both sides adopt terrorism. Using actual military arms (tanks, howitzers, jets) doesn't not mean it's officially "legit non-terrorism" killing and is okay cause machines are blowing up people, unlike those "crazy" Palestinians that use a human to blow up and kill people. What other weapons do they have to strike back at Israel? Can they climb into their F-16's, F-15's, Merkava's, Apaches, or use drones? No they cant. All they have are auto rifles, rockets and (not anymore) suicide bombers. They resemble guerrilla tactics more than terrorism.

Hellfire missiles or suicide vest?

Since Terrorism is a loosely defined term and there is no one actual definition, Israel would fit the definition a lot closer than Hamas. Hamas means Islamic Resistance Force.

But since Hamas doesn't believe in Christianity or Judism they are automatically demonized. They don't count as humans and if we kill their children it doesn't matter because they're not like us, forget humane treatment.

Referring to Hamas as a terrorist organization instead of militants, guerrilla, or resistance force and heaven forbid "freedom fighters", only sets them up to be viewed as a danger to the US and another nuisance. Hezbollah is still referred to as terrorist or militants when they are in fact a legitimate military defense force of Lebanon.

The biggest fallacy that exist is this ungodly belief that Israel has some mystical God-Given right to have Palestine. THEY DONT, simply put. It was the Zionist who lobbied the UN after WWII and used the Holocaust to gain sympathy for a Zionist state. Even after it was well known that Hitler was financed in part by Zionist in their own country.
Zionist also funded the Bolshevik revolution and establish the Soviet Union and for a short period controlled almost every seat in newly established Soviet parliment(only 6 were non-jewish). Marx, Trotsky Sperdloff (spelling??) all were funded by International banks owned by Zionists. Zionism has since spread and gained roots in many countries today. Mainly, you guessed-The United States. Start looking and you will find plenty of Jews/Zionist in our Government. Rahm Emmanuel being the newest one who is spear heading the Anti-Gun movement, NAFTA, and is a dual citizen of US/Israel. Who side do you think he is on? I'm pissed as an AMERICAN that a foreigner is in power in our country.


Jews and Muslims coexisted well in the area before, it was until the Zionist came and staked claims to property and farmland that was not theirs. Zionism is the plague of this planet. Religion in many forms is the evil of the world Chrisitanity, Islam and Judism.

Free Palestine.

Israel/Zionism out of US Government.
 
Invalid Link Removed



Beirut to Bosnia: Muslims and the West, Episode 1: The Martyr's Smile

Why have so many Muslims come to hate the West? In this controversial three-part series filmed in Lebanon, Gaza, Israel, Egypt, and Bosnia, Robert Fisk—award-winning Middle East and Balkans correspondent for the London Independent—reports on Muslim unrest as ideology, religion, history, and geography come into conflict.

Robert Fisk travels to Lebanon to investigate why have so many Muslims came to hate the West? In doing so he introduces us to a perspective of history we rarely see.

Invalid Link Removed
 
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJSlhqaMhU&feature=related"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFhjc3HwH0"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]
 
Some anti-semites in this thread.
 
Some anti-semites in this thread.

Being anti-Israeli policy and being anti-semitic are two totally different things. For example,Einstein was a Jew and anti-Israeli foreign policy,as was Martin Buber. Note the last video I posted where the MP speaking against Israeli policy is Jewish. At best this anti-semitic charge is a red herring.
 
There is no Anti-Semitism. Nobody is bashing Jews based on their religion.

The only thing in question is the policies and human rights, no one likes to see Genocide happen.
 
There is no Anti-Semitism. Nobody is bashing Jews based on their religion.

The only thing in question is the policies and human rights, no one likes to see Genocide happen.
from Nopeace



Except when perpetrated by the Palestinians?
 
I guess you further prove my point about Christianity and Zionism.

As for MLK-he supported Israel because the Jews were escaping persecution. Do you think he would support this slaughter?

I wasn't talking about MLK...I was talking about Luther in this thread.

The slaughter of Israeli's? No, he wouldn't support that.
 
Do you have a casualty count from this conflict?

which conflict? this has gone on for generations, so how would you like to specify your statistics?

Let me tell you something nop, you have whined and moaned for pages in this thread (which at times is quite comical), and all the while you have neglected a few important points.

1. The Arab world had their opportunity to "take the land back" after it was granted to the Israelis, however they all lost, and that was with little to no outside help.
2. You have constantly discussed "oh, Israel has done this, and Israel has done that", keep in mind one simple thing, Israel was GRANTED the land. I agree that Britain had no right to do that, however as previously mentioned, the Arab world were not able to take it back. So with Israel furthering their land grab, sadly, "to the victor go the spoils".

The attrocities are on both sides, please stop spouting your constant BS and open your eyes. Your bias towards the arab world is disgusting at this point.
 
which conflict? this has gone on for generations, so how would you like to specify your statistics?

Let me tell you something nop, you have whined and moaned for pages in this thread (which at times is quite comical), and all the while you have neglected a few important points.

1. The Arab world had their opportunity to "take the land back" after it was granted to the Israelis, however they all lost, and that was with little to no outside help.
2. You have constantly discussed "oh, Israel has done this, and Israel has done that", keep in mind one simple thing, Israel was GRANTED the land. I agree that Britain had no right to do that, however as previously mentioned, the Arab world were not able to take it back. So with Israel furthering their land grab, sadly, "to the victor go the spoils".

The attrocities are on both sides, please stop spouting your constant BS and open your eyes. Your bias towards the arab world is disgusting at this point.

Anti-semite?




Naaaahhhhhhh..........



:lol:
 
Do you support the continuous terrorist activities of Hamas?

No. I think they are incredibly stupid for doing this. If they had never used suicide bombs they would have been take a lot more seriously by the world. They have renounced suicide operations in 2005. As for the rockets they fire is another issue, they have been fired at civilian populations. If they could target them they would be landing on military installations. Hamas fires these rockets as a response to Israeli action against them. They need to stop and appeal to the world with peace. Detach the Koran from this mess and start thinking clearly. (that is of course if Israel will give fair conditions)



Terrorism is far too vague of a word and is mostly used to invoke emotion by media. There is no clear single definition of what terrorism is. Militant's, Guerrilla, Freedom Fighters, Rebels, Separatists, Terrorism which one? It depends what side they are on. The Mujadeen were on our side and it was suggested by our own military to Radicalize Islam for success of goals in the region against the Soviets now they are against us and we are calling them terrorists. By any accounts the Minute Men could be coined terrorists by the English right? They hid among civilian populations and were disrupting the British Government in the area.

Ironically HR 1955 is getting set to make people who protest into terrorists.
 
which conflict? this has gone on for generations, so how would you like to specify your statistics?

I was referring to the latest campaign

Let me tell you something nop, you have whined and moaned for pages in this thread (which at times is quite comical), and all the while you have neglected a few important points.

What do you find Comical? I don't like How much control Israel has on America. Do you support their control in our country? I'm more pissed off that our country wouldn't dare criticize them at all. Especially Fox news. Not to mention how they are pushing us to attack Iran because they can't do it. Do you support this?

1. The Arab world had their opportunity to "take the land back" after it was granted to the Israelis, however they all lost, and that was with little to no outside help.

You're right about this, Israel wouldn't have made it if they didn't act preemptively. A great strategic victory by all accounts. Israel, had better weapons, especially jet fighters. IAF really kicked ass.



2. You have constantly discussed "oh, Israel has done this, and Israel has done that", keep in mind one simple thing, Israel was GRANTED the land. I agree that Britain had no right to do that, however as previously mentioned, the Arab world were not able to take it back. So with Israel furthering their land grab, sadly, "to the victor go the spoils".

Since you acknowledge they never really owned the land, how do you expect the local people not to angry about their land being taken? So it would be okay if the Arab countries invaded and defeated Israel under the same terms it would be won back fair and square?

In the extent of Atrocities, of course both sides could have combatants tried for war crimes. Israel is proving they are just dirty and spineless by acting like Hamas. They should at least man up and say "yeah we're killing civilians, so what?" instead of pretending to investigate.


The attrocities are on both sides, please stop spouting your constant BS and open your eyes. Your bias towards the arab world is disgusting at this point.

I have no bias toward the Arab world. Our damn President just bowed his head to the Sultan of Saudi Arabia. Bias? Saudia Arabia supports terrorism the most of any other country and there's Obama following Bush by bending over. My Bias is in the best interest of my country. The US is NOT Israel's strong arm, we don't fight their wars and they shouldn't be telling us how to act and how to vote in the UN as they did to Bush.

Do you support Israel's control over the US?

**** the Arab world, We shouldn't even be doing anything over there. No American lives should be spent to further the interest of another country or Corporation(s). Why should our tax dollars in the Billions go to another country if they are fully self-sufficient?

Any objections?
 
Back
Top