Another Slim Xtreme Review

Enigma76

Enigma76

Active member
Day 1: 1 cap at 10am (woke up late) w/o food till 20 min later

Results: Very little actually. No energy, slight lift in mood (saw myself being a bit more outgoing and meeting people whom I otherwise might not have), zero effect on appetite suppression (was starving all day). Slight impact on focus/mental clarity, but still found myself sucking down a Dunkin Donuts large coffee at 4pm to stay awake (which is normal).

Chalking day 1 up to either tolerance to Aneurin DBE, as I've used it quite extensively through various products, or an off-day with my body.

Day 2: 2 caps at 8:30am w/o food till 45 min later to maybe give it some more time to digest the caps/absorb the ingredients w/o food.

Definitely getting an energy boost this morning (almost too much haha, guess I'd need 1.5 caps as a sweet spot) and mental clarity is doing better than 1 cap. Will report later on today or tomorrow about the results of today's dose.



As a side note, I got some transient anti-cholinergic symptoms from this (they go and come) yesterday, and I've gotten the same symptoms from other ADBE products, particularly Venom 3.0 (spiked with meridia) and a bit from Lean FX. Nothing yet today though. I'm wondering if anyone can postulate as to the mechanism for this. Sx include dry-mouth, flushing, a feeling of a fever or of hot skin (especially over my eyes) and definitely pupil dilation. My girlfriend commented yesterday that my eyes were really scaring looking b/c my pupils were so large. I'm not too concerned about it, but was just wondering if anyone had any idea or experienced similar things. I'm pretty sure its the ADBE b/c the other products I've gotten similar symptoms from only really have ADBE (or, in the case of venom, another thiamine analogue) in common.
 
Also, no I'm not taking any OTC/Rx antihistamines.

I'm not getting any of the anticholinergic sx today, it just happened yesterday a bit, but it has happened before with other ADBE products. And I'm not lethargic or having any other sx of antihistamine-like activity, so I don't think its something in Slim Xtreme thats having some kind of dual H1/muscarinic receptor antagonism.
 
12:25 on day 2 after 2 caps, 4 hours post dosing:

Energy went wayyyy too high this morning but has come down to a definitely tolerable and fun level, kind of like the one time I tried 10mg of adderall where I get so energetic I actually lose focus on my work for awhile and then settle into a nice buzz. Generally, I'm very easily able to focus, its more of a motivation/energy issue for me.

Appetite suppression is monstrous right now! I'm usually dying for food 3-4 hours after my morning protein shake, but I couldn't care less about it right now. This is more what I'm talking about!

Mood is much better now than this morning, I'm definitely happier.

And still no anticholinergic sx yet today, hooray.
 
Enigma76 said:
was just wondering if anyone had any idea or experienced similar things. I'm pretty sure its the ADBE b/c the other products I've gotten similar symptoms from only really have ADBE (or, in the case of venom, another thiamine analogue) in common.
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Common and correct. Adbe, happens to me every time.
 
BigSmith said:
Common and correct. Adbe, happens to me every time.
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Cool, thanks for the reply. I'm just surprised I haven't read anyone mentioning this anywhere yet, I was hoping it wasnt an issue for me alone.

Any thoughts as to why a thiamine analogue is causing anticholinergic symptoms? Such a strange side effect. Have you noticed whether it goes away eventually?
 
Enigma76 said:
Cool, thanks for the reply. I'm just surprised I haven't read anyone mentioning this anywhere yet, I was hoping it wasnt an issue for me alone.

Any thoughts as to why a thiamine analogue is causing anticholinergic symptoms? Such a strange side effect. Have you noticed whether it goes away eventually?
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We have had a few comment on it. For me it stops after about 4 days on SX.
 
5:23pm Day 2 - 2 Caps at 8:30am.

Energy from 12:25 has gone way down as has mental clarity, but I was expecting this. From my last update I was definitely buzzing fast, cranked through alot more work than I expected. Last night I had very restless sleep, up probably every hour or so, so I am expecting a huge crash regardless of stimulants or not at some point today.

To that point, I am TRULY surprised that I'm still awake and able to think 9 hours after waking up.

None of the anticholinergic sx again yet. However, I am getting some interesting thermal regulation changes evident with periods of extremity pallor/coldness alternating with periods of body heat and intense sweating. Might have overdone it a bit this morning with 2 caps.


Definitely think I'll be going back to 1 cap tomorrow.

I plan on continuing this review for a couple days to see how the effects are a couple days into dosing. Tomorrow will be the real test though, as I wont be studying all day but rather working on my feet from 6:30am to 6:30pm straight. Lets see how good my diagnostic skills are tomorrow haha.


As an aside, my experiences today really reminded me of the one time I tried 10mg of adderall, in pretty much every aspect that I can remember (it was awhile ago).
 
Since you have been at 2 caps, 1 cap may really be weak feeling. Just FYI, if its going to be a strenuous day, stay at 2 and then go back to one on a normal day. Just my opinion.
 
12:45AM Day 2 - 2 Caps at 8:30AM

Still awake, which is amazing considering the utter lack of sleep I got last night. Definitely feeling ready to go to bed though but had to post a couple more observations.

Went to the gym after my last update, around 6:00pm, and did my normal routine. I start with a 1 mile run and then do assorted upper body weights afterwards. I'm working out at my crappy apartment building gym, so they only have machines for bench/rows that go up to 210lbs.

My goals are to get a sub 6:30 min mile and as many reps on bench and row as possible at 210 lbs. For reference, before I started this routine I never ran below an 8:30 min mile...I'm just not build for running. For lifts, I do 2 warmup sets and then do one work set for as many reps as possible, and each week I push myself to get one more rep.

Today I thought I might have been a bit too stimmed out from the SX to run. I ended up doing a 7:50 min mile (first time ever I broke 8 min!), and added 2 reps to both bench at 210 (19 reps) and rows (10 reps but could've prolly been 11). Only thing I noticed was that my HR was about 185 after the run, when it has normally been in the 160-170 range when I finish.

I was sweating like MAD the rest of the night. I had night class and was sweating the entire time in a T-shirt, it was nuts. I definitely got some endurance boost from the SX, because I was going up consistently 1 rep per week but just barely, and to go up 2 today was a bit too much to chalk up to normal gains. To be honest, most of the time I workout I'm exhausted to the point of feeling quite weak...some days my lifts drop tremendously from general tiredness. On the days that I don't feel tired, I can do pretty well, and I think SX definitely had that impact on me today.

I will also say that after exercising I got a whole new wave of energy and focus. I think another reviewer mentioned this as well, that when he went to workout feeling drained and tired he found himself able to push it harder than he thought and had some residual energy boost afterwards.



BigSmith, I think I'm going to do 1 tomorrow and just drink coffee if I need to. I can't be over-stimmed like I was today when I'm dealing with patients, it just doesn't work well when I'm so jacked that I can't focus (read my post at 12:30pm for reference). I'd rather be really tired than overly stimmed.

Will update this tomorrow night after work with my experiences.
 
very nice and thorough review,enigma! Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us all.

If 2 caps is too much, and 1 may not be enough, the "cup o' coffee" may be a decent pick me up for you. Give it a try with a single-cap dose and let us know how it all went. The SX Boosters are meant for such an occasion, too. When 1 isn't quite enough but 2 is too many, the Boosters would provide that half-step in there. They'll provide a good kick for a few hours when you start feeling "down". It may be something to look into in your case.

Best wishes in your continued trials of SX! :cheers:
 
3:20pm Day 3 - 1 Cap SX w 1 Cap LFX at 7:00am

As I've written, I'm really overdue on alot of sleep. I was hoping that maybe the extra ADBE in LFX would put me closer to the "sweet spot" that I need.

Half day today, thank God, because it definitely wasn't enough. Very similar to my Day 1 review at 1 cap.

Again though, when I walked home from work, I am noticing an increased energy/focus level afterwards. I'm tired right now, but I'm motivated to get some work done.

People have expressed this same exercise-inducing-energy/focus cycle with SX, and I noticed it yesterday after the gym. Exercising, just for reference, does NOT give me more energy afterwards if I'm exhausted beforehand.


I definitely think I'm going to have to look into SX boosters. Tomorrow, I'm going to try 2 caps WITH food as opposed to without like on Day 2. I'm wondering if on Day 2 I got so jacked up because I took double the day before's dose without any food for 45 min. Will report further tonight or tomorrow.

I plan on continuing this mini-log/review everyday for the first 5-ish days, and then maybe updating once in awhile afterwards.
 
EDITED DAY 4 - 1 Cap w/food.


Started to get some greenish/brown sputum the past 2 days. Woke up this morning with the same and decided to check my throat.

Left tonsil is enlarged, erythematous and covered with exudate. I don't have a fever and feel great but needless to say I have some sort of tonsilar infection brewing. Hence, I will not be dosing SX at 2 caps it resolves, as I need to eat and sleep to keep the immune system going. 1 cap should be good enough as the past couple tries at 1 cap have given mild-moderate app suppression and have allowed me to sleep well.
 
It's that time of year when you need to consider sometype of immune support, depending on were you live. I always get sick this time of year.

You may want to try 1 first thing in the morning with food... And about 5 hours later a second one. I've tried this with great success the past two days.

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Enigma76 said:
As a side note, I got some transient anti-cholinergic symptoms from this (they go and come) yesterday, and I've gotten the same symptoms from other ADBE products, particularly Venom 3.0 (spiked with meridia) and a bit from Lean FX. Nothing yet today though. I'm wondering if anyone can postulate as to the mechanism for this. Sx include dry-mouth
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Been doing some reading for school and happened across a case example of a man on phenothiazine therapy, which results in anti-cholinergic side effects, predominantly dry-mouth.

Anti-cholinergic dry mouth results from a decrease in mucus secretions and, in this case example above, caused the man to have multiple salivary gland infectious abscesses. The mechanism was the reduction in secretions resulted in bacterial overgrowth.

My theory right now is that the anti-cholinergic side effects that I experience with ADBE or long-acting thiamine analogues results in a decreased secretory environment in my pharyngeal mucosa, allowing for bacterial overgrowth and resultant infection, especially in the cryptic spaces of my tonsils and adenoids (which is where I've been getting the chronic infections post-ADBE use, it has happened 5-6 times in the past 9 months all linked exclusively with ADBE or venom's thiamine analogue).

I'm still recovering (on antibiotics now, the tonsillitis moved and became a generalized sinus infection).
 
Enigma76 said:
Been doing some reading for school and happened across a case example of a man on phenothiazine therapy, which results in anti-cholinergic side effects, predominantly dry-mouth.

Anti-cholinergic dry mouth results from a decrease in mucus secretions and, in this case example above, caused the man to have multiple salivary gland infectious abscesses. The mechanism was the reduction in secretions resulted in bacterial overgrowth.

My theory right now is that the anti-cholinergic side effects that I experience with ADBE or long-acting thiamine analogues results in a decreased secretory environment in my pharyngeal mucosa, allowing for bacterial overgrowth and resultant infection, especially in the cryptic spaces of my tonsils and adenoids (which is where I've been getting the chronic infections post-ADBE use, it has happened 5-6 times in the past 9 months all linked exclusively with ADBE or venom's thiamine analogue).

I'm still recovering (on antibiotics now, the tonsillitis moved and became a generalized sinus infection).
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Could be. A few B1 analogs (but not ADBE) have demonstrated potent antihistaminergic properties. There may be some intrinsic cross-over with cholinergic subreceptors too, which is often the case with anti-Hs. Some B1 analogs demonstrate antifungal, antimetabolite, and coccidioidal activity in mice, but without producing symptoms of B1 deficiency in chickens. For what it's worth, just sayin'. :)

ADBE is a fat soluble, repository precursor to aneurin basically, albeit it a strong TTP booster. It actually potentiates cholinergic transmission, so maybe this is just an idiosyncrasy of yours, E? You may want to try zinc lozenges, chew gum to keep your throat wet, or something to address and/or avoid the symptoms. Otherwise, it might be easiest to just refrain from all non-conventional thiamine products, if they're potentially causing you this much hassle.
 
DR.D said:
Could be. A few B1 analogs (but not ADBE) have demonstrated potent antihistaminergic properties. There may be some intrinsic cross-over with cholinergic subreceptors too, which is often the case with anti-Hs. Some B1 analogs demonstrate antifungal, antimetabolite, and coccidioidal activity in mice, but without producing symptoms of B1 deficiency in chickens. For what it's worth, just sayin'. :)

ADBE is a fat soluble, repository precursor to aneurin basically, albeit it a strong TTP booster. It actually potentiates cholinergic transmission, so maybe this is just an idiosyncrasy of yours, E? You may want to try zinc lozenges, chew gum to keep your throat wet, or something to address and/or avoid the symptoms. Otherwise, it might be easiest to just refrain from all non-conventional thiamine products, if they're potentially causing you this much hassle.
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Couple questions for clarification, thanks for chiming in D.

"Some B1 analogs demonstrate antifungal, antimetabolite, and coccidioidal activity in mice, but without producing symptoms of B1 deficiency in chickens."

You mean anti-coccidioidal activity, right? And what do you mean in the last part of this sentence? Why would B1 analogues produce symptoms of thiamine deficiency?


"ADBE is a fat soluble, repository precursor to aneurin basically, albeit it a strong TTP booster."

TTP booster is what?

"It actually potentiates cholinergic transmission, so maybe this is just an idiosyncrasy of yours, E?"

This is something I came across, and figured I'd ask here since I couldn't figure it out. Am I right in thinking that thiamine plays an important role in the synaptic cleft RE cholinergic receptor activation? Guess I'm a weird individual then eh? Do you have a MOA for ADBE in the body? Does it just store in fat and is released as needed?

Something weird that I noticed as well. Generally, my multi-vit has so many B vitamins that my urine is neon yellow a couple hours after taking them. However, when taking SX I noticed that my urine was not NEARLY as brightly colored after taking my multis. I wonder if this has something to do with increased usage of the vits or maybe reduced excretion?


"You may want to try zinc lozenges, chew gum to keep your throat wet, or something to address and/or avoid the symptoms. Otherwise, it might be easiest to just refrain from all non-conventional thiamine products, if they're potentially causing you this much hassle."

I like the idea of chewing gum. I think in retrospect when I get the really strong appetite suppression (such as on 2 caps of ADBE) I forget to drink water as well, so maybe forcing myself to keep drinking water will help. I also think that I might have ramped up too fast.

I don't think I'm ready to abandon ship just yet. As I mentioned previously, LFX did not ever give me these symptoms or create the tonsillitis/sinus infection combo that I now have. I think when I'm fully recovered, I'll start ramping up LFX to get used to the ADBE and then maybe cut one SX in half and take half one day and half the next. The idea is to slowly ramp up the ADBE dosing to desensitize myself to these side effects. Thoughts on this, especially on cutting a SX cap in half?


Thanks for your input D, hopefully anyone else with these symptoms can be helped by this thread.
 
Enigma,

Yes, I meant anti-coccidioidal activity, sorry for the typo. :)

Vitamin antimetabolites are sometimes applied in the prophylaxis of bacterial infections, making use of their bacteriostatic effect. In the example I provided, it was an interesting find IMO that pathogens were preferentially targeted but interference with essential vitamin function was not observed in the host species. This does not apply to ADBE, but I thought you may like to consider it with your future research of possible B1 anticholinergics. Also, many common food sources of antimetabolites occur. For example, acetylcholine is an antagonist to thiamine. Oxythiamine and butylthiamine are specific antimetabolites. Also, several thiaminases (catabolic enzymes) occur which destroy thiamine. Freshwater fish have high thiaminase activity, so do clams, shrimp and mussels. Thiaminases have also been found in beans, mustard seed and several microbes. This could give rise to metabolites and antimetabolites too.

TTP = Thiamine Triphosphate. TTP is hypothesized to be the major neuroactive form of thiamine, and the one specifically responsible for ADBE's significant energizing potential. Fat soluble forms of thiamine cross the blood-brain barrier more easily, thus offering an exceptionally high concentration of precursor to TTP formation. It can increase synaptic transmissions and cholinergic tone, perhaps due to an increase in hippocampal ACh uptake. It makes sense that a high powered aneurin precursor could yield such benefits, because a thiamine deficiency in man is known to produce memory dysfunction and cognitive disorders which may be related to impairment of cholinergic activity.

Only some B-vits are yellow, folic acid and riboflavin for example. Like you, I would be tempted to speculate that you're utilizing these vitamins more efficiently, but I honestly have no idea. You say you're drinking less water than usual, so this observation seems somewhat anomalous. I'll consider it and get back with you if anything dawns on me. I will suggest to you now though, it's usually a good idea to stay well hydrated, especially if you're an athlete!

E, you're telling me you suspect this may be contributing to some recurrent, preexisting problem you have with ADBE and your throat, yet also asking me to advocate a reduced dose because you don't feel you're ready to abandon it yet? :o There's no possible way I would recommend you persist with any dose. I'll offer you an analogy though... It damages muscles when one lifts weights, and this can have side effects such as soreness. Are the ultimate benefits of that effort worth the side effects you endure to obtain it? A man can only answer this question for himself. ;)
 
For those who don't know, Dr.D types with one (sometimes two) fingers.

Typos often occur, and posts in excess of 4 sentences showcase the great deal of dedication and effort he puts forth to cater to questions.
 
thesinner said:
For those who don't know, Dr.D types with one (sometimes two) fingers.

Typos often occur, and posts in excess of 4 sentences showcase the great deal of dedication and effort he puts forth to cater to questions.
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I'm almost tempted to feel insulted by your post, sinner! But what can I say, you pretty much nailed it. :o
 
"You must spread some reputation before giving it to DR.D again"

Lol. It's all good. If your faults aren't something you can laugh about, then they are a problem.
 
thesinner said:
"You must spread some reputation before giving it to DR.D again"

Lol. It's all good. If your faults aren't something you can laugh about, then they are a problem.
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Well the way I see it, I don't have 8 underdeveloped fingers per say, just 2 really super strong ones! lol

You're a good man, my friend.
 
Just as long as you don't have one super-developed forearm. I heard the means to get you that way will make you go blind. ;)
 
Degenerates! You damn kids and your damn rap music, get off my lawn!

I've decided to stop SX or any ADBE product until my antibiotic regimen is finished (next week).

At that point, I'm going to reassess everything.

My hope is that if I can slowly desensitize my body to ADBE, I might be able to get to a point where I can dose everyday without detrimental side effects. Because, as I mentioned to Dr.D, I need app suppression (or else I'ma get huge again) with all the stress from school, and regular stims just don't cut it in the least. Plus, no matter how many stims I take in, my mind just doesn't work well on low-calories (and thus lower than normal carbs). Only thing that works is adderall, but I don't have a script for that.

Will update in the future when I get back into the game.
 
Enigma76 said:
Day 1: 1 cap at 10am (woke up late) w/o food till 20 min later

Results: Very little actually. No energy, slight lift in mood (saw myself being a bit more outgoing and meeting people whom I otherwise might not have), zero effect on appetite suppression (was starving all day). Slight impact on focus/mental clarity, but still found myself sucking down a Dunkin Donuts large coffee at 4pm to stay awake (which is normal).

Chalking day 1 up to either tolerance to Aneurin DBE, as I've used it quite extensively through various products, or an off-day with my body.

Day 2: 2 caps at 8:30am w/o food till 45 min later to maybe give it some more time to digest the caps/absorb the ingredients w/o food.

Definitely getting an energy boost this morning (almost too much haha, guess I'd need 1.5 caps as a sweet spot) and mental clarity is doing better than 1 cap. Will report later on today or tomorrow about the results of today's dose.



As a side note, I got some transient anti-cholinergic symptoms from this (they go and come) yesterday, and I've gotten the same symptoms from other ADBE products, particularly Venom 3.0 (spiked with meridia) and a bit from Lean FX. Nothing yet today though. I'm wondering if anyone can postulate as to the mechanism for this. Sx include dry-mouth, flushing, a feeling of a fever or of hot skin (especially over my eyes) and definitely pupil dilation. My girlfriend commented yesterday that my eyes were really scaring looking b/c my pupils were so large. I'm not too concerned about it, but was just wondering if anyone had any idea or experienced similar things. I'm pretty sure its the ADBE b/c the other products I've gotten similar symptoms from only really have ADBE (or, in the case of venom, another thiamine analogue) in common.
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I am new to this forum and have just starting supplementing SX and Lean FX into my exercise/diet plan and have noticed some unusual similarities of side effects. I currently take 2 SX tabs in the am and 3 FX tabs spread out during the day. I am 8 days into this program, and noticed on day 2 when I started getting extreme dry mouth and an increase pulse rate (121). I am not sensitive to stims and have never experienced this before with other supplements. Also, I am currently taken the allergy medicine "Zrytec". I wanted to mention that since there seems to be a connection based on what I am reading. This is by far, the best product I have tried that has successfully suppressed my appetite and I do not want to abandon ship just yet since eating too much has always been my downfall. Any advice on this because I am not quite sure I understand the whole thiamine/transient anti-cholinergic symptom connection.
 
Robert2957 said:
... I am currently taken the allergy medicine "Zrytec". I wanted to mention that since there seems to be a connection based on what I am reading. ...
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Yes, Zyrtec is an anti-histamine, which generally means some anti-cholinergic cross-over. Dry mouth, cardioacceleration, anhydrosis, etc..
 
DR.D said:
Yes, Zyrtec is an anti-histamine, which generally means some anti-cholinergic cross-over. Dry mouth, cardioacceleration, anhydrosis, etc..
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Thanks, Dr. D. And what is the connection of anti-histamines to SX and how is this resolved. Both are taken at the same time in the morning 30 min prior to breakfast. Would taken the Zrytec later in the day reduce the side effects.
 
Robert2957 said:
Thanks, Dr. D. And what is the connection of anti-histamines to SX and how is this resolved. Both are taken at the same time in the morning 30 min prior to breakfast. Would taken the Zrytec later in the day reduce the side effects.
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It's really not possible to say. Response to anti-histamines is very individualized IME, but I doubt it would help much with Zyrtec's long t1/2. The label says you should consult your doctor before stacking anything though, and I agree that's the best way to proceed (especially if you're experiencing any sides with your current meds.)
 
BigSmith said:
Not sure how I missed this. Thanks for the Review and updates!
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I am on day 7 of SX, taking 1 cap every morning at 5:00, eating between 6:00-6:30 am. No real side efffects other than mild dry mouth.....until today. Major increase in heart rate: 155, hypertension: 174/98, headache, blurred vision, dizziness, schleral hemorrhage (small), tightness in chest, shortness of breath. I'm STILL experiencing these symptoms, although the HR and BP have decreased, still not back to baseline after 17 hours since my 5:00 am dose. Needless to say, I will not be taking SX at least for the next few days, if ever. I am a Diet Dew drinker. Could one 20oz drink/day have caused such severe side effects with one cap of SX? I did find this product to be the most effective appetite suppressant and pleasant energy booster that I've ever tried and if possible would like to continue taking it. Is there anything I may be doing wrong which would have caused these side effects on day 7?
 
nicchilton;1910515 said:
Could one 20oz drink/day have caused such severe side effects with one cap of SX?
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Yes it can. That is one reason we have the insert with a strong warning to avoid extra caff. It can make the stim more pronounced in SX.
 
Why after 7 days of the same routine and caffiene intake (less today) did I experience such extreme side effects? IF I decide to continue with SX, do you think it would be better for me to take 1 every other day instead of everyday? Would taking it with food instead of on an empty stomach lessen the side effect? Given that the caffiene was probably the culprit, do you think it would be safe for me to continue SX in a few days, minus the diet dews? Like I said, I have loved the product until today, but I seriously thought I might stroke out!
 
Honestly I don't have a great answer for you and not a Dr.

If it were me....I would try taking it with food and without caff. And then if it ever happened again I would discontinue it.

Any strong stims can give this type of side from ephedrine to Adderall. I have taken adderall and have a very similar experience. It happened twice then never again. Dr. never had a reason why.
 
I will say, caffeine sensitivity increases tremendously when taking SX. I'd try also to steer away from tyramine-containing foods, such as cocoa. I know, I had a cup of low-caffeine tea (20mg) one day, and it hit me more like 500mg. Mountain Dew has the highest caffeine content of domestic soft drink products (i.e. Coke, Pepsi, etc.). 20 oz of Mountain dew has around 100mg of caffeine. (Invalid Link Removed). So if 20mg were to hit you like it hit me, we're looking at 4-5x what it hit me at. My equivalence rating was 500mg for 20mg, so this would equate to an equivalence of about 2000mg of caffeine. Diet sodas also contain artificial sweeteners. In the case of mountain dew, it's a mixture of acesulfame and aspartame. Aspartame is one for concern as it metabolizes via first pass in your liver to form phenylalanine (a catecholamine which increases sensitivity to stimulants), aspartic acid (stimulant), and methanol (which further metabolizes into formic acid).

The symptoms described sound akin to an overdose of caffeine or other stimulant via the catecholamine route. With any stimulant, it is important to be careful. Other things to consider are general heart health. This should be a no-brainer and I'll likely assume you are in good cardiovascular health, but this is definitely something to be considered. Deposition of cholesterol plaques along blood vessels lead to self-propagating effects in response to changes in heart rate. All I know about you right now is that 7 days of use with SX and you got this lashback. Why didn't this happen on day one? That question makes me wonder if other factors are involved.

Right now, arrows are pointing at "doing the dew" and any cardiovascular concerns with the person I am communicating with.

I remember alpha-testing a few "rough drafts" of SX blends. One of them put me in what appears to be a similar condition as yourself.

What I would recommend is re-trace your steps throughout those 7 days. What things did you do on day 7 that may have been different from 1-6? Pick out those differences, eliminate them, and try once more. Absolutely no caffeine or other related foods.
 
So I'm back.

I've completely kicked the infection and am feeling much better.

I took a "trial" 1 cap dose on Thursday of last week, and focused on drinking LOTS of water all day. I also focused on making sure that the water touches all parts of my oropharynx, especially the tonsils, to ensure that they maintain adequate hydration. Not chugging the water, more of a "swish and gulp".

I then took Friday off, and took another "trial" 1 cap dose on Saturday. No ill-effects to speak of, both anti-cholinergic or infection related. The positive effects were very similar to my first post on Day 1. My sweet spot is definitely going to be more than 1 cap per day. I will say, however, that 1 cap is very subtle for me and I probably missed most of the effects the first time through.

I'm noticing a very subtle drive kind of energy and a slight mood boost. I also noticed that these effects last me about 5-6 hours with 1 cap.

Dr.D has helped me tremendously in attempting to figure out the various strange ways my body seems to respond to SX. And yes, apparently I do react quite strangely to it.

I took yesterday (Sunday) off, and will be taking another 1 cap "trial" dose today. I'll probably run this one day on, one day off dosing regimen for another week or so to help build up tolerance and get myself in the habit of forcing water all day. I normally drink lots of water as a habit, but I found that when I take SX I seem to forget to drink water, akin to how I almost forget to eat.


:donut:
 
Enigma76 said:
, but I found that when I take SX I seem to forget to drink water, akin to how I almost forget to eat.


:donut:
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I forget to eat too haha I need to remind myself, seriously. Definitely drink tons of water though.

Glad youre back and recovered!
 
*Sigh*...Frustration abounds.

I haven't updated because my schedule has been hectic. And, yesterday I began getting all the same symptoms all over again...the "anticholinergic" symptoms, the general feeling of sickness, etc...today, have some of the phlegm like I reported earlier in this thread marking the beginning of an infection. I definitely felt like hell all day yesterday. Tuesday I felt okay, definitely not 100%, and yesterday just iced the cake. No tonsillitis yet.

Unfortunately this is it for me. I've given it a helluva shot, and will be discontinuing all products with ADBE in the future.

Sorry guys, but I guess it just wasn't meant to be for me. Keep up the great work on products such as this, it seems like you have a real winner here.

And thanks for all the help with my problems throughout this thread. Much obliged.
 
Im experiencing vastly different "days" also.

Diet / routine is the same, always a solid sleep but how my body reacts to SX is anyones guess on a given day.

Is it possible some caps are under/over dosed?
 
Experiencing similiar symptoms of extreme dry mouth, periodic accelarated heartbeat/pulse rate, and tightness of the chest throughout the day. Was dosing at 1 SX in am and 1 SX Booster late afternoon per day plus 3 Lean FX a day in the morning, afternoon and before bed. Had to get off of this regimen because of the extreme side effects that I was experiencing which stopped 2 days after I stopped this supplementation. It has been abt 2 weeks off, and thinking about introducing just the SX and SX booster again but leaving out the Lean FX since it to contains ADBE but at a lower dose. The only reason why I am considering giving this another try is because of the extreme appetite suppression. Never have I experienced such suppression from a supplement and to me its worth another try since overeating has always been my downfall. However, if these side effect come back to any degree, I will no longer be taking any products that contain ADBE, but hopefully not. Will keep you posted.
 
Enigma76 said:
*Sigh*...Frustration abounds.

I haven't updated because my schedule has been hectic. And, yesterday I began getting all the same symptoms all over again...the "anticholinergic" symptoms, the general feeling of sickness, etc...today, have some of the phlegm like I reported earlier in this thread marking the beginning of an infection. I definitely felt like hell all day yesterday. Tuesday I felt okay, definitely not 100%, and yesterday just iced the cake. No tonsillitis yet.

Unfortunately this is it for me. I've given it a helluva shot, and will be discontinuing all products with ADBE in the future.

Sorry guys, but I guess it just wasn't meant to be for me. Keep up the great work on products such as this, it seems like you have a real winner here.

And thanks for all the help with my problems throughout this thread. Much obliged.
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Well, you never know E. Maybe you'll isolate the underlying issue one day, and it'll clear the path for various restrictions you encounter now. I've desensitized to many things over the years, quite spontaneously in some cases. Penicillin for example. I used to react with anaphylaxis, but now I wouldn't even know if I took it.

Did you ever try to compensate with a simultaneous cholinergic compound? Something like aGPC, ALCAR, or a salt of choline itself? That would help to confirm your anticholinergic theory a little better, or at least give insights into receptor affinity dominance, maybe.
 
Robert2957 said:
I am new to this forum and have just starting supplementing SX and Lean FX into my exercise/diet plan and have noticed some unusual similarities of side effects. I currently take 2 SX tabs in the am and 3 FX tabs spread out during the day. I am 8 days into this program, and noticed on day 2 when I started getting extreme dry mouth and an increase pulse rate (121). I am not sensitive to stims and have never experienced this before with other supplements. Also, I am currently taken the allergy medicine "Zrytec". I wanted to mention that since there seems to be a connection based on what I am reading. This is by far, the best product I have tried that has successfully suppressed my appetite and I do not want to abandon ship just yet since eating too much has always been my downfall. Any advice on this because I am not quite sure I understand the whole thiamine/transient anti-cholinergic symptom connection.
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A resting pulse of 121 is downright dangerous. Anything is above >90 without physical exertion is asking for trouble. I'd drop the SX all together or drop it to just one a day. Can't believe nobody has commented on your 121 pulse rate due to this supp.
 
Rough08 said:
A resting pulse of 121 is downright dangerous. Anything is above >90 without physical exertion is asking for trouble. I'd drop the SX all together or drop it to just one a day. Can't believe nobody has commented on your 121 pulse rate due to this supp.
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Dangerous how? What are these troubles you speak of regarding an elevated pulse rate? A higher pulse rate often indicates a lowered blood pressure, which is generally a good thing. Also, if the pulse rate gets out of operating range the body naturally limits it to ~160 so that you simply can't get it too high (that's the queasy feeling you get if you don't rest long enough in between sets.) High pulse rate causes no long-term health problems that I am aware of, but high blood pressure can eventually kill you.

Besides, he was advised to consult his doctor before proceeding. Tachycardia is not uncommon with antihistamines such as that found in Zyrtec, so perhaps you're being a bit presumptuous to assume his observations had anything to do with 'this supp'?
 
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