What milestones do you feel a person should meet..

[Frank Reynolds]

Prior to using gear?

Do you base it on time training, amount of natural gains made, amount of posts on an internet forum? Or do you feel there are none, and a person can do as they feel?

Just curious to peoples feelings on this.

 

[mixedup]

Prior to using gear?

Do you base it on time training, amount of natural gains made, amount of posts on an internet forum? Or do you feel there are none, and a person can do as they feel?

Just curious to peoples feelings on this.

it really kind of depnds natural gains are subjective because everyone can gain different, somebody asked before about lbm but that can also be very different depening on height weight etc.

Overall it's a personal choice and if someone wants to use they are going to.
People on here are going to justify to themselves. I had over a decade competing in martial arts, wrestled through highschool and college and had a few years fighting all before taking the plunge. I was well versed in nutrition having worke with a dietician and also worked with several strength and condition coaches. So i was used to 2 a day work outs, cardio etc for many years. then i come on here and see some people who say stuff like i've been training Hard for a few years and think i'm ready to take the plunge Hell We are all over 21 or should be in this forum and if your old enough to drink, vote and go to war your old enough to decided what to put into your body

 

[heavyiron]

I think once a person dials in training, nutrition and recovery then it makes sense to use chemical enhancement. This may sound easy but it is not. It is something that takes years. I also feel that young men should wait as their test levels are usually quite high. I started aas at age 20 and looking back after 21 years I wished I had learned more about nutrition first.

 

[suncloud]

Prior to using gear?

Do you base it on time training, amount of natural gains made, amount of posts on an internet forum? Or do you feel there are none, and a person can do as they feel?

Just curious to peoples feelings on this.

i would base it off natural gains. i say this because time training means nothing. you can spin your wheels for 3 years and still get something out of it.

natural gains - something like 20% above (masswise) what you started with would be a good indicator to me. this would tell me you have:
1 - diet locked down
2 - training pretty solid

without those, there's no point in doing a cycle anyways.

for mesomorphs this number would obviously be different. maybe % of body fat lost since the gym, or % of weight lost since joining the gym.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

it really kind of depnds natural gains are subjective because everyone can gain different, somebody asked before about lbm but that can also be very different depening on height weight etc.

Overall it's a personal choice and if someone wants to use they are going to.
People on here are going to justify to themselves. I had over a decade competing in martial arts, wrestled through highschool and college and had a few years fighting all before taking the plunge. I was well versed in nutrition having worke with a dietician and also worked with several strength and condition coaches. So i was used to 2 a day work outs, cardio etc for many years. then i come on here and see some people who say stuff like i've been training Hard for a few years and think i'm ready to take the plunge Hell We are all over 21 or should be in this forum and if your old enough to drink, vote and go to war your old enough to decided what to put into your body

Interesting.. Some good points

I think once a person dials in training, nutrition and recovery then it makes sense to use chemical enhancement. This may sound easy but it is not. It is something that takes years. I also feel that young men should wait as their test levels are usually quite high. I started aas at age 20 and looking back after 21 years I wished I had learned more about nutrition first.

I agree with the dialed in nutrition, and diet. The question is, are people being honest with themselves? I mean i would wager in a poll of these BB boards would lead to 99% of people saying they "have their diets dialed in"

i would base it off natural gains. i say this because time training means nothing. you can spin your wheels for 3 years and still get something out of it.

natural gains - something like 20% above (masswise) what you started with would be a good indicator to me. this would tell me you have:
1 - diet locked down
2 - training pretty solid

without those, there's no point in doing a cycle anyways.

for mesomorphs this number would obviously be different. maybe % of body fat lost since the gym, or % of weight lost since joining the gym.

Some good points as well. I agree time training doesn't mean much, if you have gotten no where.


Keep them coming! Interested to see how everyone feels about this.. There is really no wrong or right answer.

 

[mixedup]

I agree with the dialed in nutrition, and diet. The question is, are people being honest with themselves? I mean i would wager in a poll of these BB boards would lead to 99% of people saying they "have their diets dialed in"


.

Also i think people may not get what dialed in means. you can have a very good diet counting calories macros etc. BUT and this is a Big BUT is your diet dialed in for YOU?? Two people same weight and height can need both different calories and macros to gain or lose. and also how long has your diet been dialed in. Anybody can run a perfect diet of a few weeks etc.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Also i think people may not get what dialed in means. you can have a very good diet counting calories macros etc. BUT and this is a Big BUT is your diet dialed in for YOU?? Two people same weight and height can need both different calories and macros to gain or lose. and also how long has your diet been dialed in. Anybody can run a perfect diet of a few weeks etc.

Very good points...

I often see people spending 100-200 a month on supplements, while their diets likely need work.

IMO that money might be better spent working with someone for a few months, who KNOWS what they are doing, and REALLY dial your diet in, for you. Also they can criticize you more objectively. This is PRICELESS information, and might save you years of trial and error.


For your second point.. I agree with that as well.

 

[heavyiron]

I agree with the dialed in nutrition, and diet. The question is, are people being honest with themselves? I mean i would wager in a poll of these BB boards would lead to 99% of people saying they "have their diets dialed in"

You are exactly right, I imagine the vast majority of people here have unproductive nutrition for their goals and will never know it.

I hired a nutritionist after 21 years of on and off BB because I knew I could do better with less drugs if my nutrition was correct. My nutritionist has changed my diet 3 times in the last 3 weeks alone just by looking at me and asking a few questions. It is way more complicated then people think. I am bulking and you would think it would be easy to design a bulk diet but it is not. Things change weekly. Your body has different needs. Your metabolism adjusts. You constantly are battling homeostasis.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I'm going to come out and say **** the numbers. A picture will usually show if someone is ready or not.

 

[DLM5]

What blows my mind is... seeing guys who have run a few cycles and they are not any bigger than me, and their max lifts aren't even stronger than me..
It's like the "instant satisfaction" world we live in has moved into BBing.. Just like you can get lipo or a face lift.. guys are now pimping PH's down their throat to make a instant transformation of adding muscle.. They aren't putting time into building a solid base, they are using PH's to build a base..
That's a cop-out in my book.. I don't have alot of respect for using PH's to go from being a "stick" to having some muscle..

I have always been a power guy in my training.. I'm at 175lbs tops at 5'9"..
I could be easy 20lbs LBM heavier over the years if I'd have choosen to eat big and train BBing style.. I have the respect from some damm big dudes at my gym who juice.. they respect me bcuz they see me busting my ass.. they know I'm a power guy and not a BB guy.. they know I have spent years building up the base of strength I have..
Now at 37 I'm gonna be doing my first cycle soon.. Why? I want to see how strong I can get on a cycle of Tren Xtreme..

 

[DLM5]

I'm going to come out and say **** the numbers. A picture will usually show if someone is ready or not.

Ya, what he said.

 

[texastweeter]

I think first and foremost the person needs to understand what they are geting themselves into. I mean truely understand. They need to know what they are doing so that they can make informed decisions on what compounds to use and how. If their wife wiggs out on them they need to know that they cant "just stop useing". I think that if you understand what you are doing, then you should be able to spot holes in your training/diet/recovery that need to be filled before you turn to AAS.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I'm going to come out and say **** the numbers. A picture will usually show if someone is ready or not.

Good point.. I notice quite a few steroid/ph/ps logs, with No pics...

What blows my mind is... seeing guys who have run a few cycles and they are not any bigger than me, and their max lifts aren't even stronger than me..
It's like the "instant satisfaction" world we live in has moved into BBing.. Just like you can get lipo or a face lift.. guys are now pimping PH's down their throat to make a instant transformation of adding muscle.. They aren't putting time into building a solid base, they are using PH's to build a base..
That's a cop-out in my book.. I don't have alot of respect for using PH's to go from being a "stick" to having some muscle..

I have always been a power guy in my training.. I'm at 175lbs tops at 5'9"..
I could be easy 20lbs LBM heavier over the years if I'd have choosen to eat big and train BBing style.. I have the respect from some damm big dudes at my gym who juice.. they respect me bcuz they see me busting my ass.. they know I'm a power guy and not a BB guy.. they know I have spent years building up the base of strength I have..
Now at 37 I'm gonna be doing my first cycle soon.. Why? I want to see how strong I can get on a cycle of Tren Xtreme..

Thanks for your opinion. And i agree with allot of what you say.

I think first and foremost the person needs to understand what they are geting themselves into. I mean truely understand. They need to know what they are doing so that they can make informed decisions on what compounds to use and how. If their wife wiggs out on them they need to know that they cant "just stop useing". I think that if you understand what you are doing, then you should be able to spot holes in your training/diet/recovery that need to be filled before you turn to AAS.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Lacradocious]

Experience. It is STUPID to do steroids if you are still learning what works for you as far as lifting and diet. I think you should be natural until you reach you plateau.

A lot of people don't even have a proper routine and skimp out on legs but lift chest and arms twice a week. But people will do whatever they want to do, and many of the logs on here show that, pics or no pics.

It absolutely amazes me that you still get guys drinking on cycle, or asking for advice on AAS when they obviously don't even have basic lifting or nutrition down.

It's weird though, seeing new people on here who have amazing results with steroids, but then there are "experienced" guys on here who have done multiple cycles and you can't tell either way.

I honestly think most people put too much stock into supplements and these oral steroids early on, and never really get their training and diet dialed in.